Steve
Thu Sep 09 05:44:22 CDT 2004
Another thing enters the picture and that is the fact that a *duration* day
(or other time interval) and an elapsed *calendar* day are two different
things. Duration time frames - days, weeks, months - only include the days
and hours where work might be scheduled and ignores the times defined in the
calendar as non-working time. Thats why 1 week of duration is 5 days/40
hours, not 7 days/168 hours. The elpased time days recorded on the
calendar posted on your wall, OTOH, are 24-hour intervals and do not pay any
attention to which hours are working and which ones aren't.
In your case you're using a definition of a "day" to be the equivalent of 1
"resource showup" for work, sort of an approximation of elapsed time days.
You're saying, in effect, that if Bill has been on a task Monday, Tuesday,
and Wednesday, he has put in 3 days on the task, regardless of how many
hours per day that represents or the work actually required from start to
finish. Unfortunately that method doesn't allow you to do any real
scheduling or costing on the tasks as you're always comparing apples to
oranges with no consistency through the project. It's pretty much the same
thing as saying an hour for Fred is 60 minutes but an hour for Joe is 30
minutes. If I'm going to estimate that a task is going to require 3-days
to complete, before I know who I'm going to assign to it, I really don't
have a choice but to say that "3-days" should represent the *same* number of
total working *hours* regardless of whether the resource ultimatly assigned
works a 4, 6, 8, or 10 hour workday, if he works an 8 hour day he has to
show up for work three days to finish the task but if he works a 4 hour day
he has to show up on 6 work days before it's done..
Many PMs, BTW, would say that even being able to use the unit "day" at all
when entering durations is only a concession to convenience, maintaining the
best practice is to enter all durations in hours. Some workers prefer not
even to enter durations at all, preferring to work from the resource
assignments screens and defining the man-hours of labour the task will
require, thus letting Project calculate the resulting durations.
Remember durations are ultimately stored and computed using minutes only.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit
http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
"James G" <JamesG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0C8D09B3-DFB5-4DAB-8F90-7E3BE1CC30C1@microsoft.com...
> Steve/Mike,
>
> Thanks indeed for your replies.......they have been most helpful and have
> clarified / confirmed my understanding of how the calendars work.
>
> I appreciate that care needs to be applied when interpreting/applying
> durations and work, owing to the fact that 1 day for one person might be 2
> days for another. My concern arises when someone reads the programme, and
> they are not aware of how the "standard" working day has been defined, and
> that the task durations are relative to that "standard" working day.
>
> To make things work in a more intuitive way, thus potentially easier for
all
> persons involved in producing plans...and interpreting them, my suggestion
to
> Microsoft would be that, when a custom calendar is applied, the software
> reads the start/end times as defined in Change Working Times. I'm pretty
sure
> that the software could make the very basic calculation that, starting at
> 09:00 and finishing at 15:00, equates to 6hrs when applying a default
> duration of 1 day. Ultimately, as the reader, all you need to know is what
> calendar is applied to the task...without having to determine whether the
> programmer has correctly defined the hours in accordance with the custom
> calendar relative to the "standard" calendar...........or something like
that!
>
> I appreciate that there could be number of schools-of-thought on this, and
> each method will have it's advantages. But recent situations have prompted
me
> to clarify my initial experiments with regard to these calendars and how
they
> affect task durations etc. In conclusion, there is no doubt that there
must
> be a far better way. We must all remember that the software is here to
help
> us make our jobs easier; maximising it's sophistication, maximising its
user
> simplicity......yet minimising its potential for mis-interpretation.
>
> Thanks again, guys.....and I look forward to getting onto my soap-box. In
> the meantime, please feel free to initiate some interesting discussions:-)
>
> Regards.
>
> James.G
>
> "Steve House" wrote:
>
> > Remember, all durations are stored in minutes. The "hours per day"
setting
> > on the Calendar Options page is only a conversion factor so you can
enter
> > and display durations in units of a "day" without going to the trouble
of
> > converting it to minutes in your head. But a standard "day" is a
standard
> > "day" - you can not define it as 7 hours of 1 resource and 8 hours for
> > another- 1 "day" of duration will be the same number of hours for all
> > resources and all calendars. (The number of "days" that corresponds to
> > Billy Bob's work schedule this week is another matter entirely - if he
is a
> > part-time worker only scheduled for 4 hours a day, he only works 2.5
> > standard work days for the 5-day week Mon-Fri that he works.) Think
about
> > what it would be like if it were otherwise - I'm estimating how long it
will
> > take to do a task and I decide it will take 3 days FOR A FULL TIME
> > EQUIVALENT, 8 HOUR PER DAY, person. Now I look around to see who I have
to
> > do it and I find that I only have Billy who works 4 hours a day. Should
it
> > stay at 3 days, or should it go to 6 on the calendar on the wall? I
suggest
> > that if Billy is doing the task, 3 standard work days equals 6 of
Billy's
> > working days. If the definition of the amount of work in a "day" of
> > duration grew or shrank depending on the calendar of the resource, we
> > wouldn't be able to make such subsitutions and have the work hours come
out
> > right.
