Here we are -- into the 21st century -- with all this technology and
advancements around. So what happens? We turn on our computers, and things
work just fine one day. Then they don't work the next day. It's enough to
make a grown man (or woman) cry! So, with that, let's turn to a marvelous
Broadway musical, "Bye Bye Birdie", where there's a tune that asked the
timeless question:

"What's the matter with kids today?"
or "What's the matter with programs today?"

Bugs!
I don't know why programs still have bugs these days!
Bugs!
Programs don't work, they just fail each day!
Bugs!
They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!

While we're on the subject:
Bugs!
You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
Bugs!
But they still just do what they want to do!
Why can't these programs work like they did in DOS ---
Perfect in every way?
What's the matter with programs today?

Software!
We buy some many versions of software these days
Software!
Try it! Buy it! Download it! Break it! Crash it! What, no backup?
And while we're on the subject!
Software!
They're just impossible to control!

Software!
With their awful GUI screens and prompts and illogical error messages!
Why can't they write code like we did
What's wrong with DOS and a 286 chip?
What's the matter with programs today?

Song of the Week - July 20, 2003 by plawton

plawton
Mon Jul 21 20:34:58 CDT 2003

After installing Microsoft Small Business Server 2000 on
our new server, and learning that it takes a three men and
a boy to configure and run the damn thing, it occurs to me
that any time someone draws an analogy between computers
and cars, they are decades ahead of the truth. Computers
and specifically operating systems are today where
transportation was 100 years ago: they are steam
locomotives. You need a special engineer, a fireman, a
brakeman, and somebody to run around and oil everything
all the time. You need to stop the beast every hundred
miles for water, or coal, or wood, or some other
adjustment. It's a huge, enormously complex assembly,
best suited to pulling other huge things, that can only go
in certain directions on selected tracks, of certain
gauge.

In a hundred years, computing will be where cars are
today: a simple matter of getting in, starting up, and
going, with no maintenance for 100,000 miles.

>-----Original Message-----
>Here we are -- into the 21st century -- with all this
technology and
>advancements around. So what happens? We turn on our
computers, and things
>work just fine one day. Then they don't work the next
day. It's enough to
>make a grown man (or woman) cry! So, with that, let's
turn to a marvelous
>Broadway musical, "Bye Bye Birdie", where there's a tune
that asked the
>timeless question:
>
>"What's the matter with kids today?"
>or "What's the matter with programs today?"
>
>Bugs!
>I don't know why programs still have bugs these days!
>Bugs!
>Programs don't work, they just fail each day!
>Bugs!
>They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
>Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
>
>While we're on the subject:
>Bugs!
>You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
>Bugs!
>But they still just do what they want to do!
>Why can't these programs work like they did in DOS ---
>Perfect in every way?
>What's the matter with programs today?
>
>Software!
>We buy some many versions of software these days
>Software!
>Try it! Buy it! Download it! Break it! Crash it! What, no
backup?
>And while we're on the subject!
>Software!
>They're just impossible to control!
>
>Software!
>With their awful GUI screens and prompts and illogical
error messages!
>Why can't they write code like we did
>What's wrong with DOS and a 286 chip?
>What's the matter with programs today?
>
>
>.
>

Re: Song of the Week - July 20, 2003 by Susan

Susan
Mon Jul 21 20:40:33 CDT 2003

No, it takes one person, one Internet account and a constant connection
to a newsgroup to install a SBS server :-)

plawton wrote:

> After installing Microsoft Small Business Server 2000 on
> our new server, and learning that it takes a three men and
> a boy to configure and run the damn thing, it occurs to me
> that any time someone draws an analogy between computers
> and cars, they are decades ahead of the truth. Computers
> and specifically operating systems are today where
> transportation was 100 years ago: they are steam
> locomotives. You need a special engineer, a fireman, a
> brakeman, and somebody to run around and oil everything
> all the time. You need to stop the beast every hundred
> miles for water, or coal, or wood, or some other
> adjustment. It's a huge, enormously complex assembly,
> best suited to pulling other huge things, that can only go
> in certain directions on selected tracks, of certain
> gauge.
>
> In a hundred years, computing will be where cars are
> today: a simple matter of getting in, starting up, and
> going, with no maintenance for 100,000 miles.
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Here we are -- into the 21st century -- with all this
> technology and
> >advancements around. So what happens? We turn on our
> computers, and things
> >work just fine one day. Then they don't work the next
> day. It's enough to
> >make a grown man (or woman) cry! So, with that, let's
> turn to a marvelous
> >Broadway musical, "Bye Bye Birdie", where there's a tune
> that asked the
> >timeless question:
> >
> >"What's the matter with kids today?"
> >or "What's the matter with programs today?"
> >
> >Bugs!
> >I don't know why programs still have bugs these days!
> >Bugs!
> >Programs don't work, they just fail each day!
> >Bugs!
> >They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
> >Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
> >
> >While we're on the subject:
> >Bugs!
> >You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
> >Bugs!
> >But they still just do what they want to do!
> >Why can't these programs work like they did in DOS ---
> >Perfect in every way?
> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >
> >Software!
> >We buy some many versions of software these days
> >Software!
> >Try it! Buy it! Download it! Break it! Crash it! What, no
> backup?
> >And while we're on the subject!
> >Software!
> >They're just impossible to control!
> >
> >Software!
> >With their awful GUI screens and prompts and illogical
> error messages!
> >Why can't they write code like we did
> >What's wrong with DOS and a 286 chip?
> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >
> >
> >.
> >

