Did you ever wonder....do antivirus companies genuinely hope that
hackers will have a change of heart and stop trying to infect other
people's computers? That's obviously not the case. For the antivirus
companies, such as Norton, a reduction in number of hackers/viruses
would cause their business to fail. Norton, like law-enforcement,
THRIVE BECAUSE of the bad things that people do.

This in and of itself is not a bad thing. But now I'm gonna show you
my point.

If you found out that by sitting at your computer for a mere 5 minutes
a day, you could generate thousands of dollars in revenue for your
company each month, would you do it? Of course you would. What
business owner would take steps to make sure she MISSES OUT on this
money-making opportunity?

Well now... if companies like Norton thrive on the existece of hackers
(sort of like Satan, who is responsible for keeping the church in
business), then what exactly would prevent the stock-owners of that
company from hiring anonymous geeks to spread new viruses, thus
ensuring Norton will be continually needed in the future by ignorant
poeple who shore don't want any viruses?

Perhaps you are familier with CPS (Child Protective Services). Know
what happens if the reps they hire go too easy on the families accused
of crimes against children? They ensure that their local CPS office
will have progressively less and less work, and eventually ensure the
future loss of their job. How can they avoid this? By turning
mountains into molehills. If your child falsely accuses you of abusing
them, you can be sure CPS will justify their continued future
employment by dragging you through the courts, threatening to take away
your child if you don't conform, or threating not to give the child
back. Wow, ain't nothing like drumming up business for yourself which
guarantees your own employment security, amen?

This CPS thing is an analogy to the antivirus companies.

In short, the very idea that they truly wish all hacker would come to
know Jesus and stop this virus stuff immediately is ridiculous. It
doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that IF companies like
Norton secretly hire hacker to continually infest the internet with
ever-new viruses, they assure themselves a very prosperous future in
that business.

The analogies are endless. Suppose a cop gets a mean talk from his
Sergent for not fulfilling his monthly quota of arrests? Being in the
privileged position he is in, what could he do to make his boss very
happy? You guessed it, start arresting people more often when he
otherwise would let the issue die with just a warning. Speeding
tickets are so easy. If his boss says he ain't giving out the full
quota expected, he can just start pulling people over for doing 60 in a
50 mph zone, instead of waiting to zap the 70 mph speeder.

Hell, why not carry a little cocaine around in a plastic bag on the job
(whose gonna frisk a cop?), and the next time he's called to the scene
of a relatively calm situation, he can request to search the car, or
have it towed away then searched if they don't comply (guaranteeing the
driver will allow the search), and he can plant his cocaine on the guy,
and be the hero of the day back at the cop shop.

Think about it....that cop will lose his house and credit cards and
probably his family if we all started obeying the laws of the land like
paranoid monks.

It should now be as clear to you as the sun on a cloudless day at
noon....that antivirus companies can be fully expected to guarantee
humanity will need them in the future by spreading newer and newer
virus threats themselves.

Now that the sermon is over, you don't need antivirus software to stay
safe from the onslaught of online hackers.

All you need are two hard drives and one copy of Norton Ghost.

Use one hard drive for your operating system.

Use the other for storage only.

Run Norton Ghost and make a back up of your operating system before you
surf the internet.

Now surf all you please.

If your computer starts manifesting symptoms of spyware/virus
infection, such as slowing down, acting inconsistent...

simply run Norton Ghost and tell it to replace your current operating
system with the pristine back up copy.

Now you've surfed where you wanted, and it only took 5 minutes of Ghost
Restore to put your computer back in perfectly clean top running shape.

Now unless you only surf hacker/porn/illegal/cracks type websites, you
should be able to access your hotmail, yahoo, use google to search and
click on the search hits, for at least a month before you find it
necessary to run Ghost and restore your computer.

Personally, I have my computer set up to automatically run Ghost every
night after I go to bed. I am greeted in the morning by one beautiful
woman and one very clean and virus-free computer.

The only sacrifice you have to make is that whatever you download from
the internet or save from cd-rom, must be placed on the second hard
dive, where the Ghost back up files are. Cuz if you just download
stuff to your desktop, theywill all be wiped out with everything else
as soon as you run the ghost restore.

I haven't used virus protection for the last three years, and yet I
surf the internet sometimes up to 10 hours a day (I'm retired, I hope
you get something more out of this post than the mere shock that other
poeple have no kids and more time than you.

Here's a parting thought:

You realize that you have to download ANTI-virus definitions, so that
you antivirus software knows what to look for to disinfect your
computer, right?

Those antivirus definitions, though small, are nevertheless all
necessary to make sure your computer doesn't get infected by any of the
thousands of viruses that are out there now, and that have been around
since 1996.

Ever wonder how much space those definitions are gonna take up on your
hard drive after 10 years goes by? In the year 2016, you will all
probably need an extra 200 gig hard drive just to hold all the
anti-virus definitions that will be necessary to keep up with 10 years
of new viruses!

But don't worry...I'm sure Norton and Microsoft will figure out a way
to get you those extra hard drives real cheap. Ain't that just sweet
of them?

I never wait around to hear you say thanks. I KNOW you are thankful
that my parents met each other. Just look down whenever I walk by and
we won't have any mess, kapeesh?

