Here's my scenario: We're doing L2TP VPNs, and we have a very well
functional internal PKI set up (doing EAP-TLS for interal wireless, so
it's well tested).

In doing L2TP VPNs, we need to get certificates on the clients--a User
level certificate stored in the local computer store. That's easy, we
do it with autoenrollment and a GPO on the domain.

However, I have 2 clients that are not part of my domain that need to
get a computer certificate. I can get them the certs for my Root and
issuing certificate authorities, that's easy, but how in the world do
I get them a computer certificate?

Please note, they are completely disconnected. Our Certificate server
is not reachable from the outside world, nor are these computers going
to be toted into the office to be on my network anytime soon. I'm not
doing PPTP to get them in without certificates to make the request.
How can I make a request on their behalf and export something that I
can send via floppy or USB? We're not ready to do smartcards yet.

Gratzi

Edd

Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by Miha

Miha
Mon Aug 23 14:38:54 CDT 2004

Hi Eddie,

If I understand you correctly you have Enterprise CA. Can you tell what
version is it? Windows 2000 or Windows 2003?

What you are asking is possible using IPSec (offline request), but I am only
sure for Windows 2003 PKI (Enteprise PKI)...

What you can do is e.g. request a certificate on your PC. Once CA issues
your computer a certificate you export it and send it off on floppy or USB.
My advice is here to use strong password for protection of private keys.
Send private keys in separate shipment or even better tell them over a
phone...

Mike

"Eddie Wedensworth" <auto3545@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:9d76f9da.0408231122.35ea9c78@posting.google.com...
> Here's my scenario: We're doing L2TP VPNs, and we have a very well
> functional internal PKI set up (doing EAP-TLS for interal wireless, so
> it's well tested).
>
> In doing L2TP VPNs, we need to get certificates on the clients--a User
> level certificate stored in the local computer store. That's easy, we
> do it with autoenrollment and a GPO on the domain.
>
> However, I have 2 clients that are not part of my domain that need to
> get a computer certificate. I can get them the certs for my Root and
> issuing certificate authorities, that's easy, but how in the world do
> I get them a computer certificate?
>
> Please note, they are completely disconnected. Our Certificate server
> is not reachable from the outside world, nor are these computers going
> to be toted into the office to be on my network anytime soon. I'm not
> doing PPTP to get them in without certificates to make the request.
> How can I make a request on their behalf and export something that I
> can send via floppy or USB? We're not ready to do smartcards yet.
>
> Gratzi
>
> Edd



Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by auto3545

auto3545
Tue Aug 24 17:51:05 CDT 2004

First off, sorry for the crosspost.

Yes, I'm using an Enteprise CA on a 2003 intrastructure.

Are you saying I should request on my inside-the-network PC and export
it? Would that mean if I already have a computer certificate on the
inside of the network it would be identical when imported on the
machine outside of the network?

Thanks!

Eddie


"Miha Pihler" <mihap-news@atlantis.si> wrote in message news:<OTVgWjUiEHA.1356@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>...
> Hi Eddie,
>
> If I understand you correctly you have Enterprise CA. Can you tell what
> version is it? Windows 2000 or Windows 2003?
>
> What you are asking is possible using IPSec (offline request), but I am only
> sure for Windows 2003 PKI (Enteprise PKI)...
>
> What you can do is e.g. request a certificate on your PC. Once CA issues
> your computer a certificate you export it and send it off on floppy or USB.
> My advice is here to use strong password for protection of private keys.
> Send private keys in separate shipment or even better tell them over a
> phone...
>
> Mike
>
> "Eddie Wedensworth" <auto3545@hushmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9d76f9da.0408231122.35ea9c78@posting.google.com...
> > Here's my scenario: We're doing L2TP VPNs, and we have a very well
> > functional internal PKI set up (doing EAP-TLS for interal wireless, so
> > it's well tested).
> >
> > In doing L2TP VPNs, we need to get certificates on the clients--a User
> > level certificate stored in the local computer store. That's easy, we
> > do it with autoenrollment and a GPO on the domain.
> >
> > However, I have 2 clients that are not part of my domain that need to
> > get a computer certificate. I can get them the certs for my Root and
> > issuing certificate authorities, that's easy, but how in the world do
> > I get them a computer certificate?
> >
> > Please note, they are completely disconnected. Our Certificate server
> > is not reachable from the outside world, nor are these computers going
> > to be toted into the office to be on my network anytime soon. I'm not
> > doing PPTP to get them in without certificates to make the request.
> > How can I make a request on their behalf and export something that I
> > can send via floppy or USB? We're not ready to do smartcards yet.
> >
> > Gratzi
> >
> > Edd

Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by Miha

Miha
Tue Aug 24 18:28:40 CDT 2004

Hi Eddie,

You can always request new certificate (additional certificate) based on
same template from your PC. Even if you request additional certificate from
your PC new certificate will not be same as the one on your PC (private and
public keys will be different and you will be able to tell certificates
apart be e.g. serial number). Once you have them on your PC you can export
them to .pfx file and send it to end user. Now you can even delete them from
your PC.

Another options would be (probably the way I would do it) it to e.g. take
Virtual PC (or VMWare if you prefer it) and join the VirtualPC to domain.
This VirtualPC would get certificates needed so now you can export them.
Nice thing about this is you can give them different name -- and you should
be able to tell who got the certificate based on computer name (not just by
e.g. serial number). This is a better solution compared to first one. In
first solution all computer certificates would be named after your PC.

Another option would be to use web interface
(http://cert_server/certutil/...) and make a request based on IPSec
certificate template (IPSec Offline Request). This depends quite a bit on
your VPN configuration. Main question is do you use IPSec and do you use
certificates for authentication. If you only use L2TP this won't help...

I hope this helps. If you have any questions feel free to ask...

Mike

"Eddie Wedensworth" <auto3545@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:9d76f9da.0408241451.61e4a65d@posting.google.com...
> First off, sorry for the crosspost.
>
> Yes, I'm using an Enteprise CA on a 2003 intrastructure.
>
> Are you saying I should request on my inside-the-network PC and export
> it? Would that mean if I already have a computer certificate on the
> inside of the network it would be identical when imported on the
> machine outside of the network?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eddie
>
>
> "Miha Pihler" <mihap-news@atlantis.si> wrote in message
news:<OTVgWjUiEHA.1356@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>...
> > Hi Eddie,
> >
> > If I understand you correctly you have Enterprise CA. Can you tell what
> > version is it? Windows 2000 or Windows 2003?
> >
> > What you are asking is possible using IPSec (offline request), but I am
only
> > sure for Windows 2003 PKI (Enteprise PKI)...
> >
> > What you can do is e.g. request a certificate on your PC. Once CA issues
> > your computer a certificate you export it and send it off on floppy or
USB.
> > My advice is here to use strong password for protection of private keys.
> > Send private keys in separate shipment or even better tell them over a
> > phone...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > "Eddie Wedensworth" <auto3545@hushmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:9d76f9da.0408231122.35ea9c78@posting.google.com...
> > > Here's my scenario: We're doing L2TP VPNs, and we have a very well
> > > functional internal PKI set up (doing EAP-TLS for interal wireless, so
> > > it's well tested).
> > >
> > > In doing L2TP VPNs, we need to get certificates on the clients--a User
> > > level certificate stored in the local computer store. That's easy, we
> > > do it with autoenrollment and a GPO on the domain.
> > >
> > > However, I have 2 clients that are not part of my domain that need to
> > > get a computer certificate. I can get them the certs for my Root and
> > > issuing certificate authorities, that's easy, but how in the world do
> > > I get them a computer certificate?
> > >
> > > Please note, they are completely disconnected. Our Certificate server
> > > is not reachable from the outside world, nor are these computers going
> > > to be toted into the office to be on my network anytime soon. I'm not
> > > doing PPTP to get them in without certificates to make the request.
> > > How can I make a request on their behalf and export something that I
> > > can send via floppy or USB? We're not ready to do smartcards yet.
> > >
> > > Gratzi
> > >
> > > Edd



Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by Paul

Paul
Wed Aug 25 04:58:29 CDT 2004

In article <e8PeYIjiEHA.3632@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, in the
microsoft.public.security news group, Miha Pihler <mihap-
news@atlantis.si> says...

There are a number of technical errors in this response. Comments
inline...
>
> You can always request new certificate (additional certificate) based on
> same template from your PC. Even if you request additional certificate from
> your PC new certificate will not be same as the one on your PC (private and
> public keys will be different and you will be able to tell certificates
> apart be e.g. serial number). Once you have them on your PC you can export
> them to .pfx file and send it to end user. Now you can even delete them from
> your PC.

If you go back and reread the original post, you should see why this
advice is wrong, and won't work. The Computer certificate template is
configured to build the subject name of an issued certificate from
Active Directory. Since the OP was talking about a couple of systems
that are not domain members this obviously won't work. The second
certificate will still have the requesting computer name information as
the subject and it will be unusable from any system that has a different
computer name. The certificate won't work on a system other than the one
for which it was issued.

>
> Another options would be (probably the way I would do it) it to e.g. take
> Virtual PC (or VMWare if you prefer it) and join the VirtualPC to domain.
> This VirtualPC would get certificates needed so now you can export them.
> Nice thing about this is you can give them different name -- and you should
> be able to tell who got the certificate based on computer name (not just by
> e.g. serial number). This is a better solution compared to first one. In
> first solution all computer certificates would be named after your PC.

Again, this is not going to work as you're talking about using the
Computer template. Same reasons as above.

>
> Another option would be to use web interface
> (http://cert_server/certutil/...) and make a request based on IPSec
> certificate template (IPSec Offline Request). This depends quite a bit on
> your VPN configuration. Main question is do you use IPSec and do you use
> certificates for authentication. If you only use L2TP this won't help...

This is the correct solution, though since the systems in question can't
reach the CA, you'll need to request the certificates from a system that
can reach the CA, and then make those certificates available to the
external systems. The reason this solution will work is that this
particular template is configured so that the subject name is provided
in the request (you enter it in the web UI) rather than being built from
Active Directory.

>
> I hope this helps. If you have any questions feel free to ask...
>
> Mike
>
> "Eddie Wedensworth" <auto3545@hushmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9d76f9da.0408241451.61e4a65d@posting.google.com...
> > First off, sorry for the crosspost.
> >
> > Yes, I'm using an Enteprise CA on a 2003 intrastructure.
> >
> > Are you saying I should request on my inside-the-network PC and export
> > it? Would that mean if I already have a computer certificate on the
> > inside of the network it would be identical when imported on the
> > machine outside of the network?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Eddie
> >
> >
> > "Miha Pihler" <mihap-news@atlantis.si> wrote in message
> news:<OTVgWjUiEHA.1356@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>...
> > > Hi Eddie,
> > >
> > > If I understand you correctly you have Enterprise CA. Can you tell what
> > > version is it? Windows 2000 or Windows 2003?
> > >
> > > What you are asking is possible using IPSec (offline request), but I am
> only
> > > sure for Windows 2003 PKI (Enteprise PKI)...
> > >
> > > What you can do is e.g. request a certificate on your PC. Once CA issues
> > > your computer a certificate you export it and send it off on floppy or
> USB.
> > > My advice is here to use strong password for protection of private keys.
> > > Send private keys in separate shipment or even better tell them over a
> > > phone...
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > "Eddie Wedensworth" <auto3545@hushmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:9d76f9da.0408231122.35ea9c78@posting.google.com...
> > > > Here's my scenario: We're doing L2TP VPNs, and we have a very well
> > > > functional internal PKI set up (doing EAP-TLS for interal wireless, so
> > > > it's well tested).
> > > >
> > > > In doing L2TP VPNs, we need to get certificates on the clients--a User
> > > > level certificate stored in the local computer store. That's easy, we
> > > > do it with autoenrollment and a GPO on the domain.
> > > >
> > > > However, I have 2 clients that are not part of my domain that need to
> > > > get a computer certificate. I can get them the certs for my Root and
> > > > issuing certificate authorities, that's easy, but how in the world do
> > > > I get them a computer certificate?
> > > >
> > > > Please note, they are completely disconnected. Our Certificate server
> > > > is not reachable from the outside world, nor are these computers going
> > > > to be toted into the office to be on my network anytime soon. I'm not
> > > > doing PPTP to get them in without certificates to make the request.
> > > > How can I make a request on their behalf and export something that I
> > > > can send via floppy or USB? We're not ready to do smartcards yet.
> > > >
> > > > Gratzi
> > > >
> > > > Edd
>
>
>

