I have a small-medium sized Access application that is poorly written. My
choices are to either rewrite large parts of the Access app so that it
functions reasonably well, or to convert the whole thing to .NET.

Not being an Access developer, the .NET approach seems most natural, but I
want to do the right thing for the client (even if I end up giving away the
contract). I posted on the Access forum and got the impression that my
fears about Access being an unstable piece of junk were unfounded, and that
most of the things that need to be done in this type of application could be
done quickly and easily in Access and the rest could be coded as one would
do in any other environment (just have to give up the "free" things that
Access provides).

Does anyone have any experience with this type of conversion? I would be
interested in your thoughts.

Alfredo

Re: Convert Access application to .NET? by Brian

Brian
Tue Jun 22 02:26:52 CDT 2004

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C45800.61122580
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Been there done that. Access is not an unstable platform if written =
properly. The issues I had were that it was not written as should be. =
Little error handling, no commenting and work around out the ..... The =
other issue is that you either had to have access or use the redist =
package. This was fine until you had more than one application, one that =
took 97, one that took 2000 and the problems just kept coming. I have =
been in both worlds. Access is easier to deploy rapidly, reports are =
fast and easy and database is easy to work with. .Net is more robust and =
growth, IMHO, is easier to work with. .Net is also a full blown program =
vb or c#. If you need real secure database or web then to me there is =
no question.

We decided to convert the whole app to .Net. At first, we used an access =
backend but moved up to SQL. The problems with fixes, data corruption =
and instability went away. It is an application now that gets used.=20

--=20
Brian P. Hammer
"aualias" <aualias@newsgroups.nospam> wrote in message =
news:u4pzMF9VEHA.2544@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
I have a small-medium sized Access application that is poorly written. =
My
choices are to either rewrite large parts of the Access app so that it
functions reasonably well, or to convert the whole thing to .NET.

Not being an Access developer, the .NET approach seems most natural, =
but I
want to do the right thing for the client (even if I end up giving =
away the
contract). I posted on the Access forum and got the impression that =
my
fears about Access being an unstable piece of junk were unfounded, and =
that
most of the things that need to be done in this type of application =
could be
done quickly and easily in Access and the rest could be coded as one =
would
do in any other environment (just have to give up the "free" things =
that
Access provides).

Does anyone have any experience with this type of conversion? I would =
be
interested in your thoughts.

Alfredo




------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C45800.61122580
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Been there done that.&nbsp; Access is not an =
unstable=20
platform if written properly. The issues I had were that it was not =
written as=20
should be. Little error handling, no commenting and work around out the=20
.....&nbsp; The other issue is that you either had to have access or use =
the=20
redist package. This was fine until you had more than one application, =
one that=20
took 97, one that took 2000 and the problems just kept coming. I have =
been in=20
both worlds. Access is easier to deploy rapidly, reports are fast and =
easy and=20
database is easy to work with. .Net is more robust and growth, IMHO, is =
easier=20
to work with.&nbsp; .Net is also a full blown program vb or c#.&nbsp; If =
you=20
need real secure database or web then to me there is no =
question.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>We decided to convert the whole app to .Net. At =
first, we=20
used an access backend but moved up to SQL. The problems with fixes, =
data=20
corruption and instability went away. It is an application now that gets =
used.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>Brian P. Hammer</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"aualias" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:aualias@newsgroups.nospam">aualias@newsgroups.nospam</A>&g=
t;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:u4pzMF9VEHA.2544@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl">news:u4pzMF9VEHA.2544=
@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl</A>...</DIV>I=20
have a small-medium sized Access application that is poorly =
written.&nbsp;=20
My<BR>choices are to either rewrite large parts of the Access app so =
that=20
it<BR>functions reasonably well, or to convert the whole thing to=20
.NET.<BR><BR>Not being an Access developer, the .NET approach seems =
most=20
natural, but I<BR>want to do the right thing for the client (even if I =
end up=20
giving away the<BR>contract).&nbsp; I posted on the Access forum and =
got the=20
impression that my<BR>fears about Access being an unstable piece of =
junk were=20
unfounded, and that<BR>most of the things that need to be done in this =
type of=20
application could be<BR>done quickly and easily in Access and the rest =
could=20
be coded as one would<BR>do in any other environment (just have to =
give up the=20
"free" things that<BR>Access provides).<BR><BR>Does anyone have any =
experience=20
with this type of conversion?&nbsp; I would be<BR>interested in your=20
thoughts.<BR><BR>Alfredo<BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C45800.61122580--


Re: Convert Access application to .NET? by aualias

aualias
Tue Jun 22 11:16:29 CDT 2004

Brian,

Interesting last sentence... My client complains that the application does
not get used.