> >
> > If you really do need a greater level of precision, enter your durations
in
> > hours and be done with it.
> >
> > --
> > Steve House [MVP]
> > MS Project Trainer/Consultant
> > Visit
http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs
> >
> >
> > "James G" <JamesG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:1A19C91A-9D98-40D9-A396-6EFEA03D0529@microsoft.com...
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the rapid response. I did set-up all the calendars etc.
prior
> > to
> > > entering any data...and this is why I'm somewhat perplexed. After
having
> > > visited your web-site, it only confirmed that which I was already
doing.
> > >
> > > Of course, once I entered the resource's correct "work" for a
customised 1
> > > day task duration, the duration then reduced accordingly. However, I'd
> > expect
> > > the duration still to read 1 day, but interpreted as 1 "custom day".
> > Although
> > > I'm not too worried about this particular aspect. My main concern
still
> > lies
> > > in the fact that, despite applying the customised task/resource
calendar,
> > it
> > > uses the TOC setting to calculate the hrs-per-day. Can you confirm, to
the
> > > best of your knowledge, that if you apply a custom calendar, the task
> > > duration should start/finish in accordance with those times?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > James.G
> > >
> > > "Mike Glen" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi James,
> > > >
> > > > Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup :-)
> > > >
> > > > Tha answer to your question is Yes. But you must set up all these
> > > > parameters BEFORE entering any data (perhaps use a template for new
> > projects
> > > > see the FAQs). The TOC settings are the defaults that Project uses,
but
> > > > Project will not change what has already been entered. If you
change
> > the
> > > > TOC with already entered data, you will have to go back through the
> > tasks
> > > > and re-enter their Durations - shouldn't take too long as the
Durations
> > are
> > > > already there - re-entering them will force Project to recalculate
as
> > you go
> > > > along..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You might like to see FAQ Item: 5. Default Working Hours
> > > >
> > > > FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be
> > seen at
> > > > this web address:
http://www.mvps.org/project/
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on :-)
> > > >
> > > > Mike Glen
> > > > Project MVP
> > > > James G wrote:
> > > > > Let's see if anyone in the world can help me on this one!
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been using MSP for several years now (currently on MSP
> > > > > 200)...and I hope that I'll explain my predicament succinctly
> > > > >
> > > > > I can set-up the calendars, Change Working Time, and custom
calendars
> > > > > without too much difficulty....and I fully understand (I think!)
the
> > > > > settings via Tools/Options/Calendar (TOC)..which sets the
definition
> > > > > of how many hours equals one working day.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Problem: If I apply a custom task or resource calendar to that
> > > > > task, then the start of the task amends in accordance with the
custom
> > > > > calendar (good!), but the duration (therefore the end-date) alters
in
> > > > > accordance with how many hours-per-day have been defined in the
TOC
> > > > > settings, regardless of the working-times set by the custom
calendar.
> > > > > This results in an incorrect number of hours work for the
resource,
> > > > > unless I go into each task and amend the work in accordance with
the
> > > > > true working times of the resource.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Example: The basic/project calendar has been set for 06:00
start:
> > > > > and 18:00 finish, with 12 Hrs-per-day. The basic resources have
also
> > > > > been set in accordance with those times...thus giving a correct 12
> > > > > hrs work for a 1 day task duration. A custom task and custom
resource
> > > > > calendar has been configured for an 8 hour working day, starting
at
> > > > > 08:00. However, when applying the custom task/resource calendar,
the
> > > > > task finishes at 12:00 on the following day. This indicates that a
1
> > > > > day task duration equates to 12hrs work, even though a custom
> > > > > calendar's working day has been defined at 08:00-17:00. This all
> > > > > seems to come-about because you can define only one set of
> > > > > Hrs-per-day (in TOC).
> > > > >
> > > > > The Question: Is it possible to configure the calendars such that,
> > > > > when you apply a custom resource/task calendar, the default task
> > > > > duration of 1 day is read in accordance with the working-times
> > > > > specified by the custom calendar....thus also applying the correct
> > > > > number of working hours?
> > > > >
> > > > > Have I missed something; is this an "operating characteristic", or
do
> > > > > I have to trick MSP into doing what I would like it to do?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for any tips or guidance.
> > > > >
> > > > > James. G
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >