native sbs backup program

what are the main issues with staying with the native NT backup program on
SBS2k?
I'm trying to convince a client to get veritas backup exec but has
resistance to it because of cost. The perception being that if there is one
there already then why get another.

Javier
Mon Jul 21 21:58:16 CDT 2003

The only issue I don't like about NTBackup is that you cannot perform a
brick level restore of an exchange mailbox (only the entire store can be
restored). This is a minor inconvenience because you can increase the
deleted items retention time... and don't worry about it.

AFAIK, SQL can be backed up using NTBackup... but you need to perform the
routine in SQL and then backup the file generated (or something like that).

My $0.02

-JG

"John Oliver, Jr. (MVP)" <jcoliverjr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OIj97Z$TDHA.1912@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Veritas can provide better admin functions, database (SQL and Exchange)
> features, open file support, and great tech support to name a few reasons.
> NT backup can perform backup of your operating system and exchange data
but
> beyond that, you will need Veritas.
>
> --
> John Oliver, Jr.
> MCSE, MCT, CCNA, Exchange MVP
>
> "billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in message
> news:eIb7Ko#TDHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > what are the main issues with staying with the native NT backup program
on
> > SBS2k?
> > I'm trying to convince a client to get veritas backup exec but has
> > resistance to it because of cost. The perception being that if there is
> one
> > there already then why get another.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

John
Mon Jul 21 22:37:47 CDT 2003

Brick level backup in my experience is prone to errors. Sometimes it works,
Sometimes it does not. But when it works it is a nice feature.

You are correct with SQL and NT Backup.

There is no critical compelling reason to purchase Veritas other than it
does have some great Admin features, open file capability and Single mailbox
restore as you have stated. For the money, SBS 2000 for Veritas is really a
great product. Do search on pricewatch.com, I found it for $456 with free
shipping.

--
John Oliver, Jr.
MCSE, MCT, CCNA, Exchange MVP
"Javier Gomez" <javier_gomez@remove-this-bit.engineer.com> wrote in message
news:ucZXa0$TDHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> The only issue I don't like about NTBackup is that you cannot perform a
> brick level restore of an exchange mailbox (only the entire store can be
> restored). This is a minor inconvenience because you can increase the
> deleted items retention time... and don't worry about it.
>
> AFAIK, SQL can be backed up using NTBackup... but you need to perform the
> routine in SQL and then backup the file generated (or something like
that).
>
> My $0.02
>
> -JG
>
> "John Oliver, Jr. (MVP)" <jcoliverjr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OIj97Z$TDHA.1912@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Veritas can provide better admin functions, database (SQL and Exchange)
> > features, open file support, and great tech support to name a few
reasons.
> > NT backup can perform backup of your operating system and exchange data
> but
> > beyond that, you will need Veritas.
> >
> > --
> > John Oliver, Jr.
> > MCSE, MCT, CCNA, Exchange MVP
> >
> > "billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in message
> > news:eIb7Ko#TDHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > what are the main issues with staying with the native NT backup
program
> on
> > > SBS2k?
> > > I'm trying to convince a client to get veritas backup exec but has
> > > resistance to it because of cost. The perception being that if there
is
> > one
> > > there already then why get another.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Dave
Tue Jul 22 08:00:07 CDT 2003

I have to agree with your client - Don't spend money that you don't need to.
The "Ed Crowley Never Restore Method" has totally avoided any need for brick
level restores at all my sites and the On-Line backup (with NTBackup) works
smoothly for the whole Info store. It takes about an hour following the good
examples online to setup a good scheduled backup.
"Karakas, Gyula [Vamsoft]" <gyula.karakas@vamsoft-remove-this.com> wrote in
message news:#eVSJRBUDHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> for more info on brick level backups, see this:
> http://www.exchangefaq.org/recovery/0004.php3
>
> And, of course, the "Ed Crowley Never-Restore Method":
> http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq_appxb.htm
>
> I do not think there is any function in SBS that justifies backup software
> purchase.
>
> Gyula Karakas
> orf support
> www.vamsoft.com/orf
>
> "Javier Gomez" <javier_gomez@remove-this-bit.engineer.com> wrote
> > The only issue I don't like about NTBackup is that you cannot perform a
> > brick level restore of an exchange mailbox (only the entire store can be
> > restored). This is a minor inconvenience because you can increase the
> > deleted items retention time... and don't worry about it.
> >
> > AFAIK, SQL can be backed up using NTBackup... but you need to perform
the
> > routine in SQL and then backup the file generated (or something like
> that).
>
>

billyw
Tue Jul 22 11:37:24 CDT 2003

so you would recommend something like ghost 2003 in conjunction with
NTbackup?

I've used Veritas in 2 previous installs and haven't used any other backup
s/ware in an sbs environment.