Of course, I have to anticipate the inevitable reply. by Martha

Martha
Mon Jul 10 05:52:20 CDT 2006

I'm sure somebody will say that if they don't run antivirus software at
all, then in between the first ghost restore and the second, hackers
could be hacking in and reading their private stuff while they surf
the internet, and whatever malicious java code they used to do this
deed will obviously remain undetected on their computer until they next
run Norton Ghost Restore function.

The answer is two-part:

1 - What do you care if people snoop around in your private files?
Unless you live under a rock, you MUST know that high government
agencies, like the CIA, NSA, etc, snoop around in your private stuff
and your email accounts anyway. Remember our stupid fucking president,
George Bush, and his bullshit homeland security act? What ever
snooping they were doing before he got in office, they probably do it
100 times as much now. You might hate the way I write this stuff, but
at least we are agreed that PBush is the type of guy who actually
thinks "issues of national secuity" can be used as a Carte Blache to do
any amount of snooping he pleases, while giving the finger to the
courts, who are supposed to grant a warrant based on good probable
cause, before such snooping is to be done.

2 - If you think you can't surf for two minutes without antivirus
protection, without some hacker noticing you and taking full advantage,
then your confidence in antivirus software is misplaced. You see, if
your own beliefs about antivirus software are true, then it can only
hunt down and kill what it knows to look for. Unfortunately for you,
hackers create viruses much faster than Norton can keep up (IF it be
true that they don't write the malicious code themselves to assure
their future business longevity).

As such, if you surf the net for even 5 minutes immediately after
getting the latest protection from Norton, it is not at all impossible
for a thousand unknown hackers to have created new unknown viruses and
for them to have then made it back to your computer.

If you set up Ghost to wipe out your operating system every night, and
replace it with a fresh new ghosted copy, hacker will never be given
more than a single day to plant spyware or viruses on your computer.

If you try my idea and you like it, then do a little "head dive".....I
mean....restore your computer with ghost, then go surf every last
"cracks/hackers/porn" site you can find, and click as many of their
links as possible, and smile as your computer comes down with a
scorching case of binary herpes complex 101.

J U S T R U N G H O S T & E V E R Y T H I N G W I L L B E
A L R I G H T.

Uh...thus far you should know the simple measure needed in order to
guard against a virus wiping out your second hard drive, on which is
all your precious saved files and the Ghost Restore copies. It's
calling "getting into the habit of saving new downloads to cd at least
once every other day, because we all know that hard drives don't
exactly announce to the world when they plan on crashing..." right?


Hey, get your head off my shoulder...we ain't that close.


Re: permanent solution to viruses by Mark

Mark
Mon Jul 10 06:13:18 CDT 2006

"Martha" <intellectualgiantess@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152527171.627178.118510@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Did you ever wonder....do antivirus companies genuinely hope that
> hackers will have a change of heart and stop trying to infect other
> people's computers? That's obviously not the case. For the antivirus
> companies, such as Norton, a reduction in number of hackers/viruses
> would cause their business to fail. Norton, like law-enforcement,
> THRIVE BECAUSE of the bad things that people do.

I really cant be arsed to read all that.

What I will say though, if you want to be void of all viruses, turn your
computer off.

Its a harsh virtual world out there.

--
- Mark Randall
http://www.temporal-solutions.co.uk

"We're Systems and Networks..."
"It's our job to know..."



Re: permanent solution to viruses by Scherbina

Scherbina
Mon Jul 10 06:32:07 CDT 2006

Martha, don't warry. Norton and other compnies don't need to "simulate"
their own business.

There're a lot of people in the world who makes malware for free and those
who recieved money for that. So I don't think AV will have nothing to do at
all. People always will be writing malware - there're two main reasons:

- improvment of own skills
- malware gives money

--
Vladimir

"Martha" <intellectualgiantess@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152527171.627178.118510@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Did you ever wonder....do antivirus companies genuinely hope that
> hackers will have a change of heart and stop trying to infect other
> people's computers? That's obviously not the case. For the antivirus
> companies, such as Norton, a reduction in number of hackers/viruses
> would cause their business to fail. Norton, like law-enforcement,
> THRIVE BECAUSE of the bad things that people do.
>
> This in and of itself is not a bad thing. But now I'm gonna show you
> my point.
>
> If you found out that by sitting at your computer for a mere 5 minutes
> a day, you could generate thousands of dollars in revenue for your
> company each month, would you do it? Of course you would. What
> business owner would take steps to make sure she MISSES OUT on this
> money-making opportunity?
>
> Well now... if companies like Norton thrive on the existece of hackers
> (sort of like Satan, who is responsible for keeping the church in
> business), then what exactly would prevent the stock-owners of that
> company from hiring anonymous geeks to spread new viruses, thus
> ensuring Norton will be continually needed in the future by ignorant
> poeple who shore don't want any viruses?
>
> Perhaps you are familier with CPS (Child Protective Services). Know
> what happens if the reps they hire go too easy on the families accused
> of crimes against children? They ensure that their local CPS office
> will have progressively less and less work, and eventually ensure the
> future loss of their job. How can they avoid this? By turning
> mountains into molehills. If your child falsely accuses you of abusing
> them, you can be sure CPS will justify their continued future
> employment by dragging you through the courts, threatening to take away
> your child if you don't conform, or threating not to give the child
> back. Wow, ain't nothing like drumming up business for yourself which
> guarantees your own employment security, amen?
>
> This CPS thing is an analogy to the antivirus companies.
>
> In short, the very idea that they truly wish all hacker would come to
> know Jesus and stop this virus stuff immediately is ridiculous. It
> doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that IF companies like
> Norton secretly hire hacker to continually infest the internet with
> ever-new viruses, they assure themselves a very prosperous future in
> that business.
>
> The analogies are endless. Suppose a cop gets a mean talk from his
> Sergent for not fulfilling his monthly quota of arrests? Being in the
> privileged position he is in, what could he do to make his boss very
> happy? You guessed it, start arresting people more often when he
> otherwise would let the issue die with just a warning. Speeding
> tickets are so easy. If his boss says he ain't giving out the full
> quota expected, he can just start pulling people over for doing 60 in a
> 50 mph zone, instead of waiting to zap the 70 mph speeder.
>
> Hell, why not carry a little cocaine around in a plastic bag on the job
> (whose gonna frisk a cop?), and the next time he's called to the scene
> of a relatively calm situation, he can request to search the car, or
> have it towed away then searched if they don't comply (guaranteeing the
> driver will allow the search), and he can plant his cocaine on the guy,
> and be the hero of the day back at the cop shop.
>
> Think about it....that cop will lose his house and credit cards and
> probably his family if we all started obeying the laws of the land like
> paranoid monks.
>
> It should now be as clear to you as the sun on a cloudless day at
> noon....that antivirus companies can be fully expected to guarantee
> humanity will need them in the future by spreading newer and newer
> virus threats themselves.
>
> Now that the sermon is over, you don't need antivirus software to stay
> safe from the onslaught of online hackers.
>
> All you need are two hard drives and one copy of Norton Ghost.
>
> Use one hard drive for your operating system.
>
> Use the other for storage only.
>
> Run Norton Ghost and make a back up of your operating system before you
> surf the internet.
>
> Now surf all you please.
>
> If your computer starts manifesting symptoms of spyware/virus
> infection, such as slowing down, acting inconsistent...
>
> simply run Norton Ghost and tell it to replace your current operating
> system with the pristine back up copy.
>
> Now you've surfed where you wanted, and it only took 5 minutes of Ghost
> Restore to put your computer back in perfectly clean top running shape.
>
> Now unless you only surf hacker/porn/illegal/cracks type websites, you
> should be able to access your hotmail, yahoo, use google to search and
> click on the search hits, for at least a month before you find it
> necessary to run Ghost and restore your computer.
>
> Personally, I have my computer set up to automatically run Ghost every
> night after I go to bed. I am greeted in the morning by one beautiful
> woman and one very clean and virus-free computer.
>
> The only sacrifice you have to make is that whatever you download from
> the internet or save from cd-rom, must be placed on the second hard
> dive, where the Ghost back up files are. Cuz if you just download
> stuff to your desktop, theywill all be wiped out with everything else
> as soon as you run the ghost restore.
>
> I haven't used virus protection for the last three years, and yet I
> surf the internet sometimes up to 10 hours a day (I'm retired, I hope
> you get something more out of this post than the mere shock that other
> poeple have no kids and more time than you.
>
> Here's a parting thought:
>
> You realize that you have to download ANTI-virus definitions, so that
> you antivirus software knows what to look for to disinfect your
> computer, right?
>
> Those antivirus definitions, though small, are nevertheless all
> necessary to make sure your computer doesn't get infected by any of the
> thousands of viruses that are out there now, and that have been around
> since 1996.
>
> Ever wonder how much space those definitions are gonna take up on your
> hard drive after 10 years goes by? In the year 2016, you will all
> probably need an extra 200 gig hard drive just to hold all the
> anti-virus definitions that will be necessary to keep up with 10 years
> of new viruses!
>
> But don't worry...I'm sure Norton and Microsoft will figure out a way
> to get you those extra hard drives real cheap. Ain't that just sweet
> of them?
>
> I never wait around to hear you say thanks. I KNOW you are thankful
> that my parents met each other. Just look down whenever I walk by and
> we won't have any mess, kapeesh?
>



Re: permanent solution to viruses by Ted

Ted
Mon Jul 10 07:47:02 CDT 2006

Sorry...lost interest after the first paragraph. But isn't it in the
interest of police officers to keep criminals in business? If there was
no crime, they're out of work. And how about those firefighters? If they
really enforced those building codes how would they support their
families, etc. etc. In other words, the usual drivel.

---
Ted Zieglar
"Backup is a computer user's best friend."

