My boss has charged me with the task of:
being able to:

1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when Project
"messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no matter
what resources we throw at it)
2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every button
click.
3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
4) explain HOW does it calculate???

I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the mortgage
will fall behind, etc, etc).

My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing this
hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)

My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:

I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that it
calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I predict
every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set up
(task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to its
pred/successors.
I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved Resource
Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over to
working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....

Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what it
will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of the
schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean w=d*u
is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules, correct?

Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
impossible?
I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?

RE: No pressure or anything! (HA!) (Long) by lamby74

lamby74
Wed Oct 27 13:31:03 CDT 2004

an addendum to my initial post....
my boss wants to be able to show that recources are assigned to tasks, but
have us be in complete control of the overall timeline.
He is frustrated because he can set up an initial timeline and get really
neat looking reports, but that once we "throw resources at it" MSP, OR make
any changes at all to anything after that initial set up, MSP behaves
unpredictable and messes up our timeline. He is confident in the software
only from the DAY 1 set up.

From there on out, it appears to him to be a black hole of unanswered
questions, illogical inconsistencies, and rogue-ish behavior. I can tell him
generalities why MSP did what it did, ie "MSP split task a because we
selected the splitting option, automatic scheduling is on, and because we
have Bob assigned to Task B which runs concurrently, yadda, yadda....., so he
is overallocated...", but he wants a deeper explanation than that.

We KNOW what our timeline is already...we don't want MSP to tell us. We
just want it for the "pretty" reporting.
Give to to me straight all....maybe MSP is the completely WRONG software for
us to be using.

The best I could hope out of this post is for someone to tell me HOW to
completely and RELIABLY and with 100% predictability to TURN OFF MSP's
scheduling engine.

"lamby74" wrote:

> My boss has charged me with the task of:
> being able to:
>
> 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when Project
> "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no matter
> what resources we throw at it)
> 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every button
> click.
> 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
> 4) explain HOW does it calculate???
>
> I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
> this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the mortgage
> will fall behind, etc, etc).
>
> My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
> Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
> un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing this
> hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)
>
> My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
>
> I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that it
> calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I predict
> every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set up
> (task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
> pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to its
> pred/successors.
> I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved Resource
> Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over to
> working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
>
> Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what it
> will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of the
> schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean w=d*u
> is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules, correct?
>
> Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
> impossible?
> I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
> bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
> that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?

Re: No pressure or anything! (HA!) (Long) by Dale

Dale
Wed Oct 27 14:30:05 CDT 2004

lamby74 --

I believe you are in a pretty tough spot. Neither you nor your boss seems
to know even the basics of how to use Microsoft Project, nor do either of
you understand how the software actually works. Because of this, your
boss's expectations of both you and the software will be pretty much
impossible to achieve and are destined to fail.

Your questions are too lengthy for a response in this newsgroup. I would
strongly recommend that both you AND your boss take a good 2-day or 3-day
course in how to properly use Microsoft Project. As you seek out a training
partner, I would recommend that you avoid "point and click" training classes
at commerical training centers, and focus instead on using the services of a
Microsoft Project Partner whose curriculum will be based on "real world"
usage of the software.

Feel free to show this message to your boss if you think it would help your
situation. Hope this helps.

--
Dale A. Howard [MVP]
Enterprise Project Trainer/Consultant
http://www.msprojectexperts.com
"We wrote the book on Project Server"


"lamby74" <lamby74@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5C074B91-5E06-4C88-AF84-50529B176728@microsoft.com...
> an addendum to my initial post....
> my boss wants to be able to show that recources are assigned to tasks, but
> have us be in complete control of the overall timeline.
> He is frustrated because he can set up an initial timeline and get really
> neat looking reports, but that once we "throw resources at it" MSP, OR
> make
> any changes at all to anything after that initial set up, MSP behaves
> unpredictable and messes up our timeline. He is confident in the
> software
> only from the DAY 1 set up.
>
> From there on out, it appears to him to be a black hole of unanswered
> questions, illogical inconsistencies, and rogue-ish behavior. I can tell
> him
> generalities why MSP did what it did, ie "MSP split task a because we
> selected the splitting option, automatic scheduling is on, and because we
> have Bob assigned to Task B which runs concurrently, yadda, yadda....., so
> he
> is overallocated...", but he wants a deeper explanation than that.
>
> We KNOW what our timeline is already...we don't want MSP to tell us. We
> just want it for the "pretty" reporting.
> Give to to me straight all....maybe MSP is the completely WRONG software
> for
> us to be using.
>
> The best I could hope out of this post is for someone to tell me HOW to
> completely and RELIABLY and with 100% predictability to TURN OFF MSP's
> scheduling engine.
>
> "lamby74" wrote:
>
>> My boss has charged me with the task of:
>> being able to:
>>
>> 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when
>> Project
>> "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no
>> matter
>> what resources we throw at it)
>> 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every
>> button
>> click.
>> 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
>> 4) explain HOW does it calculate???
>>
>> I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
>> this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the
>> mortgage
>> will fall behind, etc, etc).
>>
>> My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
>> Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
>> un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing
>> this
>> hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)
>>
>> My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
>>
>> I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that
>> it
>> calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I
>> predict
>> every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set
>> up
>> (task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
>> pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to
>> its
>> pred/successors.
>> I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved
>> Resource
>> Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over
>> to
>> working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
>>
>> Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what
>> it
>> will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of
>> the
>> schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean
>> w=d*u
>> is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules,
>> correct?
>>
>> Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
>> impossible?
>> I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
>> bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
>> that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?



Re: No pressure or anything! (HA!) (Long) by lamby74

lamby74
Wed Oct 27 14:43:06 CDT 2004

Thanks for giving it to me straight, Dale, that's what I want to hear.

How about anyone else? I need to hear a variety of opinions.

I want to know if I am going to hear a "Then why are you using MSP in the
first place?!?!" kind of response.

