top-posting

I have read the term top-posting twice now so I looked it up to see what it
was.
I gather some here frown on top-posting and would prefer bottom-posting?
When scanning through the posts, it seems to be a mixed bag.

So, is there an etiquette here on how to post?
If there is, I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.
I had a quick look through the options and help and couldn't find any way to
change its settings so I'm wondering how others deal with it.
If it's not an issue, then I won't bother because I actually prefer
top-posting.

Regards,
Ron Francis
www.RonaldFrancis.com

Ali
Tue Jun 19 22:34:16 CDT 2007

On Jun 19, 7:13 pm, "Ron Francis" <rfran...@senet.com.au> wrote:
> I have read the term top-posting twice now so I looked it up to see what it
> was.
> I gather some here frown on top-posting and would prefer bottom-posting?
> When scanning through the posts, it seems to be a mixed bag.
>
> So, is there an etiquette here on how to post?
> If there is, I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.
> I had a quick look through the options and help and couldn't find any way to
> change its settings so I'm wondering how others deal with it.
> If it's not an issue, then I won't bother because I actually prefer
> top-posting.
>
> Regards,
> Ron Franciswww.RonaldFrancis.com

It depends from place to place. I know some places where folks might
get crazy because of top-posting.

Snip:
>So, is there an etiquette here on how to post? If there is, I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.
I think people here are just fine with top-posting;) BTW , you can
use 'Ctrl+End' buttons on your keyboard to get at the bottom of your
email.

ali

Tom
Wed Jun 20 00:29:53 CDT 2007

I think you'll find we're a diverse lot here. I came out as a top poster a
few years back and my life has been so much better since. I hated
pretending for the sake of being accepted. I feel so much better since I've
just become myself.

Sometimes, for fun, I even post inline... I was born to be wild :o)

Tom

"Ron Francis" <rfrancis@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:%23LmsIBusHHA.2340@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I have read the term top-posting twice now so I looked it up to see what it
>was.
> I gather some here frown on top-posting and would prefer bottom-posting?
> When scanning through the posts, it seems to be a mixed bag.
>
> So, is there an etiquette here on how to post?
> If there is, I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.
> I had a quick look through the options and help and couldn't find any way
> to change its settings so I'm wondering how others deal with it.
> If it's not an issue, then I won't bother because I actually prefer
> top-posting.
>
> Regards,
> Ron Francis
> www.RonaldFrancis.com

Tom
Wed Jun 20 00:31:06 CDT 2007

Hi Ali,

That presumes you are opening each email and not just reading it in the
preview pane....

Tom

"Ali" <abdulrazaq@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182310456.766619.67650@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> I think people here are just fine with top-posting;) BTW , you can
> use 'Ctrl+End' buttons on your keyboard to get at the bottom of your
> email.

Ali
Wed Jun 20 01:47:50 CDT 2007

On Jun 19, 10:31 pm, "Tom Serface" <tom.nos...@camaswood.com> wrote:
> Hi Ali,
>
> That presumes you are opening each email and not just reading it in the
> preview pane....
>
> Tom
>
> "Ali" <abdulra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1182310456.766619.67650@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I think people here are just fine with top-posting;) BTW , you can
> > use 'Ctrl+End' buttons on your keyboard to get at the bottom of your
> > email.

Hello Tom! Cann't get your point;-)


ali

Ulrich
Wed Jun 20 02:23:57 CDT 2007

Ron Francis wrote:
> I have read the term top-posting twice now so I looked it up to see what
> it was.
> I gather some here frown on top-posting and would prefer bottom-posting?

Not just here, but on the whole Usenet.

> When scanning through the posts, it seems to be a mixed bag.

True, but many noobs even think about it and just type away wherever their
newsclient positions the cursor.

> So, is there an etiquette here on how to post?