Martha wrote:
> Did you ever wonder....do antivirus companies genuinely hope that
> hackers will have a change of heart and stop trying to infect other
> people's computers? That's obviously not the case. For the antivirus
> companies, such as Norton, a reduction in number of hackers/viruses
> would cause their business to fail. Norton, like law-enforcement,
> THRIVE BECAUSE of the bad things that people do.
>
> This in and of itself is not a bad thing. But now I'm gonna show you
> my point.
>
> If you found out that by sitting at your computer for a mere 5 minutes
> a day, you could generate thousands of dollars in revenue for your
> company each month, would you do it? Of course you would. What
> business owner would take steps to make sure she MISSES OUT on this
> money-making opportunity?
>
> Well now... if companies like Norton thrive on the existece of hackers
> (sort of like Satan, who is responsible for keeping the church in
> business), then what exactly would prevent the stock-owners of that
> company from hiring anonymous geeks to spread new viruses, thus
> ensuring Norton will be continually needed in the future by ignorant
> poeple who shore don't want any viruses?
>
> Perhaps you are familier with CPS (Child Protective Services). Know
> what happens if the reps they hire go too easy on the families accused
> of crimes against children? They ensure that their local CPS office
> will have progressively less and less work, and eventually ensure the
> future loss of their job. How can they avoid this? By turning
> mountains into molehills. If your child falsely accuses you of abusing
> them, you can be sure CPS will justify their continued future
> employment by dragging you through the courts, threatening to take away
> your child if you don't conform, or threating not to give the child
> back. Wow, ain't nothing like drumming up business for yourself which
> guarantees your own employment security, amen?
>
> This CPS thing is an analogy to the antivirus companies.
>
> In short, the very idea that they truly wish all hacker would come to
> know Jesus and stop this virus stuff immediately is ridiculous. It
> doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that IF companies like
> Norton secretly hire hacker to continually infest the internet with
> ever-new viruses, they assure themselves a very prosperous future in
> that business.
>
> The analogies are endless. Suppose a cop gets a mean talk from his
> Sergent for not fulfilling his monthly quota of arrests? Being in the
> privileged position he is in, what could he do to make his boss very
> happy? You guessed it, start arresting people more often when he
> otherwise would let the issue die with just a warning. Speeding
> tickets are so easy. If his boss says he ain't giving out the full
> quota expected, he can just start pulling people over for doing 60 in a
> 50 mph zone, instead of waiting to zap the 70 mph speeder.
>
> Hell, why not carry a little cocaine around in a plastic bag on the job
> (whose gonna frisk a cop?), and the next time he's called to the scene
> of a relatively calm situation, he can request to search the car, or
> have it towed away then searched if they don't comply (guaranteeing the
> driver will allow the search), and he can plant his cocaine on the guy,
> and be the hero of the day back at the cop shop.
>
> Think about it....that cop will lose his house and credit cards and
> probably his family if we all started obeying the laws of the land like
> paranoid monks.
>
> It should now be as clear to you as the sun on a cloudless day at
> noon....that antivirus companies can be fully expected to guarantee
> humanity will need them in the future by spreading newer and newer
> virus threats themselves.
>
> Now that the sermon is over, you don't need antivirus software to stay
> safe from the onslaught of online hackers.
>
> All you need are two hard drives and one copy of Norton Ghost.
>
> Use one hard drive for your operating system.
>
> Use the other for storage only.
>
> Run Norton Ghost and make a back up of your operating system before you
> surf the internet.
>
> Now surf all you please.
>
> If your computer starts manifesting symptoms of spyware/virus
> infection, such as slowing down, acting inconsistent...
>
> simply run Norton Ghost and tell it to replace your current operating
> system with the pristine back up copy.
>
> Now you've surfed where you wanted, and it only took 5 minutes of Ghost
> Restore to put your computer back in perfectly clean top running shape.
>
> Now unless you only surf hacker/porn/illegal/cracks type websites, you
> should be able to access your hotmail, yahoo, use google to search and
> click on the search hits, for at least a month before you find it
> necessary to run Ghost and restore your computer.
>
> Personally, I have my computer set up to automatically run Ghost every
> night after I go to bed. I am greeted in the morning by one beautiful
> woman and one very clean and virus-free computer.
>
> The only sacrifice you have to make is that whatever you download from
> the internet or save from cd-rom, must be placed on the second hard
> dive, where the Ghost back up files are. Cuz if you just download
> stuff to your desktop, theywill all be wiped out with everything else
> as soon as you run the ghost restore.
>
> I haven't used virus protection for the last three years, and yet I
> surf the internet sometimes up to 10 hours a day (I'm retired, I hope
> you get something more out of this post than the mere shock that other
> poeple have no kids and more time than you.
>
> Here's a parting thought:
>
> You realize that you have to download ANTI-virus definitions, so that
> you antivirus software knows what to look for to disinfect your
> computer, right?
>
> Those antivirus definitions, though small, are nevertheless all
> necessary to make sure your computer doesn't get infected by any of the
> thousands of viruses that are out there now, and that have been around
> since 1996.
>
> Ever wonder how much space those definitions are gonna take up on your
> hard drive after 10 years goes by? In the year 2016, you will all
> probably need an extra 200 gig hard drive just to hold all the
> anti-virus definitions that will be necessary to keep up with 10 years
> of new viruses!
>
> But don't worry...I'm sure Norton and Microsoft will figure out a way
> to get you those extra hard drives real cheap. Ain't that just sweet
> of them?
>
> I never wait around to hear you say thanks. I KNOW you are thankful
> that my parents met each other. Just look down whenever I walk by and
> we won't have any mess, kapeesh?
>

Re: permanent solution to viruses by Malke

Malke
Mon Jul 10 08:01:29 CDT 2006

Martha wrote:

> Did you ever wonder....do antivirus companies genuinely hope that
> hackers will have a change of heart and stop trying to infect other
> people's computers? That's obviously not the case. For the antivirus

(snip rant that's too long to read)

A quick scan of your rant shows that you really don't know anything about
the way the malware/spyware/virus "industry" works - which is nothing like
your imagined scenario. Start reading here if you want to educate yourself.

http://www.benedelman.org/

There is also an interesting article about Direct Revenue here:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_29/b3993001.htm

Malke
--
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic"

RE: permanent solution to viruses by levinson_k

levinson_k
Mon Jul 10 14:11:02 CDT 2006


"Martha" wrote:

> you don't need antivirus software to stay safe from the onslaught of online
> hackers. All you need are two hard drives and one copy of Norton Ghost.