--
"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of being,
not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still does
not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on your
patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold them
responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know how
to use it properly and effectively."
~Rain Forest Puppy
http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt



Re: Song of the Week - July 20, 2003 by plawton

plawton
Mon Jul 21 21:01:08 CDT 2003

Ms. Bradley:

From my perspective, managing network operations is far
too labor intensive - I'm trying to run a business.
Imagine if the average office had to constantly tweak and
patch its telephone system, and had to assign a person to
do so for 40 hours a week. The truth is clearly this:
Microsoft has determined that their best supporters are
the MSCE-type consultants, and they put together this SBS
2000 package for them. Since there are no Microsoft
classes in SBS 2000, millions of small business owners
have no choice but to either hire a consultant, or become
one. Another frustrating rip-off.

plawton
Connecticut
>-----Original Message-----
>No, it takes one person, one Internet account and a
constant connection
>to a newsgroup to install a SBS server :-)
>
>plawton wrote:
>
>> After installing Microsoft Small Business Server 2000 on
>> our new server, and learning that it takes a three men
and
>> a boy to configure and run the damn thing, it occurs to
me
>> that any time someone draws an analogy between computers
>> and cars, they are decades ahead of the truth.
Computers
>> and specifically operating systems are today where
>> transportation was 100 years ago: they are steam
>> locomotives. You need a special engineer, a fireman, a
>> brakeman, and somebody to run around and oil everything
>> all the time. You need to stop the beast every hundred
>> miles for water, or coal, or wood, or some other
>> adjustment. It's a huge, enormously complex assembly,
>> best suited to pulling other huge things, that can only
go
>> in certain directions on selected tracks, of certain
>> gauge.
>>
>> In a hundred years, computing will be where cars are
>> today: a simple matter of getting in, starting up, and
>> going, with no maintenance for 100,000 miles.
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >Here we are -- into the 21st century -- with all this
>> technology and
>> >advancements around. So what happens? We turn on our
>> computers, and things
>> >work just fine one day. Then they don't work the next
>> day. It's enough to
>> >make a grown man (or woman) cry! So, with that, let's
>> turn to a marvelous
>> >Broadway musical, "Bye Bye Birdie", where there's a
tune
>> that asked the
>> >timeless question:
>> >
>> >"What's the matter with kids today?"
>> >or "What's the matter with programs today?"
>> >
>> >Bugs!
>> >I don't know why programs still have bugs these days!
>> >Bugs!
>> >Programs don't work, they just fail each day!
>> >Bugs!
>> >They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
>> >Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
>> >
>> >While we're on the subject:
>> >Bugs!
>> >You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
>> >Bugs!
>> >But they still just do what they want to do!
>> >Why can't these programs work like they did in DOS ---
>> >Perfect in every way?
>> >What's the matter with programs today?
>> >
>> >Software!
>> >We buy some many versions of software these days
>> >Software!
>> >Try it! Buy it! Download it! Break it! Crash it! What,
no
>> backup?
>> >And while we're on the subject!
>> >Software!
>> >They're just impossible to control!
>> >
>> >Software!
>> >With their awful GUI screens and prompts and illogical
>> error messages!
>> >Why can't they write code like we did
>> >What's wrong with DOS and a 286 chip?
>> >What's the matter with programs today?
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >
>
>--
>"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of
being,
>not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still
does
>not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on
your
>patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold them
>responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know how
>to use it properly and effectively."
>~Rain Forest Puppy
>http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt
>
>
>.
>

Re: Song of the Week - July 20, 2003 by Susan

Susan
Mon Jul 21 21:13:11 CDT 2003

Mr. Plawton... Do you fix your own car? Do you do your own Dentistry
work? Do you perform surgery on yourself?

Isn't that what you are asking to do?

Make no mistake about this Mr. Plawton, setting up a computer system is
NOT easy. Did you know there are over 64,000 ports on a computer
system? Did you know that there are 5 systems inside your one server?

Rip off? No, this system is not. There is no other system around my
friend that gives you as much as this box does. Is it complicated? Yup
that it is and so is computing in general. For that I do blame
Microsoft...for years they've made us believe that these computers are
so simple that anyone can set them up. No. No operating system in th
world, not Unix, not Linux, not Microsoft, none are easy. They have
veneers of GUI's over the top to lull us into thinking that they are no
harder than a toaster but don't kid yourself..... the technology inside
that box...the brain power inside that box.....the passion of
programmers and coders that give countless hours to protect us from the
stupid script kiddies and hackers who have nothing better to do than to
screw up our economy.... did you know that one of the recent patches had
a code date of July 5th. That's a Saturday. A holiday. And some smuck
or two or three in the Security division of Microsoft was working their
you know whats off over a holiday weekend to keep us safe out here.

As for that lack of classes? Poppycock. I took a Hands on Lab in SBS
2000 in May of 2001. They've even got online hands on labs for the 2003
product.

Millions of small business owners SHOULD be hiring consultants or BECOME
one because I can guarantee you that Security...whether delivered by
Redmond or by the Penguin is not easy.

This not a TV you just plug in and use.

This is a machine that has code, written "for good" that if not properly
cared for can be taken over "for bad".

You take your car in for servicing right? You pay for insurance? For a
license? There's no way that I would ever consider starting to tear
down my car and attempt to understand it's parts.