"Chad A Gross" <chad.gross@laytonflower.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Oq3fDHGUDHA.2128@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Call me crazy, but if you're going to spend the extra money, I would
rather
> have a client acquire an imaging product and use it in conjunction with
> NTBackup versus just buying a different backup software . . .
>
> --
> Chad A Gross
>
> Lerman's Law of Technology: Any technical problem can be overcome
> given enough time and money. Corollary: You are never given enough
> time or money.
>
>
>
> Dave Phillips wrote:
> > I have to agree with your client - Don't spend money that you don't
> > need to. The "Ed Crowley Never Restore Method" has totally avoided
> > any need for brick level restores at all my sites and the On-Line
> > backup (with NTBackup) works smoothly for the whole Info store. It
> > takes about an hour following the good examples online to setup a
> > good scheduled backup. "Karakas, Gyula [Vamsoft]"
> > <gyula.karakas@vamsoft-remove-this.com> wrote in message
> > news:#eVSJRBUDHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> >> for more info on brick level backups, see this:
> >> http://www.exchangefaq.org/recovery/0004.php3
> >>
> >> And, of course, the "Ed Crowley Never-Restore Method":
> >> http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq_appxb.htm
> >>
> >> I do not think there is any function in SBS that justifies backup
> >> software purchase.
> >>
> >> Gyula Karakas
> >> orf support
> >> www.vamsoft.com/orf
> >>
> >> "Javier Gomez" <javier_gomez@remove-this-bit.engineer.com> wrote
> >>> The only issue I don't like about NTBackup is that you cannot
> >>> perform a brick level restore of an exchange mailbox (only the
> >>> entire store can be restored). This is a minor inconvenience
> >>> because you can increase the deleted items retention time... and
> >>> don't worry about it.
> >>>
> >>> AFAIK, SQL can be backed up using NTBackup... but you need to
> >>> perform the routine in SQL and then backup the file generated (or
> >>> something like that).
>
>

Chad
Tue Jul 22 11:44:08 CDT 2003

In news:ODDyF%23GUDHA.2512@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl,
billyw <b@brainless.net> posted:
> so you would recommend something like ghost 2003 in conjunction with
> NTbackup?
>
> I've used Veritas in 2 previous installs and haven't used any other
> backup s/ware in an sbs environment.
>

I'm just starting to play with V2i . . . Since we're talking about an SBS, I
would recommend an imaging product that can do online images (like V2i)
instead of offline images (like Ghost)

--

Chad A. Gross

Lerman's Law of Technology: Any technical problem can be overcome
given enough time and money. Corollary: You are never given enough
time or money.

Javier
Tue Jul 22 13:19:48 CDT 2003

To add more to Chad's point... From my point of view: With an image product
you can overcome the limitations of a bare-metal restore that are present in
any backup software (NT or Veritas).

See this:
http://www.smallbizserver.net/SBS2000/Disaster_Recovery.aspx

I haven't played with V2i... but I plan to do so very soon.

-Javier


"Chad A Gross" <chad.gross@laytonflower.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:OPpG6BHUDHA.2196@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> In news:ODDyF%23GUDHA.2512@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl,
> billyw <b@brainless.net> posted:
> > so you would recommend something like ghost 2003 in conjunction with
> > NTbackup?
> >
> > I've used Veritas in 2 previous installs and haven't used any other
> > backup s/ware in an sbs environment.
> >
>
> I'm just starting to play with V2i . . . Since we're talking about an SBS,
I
> would recommend an imaging product that can do online images (like V2i)
> instead of offline images (like Ghost)
>
> --
>
> Chad A. Gross
>
> Lerman's Law of Technology: Any technical problem can be overcome
> given enough time and money. Corollary: You are never given enough
> time or money.
>
>

billyw
Tue Jul 22 15:41:58 CDT 2003

thanks, i wasn't aware of this product. Have been using ghost for years and
wasn't aware of V2i. Certainly looks worth having a play with..

cheers


"Javier Gomez" <javier_gomez@REMOVE.THIS.engineer.com> wrote in message
news:uyAYT3HUDHA.304@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> To add more to Chad's point... From my point of view: With an image
product
> you can overcome the limitations of a bare-metal restore that are present
in
> any backup software (NT or Veritas).
>
> See this:
> http://www.smallbizserver.net/SBS2000/Disaster_Recovery.aspx
>
> I haven't played with V2i... but I plan to do so very soon.
>
> -Javier
>
>
> "Chad A Gross" <chad.gross@laytonflower.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:OPpG6BHUDHA.2196@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > In news:ODDyF%23GUDHA.2512@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl,
> > billyw <b@brainless.net> posted:
> > > so you would recommend something like ghost 2003 in conjunction with
> > > NTbackup?
> > >
> > > I've used Veritas in 2 previous installs and haven't used any other
> > > backup s/ware in an sbs environment.
> > >
> >
> > I'm just starting to play with V2i . . . Since we're talking about an
SBS,
> I
> > would recommend an imaging product that can do online images (like V2i)
> > instead of offline images (like Ghost)
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chad A. Gross
> >
> > Lerman's Law of Technology: Any technical problem can be overcome
> > given enough time and money. Corollary: You are never given enough
> > time or money.
> >
> >
>
>