This application is poorly written, but I have just picked up Access to do a
few "simple" jobs. I am learning as I go and the client does not want to
spend lots of money (and thinks things can just get done - in hours, if not
minutes). Slowly, they are beginning to understand; when I started my main
contact there blurted out, "Code?? What are you talking about? There is no
code!". I had to show her a code window.

Basically, I'm a C++ developer, now doing most things in C#. Rewriting the
whole thing in Access would mean that I would have to learn Access better
than I do now (not difficult, but there is a substantial learning curve and
I would have to eat the time). However, it is most likely that only parts
would really need to be rewritten. They can live with the less than great
functionality. The people on the Access forum think it would be crazy to
convert.

It is a difficult decision. I am not sure if they can justify the expense.
On the other hand, I believe they would be happier in the long run if they
had a Windows Forms app. We could put the database on a web service and
they could access everything from home. And, of course, I like the control
that a real programming language gives. I was sold on sticking with Access,
but now I'm backsliding...

Could you tell me what specific problems caused you to switch to SQL Server?
I had assumed that the instability came from the UI, not the database.
Also, do you know how Crystal Reports compares to the reports in Access.

Thanks for the reply.

Alfredo



"Brian P. Hammer" <bphammer@email.uophx.edu> wrote in message
news:#ZfVRqCWEHA.2844@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Been there done that. Access is not an unstable platform if written
properly. The issues I had were that it was not written as should be. Little
error handling, no commenting and work around out the ..... The other issue
is that you either had to have access or use the redist package. This was
fine until you had more than one application, one that took 97, one that
took 2000 and the problems just kept coming. I have been in both worlds.
Access is easier to deploy rapidly, reports are fast and easy and database
is easy to work with. .Net is more robust and growth, IMHO, is easier to
work with. .Net is also a full blown program vb or c#. If you need real
secure database or web then to me there is no question.

We decided to convert the whole app to .Net. At first, we used an access
backend but moved up to SQL. The problems with fixes, data corruption and
instability went away. It is an application now that gets used.

--
Brian P. Hammer
"aualias" <aualias@newsgroups.nospam> wrote in message
news:u4pzMF9VEHA.2544@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
I have a small-medium sized Access application that is poorly written. My
choices are to either rewrite large parts of the Access app so that it
functions reasonably well, or to convert the whole thing to .NET.

Not being an Access developer, the .NET approach seems most natural, but I
want to do the right thing for the client (even if I end up giving away
the
contract). I posted on the Access forum and got the impression that my
fears about Access being an unstable piece of junk were unfounded, and
that
most of the things that need to be done in this type of application could
be
done quickly and easily in Access and the rest could be coded as one would
do in any other environment (just have to give up the "free" things that
Access provides).

Does anyone have any experience with this type of conversion? I would be
interested in your thoughts.

Alfredo






RE: Convert Access application to .NET? by v-yiy

v-yiy
Wed Jun 23 04:58:53 CDT 2004

Hi Alfredo,

You need write your own code to implement the features that Access
provided, if you convert the Access aplication to .NET.
Also, I think you need use ADO.NET to interact with database and
Databinding to interact with UI, so it would be better to get a good
understanding about these two fields before making decision. Since the
architecure of windows forms databinding is different to the databinding in
Access, you may need write some test project to detemine if every feature
in the application could be implemented easily in .NET or at least could be
implemented without much difficult.

Here is an roadmap of windowsforms databinding and ADO.NET:

<313482 - INFO: Roadmap for Windows Forms Data Binding>
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;313482

<313590 - INFO: Roadmap for ADO.NET>
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?sd=msdn&scid=kb;en-us;313590


If you found any problem in implementing a certain feature in .NET, please
feel free to post it in this group.

Thanks!

Best regards,

Ying-Shen Yu [MSFT]
Microsoft Community Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
This mail should not be replied directly, please remove the word "online"
before sending mail.


Re: Convert Access application to .NET? by aualias

aualias
Wed Jun 23 08:30:14 CDT 2004

Hi Ying-Shen,

I am well aware that I have to write my own code and am familiar with
ADO.NET.

The databinding in Access is basically "free", while you have to write some
code with .NET. Relations would be a little more time to setup. I do not
see this as terribly time consuming in the big picture (perhaps a couple of
hours more work). However, this "free" databinding comes at a cost; when
you have a table or query behind a form every change is committed to the
database. Does this reasoning sound correct?

.NET would give me far more control over when to commit the changes to the
database. The client is having problems when they make mistakes and do not
wish to save. This would be a great advantage, as I was thinking of
creating local tables for doing the work and then committing the data to the
real tables when the user wished to save.

One of my concerns is the reports. Do you know if Crystal Reports works as
easily as the reports built into Access? My guess is no, but I do not know
if they are a lot or just a little bit more work.

Assuming a complete rewrite of the application, and not being very familiar
with Access, I am having a difficult time assessing the "free" features of
Access vs. writing what seems to me to be a little code to duplicate the
functionality. The people on the Access forum believe that a conversion to
.NET would be a waste. The more I think about it, I do not see a huge time
savings by doing Access. Am I missing something here?

Thanks.

AU




""Ying-Shen Yu[MSFT]"" <v-yiy@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Q$MZ4iQWEHA.2980@cpmsftngxa10.phx.gbl...
> Hi Alfredo,
>
> You need write your own code to implement the features that Access
> provided, if you convert the Access aplication to .NET.
> Also, I think you need use ADO.NET to interact with database and
> Databinding to interact with UI, so it would be better to get a good
> understanding about these two fields before making decision. Since the
> architecure of windows forms databinding is different to the databinding
in
> Access, you may need write some test project to detemine if every feature
> in the application could be implemented easily in .NET or at least could
be
> implemented without much difficult.
>
> Here is an roadmap of windowsforms databinding and ADO.NET:
>
> <313482 - INFO: Roadmap for Windows Forms Data Binding>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;313482
>
> <313590 - INFO: Roadmap for ADO.NET>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?sd=msdn&scid=kb;en-us;313590
>
>
> If you found any problem in implementing a certain feature in .NET, please
> feel free to post it in this group.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ying-Shen Yu [MSFT]
> Microsoft Community Support
> Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
> This mail should not be replied directly, please remove the word "online"
> before sending mail.
>



Re: Convert Access application to .NET? by v-yiy

v-yiy
Wed Jun 23 23:03:12 CDT 2004

Hi aulias,

>>
.NET would give me far more control over when to commit the changes to the
database.
>>

I agree, The databinding in Access is bound to the column on the data table
, while .NET windows forms databinding is bound to a column in Data Table
object,
Crystal Report service is not a MS product, I'm not very familiar with it,
maybe you can describe you requirements about the report and ask the guys
in Crystal Report programming forums. They may give you some idea about how
it could be done using Crystal Report, and at least you are free to choose
other report tools to generate report.

IMO, the opinion of Access foumn people's is Access is good and capable for
this application, so you needn't develop it in .NET and write code to
"re-invent the wheel", which does not mean it's difficult to implement the
Access features you need, right?

Best regards,

Ying-Shen Yu [MSFT]
Microsoft Community Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
This mail should not be replied directly, please remove the word "online"
before sending mail.


Re: Convert Access application to .NET? by aualias

aualias
Thu Jun 24 08:26:00 CDT 2004

Ying-Shen,

Thanks for your comments. As far as I can see there is nothing that Access
gives "free" that makes up for the control you get programming in C#. I
think that this will come down to the client's ability to pay for (and need)
to do a new application from the ground up. If it is a new application, I
will probably recommend .NET. If they can live with most of the messed up
functionality, then a rewrite of a portion of the Access code will be the
way to go.

And, as for Crystal Reports, I could just try it. :-)

AU


""Ying-Shen Yu[MSFT]"" <v-yiy@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Scil0AaWEHA.2764@cpmsftngxa10.phx.gbl...
> Hi aulias,
>
> >>
> NET would give me far more control over when to commit the changes to the
> database.
> >>
>
> I agree, The databinding in Access is bound to the column on the data
table
> , while .NET windows forms databinding is bound to a column in Data Table
> object,
> Crystal Report service is not a MS product, I'm not very familiar with it,
> maybe you can describe you requirements about the report and ask the guys
> in Crystal Report programming forums. They may give you some idea about
how
> it could be done using Crystal Report, and at least you are free to
choose
> other report tools to generate report.
>
> IMO, the opinion of Access foumn people's is Access is good and capable
for
> this application, so you needn't develop it in .NET and write code to
> "re-invent the wheel", which does not mean it's difficult to implement the
> Access features you need, right?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ying-Shen Yu [MSFT]
> Microsoft Community Support
> Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
> This mail should not be replied directly, please remove the word "online"
> before sending mail.
>



Re: Convert Access application to .NET? by Brian

Brian
Sat Jul 03 00:20:17 CDT 2004

Sorry, I lost this post. I hope you still get it.

The size of the database was the main reason. With an increased size (about
7500 records with a total of 500 fields) you get slower and slower. About
once a week, we were having to recreate the database because of corruption.
There was also a need to get better verification of record locks and writes.
With Access, a couple of users is no problem, but at times, there were 15 or
so and it just came to a dead halt.

Crystal is much more powerful than Access. I don't use it. I use the one
from Component One, mainly because it allowed me to easily import the 25 or
so reports.

--
BRIAN HAMMER
"aualias" <aualias@newsgroups.nospam> wrote in message
news:exdEIRHWEHA.644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Brian,
>
> Interesting last sentence... My client complains that the application
does
> not get used.
>
> This application is poorly written, but I have just picked up Access to do
a
> few "simple" jobs. I am learning as I go and the client does not want to
> spend lots of money (and thinks things can just get done - in hours, if
not
> minutes). Slowly, they are beginning to understand; when I started my
main
> contact there blurted out, "Code?? What are you talking about? There is
no
> code!". I had to show her a code window.
>
> Basically, I'm a C++ developer, now doing most things in C#. Rewriting
the
> whole thing in Access would mean that I would have to learn Access better
> than I do now (not difficult, but there is a substantial learning curve
and
> I would have to eat the time). However, it is most likely that only parts
> would really need to be rewritten. They can live with the less than great
> functionality. The people on the Access forum think it would be crazy to
> convert.
>
> It is a difficult decision. I am not sure if they can justify the
expense.
> On the other hand, I believe they would be happier in the long run if they
> had a Windows Forms app. We could put the database on a web service and
> they could access everything from home. And, of course, I like the
control
> that a real programming language gives. I was sold on sticking with
Access,
> but now I'm backsliding...
>
> Could you tell me what specific problems caused you to switch to SQL
Server?
> I had assumed that the instability came from the UI, not the database.
> Also, do you know how Crystal Reports compares to the reports in Access.
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Alfredo
>
>
>
> "Brian P. Hammer" <bphammer@email.uophx.edu> wrote in message
> news:#ZfVRqCWEHA.2844@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Been there done that. Access is not an unstable platform if written
> properly. The issues I had were that it was not written as should be.
Little
> error handling, no commenting and work around out the ..... The other
issue
> is that you either had to have access or use the redist package. This was
> fine until you had more than one application, one that took 97, one that
> took 2000 and the problems just kept coming. I have been in both worlds.
> Access is easier to deploy rapidly, reports are fast and easy and database
> is easy to work with. .Net is more robust and growth, IMHO, is easier to
> work with. .Net is also a full blown program vb or c#. If you need real
> secure database or web then to me there is no question.
>
> We decided to convert the whole app to .Net. At first, we used an access
> backend but moved up to SQL. The problems with fixes, data corruption and
> instability went away. It is an application now that gets used.
>
> --
> Brian P. Hammer
> "aualias" <aualias@newsgroups.nospam> wrote in message
> news:u4pzMF9VEHA.2544@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I have a small-medium sized Access application that is poorly written.
My
> choices are to either rewrite large parts of the Access app so that it
> functions reasonably well, or to convert the whole thing to .NET.
>
> Not being an Access developer, the .NET approach seems most natural, but
I
> want to do the right thing for the client (even if I end up giving away
> the
> contract). I posted on the Access forum and got the impression that my
> fears about Access being an unstable piece of junk were unfounded, and
> that
> most of the things that need to be done in this type of application
could
> be
> done quickly and easily in Access and the rest could be coded as one
would
> do in any other environment (just have to give up the "free" things that
> Access provides).
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this type of conversion? I would
be
> interested in your thoughts.
>
> Alfredo
>
>
>
>
>