"Dale Howard [MVP]" wrote:

> lamby74 --
>
> I believe you are in a pretty tough spot. Neither you nor your boss seems
> to know even the basics of how to use Microsoft Project, nor do either of
> you understand how the software actually works. Because of this, your
> boss's expectations of both you and the software will be pretty much
> impossible to achieve and are destined to fail.
>
> Your questions are too lengthy for a response in this newsgroup. I would
> strongly recommend that both you AND your boss take a good 2-day or 3-day
> course in how to properly use Microsoft Project. As you seek out a training
> partner, I would recommend that you avoid "point and click" training classes
> at commerical training centers, and focus instead on using the services of a
> Microsoft Project Partner whose curriculum will be based on "real world"
> usage of the software.
>
> Feel free to show this message to your boss if you think it would help your
> situation. Hope this helps.
>
> --
> Dale A. Howard [MVP]
> Enterprise Project Trainer/Consultant
> http://www.msprojectexperts.com
> "We wrote the book on Project Server"
>
>
> "lamby74" <lamby74@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:5C074B91-5E06-4C88-AF84-50529B176728@microsoft.com...
> > an addendum to my initial post....
> > my boss wants to be able to show that recources are assigned to tasks, but
> > have us be in complete control of the overall timeline.
> > He is frustrated because he can set up an initial timeline and get really
> > neat looking reports, but that once we "throw resources at it" MSP, OR
> > make
> > any changes at all to anything after that initial set up, MSP behaves
> > unpredictable and messes up our timeline. He is confident in the
> > software
> > only from the DAY 1 set up.
> >
> > From there on out, it appears to him to be a black hole of unanswered
> > questions, illogical inconsistencies, and rogue-ish behavior. I can tell
> > him
> > generalities why MSP did what it did, ie "MSP split task a because we
> > selected the splitting option, automatic scheduling is on, and because we
> > have Bob assigned to Task B which runs concurrently, yadda, yadda....., so
> > he
> > is overallocated...", but he wants a deeper explanation than that.
> >
> > We KNOW what our timeline is already...we don't want MSP to tell us. We
> > just want it for the "pretty" reporting.
> > Give to to me straight all....maybe MSP is the completely WRONG software
> > for
> > us to be using.
> >
> > The best I could hope out of this post is for someone to tell me HOW to
> > completely and RELIABLY and with 100% predictability to TURN OFF MSP's
> > scheduling engine.
> >
> > "lamby74" wrote:
> >
> >> My boss has charged me with the task of:
> >> being able to:
> >>
> >> 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when
> >> Project
> >> "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no
> >> matter
> >> what resources we throw at it)
> >> 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every
> >> button
> >> click.
> >> 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
> >> 4) explain HOW does it calculate???
> >>
> >> I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
> >> this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the
> >> mortgage
> >> will fall behind, etc, etc).
> >>
> >> My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
> >> Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
> >> un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing
> >> this
> >> hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)
> >>
> >> My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
> >>
> >> I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that
> >> it
> >> calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I
> >> predict
> >> every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set
> >> up
> >> (task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
> >> pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to
> >> its
> >> pred/successors.
> >> I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved
> >> Resource
> >> Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over
> >> to
> >> working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
> >>
> >> Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what
> >> it
> >> will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of
> >> the
> >> schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean
> >> w=d*u
> >> is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules,
> >> correct?
> >>
> >> Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
> >> impossible?
> >> I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
> >> bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
> >> that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?
>
>
>

Re: No pressure or anything! (HA!) (Long) by Steve

Steve
Wed Oct 27 15:05:28 CDT 2004

I'm not sure on the task splitting you're getting because I don't have
specific information to work with but some general considerations.

No offense intended but IMO you DON'T know what the timeline is. What you
know is what you HOPE the timeline might be, wishful thinking without basis
in fact. If Project is telling you something different from what you
expect, Project's version is more likely to be a valid predictor of what's
going to happen when you go out and try to have resources actually do the
work.

The fundamental problem seems to be that your boss wants to tell Project
what the timeline will be. That's getting it backwards, IMHO. Project's
fundamental job is to tell HIM what timeline he can reasonably expect to
achieve given what needs to be done, the amount of work each part of it will
take, and the assets he has at his disposal to do it. He doesn't tell
Project the timeline; Project tells HIM the timeline that will result from
what he has input as the tasks and resources. If its results don't make him
happy, he can't just kludge it to make it look better by,say, turning off
recalculation, he actually has to change the input - change the project
scope, obtain more resources, find ways to work more efficiently, look for
sequenced tasks that could be done in parallel, etc. If he chooses not to
pay attention, he's trying to force a square peg down a round hole and it's
very likely the project will fail.

W=D*E is not an approximation or a watered-down generality, that is exactly
how Project calculates in every single instance. No exceptions. The task
type influences it in the sense that any linear equation has an independent
variable, a dependent variable, and a constant. We have a task estimated at
5 day and assign someone to it who works 8 hours per day giving 100% of
their attention to it. That means the work required to create that task's
deliverable is 40 man-hours. Now I'm going to change something. What
factors in my equation are the variables and what factor is the constant?
If it's constant work, I can change the duration and have project calculate
the percentage or change the percentage and have project recalculate the
duration. In most cases I think that is the appropriate setting because work
usually takes what it's going to take and there's not a lot of control you
have over it. If it usually takes me a month to write a program module
it's not likely I can do one in 2 weeks just because someone says I have to,
at least not and maintain quality. Or I can choose to hold the duration
constant or hold the percentage constant. What determines the setting? My
understanding of the nature of the work and the resources assigned to it.

If your boss has set up a timeline and it gets scrambled when you assign
resources, that is telling you something valuable. What it is telling you
is that when you have your resources work according to the way you want to
assign them, that timeline is unrealistic. Project is telling him what he
will GET, not just parroting what he wants. If what it calculates after
assigning resources is not what he wants the project to be and the model is
otherwise valid with regard to links etc, he has to do one of two things -
either change his expectations or re-think the resource assignments. (You
might show him this message so he doesn't blame you for the bad news
<grin>.) If he is unwilling to do either, IT IS VERY LIKELY THE PROJECT
WILL FAIL!!!! The reason Project does what it does is to alert you to that
fact early enough to have a chance of doing something to prevent it.

Work can only takes place when resources are there, available to work, and
not otherwise committed to other conflicting tasks. That seems obvious but
it is a point often overlooked by eager bosses. If Bill is scheduled to be
on holiday Monday and he is assigned to a task currently scheduled for
Monday, the task must move to Tuesday so its schedule changes to conform to
when he is going to be there. Non-working time is not scheduled around the
task requirements unless you do it manually, editing the resource calendar
to move nonworking time that is causing tasks to shift unacceptably to days
that work better for you; tasks are scheduled around resource non-working
time as defined by the calendar. Secondly, resources cannot be in 2 places
at once. If I have task A on Monday and also task B and I assign Bill to
both of them and expect him to devote 100% attention to each, he simply
cannot do it. The assignment percentage defines how much work out we get
for each hour of time put in and while we might get less than the maximum we
can never get more. In one hour of duration it is physically impossible for
one person to generate more than one man-hour's worth of work output. If
the person is scheduled for 100% on Task A for Monday and also scheduled
100% for Task B, also on Monday, it is impossible for that to be worked as
planned. You might publish such a schedule but when the time comes to do
the work, he WILL be late for one or both of the tasks, guaranteed! That's
what Project is trying to tell your boss only he doesn't seem to want to
hear it. So how does Project resolve the situation? It moves one of those
tasks to Tuesday (assuming the resource is free) when you trigger leveling.
Your original schedule asked for 16 man-hours of work from one person during
an 8 hour duration, an impossibility - the new one calls for 16 man-hours of
work to be produced during a 16 hour duration period, something that *is*
possible for one person to do. Another option is to edit the resource
assignment level so he's working 50% on each task, thus extending the ending
of both of them from Monday to the end of the day Tuesday, again resulting
in 16 total man-hours of work being done in a 16 hour time period. A third
option is to take the guy off of one of the tasks and find someone else who
is presently idle to pick it up. Or finally just not do one of the tasks
altogether, drop it completely from the plan, if you can get away with it.
Anything else, the project will fall behind no matter what your timeline
says.

You *can* be in complete control of the timeline but you can't just
arbitrarily pull time frames out of thin air and expect them to happen. As
I've said in other posts, the command "Number One, make it so!" only works
in the Star Trek movies. For the real world those timelines are driven by
physical processes, not executive fiat, and to control the timeframe you
must manipulate the factors behind it that actually affect it. If I have to
assemble 100 widgets, one person can do a maximum of 10 a day, I only have
one assembler on the payroll, and my budget won't allow overtime, it will
take at least 10 days no matter whether you like it or not. If I need it in
5 to meet a contract deadline, my only options are to get a second assembler
somewhere or spend the money for overtime. Just plucking a mandate out of
thin air and declaring that I'll have the guy do 20 a day just simply won't
work.

Hope this helps ...
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



"lamby74" <lamby74@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5C074B91-5E06-4C88-AF84-50529B176728@microsoft.com...
> an addendum to my initial post....
> my boss wants to be able to show that recources are assigned to tasks, but
> have us be in complete control of the overall timeline.
> He is frustrated because he can set up an initial timeline and get really
> neat looking reports, but that once we "throw resources at it" MSP, OR
> make
> any changes at all to anything after that initial set up, MSP behaves
> unpredictable and messes up our timeline. He is confident in the
> software
> only from the DAY 1 set up.
>
> From there on out, it appears to him to be a black hole of unanswered
> questions, illogical inconsistencies, and rogue-ish behavior. I can tell
> him
> generalities why MSP did what it did, ie "MSP split task a because we
> selected the splitting option, automatic scheduling is on, and because we
> have Bob assigned to Task B which runs concurrently, yadda, yadda....., so
> he
> is overallocated...", but he wants a deeper explanation than that.
>
> We KNOW what our timeline is already...we don't want MSP to tell us. We
> just want it for the "pretty" reporting.
> Give to to me straight all....maybe MSP is the completely WRONG software
> for
> us to be using.
>
> The best I could hope out of this post is for someone to tell me HOW to
> completely and RELIABLY and with 100% predictability to TURN OFF MSP's
> scheduling engine.
>
> "lamby74" wrote:
>
>> My boss has charged me with the task of:
>> being able to:
>>
>> 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when
>> Project
>> "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no
>> matter
>> what resources we throw at it)
>> 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every
>> button
>> click.
>> 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
>> 4) explain HOW does it calculate???
>>
>> I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
>> this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the
>> mortgage
>> will fall behind, etc, etc).
>>
>> My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
>> Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
>> un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing
>> this
>> hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)
>>
>> My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
>>
>> I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that
>> it
>> calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I
>> predict
>> every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set
>> up
>> (task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
>> pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to
>> its
>> pred/successors.
>> I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved
>> Resource
>> Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over
>> to
>> working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
>>
>> Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what
>> it
>> will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of
>> the
>> schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean
>> w=d*u
>> is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules,
>> correct?
>>
>> Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
>> impossible?
>> I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
>> bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
>> that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?



Re: No pressure or anything! (HA!) (Long) by lamby74

lamby74
Wed Oct 27 15:23:01 CDT 2004

Thanks Steve. You and Dale both gave really thoughtful (and time-consuming,
I am sure, ) answers. I am carefully studying both of your responses and
will be showing them to my boss shortly. I'll let you know how it all turns
out.
In the meantime, I welcome more opinions. The more upfront and honest (even
if hard-edged) the better.

Thanks all.

"Steve House [MVP]" wrote:

> I'm not sure on the task splitting you're getting because I don't have
> specific information to work with but some general considerations.
>
> No offense intended but IMO you DON'T know what the timeline is. What you
> know is what you HOPE the timeline might be, wishful thinking without basis
> in fact. If Project is telling you something different from what you
> expect, Project's version is more likely to be a valid predictor of what's
> going to happen when you go out and try to have resources actually do the
> work.
>
> The fundamental problem seems to be that your boss wants to tell Project
> what the timeline will be. That's getting it backwards, IMHO. Project's
> fundamental job is to tell HIM what timeline he can reasonably expect to
> achieve given what needs to be done, the amount of work each part of it will
> take, and the assets he has at his disposal to do it. He doesn't tell
> Project the timeline; Project tells HIM the timeline that will result from
> what he has input as the tasks and resources. If its results don't make him
> happy, he can't just kludge it to make it look better by,say, turning off
> recalculation, he actually has to change the input - change the project
> scope, obtain more resources, find ways to work more efficiently, look for
> sequenced tasks that could be done in parallel, etc. If he chooses not to
> pay attention, he's trying to force a square peg down a round hole and it's
> very likely the project will fail.
>
> W=D*E is not an approximation or a watered-down generality, that is exactly
> how Project calculates in every single instance. No exceptions. The task
> type influences it in the sense that any linear equation has an independent
> variable, a dependent variable, and a constant. We have a task estimated at
> 5 day and assign someone to it who works 8 hours per day giving 100% of
> their attention to it. That means the work required to create that task's
> deliverable is 40 man-hours. Now I'm going to change something. What
> factors in my equation are the variables and what factor is the constant?
> If it's constant work, I can change the duration and have project calculate
> the percentage or change the percentage and have project recalculate the
> duration. In most cases I think that is the appropriate setting because work
> usually takes what it's going to take and there's not a lot of control you
> have over it. If it usually takes me a month to write a program module
> it's not likely I can do one in 2 weeks just because someone says I have to,
> at least not and maintain quality. Or I can choose to hold the duration
> constant or hold the percentage constant. What determines the setting? My
> understanding of the nature of the work and the resources assigned to it.
>
> If your boss has set up a timeline and it gets scrambled when you assign
> resources, that is telling you something valuable. What it is telling you
> is that when you have your resources work according to the way you want to
> assign them, that timeline is unrealistic. Project is telling him what he
> will GET, not just parroting what he wants. If what it calculates after
> assigning resources is not what he wants the project to be and the model is
> otherwise valid with regard to links etc, he has to do one of two things -
> either change his expectations or re-think the resource assignments. (You
> might show him this message so he doesn't blame you for the bad news
> <grin>.) If he is unwilling to do either, IT IS VERY LIKELY THE PROJECT
> WILL FAIL!!!! The reason Project does what it does is to alert you to that
> fact early enough to have a chance of doing something to prevent it.
>
> Work can only takes place when resources are there, available to work, and
> not otherwise committed to other conflicting tasks. That seems obvious but
> it is a point often overlooked by eager bosses. If Bill is scheduled to be
> on holiday Monday and he is assigned to a task currently scheduled for
> Monday, the task must move to Tuesday so its schedule changes to conform to
> when he is going to be there. Non-working time is not scheduled around the
> task requirements unless you do it manually, editing the resource calendar
> to move nonworking time that is causing tasks to shift unacceptably to days
> that work better for you; tasks are scheduled around resource non-working
> time as defined by the calendar. Secondly, resources cannot be in 2 places
> at once. If I have task A on Monday and also task B and I assign Bill to
> both of them and expect him to devote 100% attention to each, he simply
> cannot do it. The assignment percentage defines how much work out we get
> for each hour of time put in and while we might get less than the maximum we
> can never get more. In one hour of duration it is physically impossible for
> one person to generate more than one man-hour's worth of work output. If
> the person is scheduled for 100% on Task A for Monday and also scheduled
> 100% for Task B, also on Monday, it is impossible for that to be worked as
> planned. You might publish such a schedule but when the time comes to do
> the work, he WILL be late for one or both of the tasks, guaranteed! That's
> what Project is trying to tell your boss only he doesn't seem to want to
> hear it. So how does Project resolve the situation? It moves one of those
> tasks to Tuesday (assuming the resource is free) when you trigger leveling.
> Your original schedule asked for 16 man-hours of work from one person during
> an 8 hour duration, an impossibility - the new one calls for 16 man-hours of
> work to be produced during a 16 hour duration period, something that *is*
> possible for one person to do. Another option is to edit the resource
> assignment level so he's working 50% on each task, thus extending the ending
> of both of them from Monday to the end of the day Tuesday, again resulting
> in 16 total man-hours of work being done in a 16 hour time period. A third
> option is to take the guy off of one of the tasks and find someone else who
> is presently idle to pick it up. Or finally just not do one of the tasks
> altogether, drop it completely from the plan, if you can get away with it.
> Anything else, the project will fall behind no matter what your timeline
> says.
>
> You *can* be in complete control of the timeline but you can't just
> arbitrarily pull time frames out of thin air and expect them to happen. As
> I've said in other posts, the command "Number One, make it so!" only works
> in the Star Trek movies. For the real world those timelines are driven by
> physical processes, not executive fiat, and to control the timeframe you
> must manipulate the factors behind it that actually affect it. If I have to
> assemble 100 widgets, one person can do a maximum of 10 a day, I only have
> one assembler on the payroll, and my budget won't allow overtime, it will
> take at least 10 days no matter whether you like it or not. If I need it in
> 5 to meet a contract deadline, my only options are to get a second assembler
> somewhere or spend the money for overtime. Just plucking a mandate out of
> thin air and declaring that I'll have the guy do 20 a day just simply won't
> work.
>
> Hope this helps ...
> --
> Steve House [MVP]
> MS Project Trainer/Consultant
> Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>
>
>
> "lamby74" <lamby74@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:5C074B91-5E06-4C88-AF84-50529B176728@microsoft.com...
> > an addendum to my initial post....
> > my boss wants to be able to show that recources are assigned to tasks, but
> > have us be in complete control of the overall timeline.
> > He is frustrated because he can set up an initial timeline and get really
> > neat looking reports, but that once we "throw resources at it" MSP, OR
> > make
> > any changes at all to anything after that initial set up, MSP behaves
> > unpredictable and messes up our timeline. He is confident in the
> > software
> > only from the DAY 1 set up.
> >
> > From there on out, it appears to him to be a black hole of unanswered
> > questions, illogical inconsistencies, and rogue-ish behavior. I can tell
> > him
> > generalities why MSP did what it did, ie "MSP split task a because we
> > selected the splitting option, automatic scheduling is on, and because we
> > have Bob assigned to Task B which runs concurrently, yadda, yadda....., so
> > he
> > is overallocated...", but he wants a deeper explanation than that.
> >
> > We KNOW what our timeline is already...we don't want MSP to tell us. We
> > just want it for the "pretty" reporting.
> > Give to to me straight all....maybe MSP is the completely WRONG software
> > for
> > us to be using.
> >
> > The best I could hope out of this post is for someone to tell me HOW to
> > completely and RELIABLY and with 100% predictability to TURN OFF MSP's
> > scheduling engine.
> >
> > "lamby74" wrote:
> >
> >> My boss has charged me with the task of:
> >> being able to:
> >>
> >> 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when
> >> Project
> >> "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no
> >> matter
> >> what resources we throw at it)
> >> 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every
> >> button
> >> click.
> >> 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
> >> 4) explain HOW does it calculate???
> >>
> >> I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
> >> this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the
> >> mortgage
> >> will fall behind, etc, etc).
> >>
> >> My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
> >> Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
> >> un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing
> >> this
> >> hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)
> >>
> >> My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
> >>
> >> I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that
> >> it
> >> calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I
> >> predict
> >> every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set
> >> up
> >> (task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
> >> pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to
> >> its
> >> pred/successors.
> >> I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved
> >> Resource
> >> Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over
> >> to
> >> working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
> >>
> >> Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what
> >> it
> >> will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of
> >> the
> >> schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean
> >> w=d*u
> >> is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules,
> >> correct?
> >>
> >> Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
> >> impossible?
> >> I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
> >> bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
> >> that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?
>
>
>