--
Paul Adare
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by Miha

Miha
Wed Aug 25 07:06:23 CDT 2004

Paul,

Thanks for your input. The only option is as you said request using web
interface for e.g. IPSec (offline request).

Mike

"Paul Adare - MVP - Microsoft Virtual PC" <padare@newsguy.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.1b962cd376a0dcec989a24@msnews.microsoft.com...
> In article <e8PeYIjiEHA.3632@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, in the
> microsoft.public.security news group, Miha Pihler <mihap-
> news@atlantis.si> says...
>
> There are a number of technical errors in this response. Comments
> inline...
> >
> > You can always request new certificate (additional certificate) based on
> > same template from your PC. Even if you request additional certificate
from
> > your PC new certificate will not be same as the one on your PC (private
and
> > public keys will be different and you will be able to tell certificates
> > apart be e.g. serial number). Once you have them on your PC you can
export
> > them to .pfx file and send it to end user. Now you can even delete them
from
> > your PC.
>
> If you go back and reread the original post, you should see why this
> advice is wrong, and won't work. The Computer certificate template is
> configured to build the subject name of an issued certificate from
> Active Directory. Since the OP was talking about a couple of systems
> that are not domain members this obviously won't work. The second
> certificate will still have the requesting computer name information as
> the subject and it will be unusable from any system that has a different
> computer name. The certificate won't work on a system other than the one
> for which it was issued.
>
> >
> > Another options would be (probably the way I would do it) it to e.g.
take
> > Virtual PC (or VMWare if you prefer it) and join the VirtualPC to
domain.
> > This VirtualPC would get certificates needed so now you can export them.
> > Nice thing about this is you can give them different name -- and you
should
> > be able to tell who got the certificate based on computer name (not just
by
> > e.g. serial number). This is a better solution compared to first one. In
> > first solution all computer certificates would be named after your PC.
>
> Again, this is not going to work as you're talking about using the
> Computer template. Same reasons as above.
>
> >
> > Another option would be to use web interface
> > (http://cert_server/certutil/...) and make a request based on IPSec
> > certificate template (IPSec Offline Request). This depends quite a bit
on
> > your VPN configuration. Main question is do you use IPSec and do you use
> > certificates for authentication. If you only use L2TP this won't help...
>
> This is the correct solution, though since the systems in question can't
> reach the CA, you'll need to request the certificates from a system that
> can reach the CA, and then make those certificates available to the
> external systems. The reason this solution will work is that this
> particular template is configured so that the subject name is provided
> in the request (you enter it in the web UI) rather than being built from
> Active Directory.
>
> >
> > I hope this helps. If you have any questions feel free to ask...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > "Eddie Wedensworth" <auto3545@hushmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:9d76f9da.0408241451.61e4a65d@posting.google.com...
> > > First off, sorry for the crosspost.
> > >
> > > Yes, I'm using an Enteprise CA on a 2003 intrastructure.
> > >
> > > Are you saying I should request on my inside-the-network PC and export
> > > it? Would that mean if I already have a computer certificate on the
> > > inside of the network it would be identical when imported on the
> > > machine outside of the network?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Eddie
> > >
> > >
> > > "Miha Pihler" <mihap-news@atlantis.si> wrote in message
> > news:<OTVgWjUiEHA.1356@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>...
> > > > Hi Eddie,
> > > >
> > > > If I understand you correctly you have Enterprise CA. Can you tell
what
> > > > version is it? Windows 2000 or Windows 2003?
> > > >
> > > > What you are asking is possible using IPSec (offline request), but I
am
> > only
> > > > sure for Windows 2003 PKI (Enteprise PKI)...
> > > >
> > > > What you can do is e.g. request a certificate on your PC. Once CA
issues
> > > > your computer a certificate you export it and send it off on floppy
or
> > USB.
> > > > My advice is here to use strong password for protection of private
keys.
> > > > Send private keys in separate shipment or even better tell them over
a
> > > > phone...
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > "Eddie Wedensworth" <auto3545@hushmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:9d76f9da.0408231122.35ea9c78@posting.google.com...
> > > > > Here's my scenario: We're doing L2TP VPNs, and we have a very well
> > > > > functional internal PKI set up (doing EAP-TLS for interal
wireless, so
> > > > > it's well tested).
> > > > >
> > > > > In doing L2TP VPNs, we need to get certificates on the clients--a
User
> > > > > level certificate stored in the local computer store. That's easy,
we
> > > > > do it with autoenrollment and a GPO on the domain.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I have 2 clients that are not part of my domain that need
to
> > > > > get a computer certificate. I can get them the certs for my Root
and
> > > > > issuing certificate authorities, that's easy, but how in the world
do
> > > > > I get them a computer certificate?
> > > > >
> > > > > Please note, they are completely disconnected. Our Certificate
server
> > > > > is not reachable from the outside world, nor are these computers
going
> > > > > to be toted into the office to be on my network anytime soon. I'm
not
> > > > > doing PPTP to get them in without certificates to make the
request.
> > > > > How can I make a request on their behalf and export something that
I
> > > > > can send via floppy or USB? We're not ready to do smartcards yet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gratzi
> > > > >
> > > > > Edd
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Paul Adare
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.



Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by auto3545

auto3545
Wed Aug 25 14:46:36 CDT 2004

Paul Adare - MVP - Microsoft Virtual PC <padare@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1b962cd376a0dcec989a24@msnews.microsoft.com>...

> >
> > Another option would be to use web interface
> > (http://cert_server/certutil/...) and make a request based on IPSec
> > certificate template (IPSec Offline Request). This depends quite a bit on
> > your VPN configuration. Main question is do you use IPSec and do you use
> > certificates for authentication. If you only use L2TP this won't help...
>
> This is the correct solution, though since the systems in question can't
> reach the CA, you'll need to request the certificates from a system that
> can reach the CA, and then make those certificates available to the
> external systems. The reason this solution will work is that this
> particular template is configured so that the subject name is provided
> in the request (you enter it in the web UI) rather than being built from
> Active Directory.
>

All right, I've added the IPSec Offline Request template into my
issuing CA, and requested a certificate of this type. Do I set it up
as exportable and send out the private key as well as the public key,
or is just the public key necessary on the machine outside?

Forgive my ignorance.

Eddie.

Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by Paul

Paul
Wed Aug 25 15:06:24 CDT 2004

In article <9d76f9da.0408251146.33201e32@posting.google.com>, in the
microsoft.public.security news group, Eddie Wedensworth <auto3545
@hushmail.com> says...