Know what you can do.
Know what you can't.
And realize that by paying for assistance you will save money in the
long run

Apologize for the rant...but this platform is not a rip off

And I'm a beancounter.

plawton wrote:

> Ms. Bradley:
>
> From my perspective, managing network operations is far
> too labor intensive - I'm trying to run a business.
> Imagine if the average office had to constantly tweak and
> patch its telephone system, and had to assign a person to
> do so for 40 hours a week. The truth is clearly this:
> Microsoft has determined that their best supporters are
> the MSCE-type consultants, and they put together this SBS
> 2000 package for them. Since there are no Microsoft
> classes in SBS 2000, millions of small business owners
> have no choice but to either hire a consultant, or become
> one. Another frustrating rip-off.
>
> plawton
> Connecticut
> >-----Original Message-----
> >No, it takes one person, one Internet account and a
> constant connection
> >to a newsgroup to install a SBS server :-)
> >
> >plawton wrote:
> >
> >> After installing Microsoft Small Business Server 2000 on
> >> our new server, and learning that it takes a three men
> and
> >> a boy to configure and run the damn thing, it occurs to
> me
> >> that any time someone draws an analogy between computers
> >> and cars, they are decades ahead of the truth.
> Computers
> >> and specifically operating systems are today where
> >> transportation was 100 years ago: they are steam
> >> locomotives. You need a special engineer, a fireman, a
> >> brakeman, and somebody to run around and oil everything
> >> all the time. You need to stop the beast every hundred
> >> miles for water, or coal, or wood, or some other
> >> adjustment. It's a huge, enormously complex assembly,
> >> best suited to pulling other huge things, that can only
> go
> >> in certain directions on selected tracks, of certain
> >> gauge.
> >>
> >> In a hundred years, computing will be where cars are
> >> today: a simple matter of getting in, starting up, and
> >> going, with no maintenance for 100,000 miles.
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >Here we are -- into the 21st century -- with all this
> >> technology and
> >> >advancements around. So what happens? We turn on our
> >> computers, and things
> >> >work just fine one day. Then they don't work the next
> >> day. It's enough to
> >> >make a grown man (or woman) cry! So, with that, let's
> >> turn to a marvelous
> >> >Broadway musical, "Bye Bye Birdie", where there's a
> tune
> >> that asked the
> >> >timeless question:
> >> >
> >> >"What's the matter with kids today?"
> >> >or "What's the matter with programs today?"
> >> >
> >> >Bugs!
> >> >I don't know why programs still have bugs these days!
> >> >Bugs!
> >> >Programs don't work, they just fail each day!
> >> >Bugs!
> >> >They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
> >> >Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
> >> >
> >> >While we're on the subject:
> >> >Bugs!
> >> >You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
> >> >Bugs!
> >> >But they still just do what they want to do!
> >> >Why can't these programs work like they did in DOS ---
> >> >Perfect in every way?
> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >> >
> >> >Software!
> >> >We buy some many versions of software these days
> >> >Software!
> >> >Try it! Buy it! Download it! Break it! Crash it! What,
> no
> >> backup?
> >> >And while we're on the subject!
> >> >Software!
> >> >They're just impossible to control!
> >> >
> >> >Software!
> >> >With their awful GUI screens and prompts and illogical
> >> error messages!
> >> >Why can't they write code like we did
> >> >What's wrong with DOS and a 286 chip?
> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >.
> >> >
> >
> >--
> >"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of
> being,
> >not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still
> does
> >not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on
> your
> >patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold them
> >responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know how
> >to use it properly and effectively."
> >~Rain Forest Puppy
> >http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt
> >
> >
> >.
> >

--
"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of being,
not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still does
not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on your
patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold them
responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know how
to use it properly and effectively."
~Rain Forest Puppy
http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt



Re: Song of the Week - July 20, 2003 by plawton

plawton
Mon Jul 21 21:32:41 CDT 2003

I repeat: Imagine if the average office had to constantly
tweak and patch its telephone system, and had to assign a
person to do so for 40 hours a week.

At one time, telephone systems were repulsively complex
switchboards, requiring several staffers to operate.
Today, I just plug it in and it works.

Put yourself down the road 25 or 50 years, and you will
look back on SBS 2000 and giggle about how painfully
convoluted it was - much as you do today when you think
back on the pain of IRQs and manually setting interrupts.

Also, this is not meant to be a personal assault on you
folks who choose to immerse yourselves in this full-time.