Re: No pressure or anything! (HA!) (Long) by JackD

JackD
Wed Oct 27 15:26:29 CDT 2004

I can't type as fast or as much as Steve House has already done, but on top
of the truth he has told you, here are some helpful hints. They are
interspersed in your post below:

--
-Jack ... For project information and macro examples visit
http://masamiki.com/project

.
"lamby74" <lamby74@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9A6475B1-C6E9-4693-BBF4-E9FB60073518@microsoft.com...
> My boss has charged me with the task of:
> being able to:
>
> 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when
Project
> "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no
matter
> what resources we throw at it)

Go to tools menu. tracking. save baseline. Then switch to the tracking view
or any other view which displays the baseline.
There is not much you can do to screw up the baseline except deleting tasks
or overwriting it by accident.

> 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every button
> click.

No one can unless it is a simple case, Project is supposed to do this for
you. One doesn't expect to know the bottom line in a complicated spreadsheet
before excel calculates it. Project is at it's heart just a schedule
calculator. You write the equation, it does the work. You can practice
writing equations by developing simple schedules (with two or three tasks)
and trying out the various settings. This is a very good way to learn.

> 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.

It is all explained in the help. You just need to read it and read it again
and then one more time to be sure. Did I mention practicing on small
schedules.

> 4) explain HOW does it calculate???

See above and above that.

> I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
> this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the
mortgage
> will fall behind, etc, etc).
>
> My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
> Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
> un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing this
> hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)

No. When you have the schedule the way you want, save a baseline and a copy
of the file. Any edits from this point on will affect your schedule and
there is no undo.

> My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
>
> I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that
it
> calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I
predict
> every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set up
> (task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
> pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to
its
> pred/successors.

This is true. It all depends on the equation and conditions you have set.
Try some practice schedules with tasks set to various types (effort driven
or not, Fixed work, fixed duration, fixed units). Project is supposed to
give you an answer. If you have a correct model it (generally - there are
cases where there may be a bug) gives you a correct answer. This is the
whole purpose of the tool.

> I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved
Resource
> Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over
to
> working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
>
> Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what it
> will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of
the
> schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean
w=d*u
> is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules,
correct?

Yes, but at a certain point it becomes rather complicated and overwhelms my
brain. To retain sanity, I simplify my schedules to a certain extent and
only model what it important. I also do not worry about the occasional
minute or even day that it may be off. In any event, plans and predictions
of the future can not be 100% accurate. Expecting that they are is, to put
it mildly, insane.

> Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
> impossible?

No.

> I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
> bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
> that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?

I think you can give him bottom-line answers with a little practice. They
may not be the answer he wants, but project just does what it is told.

-Jack



Re: No pressure or anything! (HA!) (Long) by Rob

Rob
Thu Oct 28 00:20:17 CDT 2004

No debate needed. Steve and Dale have given you the "right" answers.

Focus your energy on getting your boss re-orientated and re-trained.

lamby74 wrote:
> Thanks Steve. You and Dale both gave really thoughtful (and time-consuming,
> I am sure, ) answers. I am carefully studying both of your responses and
> will be showing them to my boss shortly. I'll let you know how it all turns
> out.
> In the meantime, I welcome more opinions. The more upfront and honest (even
> if hard-edged) the better.
>
> Thanks all.
>
> "Steve House [MVP]" wrote:
>
>
>>I'm not sure on the task splitting you're getting because I don't have
>>specific information to work with but some general considerations.
>>
>>No offense intended but IMO you DON'T know what the timeline is. What you
>>know is what you HOPE the timeline might be, wishful thinking without basis
>>in fact. If Project is telling you something different from what you
>>expect, Project's version is more likely to be a valid predictor of what's
>>going to happen when you go out and try to have resources actually do the
>>work.
>>
>>The fundamental problem seems to be that your boss wants to tell Project
>>what the timeline will be. That's getting it backwards, IMHO. Project's
>>fundamental job is to tell HIM what timeline he can reasonably expect to
>>achieve given what needs to be done, the amount of work each part of it will
>>take, and the assets he has at his disposal to do it. He doesn't tell
>>Project the timeline; Project tells HIM the timeline that will result from
>>what he has input as the tasks and resources. If its results don't make him
>>happy, he can't just kludge it to make it look better by,say, turning off
>>recalculation, he actually has to change the input - change the project
>>scope, obtain more resources, find ways to work more efficiently, look for
>>sequenced tasks that could be done in parallel, etc. If he chooses not to
>>pay attention, he's trying to force a square peg down a round hole and it's
>>very likely the project will fail.
>>
>>W=D*E is not an approximation or a watered-down generality, that is exactly
>>how Project calculates in every single instance. No exceptions. The task
>>type influences it in the sense that any linear equation has an independent
>>variable, a dependent variable, and a constant. We have a task estimated at
>>5 day and assign someone to it who works 8 hours per day giving 100% of
>>their attention to it. That means the work required to create that task's
>>deliverable is 40 man-hours. Now I'm going to change something. What
>>factors in my equation are the variables and what factor is the constant?
>>If it's constant work, I can change the duration and have project calculate
>>the percentage or change the percentage and have project recalculate the
>>duration. In most cases I think that is the appropriate setting because work
>>usually takes what it's going to take and there's not a lot of control you
>>have over it. If it usually takes me a month to write a program module
>>it's not likely I can do one in 2 weeks just because someone says I have to,
>>at least not and maintain quality. Or I can choose to hold the duration
>>constant or hold the percentage constant. What determines the setting? My
>>understanding of the nature of the work and the resources assigned to it.
>>
>>If your boss has set up a timeline and it gets scrambled when you assign
>>resources, that is telling you something valuable. What it is telling you
>>is that when you have your resources work according to the way you want to
>>assign them, that timeline is unrealistic. Project is telling him what he
>>will GET, not just parroting what he wants. If what it calculates after
>>assigning resources is not what he wants the project to be and the model is
>>otherwise valid with regard to links etc, he has to do one of two things -
>>either change his expectations or re-think the resource assignments. (You
>>might show him this message so he doesn't blame you for the bad news
>><grin>.) If he is unwilling to do either, IT IS VERY LIKELY THE PROJECT
>>WILL FAIL!!!! The reason Project does what it does is to alert you to that
>>fact early enough to have a chance of doing something to prevent it.
>>
>>Work can only takes place when resources are there, available to work, and
>>not otherwise committed to other conflicting tasks. That seems obvious but
>>it is a point often overlooked by eager bosses. If Bill is scheduled to be
>>on holiday Monday and he is assigned to a task currently scheduled for
>>Monday, the task must move to Tuesday so its schedule changes to conform to
>>when he is going to be there. Non-working time is not scheduled around the
>>task requirements unless you do it manually, editing the resource calendar
>>to move nonworking time that is causing tasks to shift unacceptably to days
>>that work better for you; tasks are scheduled around resource non-working
>>time as defined by the calendar. Secondly, resources cannot be in 2 places
>>at once. If I have task A on Monday and also task B and I assign Bill to
>>both of them and expect him to devote 100% attention to each, he simply
>>cannot do it. The assignment percentage defines how much work out we get
>>for each hour of time put in and while we might get less than the maximum we
>>can never get more. In one hour of duration it is physically impossible for
>>one person to generate more than one man-hour's worth of work output. If
>>the person is scheduled for 100% on Task A for Monday and also scheduled
>>100% for Task B, also on Monday, it is impossible for that to be worked as
>>planned. You might publish such a schedule but when the time comes to do
>>the work, he WILL be late for one or both of the tasks, guaranteed! That's
>>what Project is trying to tell your boss only he doesn't seem to want to
>>hear it. So how does Project resolve the situation? It moves one of those
>>tasks to Tuesday (assuming the resource is free) when you trigger leveling.
>>Your original schedule asked for 16 man-hours of work from one person during
>>an 8 hour duration, an impossibility - the new one calls for 16 man-hours of
>>work to be produced during a 16 hour duration period, something that *is*
>>possible for one person to do. Another option is to edit the resource
>>assignment level so he's working 50% on each task, thus extending the ending
>>of both of them from Monday to the end of the day Tuesday, again resulting
>>in 16 total man-hours of work being done in a 16 hour time period. A third
>>option is to take the guy off of one of the tasks and find someone else who
>>is presently idle to pick it up. Or finally just not do one of the tasks
>>altogether, drop it completely from the plan, if you can get away with it.
>>Anything else, the project will fall behind no matter what your timeline
>>says.
>>
>>You *can* be in complete control of the timeline but you can't just
>>arbitrarily pull time frames out of thin air and expect them to happen. As
>>I've said in other posts, the command "Number One, make it so!" only works
>>in the Star Trek movies. For the real world those timelines are driven by
>>physical processes, not executive fiat, and to control the timeframe you
>>must manipulate the factors behind it that actually affect it. If I have to
>>assemble 100 widgets, one person can do a maximum of 10 a day, I only have
>>one assembler on the payroll, and my budget won't allow overtime, it will
>>take at least 10 days no matter whether you like it or not. If I need it in
>>5 to meet a contract deadline, my only options are to get a second assembler
>>somewhere or spend the money for overtime. Just plucking a mandate out of
>>thin air and declaring that I'll have the guy do 20 a day just simply won't
>>work.
>>
>>Hope this helps ...
>>--
>>Steve House [MVP]
>>MS Project Trainer/Consultant
>>Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>>
>>
>>
>>"lamby74" <lamby74@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>news:5C074B91-5E06-4C88-AF84-50529B176728@microsoft.com...
>>
>>>an addendum to my initial post....
>>>my boss wants to be able to show that recources are assigned to tasks, but
>>>have us be in complete control of the overall timeline.
>>>He is frustrated because he can set up an initial timeline and get really
>>>neat looking reports, but that once we "throw resources at it" MSP, OR
>>>make
>>>any changes at all to anything after that initial set up, MSP behaves
>>>unpredictable and messes up our timeline. He is confident in the
>>>software
>>>only from the DAY 1 set up.
>>>
>>>From there on out, it appears to him to be a black hole of unanswered
>>>questions, illogical inconsistencies, and rogue-ish behavior. I can tell
>>>him
>>>generalities why MSP did what it did, ie "MSP split task a because we
>>>selected the splitting option, automatic scheduling is on, and because we
>>>have Bob assigned to Task B which runs concurrently, yadda, yadda....., so
>>>he
>>>is overallocated...", but he wants a deeper explanation than that.
>>>
>>>We KNOW what our timeline is already...we don't want MSP to tell us. We
>>>just want it for the "pretty" reporting.
>>>Give to to me straight all....maybe MSP is the completely WRONG software
>>>for
>>>us to be using.
>>>
>>>The best I could hope out of this post is for someone to tell me HOW to
>>>completely and RELIABLY and with 100% predictability to TURN OFF MSP's
>>>scheduling engine.
>>>
>>>"lamby74" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>My boss has charged me with the task of:
>>>>being able to:
>>>>
>>>>1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when
>>>>Project
>>>>"messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no
>>>>matter
>>>>what resources we throw at it)
>>>>2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every
>>>>button
>>>>click.
>>>>3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
>>>>4) explain HOW does it calculate???
>>>>
>>>>I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
>>>>this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the
>>>>mortgage
>>>>will fall behind, etc, etc).
>>>>
>>>>My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
>>>>Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
>>>>un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing
>>>>this
>>>>hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)
>>>>
>>>>My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
>>>>
>>>>I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that
>>>>it
>>>>calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I
>>>>predict
>>>>every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set
>>>>up
>>>>(task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
>>>>pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to
>>>>its
>>>>pred/successors.
>>>>I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved
>>>>Resource
>>>>Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over
>>>>to
>>>>working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
>>>>
>>>>Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what
>>>>it
>>>>will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of
>>>>the
>>>>schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean
>>>>w=d*u
>>>>is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules,
>>>>correct?
>>>>
>>>>Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
>>>>impossible?
>>>>I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
>>>>bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
>>>>that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?
>>
>>
>>

Re: No pressure or anything! (HA!) (Long) by JamesG

JamesG
Thu Oct 28 06:59:06 CDT 2004

Excellent answers by all!

