Re: SBS/Exchange 2000 and Yahoo.com email problems by SuperGumby
SuperGumby
Fri Jan 04 05:37:25 CST 2008
OK, so the net result as I read that is that you have tried a lot of things
I have no reason to believe will work but _at least_ one thing I expected to
work (based on google search) smtp.concentric.net.
I did not at any time suggest either secure.xo.com nor
smtp.<domain>.com.xohost.com. I suggested the _absolute_, _literal_ names
mail.njd.xo.com or smtp.concentric.net.
I don't know. Maybe XO are anal retards. 'Technical Support' _can_ be
expected to say 'hang on, I'll go ask' if you ask them 'what server can I
use as smarthost?' but if you ask them 'What outgoing mail server should I
use in outlook?' it would be very unusual for them to give you other than
the name of the server you can use as 'smarthost'.
NOTE: Ask this question of the ISP, do not ask the 'web/mail hosting' branch
of the ISP, do not ask your 'account rep'(who may have preconceptions about
your requirements). Pretend to be a single user connected to their service,
'I want to send email'.
If XO do not have a server that can do such they are the first ISP on the
planet to do so. Recently someone on another ISP was questioning similar
restriction (sending identity must equal 'from address'), I also advised
them similarly (ie. do not send through the server associated with your
'hosted domain' but through your ISP's 'general server'), AFAIK they haven't
confirmed nor denied success.
"Joe_M" <x24w0cg02@NOsneakSPAMemail.com> wrote in message
news:13nrqbm1sl8rgf4@corp.supernews.com...
> Your comment makes sense. However, if XO does provide such a server they
> have hidden it from me, at least 5 of their tech support reps, 2 second
> level (guess from "please hold while I check") support reps, and Google. I
> tried setting SmartHost to the 2 servers you suggested, secure.xo.com (XO
> suggested server for individual mailboxes), and
> smtp.<domain>.com.xohost.com as suggested by one support rep. All were
> attempted without any authentication or TLS. None worked. The
> secure.xo.com attempt returned an NDR saying the client host rejected. The
> others returned NDRs saying "There was a SMTP communication problem with
> the recipient's email server."
>
> I also tried smtp.<domain>.com.xohost.com and smtp.concentric.net without
> authentication, but with TLS. I did not get quick NDRs, but I see the test
> emails in the "Messages with an unreachable destination" queue.
>
> I also tried using a connector with the smart host and an authentication
> via an XO user that was set to allow alternate from addresses. It did not
> work with alternate from addresses, but did work with the authentication
> from address.
>
> Any suggestions about a 3rd party relay service?
>
> Joe M
>
> "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <not@your.nellie> wrote in message
> news:OEV8G8oTIHA.4768@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>I suspect it is more about 'Wah?' than anything else. ISPs normally
>>provide _at least one server_ for clients attached to that ISP to relay
>>through.
>>
>> Picture Joe Bloggs, ordinary internet user, he wishes to send from
>> joe@isp.com, joeb@company.com, joe54@hotmail etc... his wife wishes to
>> send from joanna@company2.com, his son from joejr@homedns.org. Though I
>> appreciate that it is possible for XO to implement this 'opt in' style
>> restriction I expect you are asking them about something they simply
>> don't understand.
>>
>> _try_ the suggested server(s). Do they work as 'smarthost' (HINT: the
>> term 'smarthost' is purely an MS thing, ask anyone unfamiliar with
>> Exchange/MS terminology and the expected response is 'Wah?')
>>
>> "Joe_M" <x24w0cg02@NOsneakSPAMemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:13nr2ki3oijlndf@corp.supernews.com...
>>> Their preferred server is secure.xo.com, but that is not the problem.
>>> They say they do not have a smart host service (some of them say Wah?).
>>> They require an authentication before allowing a relay. That
>>> authentication has to be a user (mailbox) listed in the account at XO
>>> and password. Once authenticated, they will allow outbound emails from
>>> that user only. There is a mechanism to allow "Alteranate From
>>> Addresses" which I am now trying. Each alternate address has to be
>>> listed and go through an opt-in process. I believe that addresses in the
>>> same domain must also be registered with them. I will try this tonight.
>>> I do not know how the email comes out of the relay or how many From
>>> addresses I will be allowed. Discovering this information has been like
>>> pulling hen's teeth.