plawton
Connecticut

>-----Original Message-----
>You answered your own question, IMO, when you said "I'm
trying to run a
>business".
>
>So, if you are running a business, don't you hire people
to do the work that
>needs to get done? You hire sales people, office people,
and support staff.
>Why would running and maintaining a business computer be
the exception to
>the rule?
>
>As to the work involved with patches, fixes, updates ...
all I can say is
>.... don't blame Microsoft for spam, popup windows, and
hackers ... welcome
>to the 21st century!
>-kw
>
>"plawton" <plawton@snet.net> wrote in message
>news:05fb01c34ff5$1e1a2e80$a401280a@phx.gbl...
>> Ms. Bradley:
>>
>> From my perspective, managing network operations is far
>> too labor intensive - I'm trying to run a business.
>> Imagine if the average office had to constantly tweak
and
>> patch its telephone system, and had to assign a person
to
>> do so for 40 hours a week. The truth is clearly this:
>> Microsoft has determined that their best supporters are
>> the MSCE-type consultants, and they put together this
SBS
>> 2000 package for them. Since there are no Microsoft
>> classes in SBS 2000, millions of small business owners
>> have no choice but to either hire a consultant, or
become
>> one. Another frustrating rip-off.
>>
>> plawton
>> Connecticut
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >No, it takes one person, one Internet account and a
>> constant connection
>> >to a newsgroup to install a SBS server :-)
>> >
>> >plawton wrote:
>> >
>> >> After installing Microsoft Small Business Server
2000 on
>> >> our new server, and learning that it takes a three
men
>> and
>> >> a boy to configure and run the damn thing, it occurs
to
>> me
>> >> that any time someone draws an analogy between
computers
>> >> and cars, they are decades ahead of the truth.
>> Computers
>> >> and specifically operating systems are today where
>> >> transportation was 100 years ago: they are steam
>> >> locomotives. You need a special engineer, a
fireman, a
>> >> brakeman, and somebody to run around and oil
everything
>> >> all the time. You need to stop the beast every
hundred
>> >> miles for water, or coal, or wood, or some other
>> >> adjustment. It's a huge, enormously complex
assembly,
>> >> best suited to pulling other huge things, that can
only
>> go
>> >> in certain directions on selected tracks, of certain
>> >> gauge.
>> >>
>> >> In a hundred years, computing will be where cars are
>> >> today: a simple matter of getting in, starting up,
and
>> >> going, with no maintenance for 100,000 miles.
>> >>
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >Here we are -- into the 21st century -- with all
this
>> >> technology and
>> >> >advancements around. So what happens? We turn on our
>> >> computers, and things
>> >> >work just fine one day. Then they don't work the
next
>> >> day. It's enough to
>> >> >make a grown man (or woman) cry! So, with that,
let's
>> >> turn to a marvelous
>> >> >Broadway musical, "Bye Bye Birdie", where there's a
>> tune
>> >> that asked the
>> >> >timeless question:
>> >> >
>> >> >"What's the matter with kids today?"
>> >> >or "What's the matter with programs today?"
>> >> >
>> >> >Bugs!
>> >> >I don't know why programs still have bugs these
days!
>> >> >Bugs!
>> >> >Programs don't work, they just fail each day!
>> >> >Bugs!
>> >> >They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
>> >> >Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
>> >> >
>> >> >While we're on the subject:
>> >> >Bugs!
>> >> >You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
>> >> >Bugs!
>> >> >But they still just do what they want to do!
>> >> >Why can't these programs work like they did in DOS -
--
>> >> >Perfect in every way?
>> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
>> >> >
>> >> >Software!
>> >> >We buy some many versions of software these days
>> >> >Software!
>> >> >Try it! Buy it! Download it! Break it! Crash it!
What,
>> no
>> >> backup?
>> >> >And while we're on the subject!
>> >> >Software!
>> >> >They're just impossible to control!
>> >> >
>> >> >Software!
>> >> >With their awful GUI screens and prompts and
illogical
>> >> error messages!
>> >> >Why can't they write code like we did
>> >> >What's wrong with DOS and a 286 chip?
>> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >.
>> >> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of
>> being,
>> >not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still
>> does
>> >not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on
>> your
>> >patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold
them
>> >responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know
how
>> >to use it properly and effectively."
>> >~Rain Forest Puppy
>> >http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt
>> >
>> >
>> >.
>> >
>
>
>.
>

Re: Song of the Week - July 20, 2003 by Susan

Susan
Mon Jul 21 21:48:47 CDT 2003

True but ...what's the alternative.... mechanical pencil and a pad of
paper?

Think back to the Apollo moon missions..... We have more computing power
in our watches these days then they had in their entire capsules.

Who in this listserve still hasn't set the clock on their VCR after
either a power outage [me] or the daylight savings time? Computers are
NOT like TVs. And any small business is fooling themselves if they
don't need someone...whether inside the firm [like me] or outsourced.

But...now here's the cool part...look around this newsgroup and more and
more consultants are doing remote management, remote patching...so that
they can help you do your job and still keep your computer systems safe
and secure.

BTW...at my firm we still hired a telephone person to install our
telephone system at our office when our old one wasn't Y2k compatible.
We didn't install that. He installed the system, programmed it with his
laptop [yup... he connected to the box with a serial port on his
computer] so that our voice mail system would work. We still call him
when we need to change certain items and we can't remember how to
program them through the console.

...and for that matter... last I checked there's still a Phone company
out there that I call when my phone system doesn't work or to add new
services like DSL. I certainly don't/can't do that myself.

I call someone in when I need a new R45 cable run [you think I'm going
to get into the attic? I don't think so]. However, any vendor wants to
install something on my box.... uh..huh...this little baby is mine and
you, Mr. vendor not touching it...I'm my computer consultant here.

Make no mistake. This are complicated machines.

Don't you love threads that start one way and land another....
we started out singing a song that Paul Lynne sang in the movie :-)

plawton wrote:

> I repeat: Imagine if the average office had to constantly
> tweak and patch its telephone system, and had to assign a
> person to do so for 40 hours a week.
>
> At one time, telephone systems were repulsively complex
> switchboards, requiring several staffers to operate.
> Today, I just plug it in and it works.
>
> Put yourself down the road 25 or 50 years, and you will
> look back on SBS 2000 and giggle about how painfully
> convoluted it was - much as you do today when you think
> back on the pain of IRQs and manually setting interrupts.
>
> Also, this is not meant to be a personal assault on you
> folks who choose to immerse yourselves in this full-time.
>
> plawton
> Connecticut
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >You answered your own question, IMO, when you said "I'm
> trying to run a
> >business".
> >
> >So, if you are running a business, don't you hire people
> to do the work that
> >needs to get done? You hire sales people, office people,
> and support staff.
> >Why would running and maintaining a business computer be
> the exception to
> >the rule?
> >
> >As to the work involved with patches, fixes, updates ...
> all I can say is
> >.... don't blame Microsoft for spam, popup windows, and
> hackers ... welcome
> >to the 21st century!
> >-kw
> >
> >"plawton" <plawton@snet.net> wrote in message
> >news:05fb01c34ff5$1e1a2e80$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> >> Ms. Bradley:
> >>
> >> From my perspective, managing network operations is far
> >> too labor intensive - I'm trying to run a business.
> >> Imagine if the average office had to constantly tweak
> and
> >> patch its telephone system, and had to assign a person
> to
> >> do so for 40 hours a week. The truth is clearly this:
> >> Microsoft has determined that their best supporters are
> >> the MSCE-type consultants, and they put together this
> SBS
> >> 2000 package for them. Since there are no Microsoft
> >> classes in SBS 2000, millions of small business owners
> >> have no choice but to either hire a consultant, or
> become
> >> one. Another frustrating rip-off.
> >>
> >> plawton
> >> Connecticut
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >No, it takes one person, one Internet account and a
> >> constant connection
> >> >to a newsgroup to install a SBS server :-)
> >> >
> >> >plawton wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> After installing Microsoft Small Business Server
> 2000 on
> >> >> our new server, and learning that it takes a three
> men
> >> and
> >> >> a boy to configure and run the damn thing, it occurs
> to
> >> me
> >> >> that any time someone draws an analogy between
> computers
> >> >> and cars, they are decades ahead of the truth.
> >> Computers
> >> >> and specifically operating systems are today where
> >> >> transportation was 100 years ago: they are steam
> >> >> locomotives. You need a special engineer, a
> fireman, a
> >> >> brakeman, and somebody to run around and oil
> everything
> >> >> all the time. You need to stop the beast every
> hundred
> >> >> miles for water, or coal, or wood, or some other
> >> >> adjustment. It's a huge, enormously complex
> assembly,
> >> >> best suited to pulling other huge things, that can
> only
> >> go
> >> >> in certain directions on selected tracks, of certain
> >> >> gauge.
> >> >>
> >> >> In a hundred years, computing will be where cars are
> >> >> today: a simple matter of getting in, starting up,
> and
> >> >> going, with no maintenance for 100,000 miles.
> >> >>
> >> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >Here we are -- into the 21st century -- with all
> this
> >> >> technology and
> >> >> >advancements around. So what happens? We turn on our
> >> >> computers, and things
> >> >> >work just fine one day. Then they don't work the
> next
> >> >> day. It's enough to
> >> >> >make a grown man (or woman) cry! So, with that,
> let's
> >> >> turn to a marvelous
> >> >> >Broadway musical, "Bye Bye Birdie", where there's a
> >> tune
> >> >> that asked the
> >> >> >timeless question:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"What's the matter with kids today?"
> >> >> >or "What's the matter with programs today?"
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >I don't know why programs still have bugs these
> days!
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >Programs don't work, they just fail each day!
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
> >> >> >Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >While we're on the subject:
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >But they still just do what they want to do!
> >> >> >Why can't these programs work like they did in DOS -
> --
> >> >> >Perfect in every way?
> >> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >We buy some many versions of software these days
> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >Try it! Buy it! Download it! Break it! Crash it!
> What,
> >> no
> >> >> backup?
> >> >> >And while we're on the subject!
> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >They're just impossible to control!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >With their awful GUI screens and prompts and
> illogical
> >> >> error messages!
> >> >> >Why can't they write code like we did
> >> >> >What's wrong with DOS and a 286 chip?
> >> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >.
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of
> >> being,
> >> >not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still
> >> does
> >> >not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on
> >> your
> >> >patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold
> them
> >> >responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know
> how
> >> >to use it properly and effectively."
> >> >~Rain Forest Puppy
> >> >http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >.
> >> >
> >
> >
> >.
> >

--
"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of being,
not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still does
not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on your
patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold them
responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know how
to use it properly and effectively."
~Rain Forest Puppy
http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt



Re: Song of the Week - July 20, 2003 by Susan

Susan
Mon Jul 21 22:02:38 CDT 2003

And I repeat that I hired someone to install my phone system and do the
intial voice mailsystem setup. I don't have the time to try to figure
out a Panasonic Digital hybrid system kx-t7431.

Plawton... please... tell us what happened... that's what this group is
all about

For the record I'm not the traditional "consultant", I don't do this
full time.... and unless you are willing to either... a. go to a
training course that I did back in May or b. Find a consultant who does
understand this little guy it can be frustrating.

This isn't easy.

Heck... a standalone computer isn't too easy either.

Is it normal for the average person to worry about firewalls, anti
viruses, trojans and the like? Heck no.

And again...this is a computer that we install stuff on...it's not like
a TV.

My phone system we call a guy out when we get stuck. If phones "just
work" how come I have to pay a phone bill every month? There's a firm,
where people that are paid to monitor and maintain the phone systems.
Where they check on the line, put patches on.

I've had to buy new phones at my house when old ones broke.....

Make no mistake Mr. Plawton, expecting installing a server system to be
"easy" would indicate no need for MCSE's, no need for consultants. No
need for books. I don't see that happening around here.

We're so not to the place that you expected SBS to be. For your
expectations of this product, I'm sorry. It's not a toaster. It's not
a TV. It's a business server system that is an integral part of your
office just like your employees. Just like them it needs monitoring.

Sorry....





plawton wrote:

> Ms. Bradley:
>
> I repeat: Imagine if the average office had to constantly
> tweak and patch its telephone system, and had to assign a
> person to do so for 40 hours a week.
>
> At one time, telephone systems were repulsively complex
> switchboards, requiring several staffers to operate.
> Today, I just plug it in and it works.
>
> Put yourself down the road 25 or 50 years, and you will
> look back on SBS 2000 and giggle about how painfully
> convoluted it was - much as you do today when you think
> back on the pain of IRQs and manually setting interrupts.
>
> Also, this is not meant to be a personal assault on you
> folks who choose to immerse yourselves in this full-time.
>
> Regarding the classes: they may have been offered in May
> of 2001, but I think if you check microsoft's web site for
> training
> (http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/training/find/courseres
> ults.asp?
> product=Microsoft+Small+Business+Server&audience=&delivery=
> BL&language=en&scount=0,)
>
> you'll find this answer:
>
> Search Results for "Microsoft Small Business Server"
>
> No training matches were found for the search criteria you
> entered. Please modify your criteria and search again.
>
> As I said, very frustrating. Also, it's not surprising
> that microsoft would do this to small business owners,
> considering how many they've crushed in their days. The
> only option I have for educating myself is Harry
> Brelsford, who doesn't use a spell checker, and gloats
> about how much he has made as a consultant, off of small
> businesses with no other option!
>
> I'm very anxious to see what the next 25 or 50 years will
> bring.
>
> plawton
> Connecticut
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Mr. Plawton... Do you fix your own car? Do you do your
> own Dentistry
> >work? Do you perform surgery on yourself?
> >
> >Isn't that what you are asking to do?
> >
> >Make no mistake about this Mr. Plawton, setting up a
> computer system is
> >NOT easy. Did you know there are over 64,000 ports on a
> computer
> >system? Did you know that there are 5 systems inside
> your one server?
> >
> >Rip off? No, this system is not. There is no other
> system around my
> >friend that gives you as much as this box does. Is it
> complicated? Yup
> >that it is and so is computing in general. For that I do
> blame
> >Microsoft...for years they've made us believe that these
> computers are
> >so simple that anyone can set them up. No. No operating
> system in th
> >world, not Unix, not Linux, not Microsoft, none are
> easy. They have
> >veneers of GUI's over the top to lull us into thinking
> that they are no
> >harder than a toaster but don't kid yourself..... the
> technology inside
> >that box...the brain power inside that box.....the
> passion of
> >programmers and coders that give countless hours to
> protect us from the
> >stupid script kiddies and hackers who have nothing better
> to do than to
> >screw up our economy.... did you know that one of the
> recent patches had
> >a code date of July 5th. That's a Saturday. A holiday.
> And some smuck
> >or two or three in the Security division of Microsoft was
> working their
> >you know whats off over a holiday weekend to keep us safe
> out here.
> >
> >As for that lack of classes? Poppycock. I took a Hands
> on Lab in SBS
> >2000 in May of 2001. They've even got online hands on
> labs for the 2003
> >product.
> >
> >Millions of small business owners SHOULD be hiring
> consultants or BECOME
> >one because I can guarantee you that Security...whether
> delivered by
> >Redmond or by the Penguin is not easy.
> >
> >This not a TV you just plug in and use.
> >
> >This is a machine that has code, written "for good" that
> if not properly
> >cared for can be taken over "for bad".
> >
> >You take your car in for servicing right? You pay for
> insurance? For a
> >license? There's no way that I would ever consider
> starting to tear
> >down my car and attempt to understand it's parts.
> >
> >Know what you can do.
> >Know what you can't.
> >And realize that by paying for assistance you will save
> money in the
> >long run
> >
> >Apologize for the rant...but this platform is not a rip
> off
> >
> >And I'm a beancounter.
> >
> >plawton wrote:
> >
> >> Ms. Bradley:
> >>
> >> From my perspective, managing network operations is far
> >> too labor intensive - I'm trying to run a business.
> >> Imagine if the average office had to constantly tweak
> and
> >> patch its telephone system, and had to assign a person
> to
> >> do so for 40 hours a week. The truth is clearly this:
> >> Microsoft has determined that their best supporters are
> >> the MSCE-type consultants, and they put together this
> SBS
> >> 2000 package for them. Since there are no Microsoft
> >> classes in SBS 2000, millions of small business owners
> >> have no choice but to either hire a consultant, or
> become
> >> one. Another frustrating rip-off.
> >>
> >> plawton
> >> Connecticut
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >No, it takes one person, one Internet account and a
> >> constant connection
> >> >to a newsgroup to install a SBS server :-)
> >> >
> >> >plawton wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> After installing Microsoft Small Business Server
> 2000 on
> >> >> our new server, and learning that it takes a three
> men
> >> and
> >> >> a boy to configure and run the damn thing, it occurs
> to
> >> me
> >> >> that any time someone draws an analogy between
> computers
> >> >> and cars, they are decades ahead of the truth.
> >> Computers
> >> >> and specifically operating systems are today where
> >> >> transportation was 100 years ago: they are steam
> >> >> locomotives. You need a special engineer, a
> fireman, a
> >> >> brakeman, and somebody to run around and oil
> everything
> >> >> all the time. You need to stop the beast every
> hundred
> >> >> miles for water, or coal, or wood, or some other
> >> >> adjustment. It's a huge, enormously complex
> assembly,
> >> >> best suited to pulling other huge things, that can
> only
> >> go
> >> >> in certain directions on selected tracks, of certain
> >> >> gauge.
> >> >>
> >> >> In a hundred years, computing will be where cars are
> >> >> today: a simple matter of getting in, starting up,
> and
> >> >> going, with no maintenance for 100,000 miles.
> >> >>
> >> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >Here we are -- into the 21st century -- with all
> this
> >> >> technology and
> >> >> >advancements around. So what happens? We turn on our
> >> >> computers, and things
> >> >> >work just fine one day. Then they don't work the
> next
> >> >> day. It's enough to
> >> >> >make a grown man (or woman) cry! So, with that,
> let's
> >> >> turn to a marvelous
> >> >> >Broadway musical, "Bye Bye Birdie", where there's a
> >> tune
> >> >> that asked the
> >> >> >timeless question:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"What's the matter with kids today?"
> >> >> >or "What's the matter with programs today?"
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >I don't know why programs still have bugs these
> days!
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >Programs don't work, they just fail each day!
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
> >> >> >Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >While we're on the subject:
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >But they still just do what they want to do!
> >> >> >Why can't these programs work like they did in DOS -
> --
> >> >> >Perfect in every way?
> >> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >We buy some many versions of software these days
> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >Try it! Buy it! Download it! Break it! Crash it!
> What,
> >> no
> >> >> backup?
> >> >> >And while we're on the subject!
> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >They're just impossible to control!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >With their awful GUI screens and prompts and
> illogical
> >> >> error messages!
> >> >> >Why can't they write code like we did
> >> >> >What's wrong with DOS and a 286 chip?
> >> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >.
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of
> >> being,
> >> >not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still
> >> does
> >> >not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on
> >> your
> >> >patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold
> them
> >> >responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know
> how
> >> >to use it properly and effectively."
> >> >~Rain Forest Puppy
> >> >http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >.
> >> >
> >
> >--
> >"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of
> being,
> >not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still
> does
> >not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on
> your
> >patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold them
> >responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know how
> >to use it properly and effectively."
> >~Rain Forest Puppy
> >http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt
> >
> >
> >.
> >

