Brown
Sun Jan 30 15:25:48 CST 2005
Steve,
Thanks for the info. Now to play with it some and see if I can molify my
boss.
Brown
"Steve House [MVP]" <sjhouse.remove.this@to.send.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:O5xbk3vBFHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>I suspect your present strategy is eventually going to paint you into a
>corner. You might be able to get it to work but I'm skeptical. Summary
>tasks and subtasks detail out the physical activities involved in
>completing the project and are not a breakdown of the people doing them. A
>subtask represents one of a set of activities that goes into whatever
>project phase or module is summarized by the summary task. There certainly
>may be a one-to-one correspondence of a task and the resource doing it, in
>fact that is one of the ways you can decide how far to decompose the
>project's work, but the subtask represents the thing they're doing and not
>the resource that is doing it. The position of the taskbar in the Gantt
>chart represents when they're doing that particular thing and shows its
>start and the end, after which the resource goes home never to do that same
>task again. He might repeatedly do other identical tasks with the same
>name but each occurance is a different task. MS Project's primary focus is
>on scheduling when those various tasks will occur within the overall scope
>of the project.
>
> Your multiple rates are easily handled with the rate information in the
> resource definitions without resorting to creating multiple occurances of
> the same resource. After you put in Joe Blow in the resource sheet,
> double click on the ID number to the left of his name. In the Resource
> Information page that opens there's a costs tab. Clicking that will show
> you 5 rate tables designated A through E. When you asssign Joe to a task,
> you can switch to the resource usage view and see the day-by-day workhours
> spread out on the timeline. It will show the resource name and indented
> under it will be the tasks to which he is assigned. Clicking on the ID
> number associated with the specific task assignment gives you a details
> page that includes which rate table for the resource that should be
> applied to that task. In my classes I use an example of filming a movie -
> Betty's basic function on our crew is as an assistant director but she can
> also serve as a camera operator if needed. Her rate table A shows a
> standard rate of $25 per hr while rate table B shows $20 per hour. The
> task is "Shoot scene 3" and Betty is assigned as one of the resources. If
> she's acting as an AD, her assignment details show using rate table A. If
> she's acting as a second camera operator, the assignment details will set
> to show rate table B is to be applied.
>
> A project is defined as a "time limited undertaking producing a unique
> product or result." So far you haven't mentioned having done any analysis
> of what that result is to be or breaking down the work into the specific
> tasks required to achieve it. From what you've said so far, you don't
> really have a project at all. You mentioned, for example, "two people
> that are part time and will only work as required, need to spread their
> hours somehow." But what work exactly will they do, what will trigger
> their being required, how will you know when that requirement has begun or
> ended? You need to explicitly define and quantify those variables before
> you can even begin to schedule and distribute their work.
>
> As I said before, if you're contracted just to supply manpower for 6
> months, without a clearly defined deliverable resulting from their work,
> and you're looking to track their work schedules and report on contract
> hours by activity consumed over time, MS Project or any project management
> application for that matter is a less than optimal choice.
>
> HTH
> --
> Steve House [MVP]
> MS Project Trainer & Consultant
> Visit
http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>
>
> "Brown" <fbrown@knology.net> wrote in message
> news:%23wXU1JuBFHA.3416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Basically, my boss wants the hours in the task laid out in Project with
>> cost associated, in order to have a visual plan to look at. I proposed
>> using an XL spread and Access database, but he insists it will work
>> better in MSP.
>> My approach was to use the task order as a task with a fixed duration,
>> and each staff member as a subtask with a resource that equates to that
>> individual (some folks work at diferent rates on different tasks, so I
>> have to have multiple resources for them). Is ther a better approach?
>>
>> Brown
>>
>> "Steve House [MVP]" <sjhouse.remove.this@to.send.hotmail.com> wrote in
>> message news:uTRk4CtBFHA.608@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>> What exactly are you trying to track by entering this information in
>>> Project and why? Project's primary focus is on planning, scheduling,
>>> and costing the work required to achieve a certain concrete objective
>>> and only coincidently paying attention to the people doing the work in
>>> so far as their availability, etc, impacts the work schedule. It
>>> doesn't track employee hours per se except as they impact the progress
>>> and cost of the tasks those hours are applied against. MSP is really
>>> not very good for staff scheduling, time tracking, staff budgeting, or
>>> time-and-billing applications even though it does incorporate certain
>>> elements of those management activities as part of its project progress
>>> monitoring functions.
>>>
>>> That being said, for the tasks you are having trouble with, my first
>>> thought is to enter them with a duration that takes them to the end of
>>> their contracted period. I'd then split the screen and in the bottom
>>> window I'd make the task fixed duration and non-effort driven. If your
>>> resources work a 40 hour week, an estimated work requirement of a couple
>>> of hours a week translates to 2/40 or about 5% assignment units.
