<< I have a question?>>

A fellow MVP who runs usergroups said that his community just doesn't
find value in newsgroups. That you have to filter out a lot of
gunk,etc. Just got me to thinking about the time a couple of years back
that Jeff Middleton asked "How can we do better?" in the Newsgroups. We
haven't done that in a long time...

So.... without further ado....I'm asking

"How can we [all] do better?"

Suggestions? Recommendations? Things that can be done better?
Recommendations to take back to Microsoft?

Remember, that it's my belief that all of us out here that have the BTDT
credentials are higher than any other credential holder, MVP tag line,
you name it.

[BTDT = been there, done that]


--
http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm

Jonathan
Mon Jul 12 01:28:05 CDT 2004

I don't think he meant the SBS groups, and if he did then he has never read
them

The SBS groups are some of the best groups here, you guys (err---we) have a
nice community here, and best of all, return visitors willing to help! Some
groups aren't so fortunate, and I think -those- were the ones he may have
been talking about

--
--Jonathan Maltz [Microsoft MVP - Windows Server - IIS, Virtual PC]
http://www.visualwin.com - A Windows Server 2003 visual, step-by-step
tutorial site :-)
http://vpc.visualwin.com - Does <insert OS name> work on VPC 2004? Find out
here
Only reply by newsgroup. I do not do technical support via email. Any
emails I have not authorized are deleted before I see them.


"Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
wrote in message news:%23FFWKi9ZEHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> A fellow MVP who runs usergroups said that his community just doesn't
> find value in newsgroups. That you have to filter out a lot of
> gunk,etc. Just got me to thinking about the time a couple of years back
> that Jeff Middleton asked "How can we do better?" in the Newsgroups. We
> haven't done that in a long time...
>
> So.... without further ado....I'm asking
>
> "How can we [all] do better?"
>
> Suggestions? Recommendations? Things that can be done better?
> Recommendations to take back to Microsoft?
>
> Remember, that it's my belief that all of us out here that have the BTDT
> credentials are higher than any other credential holder, MVP tag line,
> you name it.
>
> [BTDT = been there, done that]
>
>
> --
> http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm

Susan
Mon Jul 12 01:45:02 CDT 2004

Yeah I know, but it got me thinking nonetheless.

One can always do better. [and it is WE because it's everyone out here
that makes this group what it is]

Like David Barnes feedback on the recommended steps to set up a SBS 2003
server.. that sucker needs to be on a web site
news://msnews.microsoft.com/uGErID9ZEHA.1000@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl

Jonathan Maltz [MS-MVP] wrote:
> I don't think he meant the SBS groups, and if he did then he has never read
> them
>
> The SBS groups are some of the best groups here, you guys (err---we) have a
> nice community here, and best of all, return visitors willing to help! Some
> groups aren't so fortunate, and I think -those- were the ones he may have
> been talking about
>

--
http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm

Gary
Mon Jul 12 02:00:04 CDT 2004

Well, since you asked:

First, I agree with Jonahan Maltz that the reference could not have been to
the SBS newsgroups (I know Jonathan was referring to MS NGs generally).
These are genuinely helpful and incredibly responsive. It amazes me that
there's never any flaming or disrespect.

That said, my big gripe is the tendency of some of the MVPs (not mentioning
any names) to respond to questions with something like, "Don't do that."

While advice on why someone might want to rethink a course of action is
helpful, that advice should come with the answer to the question.

GaryK
.
"Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
wrote in message news:%23FFWKi9ZEHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> A fellow MVP who runs usergroups said that his community just doesn't
> find value in newsgroups. That you have to filter out a lot of
> gunk,etc. Just got me to thinking about the time a couple of years back
> that Jeff Middleton asked "How can we do better?" in the Newsgroups. We
> haven't done that in a long time...
>
> So.... without further ado....I'm asking
>
> "How can we [all] do better?"
>
> Suggestions? Recommendations? Things that can be done better?
> Recommendations to take back to Microsoft?
>
> Remember, that it's my belief that all of us out here that have the BTDT
> credentials are higher than any other credential holder, MVP tag line,
> you name it.
>
> [BTDT = been there, done that]
>
>
> --
> http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm

Susan
Mon Jul 12 02:13:52 CDT 2004

<blushing> Guilty. Was charged with that the last time and obviously
forgot in the meantime. Tends to increase during certain times of the
month as well ;-) SuperG reminds me of that to that we need to remember
that there are many ways to do things in SBS land.

Gary Karasik wrote:

> Well, since you asked:
>
> First, I agree with Jonahan Maltz that the reference could not have been to
> the SBS newsgroups (I know Jonathan was referring to MS NGs generally).
> These are genuinely helpful and incredibly responsive. It amazes me that
> there's never any flaming or disrespect.
>
> That said, my big gripe is the tendency of some of the MVPs (not mentioning
> any names) to respond to questions with something like, "Don't do that."
>
> While advice on why someone might want to rethink a course of action is
> helpful, that advice should come with the answer to the question.
>
> GaryK
> .
> "Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
> wrote in message news:%23FFWKi9ZEHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
>>A fellow MVP who runs usergroups said that his community just doesn't
>>find value in newsgroups. That you have to filter out a lot of
>>gunk,etc. Just got me to thinking about the time a couple of years back
>>that Jeff Middleton asked "How can we do better?" in the Newsgroups. We
>>haven't done that in a long time...
>>
>>So.... without further ado....I'm asking
>>
>>"How can we [all] do better?"
>>
>>Suggestions? Recommendations? Things that can be done better?
>>Recommendations to take back to Microsoft?
>>
>>Remember, that it's my belief that all of us out here that have the BTDT
>>credentials are higher than any other credential holder, MVP tag line,
>>you name it.
>>
>>[BTDT = been there, done that]
>>
>>
>>--
>>http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm
>
>
>

--
http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm

ross
Mon Jul 12 04:20:47 CDT 2004

the NS is great but i think a move to a forum would be better.
"Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
wrote in message news:%23FFWKi9ZEHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> A fellow MVP who runs usergroups said that his community just doesn't
> find value in newsgroups. That you have to filter out a lot of
> gunk,etc. Just got me to thinking about the time a couple of years back
> that Jeff Middleton asked "How can we do better?" in the Newsgroups. We
> haven't done that in a long time...
>
> So.... without further ado....I'm asking
>
> "How can we [all] do better?"
>
> Suggestions? Recommendations? Things that can be done better?
> Recommendations to take back to Microsoft?
>
> Remember, that it's my belief that all of us out here that have the BTDT
> credentials are higher than any other credential holder, MVP tag line,
> you name it.
>
> [BTDT = been there, done that]
>
>
> --
> http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm

Phil
Mon Jul 12 06:58:51 CDT 2004

*** With Tongue Way Into Cheek :<) ****

Whereas some of the SBS NG gets soo-o many questions,
and
Whereas the original sbs NG
microsoft.public.smallbiz.sbsip is under utilized,
and
Whereas there are some topics that by their nature elicit
extended discussions of non-gentleperson discourse
(flame wars) based solely on said topics,
Therefore
Be it resolved by general petition, agreement, and resolution
that all discussion, forum, rebuttals, and non-gentleperson
discourse on the following topics be banned from general
SBS newsgroups and relegated, limited to, and in general
confined to microsoft.public.smallbiz.sbsip newsgroup:
RAID configuration
SCSI
SATA
PATA
IDE
Platform Preference (Dell, IBM, HP, Homebuilt,etc)
Venting Non-gentleperson frustration against:
squalid sordid spammers
horrid hateful hackers
vile virus villains

And further more be it resolved by petition and agreement
that should a sub-thread to an original topic develop that becomes
a knowledgeable persons have extended discourse
not germane to original posted thread, An SBS MVP may
announce SUB-THREAD MOVED TO SBSIP.

Phil S.

P.S. See, this is what happens when one opens a box untouched
in last three moves and finds a borrowed copy of 'Roberts Rules
of Order'. Now if can remember why I borrowed the book.....

Henry
Mon Jul 12 07:29:25 CDT 2004

Well, I have to agree and disagree.

The SBS Newsgroups are definitely in the absolute top echelon of Usenet,
and while the clean-up rate isn't as high as I'd like to see it, it is
amazing given that everyone, MS persons included, put so much time into
assisting each other. - I would like to see a -lot- more MS involvement
here given that they publicise this as a prime help resource, guarantee
a response to registered users, and are ( under my understanding )
asked to involve themselves as a means of keeping in touch with real
world issues.

What -I'd- really like to see is some of the posters, who by the very
level of their IT involvement would not be ignorant of, at least attempt
to utilise the rich resources available to them, Google, Google Groups,
Microsoft TechNet and MSDN Searches, Event ID and the Websites, blogs
and WEB in general -before- they post here. It's rare that a problem is
new, and has not been resolved. - and how few post back with the
resolution that worked in their unique environment but might help others
in the future. I'd really like to see them be a bit more intelligent and
thoughtful about their posts instead of just posting "Help - Exchange
doesn't work.".....but that's an age old helpdesk issue.....