The only agreed one is probably to make you postings understandable. For
that it is useful to relate to exactly that part which you are referring
to. Quoting that part and putting your statements underneath makes it next
to impossible to misunderstand the context those statements are made in,
which is why posting inline and trimming unnecessary context is just
convenient. You can however achieve a reasonable amount of
understandability without quoting any text at all, too, but then you might
have to repeat what it said in your own words to get the required context.

How to post is not just a matter of personal taste like the preferred
icecream but about communication efficiency!

> If there is, I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.

No it doesn't, it is always the user that does! ;)
Seriously, it only positions the cursor on top, so you can go through the
posting in the normal reading order, trim unnecessary content and insert
you own answers.


Uli

Alex
Wed Jun 20 05:33:34 CDT 2007

Ron Francis wrote:
> [...] I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.

Outlook Express can be configured for bottom posting. Look
here in the section "Replies to newsgroup messages are added
to the top of your message, or the signature is added under
the reply text, or both":

KB886340 - "List of Outlook Express fixes that are in
Windows XP Service Pack 2 and in Windows XP PC Tablet
Edition 2005"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/886340/


Alex

David
Wed Jun 20 07:44:22 CDT 2007


"Ron Francis" <rfrancis@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:%23LmsIBusHHA.2340@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

>I have read the term top-posting twice now so I looked it up to see what it
>was.

A lot of people don't like top-posting, and it isn't always appropriate in
places like this when multi-faceted questions appear.

> I gather some here frown on top-posting and would prefer bottom-posting?

Again bottom posting is not always good either.

> When scanning through the posts, it seems to be a mixed bag.
> So, is there an etiquette here on how to post?

It is often best (I find) to answer questions referring to any given
statement in a post, immediateky below that statement. This also encourages
one to snip the irrelevant parts which one is not answering. This last can
often make replies much clearer!

> If there is, I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.
> I had a quick look through the options and help and couldn't find any way
> to change its settings...

There's always the arrow keys and the delete button!

[My ellipsis indicates that there was more of your post that I haven't
quoted.]

Dave
--
David Webber
Author of 'Mozart the Music Processor'
http://www.mozart.co.uk
For discussion/support see
http://www.mozart.co.uk/mzusers/mailinglist.htm

Tom
Wed Jun 20 09:14:23 CDT 2007

Hi Ali,

If you just click down to the next item (in Windows Mail) it shows you the
mail in the bottom or side pane (wherever you have it located), but Ctrl+End
doesn't do anything unless you click in the actual message pane. Not a big
deal... just a fine point.

Tom

"Ali" <abdulrazaq@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182322070.425285.279730@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 19, 10:31 pm, "Tom Serface" <tom.nos...@camaswood.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ali,
>>
>> That presumes you are opening each email and not just reading it in the
>> preview pane....
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> "Ali" <abdulra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1182310456.766619.67650@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > I think people here are just fine with top-posting;) BTW , you can
>> > use 'Ctrl+End' buttons on your keyboard to get at the bottom of your
>> > email.
>
> Hello Tom! Cann't get your point;-)
>
>
> ali
>

Alexander
Wed Jun 20 11:38:15 CDT 2007

I think Ali meant to use ctrl-End when replying...

--
=====================================
Alexander Nickolov
Microsoft MVP [VC], MCSD
email: agnickolov@mvps.org
MVP VC FAQ: http://vcfaq.mvps.org
=====================================

"Tom Serface" <tom.nospam@camaswood.com> wrote in message
news:A90C0F33-8915-4BA0-9B0C-1E91F5E688A0@microsoft.com...
> Hi Ali,
>
> If you just click down to the next item (in Windows Mail) it shows you the
> mail in the bottom or side pane (wherever you have it located), but
> Ctrl+End doesn't do anything unless you click in the actual message pane.
> Not a big deal... just a fine point.
>
> Tom
>
> "Ali" <abdulrazaq@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1182322070.425285.279730@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 19, 10:31 pm, "Tom Serface" <tom.nos...@camaswood.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ali,
>>>
>>> That presumes you are opening each email and not just reading it in the
>>> preview pane....
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> "Ali" <abdulra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:1182310456.766619.67650@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> > I think people here are just fine with top-posting;) BTW , you can
>>> > use 'Ctrl+End' buttons on your keyboard to get at the bottom of your
>>> > email.
>>
>> Hello Tom! Cann't get your point;-)
>>
>>
>> ali
>>
>

Alexander
Wed Jun 20 11:47:54 CDT 2007

Personally I hate bottom-posting, since you always need to scroll
down to see the reply. Much less efficient for me. I understand
that is the traditional UseNet format...