> All right, I've added the IPSec Offline Request template into my
> issuing CA, and requested a certificate of this type. Do I set it up
> as exportable and send out the private key as well as the public key,
> or is just the public key necessary on the machine outside?
>

You need both keys for the certificate to be of any use.

--
Paul Adare
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by auto3545

auto3545
Thu Aug 26 10:11:26 CDT 2004

Paul Adare - MVP - Microsoft Virtual PC <padare@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1b96bb4b84b5f22989a29@msnews.microsoft.com>...
> In article <9d76f9da.0408251146.33201e32@posting.google.com>, in the
> microsoft.public.security news group, Eddie Wedensworth <auto3545
> @hushmail.com> says...
>
> > All right, I've added the IPSec Offline Request template into my
> > issuing CA, and requested a certificate of this type. Do I set it up
> > as exportable and send out the private key as well as the public key,
> > or is just the public key necessary on the machine outside?
> >
>
> You need both keys for the certificate to be of any use.

Just so I understand this, then, I have to install the key on my
machine that's "inside" and can see the CA, then export it with the
Certificate snap-in from MMC and get it to my "outside" machine?

Thanks!

-Edd

Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by Paul

Paul
Thu Aug 26 10:50:50 CDT 2004

In article <9d76f9da.0408260711.69ef3d1e@posting.google.com>, in the
microsoft.public.security news group, Eddie Wedensworth <auto3545
@hushmail.com> says...

> Just so I understand this, then, I have to install the key on my
> machine that's "inside" and can see the CA, then export it with the
> Certificate snap-in from MMC and get it to my "outside" machine?
>

No. When you're requesting the certificate, click the Mark keys as
exportable check box, then click the Export keys to file check box and
enter a location and name for the file.

That will create a PKCS#12 file that you can then transport to your
remote users.

--
Paul Adare
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by auto3545

auto3545
Tue Aug 31 15:20:29 CDT 2004

Paul Adare - MVP - Microsoft Virtual PC <padare@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1b97d0e5e781bd34989a2f@msnews.microsoft.com>...
> In article <9d76f9da.0408260711.69ef3d1e@posting.google.com>, in the
> microsoft.public.security news group, Eddie Wedensworth <auto3545
> @hushmail.com> says...
>
> > Just so I understand this, then, I have to install the key on my
> > machine that's "inside" and can see the CA, then export it with the
> > Certificate snap-in from MMC and get it to my "outside" machine?
> >
>
> No. When you're requesting the certificate, click the Mark keys as
> exportable check box, then click the Export keys to file check box and
> enter a location and name for the file.
>
> That will create a PKCS#12 file that you can then transport to your
> remote users.


Gotcha. Thanks very very much!

Re: Create a computer certificate for non-connected machine? by auto3545

auto3545
Tue Aug 31 15:52:57 CDT 2004

Paul Adare - MVP - Microsoft Virtual PC <padare@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1b97d0e5e781bd34989a2f@msnews.microsoft.com>...
> In article <9d76f9da.0408260711.69ef3d1e@posting.google.com>, in the
> microsoft.public.security news group, Eddie Wedensworth <auto3545
> @hushmail.com> says...
>
> > Just so I understand this, then, I have to install the key on my
> > machine that's "inside" and can see the CA, then export it with the
> > Certificate snap-in from MMC and get it to my "outside" machine?
> >
>
> No. When you're requesting the certificate, click the Mark keys as
> exportable check box, then click the Export keys to file check box and
> enter a location and name for the file.
>
> That will create a PKCS#12 file that you can then transport to your
> remote users.


Okay, I followed through and tried this. The IPSEC (Offline Request)
type does not allow me to Mark keys as exportable. I can save what I
have, but no matter what the pfx file type is, I get errors on the
client saying "This file is invalid for use as the following: Personal
Information Exchange."

odd? Is the IPSec (Offline Request) Template correct? I cannot set it
even with the template manager to allow exportable keys.