You do realize that Symantec makes that product as well...

> Now surf all you please. If your computer starts manifesting symptoms of
> spyware/virus infection, such as slowing down, acting inconsistent... simply run
> Norton Ghost and tell it to replace your current operating system with the pristine > back up copy.
> Now you've surfed where you wanted, and it only took 5 minutes of Ghost
> Restore to put your computer back in perfectly clean top running shape.

That's not a responsible thing to be publicly advising others to do. Some
people can run safely without antivirus, with only a modest risk of becoming
infected. However, not everyone can do this. And you don't always have
noticable side effects like slowness when you become infected, to tell you
you're infected. Your plan is entirely reactionary and not at all
preventative, so that you can become infected and become a nuisance to other
Internet users. Last, what about patches? Does not the system restore wipe
off all your patches installed since then, leaving you vulnerable to
infections?

Trust me, many wise people have been working on a "permanent solution" to
viruses. If there was a better solution than using antivirus software,
firewall and patches, it would be selling like gangbusters right now.

> Ever wonder how much space those definitions are gonna take up on your
> hard drive after 10 years goes by? In the year 2016, you will all
> probably need an extra 200 gig hard drive just to hold all the
> anti-virus definitions that will be necessary to keep up with 10 years
> of new viruses!

Antivirus companies are way ahead of you, and have alread started deleting
signatures for old extinct viruses. Besides, it's not really a good idea to
be planning your current security posture based on what might or might not
happen in 2016.

--
kind regards,

Karl Levinson, CISSP, MCSE, CCSA, MS MVP
-------------------------
Microsoft Security FAQ:
http://www.securityadmin.info


Re: permanent solution to viruses by Roger

Roger
Tue Jul 11 01:19:27 CDT 2006

"Martha" <intellectualgiantess@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152527171.627178.118510@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Did you ever wonder....do antivirus companies genuinely hope that
> hackers will have a change of heart and stop trying to infect other
> people's computers? That's obviously not the case. For the antivirus
> companies, such as Norton, a reduction in number of hackers/viruses
> would cause their business to fail. Norton, like law-enforcement,
> THRIVE BECAUSE of the bad things that people do.
>

If governments were successful they would become useless.
If religions were successful they would become useless.
etc. etc.

<snip>

> Personally, I have my computer set up to automatically run Ghost every
> night after I go to bed. I am greeted in the morning by one beautiful
> woman and one very clean and virus-free computer.
>
> The only sacrifice you have to make is that whatever you download from
> the internet or save from cd-rom, must be placed on the second hard
> dive, where the Ghost back up files are. Cuz if you just download
> stuff to your desktop, theywill all be wiped out with everything else
> as soon as you run the ghost restore.
>

. . . and you immediately reinfect the new image using the
> whatever you download from the internet or save from cd-rom,
> must be placed on the second hard dive
vectors, at least until you make a new Ghost image that includes
their payloads . . .



Re: permanent solution to viruses by Ian

Ian
Tue Jul 11 06:12:01 CDT 2006

By the same token, I, as an IT consultant , could make sure I keep busy by
installing systems that are designed to give plenty trouble. I have no doubt
at all that there are some guys who do exactly this, but personally I can't
be bothered stooping to that abysmal level of dishonesty.

The single most common attack-vector these days is the use of insecure
Internet applications. Change the web-browser and email client, and you're
90% of the way to solving the problem. That, and to discourage the use of
unfirewalled USB modems in favour of NAT routers.



-------------------------------

An alternative approach to XP network logon - http://mylogon.net



Re: permanent solution to viruses by Martha

Martha
Thu Jul 13 06:05:39 CDT 2006


Ted Zieglar wrote:
> Sorry...lost interest after the first paragraph. But isn't it in the
> interest of police officers to keep criminals in business? If there was
> no crime, they're out of work. And how about those firefighters? If they
> really enforced those building codes how would they support their
> families, etc. etc. In other words, the usual drivel.

You have pushed my comments too far. That's about as stupid as saying
schoolteachers purposely miseducate their students so as to make sure
they are needed again every year. I didn't say everybody was that kind
of case.

Gee what you do you think would say to the prospect of infesting the
internet with viruses they don't plan on issuing the antivirus
definitions to, for about a month afterward? Oh gee, too much money
for that corporation, and we all know that corporations are the last
place you'd find swindlers and cheaters.


Re: permanent solution to viruses by Martha

Martha
Thu Jul 13 06:28:45 CDT 2006


Malke wrote:
> Martha wrote:
>
> > Did you ever wonder....do antivirus companies genuinely hope that
> > hackers will have a change of heart and stop trying to infect other
> > people's computers? That's obviously not the case. For the antivirus
>
> (snip rant that's too long to read)
>
> A quick scan of your rant shows that you really don't know anything about
> the way the malware/spyware/virus "industry" works - which is nothing like
> your imagined scenario. Start reading here if you want to educate yourself.