>>>
>>> I tried to set up an alternate SMTP connector and ran into problems. I
>>> will ask about this on a separate thread.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Joe M
>>>
>>> "SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <not@your.nellie> wrote in message
>>> news:%23uZS2GkTIHA.3940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> from google, the 'outgoing mail server' for
>>>> XO Communications mail.njd.xo.com or smtp.concentric.net
>>>>
>>>> Try them as smarthost
>>>>
>>>> "Joe_M" <x24w0cg02@NOsneakSPAMemail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:13nqe3jcbslog2a@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> Still a problem. The ISP (XO Communications) does not offer a Smart
>>>>> Host type of service. Tough to drop them because they also provide web
>>>>> hosting and phones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are third-party services viable for this? Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe M
>>>>>
>>>>> "Kevin Weilbacher" <kw@DELETEkwsupport.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1D1906E2-D3AF-461A-9632-274928C1F246@microsoft.com...
>>>>>> Let us know how it goes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kevin Weilbacher [SBS MVP]
>>>>>> "The days pass by so quickly now, the nights are seldom long"
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Joe_M" <x24w0cg02@NOsneakSPAMemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:13nnkk0omk7r1ab@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>> Thanks John & Kevin for the suggestions. I will pursue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe M
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Kevin Weilbacher" <kw@DELETEkwsupport.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:6FB714C5-E105-4673-89C2-E7F23B41D4C1@microsoft.com...
>>>>>>>>A slightly alternate suggestion si to use both DNS and SmartHost. I
>>>>>>>>generally setup the default SMTP Connector in Exchange on an SBS
>>>>>>>>server to "use DNS", and then set up a secondary SMTP connector
>>>>>>>>using SmartHost.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the SmartHost connector, click on the Address Space tab and
>>>>>>>> enter the specific mail domains (for example yahoo.com) that are
>>>>>>>> being blocked with the default connector.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Kevin Weilbacher [SBS MVP]
>>>>>>>> "The days pass by so quickly now, the nights are seldom long"
>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "John Oliver, Jr. [MVP]" <jcoliverjr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:%23hulnSaRIHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>> Have you considered using Smarthost such as your ISP as opposed to
>>>>>>>>> sending directly using DNS? I recommend a Smarthost these days
>>>>>>>>> since most large ISP's are blocking IP's that are part of a
>>>>>>>>> smaller blocks or subnet. Typically its DSL or Cable IP's, even
>>>>>>>>> business class.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> John Oliver, Jr
>>>>>>>>> MCSE, MCT, CCNA
>>>>>>>>> Exchange MVP 2008
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft Certified Partner
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Joe_M" <x24w0cg02@NOsneakSPAMemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:13mlggl78vulc4b@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>> Suddenly about a month ago, we started having problems sending
>>>>>>>>>> emails to Yahoo.com addresses. These are typically followups to
>>>>>>>>>> telephone inquiries that we get. The intended recipients
>>>>>>>>>> complained about never getting the emails. We have had a few
>>>>>>>>>> problems with Pacific Bell, AT&T, and SBC emails. We are not
>>>>>>>>>> having this problem with outbound emails to other domains.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I set up a test Yahoo email address and found out that test
>>>>>>>>>> emails were getting placed into the spam/bulk folder. I tracked a
>>>>>>>>>> few lost emails (through Exchange System Manager) and found that
>>>>>>>>>> they were all delivered to a Yahoo.com server, sometimes after a
>>>>>>>>>> few hours of retries. My guess is that Yahoo is falsely labelling
>>>>>>>>>> our emails as suspected spam for some reason. My further guess is
>>>>>>>>>> that the Yahoo.com recipients do not know enough to look in their
>>>>>>>>>> spam folders and do not know enough to figure out if they told
>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo Mail to discard suspected spam rather than place it in
>>>>>>>>>> their spam folder.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Our SBS 2000 server sends the emails directly under our domain
>>>>>>>>>> name. We have a fixed IP. I checked the IP against the spam
>>>>>>>>>> blacklists and we were clean. We have an SPF record and Google
>>>>>>>>>> Mail says we pass the SPF test. We do not have anything set up
>>>>>>>>>> for DomainKeys -- I am not sure that we could with SBS/Exchange
>>>>>>>>>> 2000.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone else experienced this problem? Any solutions? Any
>>>>>>>>>> ideas for further diagnosis?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Joe M
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>