We are controlled by a Director (and not all that old) who prefers to run
multi-million $ projects via the use of pencils and colouring-crayons. He
wants what your boss wants....and its embarrassing to listen to his
tub-thumping, bible-bashing, Utopian expectations of the software. The only
certainty is that if each resource does exactly the quantity of work
scheduled, on whatever day, and absolutely nothing changes...then you will
complete the project on the day that the programme says. However, there are
very few people who really appreciate the complexities, subtleties and
nuances of the dynamics of design-engineering. This is mainly due to the fact
that they ignore the basic tenet: W=D*U, and each person can only do one
thing at a time.

MSP is not perfect...no software is perfect. It has some *interesting
characteristics*...and they have to be learned via basic experimentation.
I've been doing this for six years....and I can only predict with 98%
certainty what will happen if I press button *X*.

If it's any consolation, I was "politically removed" from a project. My EV
Analysis (directly from the programme) was telling me that we were incurring
a massive over-spend via a SPI of 0.76. I produced the graphs etc....but they
never bothered listening. It just so happend that the client was doing
exactly the same thing, but using Primavera...and his result was a SPI of
0.77. It was only when the client told our Director, that Mr. Director took
any notice. Anyway, they blamed MSP, blah, blah, blah...but they *had to be
seen to be doing something* so they removed me. Mr.Director still doesn't
believe in using MSP...but in using Primavera...but that's only because it
was the client who uses it....so it must be right,...mustn't it?? He
conveniently forgets that it was our programme data that was fed into the
client's programme in the first place.

Tell you boss that even though MSP appears simple...and almost anyone can
get a pretty-picture from it (that being one of it's major advantages)...it
is really a highly specialised piece of software. Many things take a minute
to learn, but a lifetime to master.

Best of luck.

James.G

"JackD" wrote:

> I can't type as fast or as much as Steve House has already done, but on top
> of the truth he has told you, here are some helpful hints. They are
> interspersed in your post below:
>
> --
> -Jack ... For project information and macro examples visit
> http://masamiki.com/project
>
> ..
> "lamby74" <lamby74@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:9A6475B1-C6E9-4693-BBF4-E9FB60073518@microsoft.com...
> > My boss has charged me with the task of:
> > being able to:
> >
> > 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when
> Project
> > "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no
> matter
> > what resources we throw at it)
>
> Go to tools menu. tracking. save baseline. Then switch to the tracking view
> or any other view which displays the baseline.
> There is not much you can do to screw up the baseline except deleting tasks
> or overwriting it by accident.
>
> > 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every button
> > click.
>
> No one can unless it is a simple case, Project is supposed to do this for
> you. One doesn't expect to know the bottom line in a complicated spreadsheet
> before excel calculates it. Project is at it's heart just a schedule
> calculator. You write the equation, it does the work. You can practice
> writing equations by developing simple schedules (with two or three tasks)
> and trying out the various settings. This is a very good way to learn.
>
> > 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
>
> It is all explained in the help. You just need to read it and read it again
> and then one more time to be sure. Did I mention practicing on small
> schedules.
>
> > 4) explain HOW does it calculate???
>
> See above and above that.
>
> > I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
> > this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the
> mortgage
> > will fall behind, etc, etc).
> >
> > My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
> > Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
> > un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing this
> > hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)
>
> No. When you have the schedule the way you want, save a baseline and a copy
> of the file. Any edits from this point on will affect your schedule and
> there is no undo.
>
> > My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
> >
> > I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that
> it
> > calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I
> predict
> > every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set up
> > (task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
> > pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to
> its
> > pred/successors.
>
> This is true. It all depends on the equation and conditions you have set.
> Try some practice schedules with tasks set to various types (effort driven
> or not, Fixed work, fixed duration, fixed units). Project is supposed to
> give you an answer. If you have a correct model it (generally - there are
> cases where there may be a bug) gives you a correct answer. This is the
> whole purpose of the tool.
>
> > I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved
> Resource
> > Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over
> to
> > working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
> >
> > Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what it
> > will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of
> the
> > schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean
> w=d*u
> > is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules,
> correct?
>
> Yes, but at a certain point it becomes rather complicated and overwhelms my
> brain. To retain sanity, I simplify my schedules to a certain extent and
> only model what it important. I also do not worry about the occasional
> minute or even day that it may be off. In any event, plans and predictions
> of the future can not be 100% accurate. Expecting that they are is, to put
> it mildly, insane.
>
> > Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
> > impossible?
>
> No.
>
> > I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
> > bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
> > that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?
>
> I think you can give him bottom-line answers with a little practice. They
> may not be the answer he wants, but project just does what it is told.
>
> -Jack
>
>
>

RESULTS OF ALL YOUR REPLIES by lamby74

lamby74
Thu Oct 28 09:17:28 CDT 2004

I am very excited, everyone. I go into a meeting with my boss within the hour.

I took all of your posts to him between yesterday afternoon and the new ones
I found this morning. He is now onto a new line of thinking. Because of all
of you, my boss is ceasing to try to "fit a square peg in a round hole" as
Steve House put it, and is willing to discuss just letting MSP "do it's
thing".

He is willing to try freezing (saving) a baseline, which is the timeline as
he wants it, saving a copy of if in another file so he can see it in Gantt
view if he wants, then let MSP schedule us as it will. He is willing to
discuss just trusting the software, instead of charging me with trying to
predict it with 100% accuracy (only truly possible if I had access to the
algorithms in the code behind the software).

Wish me luck...I'll let you know how it turns out.