--
=====================================
Alexander Nickolov
Microsoft MVP [VC], MCSD
email: agnickolov@mvps.org
MVP VC FAQ: http://vcfaq.mvps.org
=====================================

"Ron Francis" <rfrancis@senet.com.au> wrote in message
news:%23LmsIBusHHA.2340@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I have read the term top-posting twice now so I looked it up to see what it
>was.
> I gather some here frown on top-posting and would prefer bottom-posting?
> When scanning through the posts, it seems to be a mixed bag.
>
> So, is there an etiquette here on how to post?
> If there is, I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.
> I had a quick look through the options and help and couldn't find any way
> to change its settings so I'm wondering how others deal with it.
> If it's not an issue, then I won't bother because I actually prefer
> top-posting.
>
> Regards,
> Ron Francis
> www.RonaldFrancis.com
>
>
>

Ali
Wed Jun 20 12:06:33 CDT 2007

On Jun 20, 9:38 am, "Alexander Nickolov" <agnicko...@mvps.org> wrote:
> I think Ali meant to use ctrl-End when replying...
>
> --
> =====================================
> Alexander Nickolov
> Microsoft MVP [VC], MCSD
> email: agnicko...@mvps.org
> MVP VC FAQ:http://vcfaq.mvps.org
> =====================================
>
> "Tom Serface" <tom.nos...@camaswood.com> wrote in message
>
> news:A90C0F33-8915-4BA0-9B0C-1E91F5E688A0@microsoft.com...
>
> > Hi Ali,
>
> > If you just click down to the next item (in Windows Mail) it shows you the
> > mail in the bottom or side pane (wherever you have it located), but
> > Ctrl+End doesn't do anything unless you click in the actual message pane.
> > Not a big deal... just a fine point.
>
> > Tom
>
> > "Ali" <abdulra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1182322070.425285.279730@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Jun 19, 10:31 pm, "Tom Serface" <tom.nos...@camaswood.com> wrote:
> >>> Hi Ali,
>
> >>> That presumes you are opening each email and not just reading it in the
> >>> preview pane....
>
> >>> Tom
>
> >>> "Ali" <abdulra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>news:1182310456.766619.67650@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> > I think people here are just fine with top-posting;) BTW , you can
> >>> > use 'Ctrl+End' buttons on your keyboard to get at the bottom of your
> >>> > email.
>
> >> Hello Tom! Cann't get your point;-)
>
> >> ali



Well, certainly i meant Ctrl+End when replying ;)


Cheers,
ali

Ali
Wed Jun 20 12:15:58 CDT 2007

On Jun 20, 9:47 am, "Alexander Nickolov" <agnicko...@mvps.org> wrote:
> Personally I hate bottom-posting, since you always need to scroll
> down to see the reply. Much less efficient for me. I understand
> that is the traditional UseNet format...
>
> --
> =====================================
> Alexander Nickolov
> Microsoft MVP [VC], MCSD
> email: agnicko...@mvps.org
> MVP VC FAQ:http://vcfaq.mvps.org
> =====================================
>
> "Ron Francis" <rfran...@senet.com.au> wrote in message
>
> news:%23LmsIBusHHA.2340@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
> >I have read the term top-posting twice now so I looked it up to see what it
> >was.
> > I gather some here frown on top-posting and would prefer bottom-posting?
> > When scanning through the posts, it seems to be a mixed bag.
>
> > So, is there an etiquette here on how to post?
> > If there is, I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.
> > I had a quick look through the options and help and couldn't find any way
> > to change its settings so I'm wondering how others deal with it.
> > If it's not an issue, then I won't bother because I actually prefer
> > top-posting.
>
> > Regards,
> > Ron Francis
> >www.RonaldFrancis.com

Good one!

