Money 2k4 Deluxe and 401K contrib with Employer Match

I am trying to set up my paychecks in Money 2004 Deluxe and a 401K account
with my contributions and a a 3% empoloyer matching program.

I have the following generic sample"

Gross Check $2,000
401K contrib pre-tax (%) 15%
------------------------
so, $300.00 per check (every 2 weeks) will go towards the following mutual
funds in the 401K:

Fund A 10% $30.00
Fund B 15% $45.00
Fund C 30% $90.00
Fund D 25% $75.00
Fund E 20% $60.00
= 100% or $300.00 total pre-tax contributions
How can I set-up Money to enter my paycheck and at least tie the 401K amount
of either 15% of the gross amount or the percentages of each fund? I can
enter the dollar amounts of the funds if necessary. I am trying to associate
my checking account, payroll check and the 401K account without too manual
entries.
I do want to be able to see the 401k fund in my porfolio and be able to
update the NAV's.



Thank you for any assistance or direction you may provide.

Art
Sun May 02 17:14:56 CDT 2004

Money does not give a percentage capability in a split. What I have done is:
1) tie the paycheck to the 401K cash account. I also have set up a
separate deposit into this cash account of the employers match. Then I
set up purchases using funds from the cash accounts of each of the
mutual funds that I hold.

Art

HlpDsk wrote:
> I am trying to set up my paychecks in Money 2004 Deluxe and a 401K account
> with my contributions and a a 3% empoloyer matching program.
>
> I have the following generic sample"
>
> Gross Check $2,000
> 401K contrib pre-tax (%) 15%
> ------------------------
> so, $300.00 per check (every 2 weeks) will go towards the following mutual
> funds in the 401K:
>
> Fund A 10% $30.00
> Fund B 15% $45.00
> Fund C 30% $90.00
> Fund D 25% $75.00
> Fund E 20% $60.00
> = 100% or $300.00 total pre-tax contributions
> How can I set-up Money to enter my paycheck and at least tie the 401K amount
> of either 15% of the gross amount or the percentages of each fund? I can
> enter the dollar amounts of the funds if necessary. I am trying to associate
> my checking account, payroll check and the 401K account without too manual
> entries.
> I do want to be able to see the 401k fund in my porfolio and be able to
> update the NAV's.
>
>
>
> Thank you for any assistance or direction you may provide.
>
>

Dick
Sun May 02 19:02:37 CDT 2004

I keep thinking that one of these days, Real Soon Now, I'll write a
dedicated tutorial for the FAQ on 401ks. They can be very complicated.

I'm not sure you can achieve what you want in less than two transactions
(one of which is your existing paycheck) with lots of splits.

There are only two cases in all of Money where it will compute the values in
a transaction: loan payments and DRP planned payments. So, there is no way
to teach money about 15% and 3% and all of the investment splits as
percentages. Excel is very handy for lots of this. I've long wished that
Money could be taught expressions (e.g, the ability to set a split amount to
something like =15%*ThisTransaction.Category("Wages and Salary:Gross
Wages")), but it hasn't ever happened.

Your paycheck should end up with a Transfer:[410k cash acct] on the before
taxes tab for the 15% and an income entry (as a negative number--the 3%
match) like Wages & Salary:Deferred Income and then another Transfer:[401k
cash acct] (as the same 3% positive number) both on the after taxes tab.
This puts all of your contributions and your match money in the cash
account. Then you'll add a Bill to go to the 401k cash account that is split
into five (where's the match money get invested) Buy Investment/CD:[name of
investment] transactions matching your list. This invests the money.

Be careful about the NAVs and updating them. Depending on your plan, the
funds may not be the same as similar public funds. My employer's plan, for
instance, offers something almost exactly like VWNDX, but they scrape some
extra plan fees off the top. In these cases, and since the plan does not
uniformly report transactions in units, I don't assign a symbol and just use
$1 shares with quantity equal to amount for every transaction.

This was from a post earlier this week:
=========
The basic steps, assuming you already have 1) a 401k Investment Account and
an associated Cash Account setup in Money, 2) have already worked out
Investments for the 401k and how to value them, and 3) have a scheduled
paycheck transaction setup in Money:

1) Add a Transfer:[name of 401k Cash Account] split to the before and/or
after tax tabs of the scheduled paycheck in the amount of your contribution.