--
"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of being,
not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still does
not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on your
patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold them
responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know how
to use it properly and effectively."
~Rain Forest Puppy
http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt



Re: Song of the Week - July 20, 2003 by Susan

Susan
Mon Jul 21 22:24:08 CDT 2003

Hang in there Plawton....once upon a time when I rebooted my SBS 4.5
server I would [I kid you not] sit in front of the console, crossed my
fingers, squinted and would think happy thoughts as I hit the power
button and would only "unsquint" when the SBS4.5 splash screen would
come into view and I could breathe a sigh of relief.

It's getting better.
It's not there yet.



plawton wrote:

> You raise a good point about the computer being more
> capable than the telephone, and the therefore inevitable
> increase in support requirements. I don't deny that the
> analogy breaks down, but I am 100% certain that in 25 or
> 50 or 100 years, all computing will be far simpler, and we
> will be grappling with the next (true) paradigm shift,
> like teleportation or something ("When I was a boy, we had
> to drive to the store! Now all you whippersnappers want
> to do is zap yourselves over there! Well, you're not
> getting me in one of those damn contraptions, no SIR.
> I'll sooner walk, thank you very much!").
>
> This mess that we're in now, then, will seem miniscule,
> and the problems will have melted into distant memory.
>
> Thanks for your time and insights.
>
> plawton
> Connecticut
> >-----Original Message-----
> >We know it's not personal, and we also understand your
> frustration.
> >
> >But your phone analogy doesn't quite work. Let's say
> you're right and the
> >phones are plug and play. If that's true, why do you get
> a phone bill each
> >month? Because you are paying for technical support and
> service when it does
> >break! And do you think features like message waiting,
> and three way
> >conferencing just automatically happens?
> >
> >Also, any business of more than a couple of people will
> have an in house
> >phone system that does conferencing, voice mail,
> automatic faxing,
> >reporting, switching, etc, and that needs to
> be "programmed" to work. It is
> >not just "plug it in and it works". I know many
> businesses that have a
> >dedicated person to handling phone and communication type
> of issues.
> >
> >And when the phone does stop working --- what happens?
> You call the phone
> >company that has thousands of people working for it!
> >
> >Sure, you pick up a phone and it usually just works.
> >And for the most part, you turn on your computer and it
> usually just works.
> >But whether its a phone or a computer, there is
> technology, hardware,
> >software backing it up.
> >
> >The problem is that a phone does a single task ... it
> let's you talk. But a
> >computer is doing multiple tasks ... you can write an
> email, create a
> >resume, edit a photograph, search an encyclopedia on a
> cdrom, search for bus
> >maps in Italy from your home in the U.S., and share ideas
> on a newsgroup.
> >
> >The computer is far more complex than a phone. Should it
> be simple. Sure it
> >should. Darn, life should be simple, but it's not. Golf
> is certainly a
> >simple sport ... it was provien yesterday when a "no
> name" golfer beat Tiger
> >Woods ... I can just see Tiger walking away saying, "This
> used to be a
> >siimple game. How cin the world could I take three putts
> from 3 feet
> >away???".
> >
> >:-)
> >kw
> >
> >plawton" <plawton@snet.net> wrote in message
> >news:070b01c34ff9$8620e6a0$a301280a@phx.gbl...
> >> I repeat: Imagine if the average office had to
> constantly
> >> tweak and patch its telephone system, and had to assign
> a
> >> person to do so for 40 hours a week.
> >>
> >> At one time, telephone systems were repulsively complex
> >> switchboards, requiring several staffers to operate.
> >> Today, I just plug it in and it works.
> >>
> >> Put yourself down the road 25 or 50 years, and you will
> >> look back on SBS 2000 and giggle about how painfully
> >> convoluted it was - much as you do today when you think
> >> back on the pain of IRQs and manually setting
> interrupts.
> >>
> >> Also, this is not meant to be a personal assault on you
> >> folks who choose to immerse yourselves in this full-
> time.
> >>
> >> plawton
> >> Connecticut
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >You answered your own question, IMO, when you said "I'm
> >> trying to run a
> >> >business".
> >> >
> >> >So, if you are running a business, don't you hire
> people
> >> to do the work that
> >> >needs to get done? You hire sales people, office
> people,
> >> and support staff.
> >> >Why would running and maintaining a business computer
> be
> >> the exception to
> >> >the rule?
> >> >
> >> >As to the work involved with patches, fixes,
> updates ...
> >> all I can say is
> >> >.... don't blame Microsoft for spam, popup windows, and
> >> hackers ... welcome
> >> >to the 21st century!
> >> >-kw
> >> >
> >> >"plawton" <plawton@snet.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:05fb01c34ff5$1e1a2e80$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> >> >> Ms. Bradley:
> >> >>
> >> >> From my perspective, managing network operations is
> far
> >> >> too labor intensive - I'm trying to run a business.