Then read it again, this time somewhat slower than "quick scan". If
you think a big corporation will NOT do what it can to assure it's own
future profits, you are a fucking idiot. It's nice that you have faith
in people's integrity until they first prove to you they are dishonest,
but if you'd watch the news more than once a decade, you'd learn that
corporations are the FIRST place you find corruption.

For starters, about 5 years ago, when my computer started
malfunctioning, I took it to a repair shop in town. I said I would pay
them for a diagnosis of the problem. They agreed, I came back in two
hours, and they were asking $90 to pay for my newly reinstalled
operating system............

That's funny, I don't remember signing a work order, and I don't
remember asking them to repair anything. What part of diagnosis didn't
they understand?

To make a long story short, I argued with them in their shop until they
reluctantly gave me back my computer for free.

The whole point is this. Had they been honest and said "we don't
diagnose, we just quote you a price to fix and that's it", they knew I
would have taken my business elsewhere.

So what they did was to falsely assume that I'd be like a hundred other
people, and "just" pay for the repair. Their whole object was to prey
upon people's ignorance. If I paid for diagnosis, and then they told
me what was wrong, I could have fixed it myself. That doesn't bring in
money for them.

So it is the same with the antivirus companies; they know that if you
become educated on what exactly you need to do to avoid viruses without
their software, you will NOT lay out $50 for the shit.

Don't you think it's slightly suspicious that these programs have
nothing but sad scary stories about how the internet will eat you up
and help people steal your identity? They may be right, but why aren't
they also telling you what you can do to avoid having to pay for their
product?

SO if you realize that those corporations will package their stuff in a
way that makes the customer appear at the mercy of wild animals without
their software, then it's no large leap of logic to assume they
probably also do even more things, which corporations are known to do,
in assure their future profiteering.

The very idea that Symantec of McAffee hope the entire world of hackers
quits what they are doing and starting being better citizens is about
as brainless as the idea that all cops wish all criminals would
suddenly stop committing crime. If you wanna lose your income in the
holy name of poverty, then yeah, I guess you refuted me, dumbshit.

> http://www.benedelman.org/
>
> There is also an interesting article about Direct Revenue here:
> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_29/b3993001.htm
>
> Malke
> --
> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
> Elephant Boy Computers
> www.elephantboycomputers.com
> "Don't Panic"

It's pretty hard to take seriously a lesson in internet commerce from
somebody who represents "elephant boy computers".

What, is the spine of your work completely wrethed and utterly
abnormal? Given your "I've never heard what big corporations are
really like' bullshit, yes, that's probably what is meant by "elephant
boy computers".

Or maybe you sell antivirus shit and I'm not very good for your
business, as one of my opponents here already testified to when he said
I shouldn't go public with this. Damn straight. I might end up
discovering a very well paid assasin in my closet. When you hit poeple
in the pocketbook, you see Christians turn into devils real quick. Now
aside from the money shit, am I right or not? Does my scheme of two
harddrives and a ghost back up utility provide just as good protection
against virus damage as antivirus programs? If not, why not?

How about if you keep all your personal confidential files in a locked
encrypted file on the storage harddrive, then run the ghost backup
utility every night?

You'll always have a superclean system to work with every day, and any
bastard or bitch who accesses your private shit, will open up nothing
on their computer but a shitload of worthless wingdings.

TELL me what antivirus programs do that is better than this. I already
have against them their absurd hogging of RAM. No, Mr. Norton, not
everybody has a full gigabyte of ram. We'd like to be functional and
safe without having to wait for your shit to complete itself so we can
open up another program. My scheme uses ZERO ram, got anything better?
No, you don't.


Re: permanent solution to viruses by karl

karl
Thu Jul 13 06:39:55 CDT 2006


"Martha" <intellectualgiantess@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152788739.073820.113110@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

>> the usual drivel.

> Gee what you do you think would say to the prospect of infesting the
> internet with viruses they don't plan on issuing the antivirus
> definitions to, for about a month afterward? Oh gee, too much money
> for that corporation, and we all know that corporations are the last
> place you'd find swindlers and cheaters.

You're not the first person to come up with this bright idea, this idea is
over a decade old now. People who have been around that long get really
tired of having to explain away the same nonsense idea year after year.

There are many different antivirus companies. Which one in particular do
you think is writing the viruses? Or is it all of them?

Hundreds or thousands of virus authors have been identified by law
enforcement and other impartial people [not working for antivirus companies]
over the years, and none of them were working for antivirus companies. No
antivirus company has been found to be writing viruses. That company would
be out of business if this was found to be true, and people would be put in
jail. Antivirus companies don't make enough profit to make any of their
employees risk jail time.

You have to look at what these viruses are trying to do. Viruses nowadays
generally do things that are useful not to antivirus companies but to the
mob: send out spam for a fee, launch denial of service attacks for a fee,
give anonymous remote control of computers for a fee, etc. As far as
motives, it is far more believable that the mob, who are making significant
money, would be writing viruses than the antivirus companies, who are really
not making significant money.

You can search Google for more information on why this idea is not logical.



Re: permanent solution to viruses by Martha

Martha
Thu Jul 13 07:04:31 CDT 2006


Karl wrote:
> "Martha" wrote:
>
> > you don't need antivirus software to stay safe from the onslaught of online
> > hackers. All you need are two hard drives and one copy of Norton Ghost.
>
> You do realize that Symantec makes that product as well...

Yeah, I never said they were the devil incarnate...just his asshole.