>>> Assigning at that level gives a workload distributed evenly over the
>>> task that averages 2 hours a week - Whether it's 1 hour this week and 3
>>> hours next week or 2 hours all on Tuesday or 30 minutes a day for the
>>> whole week can be taken into account when you put in actuals later on.
>>> The actual distribution of the work doesn't really affect either the
>>> total cost or overall schedule of the task in question and so is of no
>>> consequence. For the last task, you'll just have to make an educated
>>> guess as to what work will be required of those two part-timers and use
>>> that as the basis of your assignment.
>>>
>>> Remember, in any project plan it's only an estimate until you do the
>>> work. If it works out your resources end up doing more or less work than
>>> your Project file calls for, well, that's why it's called "estimating"
>>> rather than "exacting." <grin> Some estimates turn out better than
>>> others but they all are guesses with some degree of uncertainty until
>>> the planned events actually happen.
>>>
>>> What are you referring to with the abbrevs "PoP" and "PoS"?
>>>
>>> HTH
>>> --
>>> Steve House [MVP]
>>> MS Project Trainer & Consultant
>>> Visit
http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>>>
>>>
>>> "Brown" <fbrown@knology.net> wrote in message
>>> news:OD4p6fsBFHA.3376@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>> These are task orders on contracts that call for providing something
>>>> like - two systems analysts, one programmer and admin support with a
>>>> period of performance that runs to a fixed calendar date, no specific
>>>> tangible deliverable. One of the analysts, the programmer and the
>>>> admin support have hours to cover the PoP, the other analyst has small
>>>> ptos of hours that are split into specific task periods. I can get
>>>> these programmed in. There are task leader hours ancontract admin that
>>>> run around 2 hours a week, I have not been able to get these set up.
>>>> Another task has a fixed PoP but two people that are "part time and
>>>> will only work as required, need to spread their hours somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Brown
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Steve House [MVP]" <sjhouse.remove.this@to.send.hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> message news:uNzOjPlBFHA.1004@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Just as an aside, a project consisting of tasks with a fixed length of
>>>>> time seem to be exactly the opposite of a Time and Materials contract
>>>>> to me. When I work time and materials I don't know in advance how long
>>>>> it will take, so the bid is "You agree to pay me $XX per day for
>>>>> however long it takes until it is done. We agree it's done when YY
>>>>> deliverable has been created, tested, and accepted. For planning
>>>>> purposes I estimate that it will take 6 months +/- 15% to produce that
>>>>> deliverable."
>>>>>
>>>>> The schedule and budget that is the standard way of setting up a
>>>>> project in MSP is almost a textbook example of a time and materials
>>>>> contract. Hopefully you create the project plan BEFORE the contract is
>>>>> negotiated since it provides the basis of the negotiation and
>>>>> estimates. In a signifigant project, the planning phase is itself a
>>>>> major phase of the project and if you're doing this on the behalf of a
>>>>> client preparation of the plan may itself be a billable service to the
>>>>> client, perhaps even a separate deliverable from the project per se.
>>>>> After all, how can you possibly bid on a project to produce new line
>>>>> of Wonder Widgets without having a detailed product specification of
>>>>> those widgets and that may involve a lot of research which you
>>>>> certainly wouldn't do for free. Once you have the specifications in
>>>>> hand, you can analyse them as to the specific work activities that
>>>>> will be required and estimate how long each part of it will take,
>>>>> again, in an extensive project something you might not choose to do
>>>>> for free. Even if preparing a preliminary plan is not going to be
>>>>> billable, how can the contract be negotiated from any rational basis
>>>>> if your side doesn't know ahead of time what the project is likely to
>>>>> cost and how long it's likely to take? Coming up with those numbers
>>>>> is part of why we do the plan in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> You say you are having trouble getting the tasks set up. That covers
>>>>> a LOT of territory <grin>. Where specifically are you running into
>>>>> your problems?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Steve House [MVP]
>>>>> MS Project Trainer & Consultant
>>>>> Visit
http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Brown" <fbrown@mta-inc.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:eAecDdVBFHA.3820@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>I have been using Project to manage "tangible" contracts for years. I
>>>>>>have not needed all the features and capabilities available, so I am
>>>>>>not fully knowledgable about all it's capabilities. I am using
>>>>>>Project 2003 Premium, we are soon going to add Project server.
>>>>>> I have been hit with a requirement to track and manage a Time and
>>>>>> Materials contract using Project. Can anyone wind me up and point me
>>>>>> to a reference/course/guru that can enlighten me as to how to do
>>>>>> this. I can't seem to get the tasks set up with multiple people
>>>>>> working multiple tasks, for a fixed length of time. (Some full time,
>>>>>> some not, etc.).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brown
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>