I'd really like the Ng to have time to discuss features, wishlists and
group solutions to common problems and issues of implementation,
management and performance, rather than just doing Break-Fix.

Now, as everyone here is so of their own volition and of their own free
time and only the MS employees are bound by rules of what they can or
can't say, there is, I believe, no reason why anyone else, including
MVPs, can't say what they want, -or not- as they choose.

While I know how to circumvent/violate MS licensing, when asked by
clients, potential clients or people on the newsgroup I choose -not- to
respond, but rather say "Don't do that" you open yourself to serious
litigation and liability. Similarly for information that exposes them to
losses due to malware, intrusion, data corruption or loss.

Nothing says I or any other MVP or poster, -has- to respond at all, nor
respond with information that may potentially lead the OP or the
client/company they represent to harm as opposed to warning against such
action. I don't warn children against playing with loaded guns, and then
hand them one and look the other way.

Whilst I would mostly say "Do not run Outlook on the Server", I have on
occasions told people how to do so. It's a judgement call. Yes you can
run a public e'Commerce website on an SBServer. I still say "Don't do
that!". Again, a judgement call. MVPs are not-obliged- to say anything
one way or the other. We often differ and disagree, amongst ourselves,
and with Microsoft, as with the "need to know". If an MVP say's "don't
do that" take it as the word of experience, and of concern. - There's
usually plenty of others who'll tell you "how to do that" without
concern for the consequences, or interpret the situation differently and
believe there is sufficient maturity to balance the information against
the risk.

--
Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}
Melbourne Australia

"Gary Karasik" <gkarasik2fea.net> wrote in message
news:eCdfe39ZEHA.3404@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Well, since you asked:
>
> First, I agree with Jonahan Maltz that the reference could not have
been to
> the SBS newsgroups (I know Jonathan was referring to MS NGs
generally).
> These are genuinely helpful and incredibly responsive. It amazes me
that
> there's never any flaming or disrespect.
>
> That said, my big gripe is the tendency of some of the MVPs (not
mentioning
> any names) to respond to questions with something like, "Don't do
that."
>
> While advice on why someone might want to rethink a course of action
is
> helpful, that advice should come with the answer to the question.
>
> GaryK

Henry
Mon Jul 12 07:32:46 CDT 2004

Isn't it a Usenet given that if a thread is more than 4 layers deep it
has already degenerated into the petty and irrelevant ...at which time
someone has to say "Hitler" and kill the thread ?

--
Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}
Melbourne Australia

"Phil S." <nospam-m-phil-NoSpam@one two three m-a-p-s.net> wrote in
message news:OiGiaeAaEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> *** With Tongue Way Into Cheek :<) ****
>
> Whereas some of the SBS NG gets soo-o many questions,
> and
> Whereas the original sbs NG
> microsoft.public.smallbiz.sbsip is under utilized,
> and
> Whereas there are some topics that by their nature elicit
> extended discussions of non-gentleperson discourse
> (flame wars) based solely on said topics,
> Therefore
> Be it resolved by general petition, agreement, and resolution
> that all discussion, forum, rebuttals, and non-gentleperson
> discourse on the following topics be banned from general
> SBS newsgroups and relegated, limited to, and in general
> confined to microsoft.public.smallbiz.sbsip newsgroup:
> RAID configuration
> SCSI
> SATA
> PATA
> IDE
> Platform Preference (Dell, IBM, HP, Homebuilt,etc)
> Venting Non-gentleperson frustration against:
> squalid sordid spammers
> horrid hateful hackers
> vile virus villains
>
> And further more be it resolved by petition and agreement
> that should a sub-thread to an original topic develop that becomes
> a knowledgeable persons have extended discourse
> not germane to original posted thread, An SBS MVP may
> announce SUB-THREAD MOVED TO SBSIP.
>
> Phil S.
>
> P.S. See, this is what happens when one opens a box untouched
> in last three moves and finds a borrowed copy of 'Roberts Rules
> of Order'. Now if can remember why I borrowed the book.....

Kevin
Mon Jul 12 08:10:33 CDT 2004

Obviously, Susan, your asking "how can we do it better" is mostly directed
at those of us who respond, since I'm not sure we can control who or how
questions are posted.

Personally, I would like to see some more new SBS specific newsgroups - for
example, SBS-ISA/DNS, SBS-Exchange, SBS-Sharepoint, etc. I sure know that
when it comes to an ISA or DNS question, I'm not going to be able to
contribute much.