> > Now surf all you please. If your computer starts manifesting symptoms of
> > spyware/virus infection, such as slowing down, acting inconsistent... simply run
> > Norton Ghost and tell it to replace your current operating system with the pristine > back up copy.
> > Now you've surfed where you wanted, and it only took 5 minutes of Ghost
> > Restore to put your computer back in perfectly clean top running shape.

> That's not a responsible thing to be publicly advising others to do.

Why not say this publicly?

What, I might ruin the profits of some assholes that are making money
off people's ignorance? Fuck you.

Some
> people can run safely without antivirus, with only a modest risk of becoming
> infected. However, not everyone can do this.

Irrelevant...if they use my own plan, they can surf porn/serials/crack
sites until their computer starts levitating with viruses and spyware
coming in at the speed of light. 5 minutes with Norton Ghost and they
are all permanent history.

> And you don't always have
> noticable side effects like slowness when you become infected, to tell you
> you're infected.

Agreed, and I didn't mean to imply that you should refrain from running
the Ghost Restore function only when the computer slows down.

I should have said "run Norton Ghost Restore EVERYTIME you leave your
computer for more than a half hour." THis may be extreme, but so are
viruses, and my method for getting rid of them takes nothing more than
what they person already does millions of times a day...clicking.

>Your plan is entirely reactionary and not at all
> preventative, so that you can become infected and become a nuisance to other
> Internet users.

Norton Antivirus, indeed no antivirus software, can prevent all
possibility of becoming infected. So the shortcoming you discovered in
my plan was one that was always possessed by the antivirus companies
already.

> Last, what about patches? Does not the system restore wipe
> off all your patches installed since then, leaving you vulnerable to
> infections?

No! What the hell are you talking about? Did you never hear of Norton
Ghost? It makes (as they advertise it) an "EXACT COPY" of your
operating system.

Couple years ago, I purchased a copy of Norton antivirus from Circuit
City. After installing it, updating it, and running a full system
check, I ghosted the hard drive. the next day, I use Ghost to restore
my OS. When i ran liveupdate to check for the latest antivirus
definitions, it said "all symantec products are updated."

So...no. you do NOT lose anything when you do a ghost restore of your
OS.

The ultimate proof of this is the fact that I can reinstall
trial-software after a Ghost restore, and get another 30 days on it.
That's because I ghosted the hard drive just before installation of any
trial software. Therefore, when I ghost restore, the later
installation of the trial-limited software sees NOTHING on my OS to
indicate that it has been there before.

I NEVER pay for software. But I've sold ghost copies of my entire new
operating system through ebay. Being a freeloading parasite sure is
fun, and I don't even hav 2 gho bak an gyt mie Gee.Eee.Dee. If you
want to buy a data cd full of copyrighted porn pics stolen from other
websites, just let me know. I can sell you a "blank cd" for about $45.
That's pretty cheap for a.....a "blank cd" , eh?!

> Trust me, many wise people have been working on a "permanent solution" to
> viruses. If there was a better solution than using antivirus software,
> firewall and patches, it would be selling like gangbusters right now.

On the contrary, dear Watson, have you never heard of that
Phareceutical company that paid 15 million to a private researcher who
found a cure for a certain type of cancer? Google it. If I come up
with something that is better than what those rich bastard
market-makers have you can be sure they will simply ignore and feed the
flames of scared ignorant customers even more.

Trust me, many wise people have been working on a "permanent solution"
to viruses. If there was a better solution than using antivirus
software, firewall and patches, it would be completely ignored by those
who are making a killing off of otherwise completely pointless
antivirus programs.

> > Ever wonder how much space those definitions are gonna take up on your
> > hard drive after 10 years goes by? In the year 2016, you will all
> > probably need an extra 200 gig hard drive just to hold all the
> > anti-virus definitions that will be necessary to keep up with 10 years
> > of new viruses!
>
> Antivirus companies are way ahead of you, and have alread started deleting
> signatures for old extinct viruses.

But since they can't know that an old virus has fully disappeared, they
therefore make potential for an attack that they won't be able to
defend against. Like me. I've saved up hundreds of viruses from
1998-2002. I'm gonna wait a few more years until everybody has
forgotten them. Then I'm gonna unleash my babies through a series of
interconnected spam computers. Not a good idea to delete old virus
signatures....you'd have to be God to be sure they were all effectively
killed. It's assholes like me that resurrect the bastards and cause
future problems for the family oriented conservative Bush supporters
who make antivirus definitions for a living.

> Besides, it's not really a good idea to
> be planning your current security posture based on what might or might not
> happen in 2016.

On the contrary, you should always plan as early as a possible to ward
off a seemingly certain future attack. Unless you have been living
under a rock the last decade, any dummy can see that hackers are
keeping the antivirus-people on their toes, always busy. So unless all
hackers someday decide to repent of the evil deeds, it's just as safe a
bet that they will still exist and "need" antivirus authors to protect
the stupid people, as it is to bet the sun will rise tomorrow. sure,
can't know everything for certain, but we also dont' throw our hands in
the air and act as if total chaos might ensue at any moment.

>
> --
> kind regards,
>
> Karl Levinson, CISSP, MCSE, CCSA, MS MVP
> -------------------------
> Microsoft Security FAQ:
> http://www.securityadmin.info

Nota. Nota fuckin' chance.