> >> >> Imagine if the average office had to constantly tweak
> >> and
> >> >> patch its telephone system, and had to assign a
> person
> >> to
> >> >> do so for 40 hours a week. The truth is clearly
> this:
> >> >> Microsoft has determined that their best supporters
> are
> >> >> the MSCE-type consultants, and they put together this
> >> SBS
> >> >> 2000 package for them. Since there are no Microsoft
> >> >> classes in SBS 2000, millions of small business
> owners
> >> >> have no choice but to either hire a consultant, or
> >> become
> >> >> one. Another frustrating rip-off.
> >> >>
> >> >> plawton
> >> >> Connecticut
> >> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >No, it takes one person, one Internet account and a
> >> >> constant connection
> >> >> >to a newsgroup to install a SBS server :-)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >plawton wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> After installing Microsoft Small Business Server
> >> 2000 on
> >> >> >> our new server, and learning that it takes a three
> >> men
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> a boy to configure and run the damn thing, it
> occurs
> >> to
> >> >> me
> >> >> >> that any time someone draws an analogy between
> >> computers
> >> >> >> and cars, they are decades ahead of the truth.
> >> >> Computers
> >> >> >> and specifically operating systems are today where
> >> >> >> transportation was 100 years ago: they are steam
> >> >> >> locomotives. You need a special engineer, a
> >> fireman, a
> >> >> >> brakeman, and somebody to run around and oil
> >> everything
> >> >> >> all the time. You need to stop the beast every
> >> hundred
> >> >> >> miles for water, or coal, or wood, or some other
> >> >> >> adjustment. It's a huge, enormously complex
> >> assembly,
> >> >> >> best suited to pulling other huge things, that can
> >> only
> >> >> go
> >> >> >> in certain directions on selected tracks, of
> certain
> >> >> >> gauge.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> In a hundred years, computing will be where cars
> are
> >> >> >> today: a simple matter of getting in, starting up,
> >> and
> >> >> >> going, with no maintenance for 100,000 miles.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >Here we are -- into the 21st century -- with all
> >> this
> >> >> >> technology and
> >> >> >> >advancements around. So what happens? We turn on
> our
> >> >> >> computers, and things
> >> >> >> >work just fine one day. Then they don't work the
> >> next
> >> >> >> day. It's enough to
> >> >> >> >make a grown man (or woman) cry! So, with that,
> >> let's
> >> >> >> turn to a marvelous
> >> >> >> >Broadway musical, "Bye Bye Birdie", where
> there's a
> >> >> tune
> >> >> >> that asked the
> >> >> >> >timeless question:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"What's the matter with kids today?"
> >> >> >> >or "What's the matter with programs today?"
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >> >I don't know why programs still have bugs these
> >> days!
> >> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >> >Programs don't work, they just fail each day!
> >> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >> >They are disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
> >> >> >> >Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >While we're on the subject:
> >> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >> >You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
> >> >> >> >Bugs!
> >> >> >> >But they still just do what they want to do!
> >> >> >> >Why can't these programs work like they did in
> DOS -
> >> --
> >> >> >> >Perfect in every way?
> >> >> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >> >We buy some many versions of software these days
> >> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >> >Try it! Buy it! Download it! Break it! Crash it!
> >> What,
> >> >> no
> >> >> >> backup?
> >> >> >> >And while we're on the subject!
> >> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >> >They're just impossible to control!
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Software!
> >> >> >> >With their awful GUI screens and prompts and
> >> illogical
> >> >> >> error messages!
> >> >> >> >Why can't they write code like we did
> >> >> >> >What's wrong with DOS and a 286 chip?
> >> >> >> >What's the matter with programs today?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--
> >> >> >"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state
> of
> >> >> being,
> >> >> >not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls
> still
> >> >> does
> >> >> >not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date
> on
> >> >> your
> >> >> >patches. Demand better security from vendors and
> hold
> >> them
> >> >> >responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you
> know
> >> how
> >> >> >to use it properly and effectively."
> >> >> >~Rain Forest Puppy
> >> >> >http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >.
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >.
> >> >
> >
> >
> >.
> >

--
"Don't lose sight of security. Security is a state of being,
not a state of budget. He with the most firewalls still does
not win. Put down that honeypot and keep up to date on your
patches. Demand better security from vendors and hold them
responsible. Use what you have, and make sure you know how
to use it properly and effectively."
~Rain Forest Puppy
http://www.wiretrip.net/rfp/txt/evolution.txt