Hi, all

The V37 has 64MB of RAM, but only 36.45MB is user accessible. Presumably
this is because the O/S and apps are copied from ROM to RAM before being
executed.

Is this because the V37 ROM is not suitable for XIP? Or is it due to
poor/lazy design on the part of Viewsonic? Can we expect that, with the PPC
2003 upgrade, the V37 will be able to execute ROM files in place, thus
leaving much more RAM for the user?

Also, the V37 makes about 36MB of its flash ROM available as file storage
space. Is this unusual among PPCs? Is that likely to change with the PPC
2003 upgrade?

Cheers

- rick

Re: Can the Viewsonic V37 execute ROM files in place? by Ananda

Ananda
Wed Oct 29 01:26:14 CST 2003

Hi Rick,

"rick cameron" <rick.cameron@decisionscrystal.com> wrote in message
news:ecae8PdnDHA.2216@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Hi, all
>
> The V37 has 64MB of RAM, but only 36.45MB is user accessible. Presumably
> this is because the O/S and apps are copied from ROM to RAM before being
> executed.
>
> Is this because the V37 ROM is not suitable for XIP? Or is it due to
> poor/lazy design on the part of Viewsonic? Can we expect that, with the
PPC

Lazy has nothing to do with business decisions in a competitive environment.
There are usually constraints as well as executive decisions which impact on
the final product design.

> 2003 upgrade, the V37 will be able to execute ROM files in place, thus
> leaving much more RAM for the user?

If they could have waved their wand and executed-in-place, they would have
in version one oh. I think this is optimistic.

>
> Also, the V37 makes about 36MB of its flash ROM available as file storage
> space. Is this unusual among PPCs? Is that likely to change with the PPC
> 2003 upgrade?

I gather some of the higher end IPaqs do that.

You might be interested in an IPaq discussion:

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/parseCurl.do?CURL=%2Fcm%2FQuestionAnswer%2F1%2C%2C0xbc91f9211af1b34b926e95a3d8170710%2C00.html&forumId=2&admit=716493758+1067411152954+28353475

or

http://tinyurl.com/stci

and some very detailed tech paper on NAND and NOR ROMs

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cache:XhyGgPIEgZoJ:www.csse.monash.edu.au/~app/CSE3142/Lnts/C08.pdf+NAND+ROM&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

or

http://tinyurl.com/stcr

Hope This Helps
Ananda



Re: Can the Viewsonic V37 execute ROM files in place? by rick

rick
Wed Oct 29 11:37:04 CST 2003

Hi, Ananda

Thanks for the reply, and the pointers.

It appears, then, that the V37 uses NAND ROM, rather than NOR ROM. This
means that the ROM files can't be executed in place.

However, there are a couple of statements in the iPAQ discussion you
referred to that don't seem to line up with the behaviour of the V37:

- Referring to the iPAQ NAND-based PPCs, Russ Smith says, "Somewhere around
8-10MB of RAM is needed to run the operating system." But with the V37,
around 28MB of RAM is taken up in running the O/S. Why the difference?

- Smith also says that the NOR-based iPAQs allow storage of files in part of
the ROM, but NAND-based ones don't. The V37 allows about 36MB of its 64MB
ROM to be used for file storage. Again, why the difference?

Thanks!

- rick



Re: Can the Viewsonic V37 execute ROM files in place? by Alan

Alan
Wed Oct 29 12:18:38 CST 2003

"rick cameron" <rick.cameron@decisionscrystal.com> wrote in message
news:uDPsFNknDHA.1096@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Hi, Ananda
>
> Thanks for the reply, and the pointers.
>
> It appears, then, that the V37 uses NAND ROM, rather than NOR ROM. This
> means that the ROM files can't be executed in place.
>
> However, there are a couple of statements in the iPAQ discussion you
> referred to that don't seem to line up with the behaviour of the V37:
>
> - Referring to the iPAQ NAND-based PPCs, Russ Smith says, "Somewhere
around
> 8-10MB of RAM is needed to run the operating system." But with the V37,
> around 28MB of RAM is taken up in running the O/S. Why the difference?
>
> - Smith also says that the NOR-based iPAQs allow storage of files in part
of
> the ROM, but NAND-based ones don't. The V37 allows about 36MB of its 64MB

the memory you are desribing is the RAM your system has prob 32mb flash nand
rom and 64mb ram but your system uses 28mb of the RAM for running the OS and
allows any left over for storage

the ipaq 3xxx 54xx 55xx all have atleast 32 rom and 64mb of RAM but the OS
is run from ROM, however not all the 32mb of rom is used to store the OS so
some of it is free for something called the "Ipaq Filestore" my 3950 has
6.8mb of rom free for me to use for my own storage and whats more anything
in the filestore should survive a hard reset or total power failure, and all
the ram is available for storage that is why the ipaq 19xx are described as
having 64mb ram but only having 40mb (ish) available to the user, the others
are described as having 64mb ram and all of it is available for use for
storage or programs

so to sumerise the ipaq filstore you are getting confused over is on top of
the system ram so my ipaq 3950 has 64mb ram and! a 6.8mb filestore (actualy
a part of the NOR ROM)

HTH

> ROM to be used for file storage. Again, why the difference?
>
> Thanks!
>
> - rick
>
>



Re: Can the Viewsonic V37 execute ROM files in place? by rick

rick
Wed Oct 29 12:42:22 CST 2003

Hi, Alan

Thanks for the reply.

Did you take a look at the discussion Ananda referred me to?
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/parseCurl.do?CURL=%2Fcm%2FQuestionAnswer%2F1%2C%2C0xbc91f9211af1b34b926e95a3d8170710%2C00.html&forumId=2&admit=716493758+1067411152954+28353475

In that thread, it seems that Russ Smith says that the iPAQ 1900 models,
which have NAND ROM, use only 8-10MB of RAM for the O/S. However, the
Viewsonic V37 (also NAND ROM, it appears) uses ~28MB of RAM for the O/S. Any
idea why the big difference?

Secondly, Smith says that the iPAQs with NOR ROM have a file store in ROM,
implying that the iPAQs with NAND ROM don't. But the V37 _does_ have a file
store in its NAND ROM (36MB out of 64MB of ROM). Any comments on this
apparent discrepancy?

Thanks

- rick

"Alan Hinchcliffe" <alan.hinchcliffe@nospam_btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bnp09u$ngh$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> "rick cameron" <rick.cameron@decisionscrystal.com> wrote in message
> news:uDPsFNknDHA.1096@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Hi, Ananda
> >
> > Thanks for the reply, and the pointers.
> >
> > It appears, then, that the V37 uses NAND ROM, rather than NOR ROM. This
> > means that the ROM files can't be executed in place.
> >
> > However, there are a couple of statements in the iPAQ discussion you
> > referred to that don't seem to line up with the behaviour of the V37:
> >
> > - Referring to the iPAQ NAND-based PPCs, Russ Smith says, "Somewhere
> around
> > 8-10MB of RAM is needed to run the operating system." But with the V37,
> > around 28MB of RAM is taken up in running the O/S. Why the difference?
> >
> > - Smith also says that the NOR-based iPAQs allow storage of files in
part
> of
> > the ROM, but NAND-based ones don't. The V37 allows about 36MB of its
64MB
>
> the memory you are desribing is the RAM your system has prob 32mb flash
nand
> rom and 64mb ram but your system uses 28mb of the RAM for running the OS
and
> allows any left over for storage
>
> the ipaq 3xxx 54xx 55xx all have atleast 32 rom and 64mb of RAM but the OS
> is run from ROM, however not all the 32mb of rom is used to store the OS
so
> some of it is free for something called the "Ipaq Filestore" my 3950 has
> 6.8mb of rom free for me to use for my own storage and whats more anything
> in the filestore should survive a hard reset or total power failure, and
all
> the ram is available for storage that is why the ipaq 19xx are described
as
> having 64mb ram but only having 40mb (ish) available to the user, the
others
> are described as having 64mb ram and all of it is available for use for
> storage or programs
>
> so to sumerise the ipaq filstore you are getting confused over is on top
of
> the system ram so my ipaq 3950 has 64mb ram and! a 6.8mb filestore
(actualy
> a part of the NOR ROM)
>
> HTH
>
> > ROM to be used for file storage. Again, why the difference?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > - rick
> >
> >
>
>



Re: Can the Viewsonic V37 execute ROM files in place? by Alan

Alan
Wed Oct 29 14:12:09 CST 2003

i know the 19xx series dont have media player installed as standard (ie: not
in rom) and that you have to install it as an optional component there may
be other applicaions that arnt installed as standard on the 19xx that your
view sonic has installed in rom already, did you have to install windows
media player for pocket pc or was it already isntalled? also pocket reader
may be an optional component on the 19xx (not in rom again) i also know the
ipaq 19xx series have limited conectivity , ie no serial port so i guess no
need for the drivers and software required for wired serial connections
there maybe other hardware limitiations to the ipaq 19xx that may also
require less drivers, i think its too complicated to try and compare two dif
pocket pcs in the same way that comparing an instalation windows XP would
show a different foot print based on different hardware configutations, but
one thing i am sure of is that not including windows media player for pocket
pc would make a big difference to the space required to run PPC2002

--
--
Bait for spammers:
root@localhost
postmaster@localhost
admin@localhost
abuse@localhost
postmaster@127.0.0.1
"rick cameron" <rick.cameron@decisionscrystal.com> wrote in message
news:%23jA6kxknDHA.2312@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Hi, Alan
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Did you take a look at the discussion Ananda referred me to?
>
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/parseCurl.do?CURL=%2Fcm%2FQuestionAnswer%2F1%2C%2C0xbc91f9211af1b34b926e95a3d8170710%2C00.html&forumId=2&admit=716493758+1067411152954+28353475
>
> In that thread, it seems that Russ Smith says that the iPAQ 1900 models,
> which have NAND ROM, use only 8-10MB of RAM for the O/S. However, the
> Viewsonic V37 (also NAND ROM, it appears) uses ~28MB of RAM for the O/S.
Any
> idea why the big difference?
>
> Secondly, Smith says that the iPAQs with NOR ROM have a file store in ROM,
> implying that the iPAQs with NAND ROM don't. But the V37 _does_ have a
file
> store in its NAND ROM (36MB out of 64MB of ROM). Any comments on this
> apparent discrepancy?
>
> Thanks
>
> - rick
>
> "Alan Hinchcliffe" <alan.hinchcliffe@nospam_btinternet.com> wrote in
message
> news:bnp09u$ngh$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> > "rick cameron" <rick.cameron@decisionscrystal.com> wrote in message
> > news:uDPsFNknDHA.1096@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > Hi, Ananda
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reply, and the pointers.
> > >
> > > It appears, then, that the V37 uses NAND ROM, rather than NOR ROM.
This
> > > means that the ROM files can't be executed in place.
> > >
> > > However, there are a couple of statements in the iPAQ discussion you
> > > referred to that don't seem to line up with the behaviour of the V37:
> > >
> > > - Referring to the iPAQ NAND-based PPCs, Russ Smith says, "Somewhere
> > around
> > > 8-10MB of RAM is needed to run the operating system." But with the
V37,
> > > around 28MB of RAM is taken up in running the O/S. Why the difference?
> > >
> > > - Smith also says that the NOR-based iPAQs allow storage of files in
> part
> > of
> > > the ROM, but NAND-based ones don't. The V37 allows about 36MB of its
> 64MB
> >
> > the memory you are desribing is the RAM your system has prob 32mb flash
> nand
> > rom and 64mb ram but your system uses 28mb of the RAM for running the OS
> and
> > allows any left over for storage
> >
> > the ipaq 3xxx 54xx 55xx all have atleast 32 rom and 64mb of RAM but the
OS
> > is run from ROM, however not all the 32mb of rom is used to store the OS
> so
> > some of it is free for something called the "Ipaq Filestore" my 3950 has
> > 6.8mb of rom free for me to use for my own storage and whats more
anything
> > in the filestore should survive a hard reset or total power failure, and
> all
> > the ram is available for storage that is why the ipaq 19xx are described
> as
> > having 64mb ram but only having 40mb (ish) available to the user, the
> others
> > are described as having 64mb ram and all of it is available for use for
> > storage or programs
> >
> > so to sumerise the ipaq filstore you are getting confused over is on top
> of
> > the system ram so my ipaq 3950 has 64mb ram and! a 6.8mb filestore
> (actualy
> > a part of the NOR ROM)
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > > ROM to be used for file storage. Again, why the difference?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > - rick
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



Re: Can the Viewsonic V37 execute ROM files in place? by rick

rick
Wed Oct 29 15:35:40 CST 2003

Interesting points!

The V37 has a very full-featured version of PPC 2002, including WMP 8.5 and
Reader 2.0. Perhaps that accounts for the difference.

Thanks

- rick

"Alan Hinchcliffe" <alan.hinchcliffe@nospam_btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bnp6up$62u$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> i know the 19xx series dont have media player installed as standard (ie:
not
> in rom) and that you have to install it as an optional component there may
> be other applicaions that arnt installed as standard on the 19xx that your
> view sonic has installed in rom already, did you have to install windows
> media player for pocket pc or was it already isntalled? also pocket reader
> may be an optional component on the 19xx (not in rom again) i also know
the
> ipaq 19xx series have limited conectivity , ie no serial port so i guess
no
> need for the drivers and software required for wired serial connections
> there maybe other hardware limitiations to the ipaq 19xx that may also
> require less drivers, i think its too complicated to try and compare two
dif
> pocket pcs in the same way that comparing an instalation windows XP would
> show a different foot print based on different hardware configutations,
but
> one thing i am sure of is that not including windows media player for
pocket
> pc would make a big difference to the space required to run PPC2002
>
> --
> --
> Bait for spammers:
> root@localhost
> postmaster@localhost
> admin@localhost
> abuse@localhost
> postmaster@127.0.0.1
> "rick cameron" <rick.cameron@decisionscrystal.com> wrote in message
> news:%23jA6kxknDHA.2312@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Hi, Alan
> >
> > Thanks for the reply.
> >
> > Did you take a look at the discussion Ananda referred me to?
> >
>
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/parseCurl.do?CURL=%2Fcm%2FQuestionAnswer%2F1%2C%2C0xbc91f9211af1b34b926e95a3d8170710%2C00.html&forumId=2&admit=716493758+1067411152954+28353475
> >
> > In that thread, it seems that Russ Smith says that the iPAQ 1900 models,
> > which have NAND ROM, use only 8-10MB of RAM for the O/S. However, the
> > Viewsonic V37 (also NAND ROM, it appears) uses ~28MB of RAM for the O/S.
> Any
> > idea why the big difference?
> >
> > Secondly, Smith says that the iPAQs with NOR ROM have a file store in
ROM,
> > implying that the iPAQs with NAND ROM don't. But the V37 _does_ have a
> file
> > store in its NAND ROM (36MB out of 64MB of ROM). Any comments on this
> > apparent discrepancy?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > - rick
> >
> > "Alan Hinchcliffe" <alan.hinchcliffe@nospam_btinternet.com> wrote in
> message
> > news:bnp09u$ngh$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> > > "rick cameron" <rick.cameron@decisionscrystal.com> wrote in message
> > > news:uDPsFNknDHA.1096@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > Hi, Ananda
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the reply, and the pointers.
> > > >
> > > > It appears, then, that the V37 uses NAND ROM, rather than NOR ROM.
> This
> > > > means that the ROM files can't be executed in place.
> > > >
> > > > However, there are a couple of statements in the iPAQ discussion you
> > > > referred to that don't seem to line up with the behaviour of the
V37:
> > > >
> > > > - Referring to the iPAQ NAND-based PPCs, Russ Smith says, "Somewhere
> > > around
> > > > 8-10MB of RAM is needed to run the operating system." But with the
> V37,
> > > > around 28MB of RAM is taken up in running the O/S. Why the
difference?
> > > >
> > > > - Smith also says that the NOR-based iPAQs allow storage of files in
> > part
> > > of
> > > > the ROM, but NAND-based ones don't. The V37 allows about 36MB of its
> > 64MB
> > >
> > > the memory you are desribing is the RAM your system has prob 32mb
flash
> > nand
> > > rom and 64mb ram but your system uses 28mb of the RAM for running the
OS
> > and
> > > allows any left over for storage
> > >
> > > the ipaq 3xxx 54xx 55xx all have atleast 32 rom and 64mb of RAM but
the
> OS
> > > is run from ROM, however not all the 32mb of rom is used to store the
OS
> > so
> > > some of it is free for something called the "Ipaq Filestore" my 3950
has
> > > 6.8mb of rom free for me to use for my own storage and whats more
> anything
> > > in the filestore should survive a hard reset or total power failure,
and
> > all
> > > the ram is available for storage that is why the ipaq 19xx are
described
> > as
> > > having 64mb ram but only having 40mb (ish) available to the user, the
> > others
> > > are described as having 64mb ram and all of it is available for use
for
> > > storage or programs
> > >
> > > so to sumerise the ipaq filstore you are getting confused over is on
top
> > of
> > > the system ram so my ipaq 3950 has 64mb ram and! a 6.8mb filestore
> > (actualy
> > > a part of the NOR ROM)
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > > > ROM to be used for file storage. Again, why the difference?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > - rick
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



Re: Can the Viewsonic V37 execute ROM files in place? by Ananda

Ananda
Fri Oct 31 05:22:10 CST 2003

Hi Alan and Rick,

For what it's worth,

the V37 has a large amount of non volatile "ROM" storage for user files.
Don't know what type it is, but it has a lot. If you hard reset or lose all
battery power, your data in the "ROM" storage persists.

the V37 has very little volatile RAM for use (partitioned into filespace and
execution memory). I think the V37 has .NET CE Framework. That might take a
whack of RAM in addition to what is used for plain OS activities.

Maybe someone from the "horse's mouth" will give us explicit info

Hope This Helps
Ananda


"Alan Hinchcliffe" <alan.hinchcliffe@nospam_btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bnp09u$ngh$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> "rick cameron" <rick.cameron@decisionscrystal.com> wrote in message
> news:uDPsFNknDHA.1096@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Hi, Ananda
> >
> > Thanks for the reply, and the pointers.
> >
> > It appears, then, that the V37 uses NAND ROM, rather than NOR ROM. This
> > means that the ROM files can't be executed in place.
> >
> > However, there are a couple of statements in the iPAQ discussion you
> > referred to that don't seem to line up with the behaviour of the V37:
> >
> > - Referring to the iPAQ NAND-based PPCs, Russ Smith says, "Somewhere
> around
> > 8-10MB of RAM is needed to run the operating system." But with the V37,
> > around 28MB of RAM is taken up in running the O/S. Why the difference?
> >
> > - Smith also says that the NOR-based iPAQs allow storage of files in
part
> of
> > the ROM, but NAND-based ones don't. The V37 allows about 36MB of its
64MB
>
> the memory you are desribing is the RAM your system has prob 32mb flash
nand
> rom and 64mb ram but your system uses 28mb of the RAM for running the OS
and
> allows any left over for storage
>
> the ipaq 3xxx 54xx 55xx all have atleast 32 rom and 64mb of RAM but the OS
> is run from ROM, however not all the 32mb of rom is used to store the OS
so
> some of it is free for something called the "Ipaq Filestore" my 3950 has
> 6.8mb of rom free for me to use for my own storage and whats more anything
> in the filestore should survive a hard reset or total power failure, and
all
> the ram is available for storage that is why the ipaq 19xx are described
as
> having 64mb ram but only having 40mb (ish) available to the user, the
others
> are described as having 64mb ram and all of it is available for use for
> storage or programs
>
> so to sumerise the ipaq filstore you are getting confused over is on top
of
> the system ram so my ipaq 3950 has 64mb ram and! a 6.8mb filestore
(actualy
> a part of the NOR ROM)
>
> HTH
>
> > ROM to be used for file storage. Again, why the difference?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > - rick
> >
> >
>
>