Win Forms App Code Generation?

I'm new to .NET and somewhat disappointed in the amount of manual work
required to get a simple Win Forms database application built. I'm used to
working with a development environment called "Clarion" (that I'm guessing
you've never heard of), which can take you from data dictionary to fully
functioning application (browse, search, reporting, insert, change, delete,
etc), with only a few mouse clicks. Leaving me time to spend on the more
serious aspects of the application. What's more, the system doesn't abandon
you after the code is generated, but handles design changes.

Anyway, coming from this environment to .NET leaves me wondering if you guys
really do hand-code all your basic database table browse and update forms?
Admittedly I've only been playing with Visual Studio 2003 (and C#) for a
while, but it seems very time consuming. Surely there is a better way?

Let say I gave you a database with 100 tables and said I wanted a Win Forms
application with data entry forms and filterable browse lists on all of
them, including the relevant parent-child relationships, referential
integrity, concurrency chechking, validation "lookups" - the usual bells and
whistles. Is the .NET way to sit down for months and hand-code all this? Or
am I totally missing something?

I've done a web search for code generators and found a couple, but with
little experience with .NET it's hard to tell from the trial versions if
they fit the bill. Neither seem to handle design changes, but are kind of
like complex wizards.

Can anyone offer some pointers, links to sites, tools they used and liked,
books I should read, or a more appropriate approach to take?

Lloyd
Tue Sep 20 00:39:38 CDT 2005

there is a very nice video on database handling:
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/beginner/default.aspx

--
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw
one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war
is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.
Jack Handey.
"Michael Boniwell" <michael@sbss.com.au> wrote in message
news:uK$3oyYvFHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I'm new to .NET and somewhat disappointed in the amount of manual work
> required to get a simple Win Forms database application built. I'm used to
> working with a development environment called "Clarion" (that I'm guessing
> you've never heard of), which can take you from data dictionary to fully
> functioning application (browse, search, reporting, insert, change,
> delete, etc), with only a few mouse clicks. Leaving me time to spend on
> the more serious aspects of the application. What's more, the system
> doesn't abandon you after the code is generated, but handles design
> changes.
>
> Anyway, coming from this environment to .NET leaves me wondering if you
> guys really do hand-code all your basic database table browse and update
> forms? Admittedly I've only been playing with Visual Studio 2003 (and C#)
> for a while, but it seems very time consuming. Surely there is a better
> way?
>
> Let say I gave you a database with 100 tables and said I wanted a Win
> Forms application with data entry forms and filterable browse lists on all
> of them, including the relevant parent-child relationships, referential
> integrity, concurrency chechking, validation "lookups" - the usual bells
> and whistles. Is the .NET way to sit down for months and hand-code all
> this? Or am I totally missing something?
>
> I've done a web search for code generators and found a couple, but with
> little experience with .NET it's hard to tell from the trial versions if
> they fit the bill. Neither seem to handle design changes, but are kind of
> like complex wizards.
>
> Can anyone offer some pointers, links to sites, tools they used and liked,
> books I should read, or a more appropriate approach to take?
>

Alex
Tue Sep 20 05:31:31 CDT 2005

Hi,

It depends. VS2005 will (or should, unless they've removed it) have the
ability to generate forms automatically based on a table structure in a
database, including all underlying code to update/insert/delete records.

The same sort of thing can be achieved with data bound controls & grids etc
in VS2003, however I suspect it's probably a far cry from the Clarion
environment that you're talking about.

I tend to use a small tool I coded for in house use to generate all the
boilerplate DB code based on the design patterns I follow. I prefer to have
more direct manual control over the process anyway, as I've never really
liked the way VS.NET generates commands to manipulate data, it makes too
many assumptions for my tastes.

