Pete
Wed Jan 26 09:22:24 CST 2005
Why is it that every time I get into an Accessibility discussion on the any
of the newsgroups that the moment I post this particular issue, the
conversation dies?
I can't tell you all how frustrating this is. Nobody seems to know the
answer to this question, not even the two people I've spoken to at Microsoft
who are by most standards, accessibility experts.
I mean, this shouldn't be rocket science and it could be easily solved with
clearer and more complete documentation.
Oh well, we may never get an answer to it.
Pete
"Pete Davis" <pdavis68@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oZ-dnTU_6LV6wGjcRVn-sg@giganews.com...
> Actually, I'd be hard pressed to give you a lot of details about it since
> that's part of the problem I'm trying to solve.
>
> The handle won't work because not all AccessibleObject derived classes are
> controls. For example, in a grid, you have the grid itself which is a
> control and the scrollbars are controls. But there are accessible objects
> that represent columns, rows, and cells which aren't controls. These need
> unique IDs of some type.
>
> If it's not built into the implementation of the accessible object, then
> there's no real way to add it.
>
> It's a really strange implementation because the IDs are used in a number
of
> methods. For example, the Control.AccessibilityNotifyClients() is used to
> notify of events related to an accessible object in the control's
hiearchy.
> For example, I would send a AccessibilityNotifyClients() to notify of a
row
> being scrolled out of view. The cell would be identified by a unique ID
> passed to AccessibilityNotifyClient.
>
> The problem is, the ID isn't part of AccessibleObject (or the IAccessible
> interface which is the base for the COM Accessibility stuff). So the
problem
> I'm running into is trying to figure out how to associate the ID that I
pass
> to AccessibilityNotifyClients() with the cell (or even to get the ID for a
> cell).
>
> Unfortunately, it appears there are maybe a handful of people that
> understand this stuff. I've talked to Sara Ford at MS (she's one of the
> Visual Studio Core testers who specializes in Accessibility), but
apparently
> I've stumped her as well and she said she'd pass my question along to
> someone on the accessibility team and that's the last I heard. I know
> they're busy trying to get the next version out, so I suspect it got swept
> under the rug.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> wrote
in
> message news:eGcHlNlAFHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> > Pete and Walt,
> >
> > Can you elaborate on the nature of these unique id's that you need?
I
> > am not too familiar with accessibility, but my thinking is that if you
> need
> > a unique id for a control, just use the handle of the window.
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
> > - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com
> >
> > "Pete Davis" <pdavis68@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:xJWdneOaZv21pGjcRVn-og@giganews.com...
> > > Walt,
> > >
> > > The company I work for is currently adding accessibility support to
> > > custom controls used by our suite of applications. We're finding it
> > > frustratingly difficult to get help for many aspects.
> > >
> > > Since all the controls used in our application are custom, I can't
> > > really
> > > speak to the accessibility issues of the .NET controls, except to say
> that
> > > they are all based on the underlying Windows controls (with a few
> > > exceptions, such as DataGrid, which is entirely .NET).
> > >
> > > That means that anything not supplied by the framework, you're
> probably
> > > going to have to manage yourself by deriving from the base objects and
> > > adding the support, though I'm not sure how you'll handle IDs,
> > > particularly
> > > for simple elements. You should be able to add any unincluded keyboard
> > > support this way, though.
> > >
> > > Does JAWS not use the AccessibleName and AccessibleDescription? If
it
> > > does, then you can set those in your code.
> > >
> > > Actually, we're having a lot of trouble getting information about
how
> to
> > > handle Child IDs in some situations. I've posted to a number of
> newsgroups
> > > (including this one) as well as talked to a few people at Microsoft
and
> > > some
> > > of the Accessibility hardware people and we're still don't have
answers
> > > after a few weeks.
> > >
> > > As for custom controls, if you didn't code them, then it's unlikely
> > > there
> > > will be any accessibility support in them. That's been my experience
so
> > > far.
> > >
> > > If you want to contact me by e-mail, feel free (just remove the
> NOSPAM.
> > > from the e-mail address) and I'll be happy to help where I can.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> > > <waltborders@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1106583327.617493.27130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> Because the blind are unable to use a mouse, keyboard navigation is
> > >> key. A major difficulty is that not all windows forms controls are
> > >> keyboard 'tab-able' or 'arrow-able' or have "tab order".
> > >>
> > >> The application is built and the next step is to create the custom
JAWS
> > >> (Freedom Scientific)screen reader script to read the application.
The
> > >> application uses the accessibility properties for controls provided
by
> > >> C#. JAWS reads properties these fine --using a mouse for access. For
> > >> example, JAWS can read ComboBoxes and DateTimePickers that are placed
> > >> into DataGrid cells without any problem. The problem is the lack of
> > >> keyboard access.
> > >>
> > >> Using Microsoft's accessibility SDK 2.0 tools: AccExplorer32,
> > >> Inspect32, AccEvent32, I can gather a great deal of information. It
> > >> appears that C# controls can not be given individual unique IDs. JAWS
> > >> can navigate to IDs. Is there something that can act like a unique
> > >> identifier? Different classes/objects are simply labeled
> > >> WindowsForms10.Window.8.app3. This is too ambiguous. JAWS has a
> > >> limited number of recognized classes it understands, but a
substitution
> > >> could be made if an unknown class was unique.
> > >>
> > >> What about custom controls? Is there a way to uniquely ID C# custom
> > >> controls? There are many very interesting controls being developed in
> > >> the .NET world, that could be read if there where more identifiers.
> > >> Looking for help at MSDN and the Knowledge Base it seems that there
is
> > >> a significant difference between C# and C/C++ functionality in this
> > >> context.
> > >>
> > >> How can I have keyboard access to my C# windows forms application?
> > >>
> > >> Can anyone offer any tips, or code samples?
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Walt
> > >>
> > >> My environment: C#, Windows Forms, Framework 1.1, VS.NET 2003,
Windows
> > >> 2000 & XP, JAWS 5.0
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>