--
Kevin Weilbacher [SBS-MVP]
"The days pass by so quickly now, the nights are seldom long"


"Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
wrote in message news:%23FFWKi9ZEHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> A fellow MVP who runs usergroups said that his community just doesn't
> find value in newsgroups. That you have to filter out a lot of
> gunk,etc. Just got me to thinking about the time a couple of years back
> that Jeff Middleton asked "How can we do better?" in the Newsgroups. We
> haven't done that in a long time...
>
> So.... without further ado....I'm asking
>
> "How can we [all] do better?"
>
> Suggestions? Recommendations? Things that can be done better?
> Recommendations to take back to Microsoft?
>
> Remember, that it's my belief that all of us out here that have the BTDT
> credentials are higher than any other credential holder, MVP tag line,
> you name it.
>
> [BTDT = been there, done that]
>
>
> --
> http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm

Henry
Mon Jul 12 09:03:59 CDT 2004

Problem I see with that is that, as with the 3 existing SBS groups new
users won't especially post to the specific group. Users might not know
to look for it, be able to find it, or their ISP may not subscribe to
it.

Just extra newsgroups to add to the list to be covered IMHO, and worst
case scenario is it will just contribute to more multi-posting.

--
Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}
Melbourne Australia

"Kevin Weilbacher [SBS-MVP]" <kweilbacMVP@gte.net> wrote in message
news:ee1E6FBaEHA.3112@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Obviously, Susan, your asking "how can we do it better" is mostly
directed
> at those of us who respond, since I'm not sure we can control who or
how
> questions are posted.
>
> Personally, I would like to see some more new SBS specific
newsgroups - for
> example, SBS-ISA/DNS, SBS-Exchange, SBS-Sharepoint, etc. I sure know
that
> when it comes to an ISA or DNS question, I'm not going to be able to
> contribute much.
>
> --
> Kevin Weilbacher [SBS-MVP]
> "The days pass by so quickly now, the nights are seldom long"

Gary
Mon Jul 12 09:08:46 CDT 2004

We agree that no one in an MS-sponsored NG should be expected to tell
posters how to circumvent MSs licensing, and certainly posters should try to
research solutions themselves before posting here (and BTW, as a tribute to
these SBS groups--not all MSNG's are as responsive), and certainly posters
should post solutions they've found, and certainly a warning is justifiable
(and appreciated!) if a particular tweak might cause harm that the poster
hasn't considered. But except in very limited circumstances that warning
should be accompanied by an answer to the poster's question. Otherwise the
MVPs risk being condescending. We all appreciate being treated as
responsible adults who can, given the facts, make intelligent choices.

As you say, there's judgment involved, but frankly I'm not seeing the
analogy between telling someone how to load Outlook on a server and "handing
a child a loaded gun." In this particular case, even MS doesn't say, "don't
do that"; they say, "We recommend against that."

Often posters (I know I've done this) ask goofy, poorly thought out, or
poorly articulated questions. But mostly people come here as a last resort
because the google or MSKB response they've found and tried to implement is
inadequate in some way--not on point, not applicable in a particular
situation, just-plain wrong, and/or simply incomprehensible.