Weren't you just asking me why a Ghost restore wouldn't destroy one's
patches? You've got all that happy acronymic horseshit after your
name, and you DIDN'T know that Ghost restore puts everythign back 100%?

I'm beginning to think you are the kind of "MCSE" that would want to
purchase a "blank CD" from some freak over the internet for $45.


Re: permanent solution to viruses by Martha

Martha
Thu Jul 13 07:18:00 CDT 2006


Roger Abell [MVP] wrote:
> "Martha" <intellectualgiantess@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1152527171.627178.118510@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Did you ever wonder....do antivirus companies genuinely hope that
> > hackers will have a change of heart and stop trying to infect other
> > people's computers? That's obviously not the case. For the antivirus
> > companies, such as Norton, a reduction in number of hackers/viruses
> > would cause their business to fail. Norton, like law-enforcement,
> > THRIVE BECAUSE of the bad things that people do.
> >
>
> If governments were successful they would become useless.
> If religions were successful they would become useless.
> etc. etc.

But it's true. And nice abbreviation of the idea.

> <snip>
>
> > Personally, I have my computer set up to automatically run Ghost every
> > night after I go to bed. I am greeted in the morning by one beautiful
> > woman and one very clean and virus-free computer.
> >
> > The only sacrifice you have to make is that whatever you download from
> > the internet or save from cd-rom, must be placed on the second hard
> > dive, where the Ghost back up files are. Cuz if you just download
> > stuff to your desktop, theywill all be wiped out with everything else
> > as soon as you run the ghost restore.
> >
>
> . . . and you immediately reinfect the new image using the
> > whatever you download from the internet or save from cd-rom,
> > must be placed on the second hard dive
> vectors, at least until you make a new Ghost image that includes
> their payloads . . .

No.

I didn't say "go save your new downloads into the ghost image on the
second hard-drive.

I said go save your stuff onto the hard-drive.

I've only heard about viruses that can hurt or contaminate a hard drive
by simplying being copied there inside whatever program it was that
they came in, that has never happened to me, and I've been surfing all
over the internet without antivirus protection for the last 5 years.
Maybe I lose the virus when i decompile those trial-limited software
programs and hack their registration #'s to unlock them in direct
violation of their EULA.

I always try to do whatever I can to make it harder and harder on the
working man, sinking into the mud with aching muscles...as I look down
from above in my feather-filled floating whore-chariot and complain
violently about the smallest infractions. FUCK EVERYBODY.


Re: permanent solution to viruses by Martha

Martha
Thu Jul 13 07:37:19 CDT 2006


Ian wrote:
> By the same token, I, as an IT consultant , could make sure I keep busy by
> installing systems that are designed to give plenty trouble. I have no doubt
> at all that there are some guys who do exactly this, but personally I can't
> be bothered stooping to that abysmal level of dishonesty.

But my point was, how absurd to think that corporations who could do
this and make money, and yet choose the road of higher morals as you
have. Think about the stockholders. If the company is generally
honest, what would prevent some of their more greedy stockholders from
paying some geek-ass $5,000 per month to infest the internet with as
many new viruses as she can possibly create? Boy, that'll sure make us
a killin'!

And I've got news for the fucking idiot in a past post here who mocked
my idea about cops needing criminals to keep their jobs, etc.

The military, an accurate representative of corporate corruption if
there ever was one...has long been in the business of causing havoc
undercover, so they can then publicly go "fix" it.

Remember the Reichstag fire, the one Hitler blamed on the Jews? The
Germans believed that bullshit, and so most of them supported Hitler,
but HE was the one who caused it!

Remember 1962? the Cuban Invasion? Go on the internet and find
recently declassified military documents in which the top brass
discussed ways of sabotaging their own military, then blaming the
Cubans, for the sake of creating public support for their desire to got
to war with Cuba.

Need a more modern example of this shit?

How about that video of Osama bin Laden which played only hours after
the WTC were hit, with television reporters across the US saying this
depicted Osama cheering and dancing happily with his fellows after
learning that the WTC attack was a success.....only to find out later
that this video was actually made in 1999 and not 2001?

But weren't we all pissed before we learned this fact?

And isn't a pissed off America exactly what a war-mongering president
would need in order to bolster American support for his desire to go to
Iraq under false pretenses and get his hands on their oil? YES.

The point is, this idea of mine about secretely creating problems which
you can then make money by publicly solving is quite lucrative, and
doesn't take a lot of brains to figure out how to do it without getting
caught.

Let's first see some news coverage of indicted greedy corporations
which were NOT shut down, but defeated charges of book-cooking, and
THEN you can start telling me about how rabidly biblical and
conservative those Amish Pilgrims are progressing over there at Norton.

> The single most common attack-vector these days is the use of insecure
> Internet applications. Change the web-browser and email client, and you're
> 90% of the way to solving the problem. That, and to discourage the use of
> unfirewalled USB modems in favour of NAT routers.

Exactly. I am perfectly disgusted by all the facts on security
breaches and holes I've discovered Microsoft's Internet Explorer to
have.

I don't understand how anybody who knows about the unending "security
updates" Microsoft can't live without, can think that Microsoft was NOT
creating future need by designing their product with less security than
it could have had. All the protection and patches we see today, should
have been EASILY envisioned by Microsoft years ago.

> -------------------------------
>
> An alternative approach to XP network logon - http://mylogon.net