"lamby74" wrote:

> My boss has charged me with the task of:
> being able to:
>
> 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when Project
> "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no matter
> what resources we throw at it)
> 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every button
> click.
> 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
> 4) explain HOW does it calculate???
>
> I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
> this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the mortgage
> will fall behind, etc, etc).
>
> My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
> Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
> un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing this
> hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)
>
> My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
>
> I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that it
> calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I predict
> every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set up
> (task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
> pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to its
> pred/successors.
> I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved Resource
> Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over to
> working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
>
> Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what it
> will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of the
> schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean w=d*u
> is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules, correct?
>
> Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
> impossible?
> I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
> bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
> that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?

Re: RESULTS OF ALL YOUR REPLIES by Steve

Steve
Thu Oct 28 09:36:28 CDT 2004

You might want to keep in mind and present to your boss that by doing its
calculations Project is actually giving you a model that can predict the
consequences of exercising the management controls you have over the
project. That, in turn, allows you to manage proactively, able to actually
reliably manipulate the project environment so the outcome really does meet
your business requirements. It's not enough to say "we need to be finished
by the first of next year." Project allows you to actually figure out
exactly what steps to take, in terms of organizing the work and deploying
the resources, to make that happen.

Best of luck


--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



"lamby74" <lamby74@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:D36B8903-FA51-449F-857C-A0C4A5D0E394@microsoft.com...
>I am very excited, everyone. I go into a meeting with my boss within the
>hour.
>
> I took all of your posts to him between yesterday afternoon and the new
> ones
> I found this morning. He is now onto a new line of thinking. Because of
> all
> of you, my boss is ceasing to try to "fit a square peg in a round hole" as
> Steve House put it, and is willing to discuss just letting MSP "do it's
> thing".
>
> He is willing to try freezing (saving) a baseline, which is the timeline
> as
> he wants it, saving a copy of if in another file so he can see it in Gantt
> view if he wants, then let MSP schedule us as it will. He is willing to
> discuss just trusting the software, instead of charging me with trying to
> predict it with 100% accuracy (only truly possible if I had access to the
> algorithms in the code behind the software).
>
> Wish me luck...I'll let you know how it turns out.
>
> "lamby74" wrote:
>
>> My boss has charged me with the task of:
>> being able to:
>>
>> 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when
>> Project
>> "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no
>> matter
>> what resources we throw at it)
>> 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every
>> button
>> click.
>> 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
>> 4) explain HOW does it calculate???
>>
>> I am afraid that in the end I will have to tell him I can't completely do
>> this and my rear will be in a sling (and then my kids won't eat, the
>> mortgage
>> will fall behind, etc, etc).
>>
>> My hypothesis to #1 was that by going to
>> Tool-Options-Calculation-Manual-and Click the Calculate button this would
>> un-do any shifts in our timeline (in Gantt view). however on testing
>> this
>> hypothesis for consistency, I think this is not correct.(???)
>>
>> My answer to #2, #3, and #4, I think, will be this:
>>
>> I can predict in general what it will do, but that's it. I "get it" that
>> it
>> calculates on w = d*u (why beat a dead horse? LOL!). But how can I
>> predict
>> every time what it will do? I mean it all depends on how a task is set
>> up
>> (task type), effot-driven vs. non-effort driven, what are it's
>> pred/successors, what are its resources, are those resources assigned to
>> its
>> pred/successors.
>> I mean mathematically, I can't explain WHY (For Example...)it moved
>> Resource
>> Person #1 from working 8 hours on a task today the 27th all the way over
>> to
>> working on that task for .2 hours on Wednesday Oct 30. and so on....
>>
>> Am I right? Is there a way to predict with mathematical certainty what
>> it
>> will do based not only on inputs of w or d or u, but also of the rest of
>> the
>> schedule that we all KNOW are also a part of this calculation. I mean
>> w=d*u
>> is a completely watered-down explanation of HOW project schedules,
>> correct?
>>
>> Am I correct to when I say that I think my boss may be asking for the
>> impossible?
>> I really need your input, everyone. I am desperate. My boss wants
>> bottom-line answers and I think because of the very nature of MS project,
>> that I can't give him bottom-line answers. Am I right about this?



Re: RESULTS OF ALL YOUR REPLIES by Dale

Dale
Thu Oct 28 09:36:11 CDT 2004

lamby74 --

While you are educating your boss, show him the Tracking Gantt view in your
project. In this view, he can see the baseline schedule for the project
(the gray Gantt bars) compared with the current schedule for the project
(blue/red Gantt bars). This view is incredibly useful to learn whether the
project is on schedule, ahead of schedule, or behind schedule. If it is
behind schedule, you can then make educated decisions about making revisions
to the project to bring it back on track. Hope this helps.

--
Dale A. Howard [MVP]
Enterprise Project Trainer/Consultant
http://www.msprojectexperts.com
"We wrote the book on Project Server"


"lamby74" <lamby74@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:D36B8903-FA51-449F-857C-A0C4A5D0E394@microsoft.com...
>I am very excited, everyone. I go into a meeting with my boss within the
>hour.
>
> I took all of your posts to him between yesterday afternoon and the new
> ones
> I found this morning. He is now onto a new line of thinking. Because of
> all
> of you, my boss is ceasing to try to "fit a square peg in a round hole" as
> Steve House put it, and is willing to discuss just letting MSP "do it's
> thing".
>
> He is willing to try freezing (saving) a baseline, which is the timeline
> as
> he wants it, saving a copy of if in another file so he can see it in Gantt
> view if he wants, then let MSP schedule us as it will. He is willing to
> discuss just trusting the software, instead of charging me with trying to
> predict it with 100% accuracy (only truly possible if I had access to the
> algorithms in the code behind the software).
>
> Wish me luck...I'll let you know how it turns out.
>
> "lamby74" wrote:
>
>> My boss has charged me with the task of:
>> being able to:
>>
>> 1)get back to a reliable schedule if we get off-track (meaning when
>> Project
>> "messes up" our original timeline - which he wants FROZEN in time no
>> matter
>> what resources we throw at it)
>> 2)PREDICT with 100% accuracy what will happen in Project with every
>> button
>> click.
>> 3) EXPLAIN why Project behaves the way it does.
>> 4) explain HOW does it calcula