GaryK

"Henry Craven" <IUnknown@Dot.Nyet> wrote in message
news:%23k$F2yAaEHA.2388@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Well, I have to agree and disagree.
>
> The SBS Newsgroups are definitely in the absolute top echelon of Usenet,
> and while the clean-up rate isn't as high as I'd like to see it, it is
> amazing given that everyone, MS persons included, put so much time into
> assisting each other. - I would like to see a -lot- more MS involvement
> here given that they publicise this as a prime help resource, guarantee
> a response to registered users, and are ( under my understanding )
> asked to involve themselves as a means of keeping in touch with real
> world issues.
>
> What -I'd- really like to see is some of the posters, who by the very
> level of their IT involvement would not be ignorant of, at least attempt
> to utilise the rich resources available to them, Google, Google Groups,
> Microsoft TechNet and MSDN Searches, Event ID and the Websites, blogs
> and WEB in general -before- they post here. It's rare that a problem is
> new, and has not been resolved. - and how few post back with the
> resolution that worked in their unique environment but might help others
> in the future. I'd really like to see them be a bit more intelligent and
> thoughtful about their posts instead of just posting "Help - Exchange
> doesn't work.".....but that's an age old helpdesk issue.....
>
> I'd really like the Ng to have time to discuss features, wishlists and
> group solutions to common problems and issues of implementation,
> management and performance, rather than just doing Break-Fix.
>
> Now, as everyone here is so of their own volition and of their own free
> time and only the MS employees are bound by rules of what they can or
> can't say, there is, I believe, no reason why anyone else, including
> MVPs, can't say what they want, -or not- as they choose.
>
> While I know how to circumvent/violate MS licensing, when asked by
> clients, potential clients or people on the newsgroup I choose -not- to
> respond, but rather say "Don't do that" you open yourself to serious
> litigation and liability. Similarly for information that exposes them to
> losses due to malware, intrusion, data corruption or loss.
>
> Nothing says I or any other MVP or poster, -has- to respond at all, nor
> respond with information that may potentially lead the OP or the
> client/company they represent to harm as opposed to warning against such
> action. I don't warn children against playing with loaded guns, and then
> hand them one and look the other way.
>
> Whilst I would mostly say "Do not run Outlook on the Server", I have on
> occasions told people how to do so. It's a judgement call. Yes you can
> run a public e'Commerce website on an SBServer. I still say "Don't do
> that!". Again, a judgement call. MVPs are not-obliged- to say anything
> one way or the other. We often differ and disagree, amongst ourselves,
> and with Microsoft, as with the "need to know". If an MVP say's "don't
> do that" take it as the word of experience, and of concern. - There's
> usually plenty of others who'll tell you "how to do that" without
> concern for the consequences, or interpret the situation differently and
> believe there is sufficient maturity to balance the information against
> the risk.
>
> --
> Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}
> Melbourne Australia
>
> "Gary Karasik" <gkarasik2fea.net> wrote in message
> news:eCdfe39ZEHA.3404@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Well, since you asked:
> >
> > First, I agree with Jonahan Maltz that the reference could not have
> been to
> > the SBS newsgroups (I know Jonathan was referring to MS NGs
> generally).
> > These are genuinely helpful and incredibly responsive. It amazes me
> that
> > there's never any flaming or disrespect.
> >
> > That said, my big gripe is the tendency of some of the MVPs (not
> mentioning
> > any names) to respond to questions with something like, "Don't do
> that."
> >
> > While advice on why someone might want to rethink a course of action
> is
> > helpful, that advice should come with the answer to the question.
> >
> > GaryK
>
>

Dave
Mon Jul 12 10:02:09 CDT 2004

If we could control how questions are posted, I'd make two suggestions: Use
a descriptive subject line. It saves people having to read your whole post
to find out if they can offer meaningful assistance.

And, if someone suggests a solution that may or may not work, post back and
let the responder know your results. I'd rather have you tell me my stupid
idea failed, than diplomatically leaving me to think it worked and suggest
it to everyone else who asks the same question :-)




"Kevin Weilbacher [SBS-MVP]" <kweilbacMVP@gte.net> wrote in message
news:ee1E6FBaEHA.3112@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Obviously, Susan, your asking "how can we do it better" is mostly directed
> at those of us who respond, since I'm not sure we can control who or how
> questions are posted.
>
> Personally, I would like to see some more new SBS specific newsgroups -
> for
> example, SBS-ISA/DNS, SBS-Exchange, SBS-Sharepoint, etc. I sure know that
> when it comes to an ISA or DNS question, I'm not going to be able to
> contribute much.
>
> --
> Kevin Weilbacher [SBS-MVP]
> "The days pass by so quickly now, the nights are seldom long"
>
>
> "Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
> wrote in message news:%23FFWKi9ZEHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> A fellow MVP who runs usergroups said that his community just doesn't
>> find value in newsgroups. That you have to filter out a lot of
>> gunk,etc. Just got me to thinking about the time a couple of years back
>> that Jeff Middleton asked "How can we do better?" in the Newsgroups. We
>> haven't done that in a long time...
>>
>> So.... without further ado....I'm asking
>>
>> "How can we [all] do better?"
>>
>> Suggestions? Recommendations? Things that can be done better?
>> Recommendations to take back to Microsoft?
>>
>> Remember, that it's my belief that all of us out here that have the BTDT
>> credentials are higher than any other credential holder, MVP tag line,
>> you name it.
>>
>> [BTDT = been there, done that]
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm
>
>

Phil
Mon Jul 12 10:20:25 CDT 2004

In article <#hUcAnBaEHA.3132@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>, Gary Karasik
<gkarasik2fea.net@?.?> writes
>We agree that no one in an MS-sponsored NG should be expected to tell
>posters how to circumvent MSs licensing, and certainly posters should try to
>research solutions themselves before posting here (and BTW, as a tribute to
>these SBS groups--not all MSNG's are as responsive), and certainly posters
>should post solutions they've found, and certainly a warning is justifiable
>(and appreciated!) if a particular tweak might cause harm that the poster
>hasn't considered. But except in very limited circumstances that warning
>should be accompanied by an answer to the poster's question. Otherwise the
>MVPs risk being condescending. We all appreciate being treated as
>responsible adults who can, given the facts, make intelligent choices.

What? Not even when the MS fix is 'turn off licensing'? ;-)
>
>As you say, there's judgment involved, but frankly I'm not seeing the
>analogy between telling someone how to load Outlook on a server and "handing
>a child a loaded gun." In this particular case, even MS doesn't say, "don't
>do that"; they say, "We recommend against that."

<ENORMOUSLY BIG SNIP>

As one of the 'idiots' who asks the questions, a few comments;

I *know* there are NG's for SBS2k etc. as well as this one.. Laziness
and the thought of having to trawl yet another NG keeps me here!
You guys (and gals) are brilliant, and I thank-you on behalf of all who
post Q's here.
I have had a 'rant' in the past, and I think one post was met with
'silence' when I asked something a little too close to the edge of
legality. - That's fine, the silence spoke volumes.

Regarding the common, frequently asked Q's.. How about a FAQ post?
This could have links to smallbizserver.net etc. and could contain the
common Q's and recommended ways of doing things. Links to useful sites
and tools... You get the drift.

Personally, I have about 20 threads permanently saved in my newsreader,
everything from the loginscript document via exchange to VPN's.

I am also grateful for the times you all respond when things are OT, my
TS problems earlier this year come to mind on this one.

The beauty of the NG's is they are open and free-form, newsreaders can
be set to delete messages after a certain time, so it is easy to just
let the newsreader deal with it.. Blogs and forums tend to get bloated
quite quickly, unless someone is moderating them. - A thankless task
which can become all consuming, so tends to fail once the initial
enthusiasm wears off. Also, my ancient W95 P120 can keep up with plain
text NG's, and is less prone to 'nasties' than these new-fangled W2k and
XP beasts! Mind you, I could do with a HDD bigger than 2GB!

Anyway, I going OT here, SO.... I say keep the NG's, add a FAQ, keep up
the good work on the web-sites, and God bless you all!

TTFN,
Phil Partridge
philp@pebbleGRIT.demon.co.uk
Remove the grit to reply

Henry
Mon Jul 12 10:23:22 CDT 2004

As I don't know -which- "don't do that(s)" your referring to it's
difficult to speak to them specifically.
Certainly some, such as security risks to data in a clinic or hospital
for example, can be potentially very dangerous.

I'm sorry you think a warning alone is condescending. I don't.
I also believe that no-one is obliged to post anything they don't wish
to, for whatever reason.

You're free of course to post a "how to" to any such threads as you feel
are lacking whenever you like.

--
Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}
Melbourne Australia

"Gary Karasik" <gkarasik2fea.net> wrote in message
news:#hUcAnBaEHA.3132@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> We agree that no one in an MS-sponsored NG should be expected to tell
> posters how to circumvent MSs licensing, and certainly posters should
try to
> research solutions themselves before posting here (and BTW, as a
tribute to
> these SBS groups--not all MSNG's are as responsive), and certainly
posters
> should post solutions they've found, and certainly a warning is
justifiable
> (and appreciated!) if a particular tweak might cause harm that the
poster
> hasn't considered. But except in very limited circumstances that
warning
> should be accompanied by an answer to the poster's question. Otherwise
the
> MVPs risk being condescending. We all appreciate being treated as
> responsible adults who can, given the facts, make intelligent choices.
>
> As you say, there's judgment involved, but frankly I'm not seeing the
> analogy between telling someone how to load Outlook on a server and
"handing
> a child a loaded gun." In this particular case, even MS doesn't say,
"don't
> do that"; they say, "We recommend against that."
>
> Often posters (I know I've done this) ask goofy, poorly thought out,
or
> poorly articulated questions. But mostly people come here as a last
resort
> because the google or MSKB response they've found and tried to
implement is
> inadequate in some way--not on point, not applicable in a particular
> situation, just-plain wrong, and/or simply incomprehensible.
>
> GaryK

Chris
Mon Jul 12 10:32:17 CDT 2004

It would be helpful if the backoffice.smallbiz ng had 2003 in the title and
posts to this one were 2000 specific!
(except, of course where there is an overlap!)
Nevertheless a stunning resource which not only provides unrivalled support
but often does so in an 'uplifitng' way which restores faith in the human
race!