Regards,
Alex Clark


"Michael Boniwell" <michael@sbss.com.au> wrote in message
news:uK$3oyYvFHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I'm new to .NET and somewhat disappointed in the amount of manual work
> required to get a simple Win Forms database application built. I'm used to
> working with a development environment called "Clarion" (that I'm guessing
> you've never heard of), which can take you from data dictionary to fully
> functioning application (browse, search, reporting, insert, change,
> delete, etc), with only a few mouse clicks. Leaving me time to spend on
> the more serious aspects of the application. What's more, the system
> doesn't abandon you after the code is generated, but handles design
> changes.
>
> Anyway, coming from this environment to .NET leaves me wondering if you
> guys really do hand-code all your basic database table browse and update
> forms? Admittedly I've only been playing with Visual Studio 2003 (and C#)
> for a while, but it seems very time consuming. Surely there is a better
> way?
>
> Let say I gave you a database with 100 tables and said I wanted a Win
> Forms application with data entry forms and filterable browse lists on all
> of them, including the relevant parent-child relationships, referential
> integrity, concurrency chechking, validation "lookups" - the usual bells
> and whistles. Is the .NET way to sit down for months and hand-code all
> this? Or am I totally missing something?
>
> I've done a web search for code generators and found a couple, but with
> little experience with .NET it's hard to tell from the trial versions if
> they fit the bill. Neither seem to handle design changes, but are kind of
> like complex wizards.
>
> Can anyone offer some pointers, links to sites, tools they used and liked,
> books I should read, or a more appropriate approach to take?
>

Colin
Wed Sep 21 23:46:56 CDT 2005

Even with VS2005 it is a far cry from many "4GL" type products, a clear
example of this is the textbox labels that get "auto generated" with a DB
Field drop in VS2005 - this is simple code generation, I would have hoped
that the 'link' between the textbox & label and the DB Field would have
maintained, but no - change the 'caption/label' of the field within the DB
and none of this is propagated back to the form - very disappointing.

You can roll-your-own off course - but it is a shame that even lessons
learnt in Microsofts own backyard (FoxPro/MSAccess etc) could not have been
applied.

Wait until you start writing data query statements. LINQ is a step in the
right direction, but why the database could not be encapsulated as an object
from day 1 - strong queries (syntax checked at design time), strong data
type mapping, UI inheritance based on a schema ... all things that have been
in many products for over 15 years.

- Colin

"Alex Clark" <quanta_xp@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:eMqK55cvFHA.3124@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> It depends. VS2005 will (or should, unless they've removed it) have the
> ability to generate forms automatically based on a table structure in a
> database, including all underlying code to update/insert/delete records.
>
> The same sort of thing can be achieved with data bound controls & grids
etc
> in VS2003, however I suspect it's probably a far cry from the Clarion
> environment that you're talking about.
>
> I tend to use a small tool I coded for in house use to generate all the
> boilerplate DB code based on the design patterns I follow. I prefer to
have
> more direct manual control over the process anyway, as I've never really
> liked the way VS.NET generates commands to manipulate data, it makes too
> many assumptions for my tastes.
>
> Regards,
> Alex Clark
>
>
> "Michael Boniwell" <michael@sbss.com.au> wrote in message
> news:uK$3oyYvFHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > I'm new to .NET and somewhat disappointed in the amount of manual work
> > required to get a simple Win Forms database application built. I'm used
to
> > working with a development environment called "Clarion" (that I'm
guessing
> > you've never heard of), which can take you from data dictionary to fully
> > functioning application (browse, search, reporting, insert, change,
> > delete, etc), with only a few mouse clicks. Leaving me time to spend on
> > the more serious aspects of the application. What's more, the system
> > doesn't abandon you after the code is generated, but handles design
> > changes.
> >
> > Anyway, coming from this environment to .NET leaves me wondering if you
> > guys really do hand-code all your basic database table browse and update
> > forms? Admittedly I've only been playing with Visual Studio 2003 (and
C#)
> > for a while, but it seems very time consuming. Surely there is a better
> > way?
> >
> > Let say I gave you a database with 100 tables and said I wanted a Win
> > Forms application with data entry forms and filterable browse lists on
all
> > of them, including the relevant parent-child relationships, referential
> > integrity, concurrency chechking, validation "lookups" - the usual bells
> > and whistles. Is the .NET way to sit down for months and hand-code all
> > this? Or am I totally missing something?
> >
> > I've done a web search for code generators and found a couple, but with
> > little experience with .NET it's hard to tell from the trial versions if
> > they fit the bill. Neither seem to handle design changes, but are kind
of
> > like complex wizards.
> >
> > Can anyone offer some pointers, links to sites, tools they used and
liked,
> > books I should read, or a more appropriate approach to take?
> >
>
>

Lloyd
Thu Sep 22 08:56:40 CDT 2005

> Even with VS2005 it is a far cry from many "4GL" type products, a clear

yes, because it's a 3GL product.
it's not intended to be a 4GL.
with these product you usually lost in flexibility what you gain in power.

But Microsoft does release a product targetted to your needs, it's called
InfoPath
you could find it in Office, give it a try ;-)
http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/default.aspx