Yes , it is indeed subject to personal choice and kinda custom of
forum. For example, microsoft.public.development.device.drivers is
quite busy place with 1000 posts average per month and folks do bottom-
posting all the time. Where people at another place
[ comp.arch.embedded ] with good posting are damn strict when it comes
to top-posting. IMO, does not matter a lot as far as original content
is included and proper quotes are available.

ali

Tom
Wed Jun 20 14:00:33 CDT 2007

Ah, that makes sense. My beef isn't so much with replying, it's more with
reading the responses. I like to read what others have responded and not
duplicate what some others have already suggested whenever possible. I hate
reading through 10 replies that say "Just add 1". Having to scroll to the
bottom of the original question makes that more difficult to get through.
I wonder why Windows Mail doesn't have an option for the reading panel to
always position at the end. That would make it much easier to read
bottom-posts imo.

Tom

"Alexander Nickolov" <agnickolov@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23nKFnl1sHHA.1728@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I think Ali meant to use ctrl-End when replying...
>
> --
> =====================================
> Alexander Nickolov
> Microsoft MVP [VC], MCSD
> email: agnickolov@mvps.org
> MVP VC FAQ: http://vcfaq.mvps.org
> =====================================

Tom
Wed Jun 20 14:04:22 CDT 2007

Yeah, that makes sense. However, to read your response to the previous
message I had to roll my mouse wheel 4 times to get to the bottom :o) I
know... I'm just lazy.

Tom

"Ali" <abdulrazaq@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182359193.640661.271640@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

>
> Well, certainly i meant Ctrl+End when replying ;)
>
>
> Cheers,
> ali
>
>

Tamas
Thu Jun 21 13:13:03 CDT 2007

Tom Serface wrote:
> Yeah, that makes sense. However, to read your response to the previous
> message I had to roll my mouse wheel 4 times to get to the bottom :o) I
> know... I'm just lazy.

Of course, because Ali quoted two days worth of conversation just to add
a single line to it. You have a very good point. If the reply is not
visible on my screen, I'm just wasting time scrolling to the end, even
on a large 24" screen.

I would prefer if bottom-posters trimmed their quotes. I bottom post
myself, but those who insist on quoting 500 lines would be better off
top-posting.

At the same time, I also blame newsreader programs for not implementing
collapsible quote blocks. Come on, how hard is it to implement a [+]
icon, like in code fold? News/mail clients should be intelligent enough
to trim large quote block by default, showing a [+] icon in case someone
needs to see the full quote block.

Tom

>
> Tom

MrAsm
Thu Jun 21 13:31:50 CDT 2007

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:13:03 -0700, Tamas Demjen <tdemjen@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I would prefer if bottom-posters trimmed their quotes. I bottom post
>myself, but those who insist on quoting 500 lines would be better off
>top-posting.

I completely agree.

MrAsm

Tom
Thu Jun 21 16:05:05 CDT 2007

Great point and I hope they are reading this for the next release of Windows
Mail :o)

Tom

"Tamas Demjen" <tdemjen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u8dfV$CtHHA.4548@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> At the same time, I also blame newsreader programs for not implementing
> collapsible quote blocks. Come on, how hard is it to implement a [+] icon,
> like in code fold? News/mail clients should be intelligent enough to trim
> large quote block by default, showing a [+] icon in case someone needs to
> see the full quote block.
>
> Tom

Ben
Thu Jun 21 17:49:34 CDT 2007



> At the same time, I also blame newsreader programs for not implementing
> collapsible quote blocks. Come on, how hard is it to implement a [+]
> icon, like in code fold? News/mail clients should be intelligent enough
> to trim large quote block by default, showing a [+] icon in case someone
> needs to see the full quote block.