Chris Curtis

"Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" <gwdibble@NOSPAM.frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:eocC2ECaEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> If we could control how questions are posted, I'd make two suggestions:
Use
> a descriptive subject line. It saves people having to read your whole
post
> to find out if they can offer meaningful assistance.
>
> And, if someone suggests a solution that may or may not work, post back
and
> let the responder know your results. I'd rather have you tell me my
stupid
> idea failed, than diplomatically leaving me to think it worked and suggest
> it to everyone else who asks the same question :-)
>
>
>
>
> "Kevin Weilbacher [SBS-MVP]" <kweilbacMVP@gte.net> wrote in message
> news:ee1E6FBaEHA.3112@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Obviously, Susan, your asking "how can we do it better" is mostly
directed
> > at those of us who respond, since I'm not sure we can control who or how
> > questions are posted.
> >
> > Personally, I would like to see some more new SBS specific newsgroups -
> > for
> > example, SBS-ISA/DNS, SBS-Exchange, SBS-Sharepoint, etc. I sure know
that
> > when it comes to an ISA or DNS question, I'm not going to be able to
> > contribute much.
> >
> > --
> > Kevin Weilbacher [SBS-MVP]
> > "The days pass by so quickly now, the nights are seldom long"
> >
> >
> > "Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
> > wrote in message news:%23FFWKi9ZEHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >> A fellow MVP who runs usergroups said that his community just doesn't
> >> find value in newsgroups. That you have to filter out a lot of
> >> gunk,etc. Just got me to thinking about the time a couple of years
back
> >> that Jeff Middleton asked "How can we do better?" in the Newsgroups.
We
> >> haven't done that in a long time...
> >>
> >> So.... without further ado....I'm asking
> >>
> >> "How can we [all] do better?"
> >>
> >> Suggestions? Recommendations? Things that can be done better?
> >> Recommendations to take back to Microsoft?
> >>
> >> Remember, that it's my belief that all of us out here that have the
BTDT
> >> credentials are higher than any other credential holder, MVP tag line,
> >> you name it.
> >>
> >> [BTDT = been there, done that]
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm
> >
> >
>
>

Henry
Mon Jul 12 10:36:39 CDT 2004

A weekly FAQ isn't a bad idea, we had ( maybe still have ) one in the
ms-access newsgroup.

Not so much a FAQ but a pointer on how to get the best results from a
question, by posting germane details, How to Query the Google Archives
and a list of resources, websites, etc... for self research.

--
Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}
Melbourne Australia


"Phil Partridge" <philp@pebble.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:R+xNlCA5wq8AFw68@pebble.demon.co.uk...
> <ENORMOUSLY BIG SNIP>
>
> As one of the 'idiots' who asks the questions, a few comments;
>
> I *know* there are NG's for SBS2k etc. as well as this one.. Laziness
> and the thought of having to trawl yet another NG keeps me here!
> You guys (and gals) are brilliant, and I thank-you on behalf of all
who
> post Q's here.
> I have had a 'rant' in the past, and I think one post was met with
> 'silence' when I asked something a little too close to the edge of
> legality. - That's fine, the silence spoke volumes.
>
> Regarding the common, frequently asked Q's.. How about a FAQ post?
> This could have links to smallbizserver.net etc. and could contain the
> common Q's and recommended ways of doing things. Links to useful sites
> and tools... You get the drift.
>
> Personally, I have about 20 threads permanently saved in my
newsreader,
> everything from the loginscript document via exchange to VPN's.
>
> I am also grateful for the times you all respond when things are OT,
my
> TS problems earlier this year come to mind on this one.
>
> The beauty of the NG's is they are open and free-form, newsreaders can
> be set to delete messages after a certain time, so it is easy to just
> let the newsreader deal with it.. Blogs and forums tend to get bloated
> quite quickly, unless someone is moderating them. - A thankless task
> which can become all consuming, so tends to fail once the initial
> enthusiasm wears off. Also, my ancient W95 P120 can keep up with plain
> text NG's, and is less prone to 'nasties' than these new-fangled W2k
and
> XP beasts! Mind you, I could do with a HDD bigger than 2GB!
>
> Anyway, I going OT here, SO.... I say keep the NG's, add a FAQ, keep
up
> the good work on the web-sites, and God bless you all!
>
> TTFN,
> Phil Partridge
> philp@pebbleGRIT.demon.co.uk
> Remove the grit to reply

Gary
Mon Jul 12 10:54:09 CDT 2004

Telling someone, "I'm not going to tell you how to do that because you might
hurt yourself" is by defintion condescending.

