Hi guys,

I use VS.NET2003 to develop my project for PocketPC
now When I debug my project step by step.
it is toooooooooooo slow.
One step 2 min at least. why?

any suggestion will be appreciated

Re: Emulator is slow by Alex

Alex
Thu May 26 14:36:43 CDT 2005

Try closing Memory inspector window if open and watch/Locals

--
Alex Feinman
---
Visit http://www.opennetcf.org
"jeff" <jeff@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0606BCD1-6B49-44C2-A018-AF957B66DAD0@microsoft.com...
> Hi guys,
>
> I use VS.NET2003 to develop my project for PocketPC
> now When I debug my project step by step.
> it is toooooooooooo slow.
> One step 2 min at least. why?
>
> any suggestion will be appreciated
>


Re: Emulator is slow by r_z_aret

r_z_aret
Thu May 26 16:10:10 CDT 2005

On Thu, 26 May 2005 11:15:04 -0700, "jeff"
<jeff@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Hi guys,
>
>I use VS.NET2003 to develop my project for PocketPC
>now When I debug my project step by step.
>it is toooooooooooo slow.
>One step 2 min at least. why?

How are you connected? A serial connection might well be that slow.
Probably an infrared connection also.


>
>any suggestion will be appreciated

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

Re: Emulator is slow by Alex

Alex
Thu May 26 17:02:15 CDT 2005

Um, Emulator?

--
Alex Feinman
---
Visit http://www.opennetcf.org
<r_z_aret@pen_fact.com> wrote in message
news:66dc91tgqsf88r2bgdrsi5hfq4m3aefei0@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 May 2005 11:15:04 -0700, "jeff"
> <jeff@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi guys,
>>
>>I use VS.NET2003 to develop my project for PocketPC
>>now When I debug my project step by step.
>>it is toooooooooooo slow.
>>One step 2 min at least. why?
>
> How are you connected? A serial connection might well be that slow.
> Probably an infrared connection also.
>
>
>>
>>any suggestion will be appreciated
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
> please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>
> Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
> PenFact, Inc.
> 500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
> Boston, MA 02118
> www.penfact.com


Re: Emulator is slow by Dick

Dick
Thu May 26 17:22:26 CDT 2005

Um,

E.m..u...l....a.....t......o.......r?

--
Richard Grier (Microsoft Visual Basic MVP)

See www.hardandsoftware.net for contact information.

Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, 4th
Edition ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages) published July 2004. See
www.mabry.com/vbpgser4 to order.



Re: Emulator is slow by ctacke/>

ctacke/>
Thu May 26 20:10:28 CDT 2005

More like Emmmmmmmmmmmmmmmuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....[much]later

-Chris


"Dick Grier" <dick_grierNOSPAM@msn.com> wrote in message
news:OhMvSFkYFHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Um,
>
> E.m..u...l....a.....t......o.......r?
>
> --
> Richard Grier (Microsoft Visual Basic MVP)
>
> See www.hardandsoftware.net for contact information.
>
> Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, 4th
> Edition ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages) published July 2004. See
> www.mabry.com/vbpgser4 to order.
>
>



Re: Emulator is slow by jeff

jeff
Thu May 26 20:51:02 CDT 2005

Thanks

The reason is written by Alex and r_z_aret.
When I use HttpWebRequest and open watch Dialog
It becomes slooooooooow.

I close the watch Dialog. crying.....because I want to see something




"r_z_aret@pen_fact.com" wrote:

> On Thu, 26 May 2005 11:15:04 -0700, "jeff"
> <jeff@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >Hi guys,
> >
> >I use VS.NET2003 to develop my project for PocketPC
> >now When I debug my project step by step.
> >it is toooooooooooo slow.
> >One step 2 min at least. why?
>
> How are you connected? A serial connection might well be that slow.
> Probably an infrared connection also.
>
>
> >
> >any suggestion will be appreciated
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>
> Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
> PenFact, Inc.
> 500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
> Boston, MA 02118
> www.penfact.com
>

Re: Emulator is slow by Alex

Alex
Fri May 27 11:43:20 CDT 2005

I meant that OP mentioned the emulator both in the subject and the post -
questions about IR or serial debugging are hardly relevant

--
Alex Feinman
---
Visit http://www.opennetcf.org
"Dick Grier" <dick_grierNOSPAM@msn.com> wrote in message
news:OhMvSFkYFHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Um,
>
> E.m..u...l....a.....t......o.......r?
>
> --
> Richard Grier (Microsoft Visual Basic MVP)
>
> See www.hardandsoftware.net for contact information.
>
> Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, 4th
> Edition ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages) published July 2004. See
> www.mabry.com/vbpgser4 to order.
>
>


Re: Emulator is slow by r_z_aret

r_z_aret
Wed Jun 01 23:06:44 CDT 2005

On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:10:28 -0400, "<ctacke/>"
<ctacke_AT_OpenNETCF_com> wrote:

>More like Emmmmmmmmmmmmmmmuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....[much]later

You're pretty clearly referring to the slow speed of the emulator,
rather than my goof. I would like to follow up on emulator speed.

You've mentioned in other threads that you find the emulator slow. I
have not had that experience, so I think we should take a little time
to see why you and I have had different experiences.

I have noticed that the Pocket PC 2003 emulator is slower than any of
its predecessors. But still fast (< 1 sec per line of source code). I
_think_ debugging with the Pocket PC 2003 emulator is slightly faster
than debugging on a Pocket PC 2003 device connected via Ethernet, but
I have not done any systematic timing. For these "tests" the desktop
has a 1.5 GHz CPU and is running Windows 2000, the Pocket PC is an
Axim X50 (400 MHz ARM). The connection is via a Hawking 10/100
Ethernet switch.

I think debugging with earlier emulators is faster than debugging with
real devices connected via Ethernet. Debugging with real devices
connected via serial or IR is way slower (1-2 minutes per line of
source code).

>
>-Chris
>
>
>"Dick Grier" <dick_grierNOSPAM@msn.com> wrote in message
>news:OhMvSFkYFHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> Um,
>>
>> E.m..u...l....a.....t......o.......r?
>>
>> --
>> Richard Grier (Microsoft Visual Basic MVP)
>>
>> See www.hardandsoftware.net for contact information.
>>
>> Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, 4th
>> Edition ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages) published July 2004. See
>> www.mabry.com/vbpgser4 to order.
>>
>>
>

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

Re: Emulator is slow by r_z_aret

r_z_aret
Wed Jun 01 23:06:43 CDT 2005

On Thu, 26 May 2005 15:02:15 -0700, "Alex Feinman [MVP]"
<public_news@alexfeinman.com> wrote:

>Um, Emulator?

Oops. The red glow emanating from the Boston area as I write this is
my face. And my hard drive died as I was about to send this yesterday.

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

Re: Emulator is slow by ctacke/>

ctacke/>
Wed Jun 01 23:26:46 CDT 2005

I've been using the emulators on and off since HPC and PsPC. I aways used
Ethernet, as any other option was unbearable. Debugging is probably about
the same speed roughly, but performing actual operations on the emulator is
just painful. It's responsiveness is bad, it's behavior is unpredictable,
and you often get plain flaky behavior that doesn't happen on a real device.
I think O got spoiled as my first emulators in programming were POSE and the
RIM emulator, both of which were flawlessly like a real device and I could
use them as actual devices and trust testing on them. Not so with the CE
emulators. Maybe with the newest, or the ARM emulators, that will change.
However it's unlikely I'll ever really work with them becasue as long as I
have physical hardware, I see no need to use something that, even with
perfect code execution emulation, can never replace hardware. You can't put
a scope on an emulator.

-Chris



<r_z_aret@pen_fact.com> wrote in message
news:vj3p91hcbbivgl8e4v5raidu32l3r7fe6f@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:10:28 -0400, "<ctacke/>"
> <ctacke_AT_OpenNETCF_com> wrote:
>
>>More like Emmmmmmmmmmmmmmmuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....[much]later
>
> You're pretty clearly referring to the slow speed of the emulator,
> rather than my goof. I would like to follow up on emulator speed.
>
> You've mentioned in other threads that you find the emulator slow. I
> have not had that experience, so I think we should take a little time
> to see why you and I have had different experiences.
>
> I have noticed that the Pocket PC 2003 emulator is slower than any of
> its predecessors. But still fast (< 1 sec per line of source code). I
> _think_ debugging with the Pocket PC 2003 emulator is slightly faster
> than debugging on a Pocket PC 2003 device connected via Ethernet, but
> I have not done any systematic timing. For these "tests" the desktop
> has a 1.5 GHz CPU and is running Windows 2000, the Pocket PC is an
> Axim X50 (400 MHz ARM). The connection is via a Hawking 10/100
> Ethernet switch.
>
> I think debugging with earlier emulators is faster than debugging with
> real devices connected via Ethernet. Debugging with real devices
> connected via serial or IR is way slower (1-2 minutes per line of
> source code).
>
>>
>>-Chris
>>
>>
>>"Dick Grier" <dick_grierNOSPAM@msn.com> wrote in message
>>news:OhMvSFkYFHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> Um,
>>>
>>> E.m..u...l....a.....t......o.......r?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Grier (Microsoft Visual Basic MVP)
>>>
>>> See www.hardandsoftware.net for contact information.
>>>
>>> Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, 4th
>>> Edition ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages) published July 2004. See
>>> www.mabry.com/vbpgser4 to order.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
> please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>
> Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
> PenFact, Inc.
> 500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
> Boston, MA 02118
> www.penfact.com



Re: Emulator is slow by r_z_aret

r_z_aret
Thu Jun 02 15:42:38 CDT 2005

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:26:46 -0400, "<ctacke/>"
<ctacke_AT_OpenNETCF_com> wrote:

>I've been using the emulators on and off since HPC and PsPC. I aways used
>Ethernet, as any other option was unbearable. Debugging is probably about
>the same speed roughly, but performing actual operations on the emulator is
>just painful. It's responsiveness is bad, it's behavior is unpredictable,

Now you've confused me. What's the difference between "debugging" and
"performing actual operations"? And what are you comparing with
"debugging" when you say it is "about the same speed roughly"? I
_think_ you are saying that debugging with the emulator is not slower
than debugging with real devices. Maybe not worth the time (see next
comment), but not slower.


>and you often get plain flaky behavior that doesn't happen on a real device.
>I think O got spoiled as my first emulators in programming were POSE and the
>RIM emulator, both of which were flawlessly like a real device and I could
>use them as actual devices and trust testing on them. Not so with the CE
>emulators. Maybe with the newest, or the ARM emulators, that will change.
>However it's unlikely I'll ever really work with them becasue as long as I
>have physical hardware, I see no need to use something that, even with
>perfect code execution emulation, can never replace hardware. You can't put
>a scope on an emulator.

I agree that the emulators have limited use. But your original comment
was about speed. And _that_ is what I'm trying to nail down.


>
>-Chris
>
>
>
><r_z_aret@pen_fact.com> wrote in message
>news:vj3p91hcbbivgl8e4v5raidu32l3r7fe6f@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:10:28 -0400, "<ctacke/>"
>> <ctacke_AT_OpenNETCF_com> wrote:
>>
>>>More like Emmmmmmmmmmmmmmmuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....[much]later
>>
>> You're pretty clearly referring to the slow speed of the emulator,
>> rather than my goof. I would like to follow up on emulator speed.
>>
>> You've mentioned in other threads that you find the emulator slow. I
>> have not had that experience, so I think we should take a little time
>> to see why you and I have had different experiences.
>>
>> I have noticed that the Pocket PC 2003 emulator is slower than any of
>> its predecessors. But still fast (< 1 sec per line of source code). I
>> _think_ debugging with the Pocket PC 2003 emulator is slightly faster
>> than debugging on a Pocket PC 2003 device connected via Ethernet, but
>> I have not done any systematic timing. For these "tests" the desktop
>> has a 1.5 GHz CPU and is running Windows 2000, the Pocket PC is an
>> Axim X50 (400 MHz ARM). The connection is via a Hawking 10/100
>> Ethernet switch.
>>
>> I think debugging with earlier emulators is faster than debugging with
>> real devices connected via Ethernet. Debugging with real devices
>> connected via serial or IR is way slower (1-2 minutes per line of
>> source code).
>>
>>>
>>>-Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>"Dick Grier" <dick_grierNOSPAM@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:OhMvSFkYFHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>> Um,
>>>>
>>>> E.m..u...l....a.....t......o.......r?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Richard Grier (Microsoft Visual Basic MVP)
>>>>
>>>> See www.hardandsoftware.net for contact information.
>>>>
>>>> Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, 4th
>>>> Edition ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages) published July 2004. See
>>>> www.mabry.com/vbpgser4 to order.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
>> please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>>
>> Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
>> PenFact, Inc.
>> 500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
>> Boston, MA 02118
>> www.penfact.com
>

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com

Re: Emulator is slow by Chris

Chris
Thu Jun 02 16:13:48 CDT 2005

When I say "speed" I don't necessarily mean stepping in the debugger. As
far as I recall they are about the same. Now running code on both platforms
I find the emulator is slower at doing it, even on a good PC. Trying to
just use an app in the emulator is painful as things just aren't "snappy"
like on a device.

Again, if it's the same speed for debugging, and one is unreliable, why
would anyone ever choose that route?

--
Chris Tacke
Co-founder
OpenNETCF.org
Has OpenNETCF helped you? Consider donating to support us!
http://www.opennetcf.org/donate


<r_z_aret@pen_fact.com> wrote in message
news:0lou919gaj5nde1v5ujhrfjioq90uqek0o@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:26:46 -0400, "<ctacke/>"
> <ctacke_AT_OpenNETCF_com> wrote:
>
>>I've been using the emulators on and off since HPC and PsPC. I aways used
>>Ethernet, as any other option was unbearable. Debugging is probably about
>>the same speed roughly, but performing actual operations on the emulator
>>is
>>just painful. It's responsiveness is bad, it's behavior is unpredictable,
>
> Now you've confused me. What's the difference between "debugging" and
> "performing actual operations"? And what are you comparing with
> "debugging" when you say it is "about the same speed roughly"? I
> _think_ you are saying that debugging with the emulator is not slower
> than debugging with real devices. Maybe not worth the time (see next
> comment), but not slower.
>
>
>>and you often get plain flaky behavior that doesn't happen on a real
>>device.
>>I think O got spoiled as my first emulators in programming were POSE and
>>the
>>RIM emulator, both of which were flawlessly like a real device and I could
>>use them as actual devices and trust testing on them. Not so with the CE
>>emulators. Maybe with the newest, or the ARM emulators, that will change.
>>However it's unlikely I'll ever really work with them becasue as long as I
>>have physical hardware, I see no need to use something that, even with
>>perfect code execution emulation, can never replace hardware. You can't
>>put
>>a scope on an emulator.
>
> I agree that the emulators have limited use. But your original comment
> was about speed. And _that_ is what I'm trying to nail down.
>
>
>>
>>-Chris
>>
>>
>>
>><r_z_aret@pen_fact.com> wrote in message
>>news:vj3p91hcbbivgl8e4v5raidu32l3r7fe6f@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 26 May 2005 21:10:28 -0400, "<ctacke/>"
>>> <ctacke_AT_OpenNETCF_com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>More like Emmmmmmmmmmmmmmmuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....[much]later
>>>
>>> You're pretty clearly referring to the slow speed of the emulator,
>>> rather than my goof. I would like to follow up on emulator speed.
>>>
>>> You've mentioned in other threads that you find the emulator slow. I
>>> have not had that experience, so I think we should take a little time
>>> to see why you and I have had different experiences.
>>>
>>> I have noticed that the Pocket PC 2003 emulator is slower than any of
>>> its predecessors. But still fast (< 1 sec per line of source code). I
>>> _think_ debugging with the Pocket PC 2003 emulator is slightly faster
>>> than debugging on a Pocket PC 2003 device connected via Ethernet, but
>>> I have not done any systematic timing. For these "tests" the desktop
>>> has a 1.5 GHz CPU and is running Windows 2000, the Pocket PC is an
>>> Axim X50 (400 MHz ARM). The connection is via a Hawking 10/100
>>> Ethernet switch.
>>>
>>> I think debugging with earlier emulators is faster than debugging with
>>> real devices connected via Ethernet. Debugging with real devices
>>> connected via serial or IR is way slower (1-2 minutes per line of
>>> source code).
>>>
>>>>
>>>>-Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Dick Grier" <dick_grierNOSPAM@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:OhMvSFkYFHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Um,
>>>>>
>>>>> E.m..u...l....a.....t......o.......r?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Richard Grier (Microsoft Visual Basic MVP)
>>>>>
>>>>> See www.hardandsoftware.net for contact information.
>>>>>
>>>>> Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications,
>>>>> 4th
>>>>> Edition ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages) published July 2004. See
>>>>> www.mabry.com/vbpgser4 to order.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
>>> please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>>>
>>> Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
>>> PenFact, Inc.
>>> 500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
>>> Boston, MA 02118
>>> www.penfact.com
>>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
> please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>
> Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
> PenFact, Inc.
> 500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
> Boston, MA 02118
> www.penfact.com



Re: Emulator is slow by r_z_aret

r_z_aret
Fri Jun 03 14:40:53 CDT 2005

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:13:48 -0400, "Chris Tacke, eMVP"
<ctacke@spamfree-opennetcf.org> wrote:

>When I say "speed" I don't necessarily mean stepping in the debugger. As
>far as I recall they are about the same. Now running code on both platforms
>I find the emulator is slower at doing it, even on a good PC. Trying to
>just use an app in the emulator is painful as things just aren't "snappy"
>like on a device.
>
>Again, if it's the same speed for debugging, and one is unreliable, why
>would anyone ever choose that route?

For some functions/features, I find the emulator good enough. And the
whole build->run cycle is significantly faster and more convenient on
an emulator than on a real device. Even when my real device is
connected via Ethernet.

Bear in mind that I use the same source code for CE and "big" Windows,
so I do most debugging on my desktop. So I don't debug on CE emulators
_or_ real devices much. And I code mostly for greatest common
denominator, so much of my code does work well on an emulator.

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
500 Harrison Ave., Suite 3R
Boston, MA 02118
www.penfact.com