Google does this, in e-mail and I believe also newsreading.

Ron
Wed Jun 20 19:24:36 CDT 2007

Now here is the problem.
Take a look at the sequence of previous posts below.
The only way you can decode the sequence is to see how many >>s there are in
front of each post.

Regards,
Ron Francis
www.RonaldFrancis.com


"Ali" <abdulrazaq@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182359758.339684.246630@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 20, 9:47 am, "Alexander Nickolov" <agnicko...@mvps.org> wrote:
>> Personally I hate bottom-posting, since you always need to scroll
>> down to see the reply. Much less efficient for me. I understand
>> that is the traditional UseNet format...
>>
>> --
>> =====================================
>> Alexander Nickolov
>> Microsoft MVP [VC], MCSD
>> email: agnicko...@mvps.org
>> MVP VC FAQ:http://vcfaq.mvps.org
>> =====================================
>>
>> "Ron Francis" <rfran...@senet.com.au> wrote in message
>>
>> news:%23LmsIBusHHA.2340@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>
>> >I have read the term top-posting twice now so I looked it up to see what
>> >it
>> >was.
>> > I gather some here frown on top-posting and would prefer
>> > bottom-posting?
>> > When scanning through the posts, it seems to be a mixed bag.
>>
>> > So, is there an etiquette here on how to post?
>> > If there is, I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.
>> > I had a quick look through the options and help and couldn't find any
>> > way
>> > to change its settings so I'm wondering how others deal with it.
>> > If it's not an issue, then I won't bother because I actually prefer
>> > top-posting.
>>
>> > Regards,
>> > Ron Francis
>> >www.RonaldFrancis.com
>
> Good one!
>
> Yes , it is indeed subject to personal choice and kinda custom of
> forum. For example, microsoft.public.development.device.drivers is
> quite busy place with 1000 posts average per month and folks do bottom-
> posting all the time. Where people at another place
> [ comp.arch.embedded ] with good posting are damn strict when it comes
> to top-posting. IMO, does not matter a lot as far as original content
> is included and proper quotes are available.
>
> ali
>
>

And just to be funny ... I thought I'd post here as well.

Ron
Thu Jun 21 08:53:33 CDT 2007

>> I use Email Express, and by default, it top-posts.
>
> No it doesn't, it is always the user that does! ;)
> Seriously, it only positions the cursor on top, so you can go through the
> posting in the normal reading order, trim unnecessary content and insert
> you own answers.

Well I guess you are right there to some extent.
Email Express places the cursor at the top, but also puts your default
signature above the previous posts as well.

Interestingly, from memory, I think Wilkipedia says that inline posting is
the least favoured.

I think the main problem is the lack of consistency, resulting in the
previous posts getting jumbled.

Ron.

Ali
Fri Jun 22 13:03:51 CDT 2007

I.C.

What is happening here, nah! wont say its another flame but seems so;)
people are posting and posting by people , some are doing top-posting
in response to bottom-posting along with the folks who are immune to
inline posting.

Anyway, as far as it gets, yeah, IMHO, it should be fine if original
poster can get some positive responses.



ali

Ron
Fri Jun 22 18:58:09 CDT 2007

Yep, I've come to the conclusion that there is no dominant method here,
except obviously to make the intensions of posts clear to the reader.

Cheers.

PS. "nah! wont say its another flame but seems so;)"
I'm not familiar with that term.

Regards,
Ron Francis
www.RonaldFrancis.com


"Ali" <abdulrazaq@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182535431.016507.253630@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> I.C.
>
> What is happening here, nah! wont say its another flame but seems so;)
> people are posting and posting by people , some are doing top-posting
> in response to bottom-posting along with the folks who are immune to
> inline posting.
>
> Anyway, as far as it gets, yeah, IMHO, it should be fine if original
> poster can get some positive responses.
>
>
>
> ali
>