GaryK

"Henry Craven" <IUnknown@Dot.Nyet> wrote in message
news:uqaXyQCaEHA.2816@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> As I don't know -which- "don't do that(s)" your referring to it's
> difficult to speak to them specifically.
> Certainly some, such as security risks to data in a clinic or hospital
> for example, can be potentially very dangerous.
>
> I'm sorry you think a warning alone is condescending. I don't.
> I also believe that no-one is obliged to post anything they don't wish
> to, for whatever reason.
>
> You're free of course to post a "how to" to any such threads as you feel
> are lacking whenever you like.
>
> --
> Henry Craven {SBS-MVP}
> Melbourne Australia
>
> "Gary Karasik" <gkarasik2fea.net> wrote in message
> news:#hUcAnBaEHA.3132@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > We agree that no one in an MS-sponsored NG should be expected to tell
> > posters how to circumvent MSs licensing, and certainly posters should
> try to
> > research solutions themselves before posting here (and BTW, as a
> tribute to
> > these SBS groups--not all MSNG's are as responsive), and certainly
> posters
> > should post solutions they've found, and certainly a warning is
> justifiable
> > (and appreciated!) if a particular tweak might cause harm that the
> poster
> > hasn't considered. But except in very limited circumstances that
> warning
> > should be accompanied by an answer to the poster's question. Otherwise
> the
> > MVPs risk being condescending. We all appreciate being treated as
> > responsible adults who can, given the facts, make intelligent choices.
> >
> > As you say, there's judgment involved, but frankly I'm not seeing the
> > analogy between telling someone how to load Outlook on a server and
> "handing
> > a child a loaded gun." In this particular case, even MS doesn't say,
> "don't
> > do that"; they say, "We recommend against that."
> >
> > Often posters (I know I've done this) ask goofy, poorly thought out,
> or
> > poorly articulated questions. But mostly people come here as a last
> resort
> > because the google or MSKB response they've found and tried to
> implement is
> > inadequate in some way--not on point, not applicable in a particular
> > situation, just-plain wrong, and/or simply incomprehensible.
> >
> > GaryK
>
>

IBC
Mon Jul 12 12:02:37 CDT 2004

Things I'd like to see:

1. Somebody, ANYBODY, fer cripes sake, the RECEPTIONIST at Microsoft, PLEASE
look at these groups once a day and clean up the garbage. I don't need
'affordable office space in asia', or 'hot young teens' or any of the other
blather. I'd understand if those things hung out for a day or 2, but it sits
in here for months.
2. I agree on the search engine for the NG's. I fear that its a function of
OE and not the NG though. Too often I do a search for something I KNOW
exists and despite searching for it in every conceivable form, it fails to
show in a search. Sometimes, I can't even find my OWN posts from before.
3. Follow up your posts, ALWAYS. Whether it worked or not, it seems it
should be common courtesy to let the group as a whole know what works and
what doesn't.
4. Assume nothing. The mere fact that somebody is posting here should not
make people assume that the poster is technology savvy and has installed SBS
themselves. Many people are 'business' people by default and not tech
people, and other have inherited installs and know nothing about SBS of its
interdependencies.

As has been said....SBS Rocks!

"Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
wrote in message news:#FFWKi9ZEHA.2972@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> A fellow MVP who runs usergroups said that his community just doesn't
> find value in newsgroups. That you have to filter out a lot of
> gunk,etc. Just got me to thinking about the time a couple of years back
> that Jeff Middleton asked "How can we do better?" in the Newsgroups. We
> haven't done that in a long time...
>
> So.... without further ado....I'm asking
>
> "How can we [all] do better?"
>
> Suggestions? Recommendations? Things that can be done better?
> Recommendations to take back to Microsoft?
>
> Remember, that it's my belief that all of us out here that have the BTDT
> credentials are higher than any other credential holder, MVP tag line,
> you name it.
>
> [BTDT = been there, done that]
>
>
> --
> http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm

CRIS
Mon Jul 12 12:23:10 CDT 2004

There are 4 newsgroups for SBS
backoffice.smallbiz is from 4.X
backoffice.smallbiz2000 pretty obvious
smallbiz.sbsisp was created for 4.0 and should have gone away
and
windows.server.sbs is supposed to be for 2003. The MVPs fought hard to have
this be SBS2003 or smallbiz2003 but MS was making a change to naming
conventions for NGs and we just couldn't win it.



--
Cris Hanna (SBS-MVP)
_____________________
Please only respond in the Newsgroup and not directly to me, so that
everyone can share the information
"Chris Curtis" <ccurtis@no_spam.nildram.co.uk> wrote in messa