2) Depending on the plan, you should also recognize the employer deferred
income for their contribution and transfer it to the 401k cash account as
well. See http://umpmfaq.info/faqdb.php?q=14 for more on this step. You can
do this in the Paycheck (see the FAQ for caveats) or in separate
transactions.

3) Now that all of the contribution money has made it to the cash account,
you need to buy investments. This can also be a scheduled transaction, but
there are some caveats: a) if you are buying more that one investment with
each set of contributions, do not use a Scheduled Investment Purchase. Use a
Scheduled Bill. For each investment, in the splits of the Scheduled Bill,
enter "buy investment/cd" as the category. Money will not offer this in the
pull down, but will be glad to take it. Then Money will let you pick the
investment. Set the value equal to the fraction of your total investment in
this investment for this cycle. You create as many "buy investment/cd"
splits as there are ways you are investing the contributions. The final rub
is what share price to use--this depends on the plan and the investment and
how you are having Money do all this.

Whatever you do should be dictated by the way the plan works and when your
employer makes contributions and when the contributions all actually get
invested.

I know this is a lot to swallow. Handling 401ks and mortgage refis are two
of the most complicated things in Money. Both are complicated, in part, by
the huge range of different circumstances for individual users--in the case
of 401ks, the plans and investments and so forth vary for everybody--making
it hard to write one-size-fits-all answers.

Mess with it and come back with more specific questions and we'll take a
swing at those as well.

"HlpDsk" <computooXX@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u3wGszIMEHA.2456@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I am trying to set up my paychecks in Money 2004 Deluxe and a 401K account
> with my contributions and a a 3% empoloyer matching program.
>
> I have the following generic sample"
>
> Gross Check $2,000
> 401K contrib pre-tax (%) 15%
> ------------------------
> so, $300.00 per check (every 2 weeks) will go towards the following mutual
> funds in the 401K:
>
> Fund A 10% $30.00
> Fund B 15% $45.00
> Fund C 30% $90.00
> Fund D 25% $75.00
> Fund E 20% $60.00
> = 100% or $300.00 total pre-tax contributions
> How can I set-up Money to enter my paycheck and at least tie the 401K
amount
> of either 15% of the gross amount or the percentages of each fund? I can
> enter the dollar amounts of the funds if necessary. I am trying to
associate
> my checking account, payroll check and the 401K account without too manual
> entries.
> I do want to be able to see the 401k fund in my porfolio and be able to
> update the NAV's.

HlpDsk
Fri May 07 19:21:03 CDT 2004

I am currently working on your method to get my 401K up to date. I will have
a couple of additional questions in a couple of days if you are available to
comment. This is a long process to get the correct percentages to each
investment.

Thank You


"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:O0aBiHKMEHA.2976@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I keep thinking that one of these days, Real Soon Now, I'll write a
> dedicated tutorial for the FAQ on 401ks. They can be very complicated.
>
> I'm not sure you can achieve what you want in less than two transactions
> (one of which is your existing paycheck) with lots of splits.
>
> There are only two cases in all of Money where it will compute the values
in
> a transaction: loan payments and DRP planned payments. So, there is no way
> to teach money about 15% and 3% and all of the investment splits as
> percentages. Excel is very handy for lots of this. I've long wished that
> Money could be taught expressions (e.g, the ability to set a split amount
to
> something like =15%*ThisTransaction.Category("Wages and Salary:Gross
> Wages")), but it hasn't ever happened.
>
> Your paycheck should end up with a Transfer:[410k cash acct] on the before
> taxes tab for the 15% and an income entry (as a negative number--the 3%
> match) like Wages & Salary:Deferred Income and then another Transfer:[401k
> cash acct] (as the same 3% positive number) both on the after taxes tab.
> This puts all of your contributions and your match money in the cash
> account. Then you'll add a Bill to go to the 401k cash account that is
split
> into five (where's the match money get invested) Buy Investment/CD:[name
of
> investment] transactions matching your list. This invests the money.
>
> Be careful about the NAVs and updating them. Depending on your plan, the
> funds may not be the same as similar public funds. My employer's plan, for
> instance, offers something almost exactly like VWNDX, but they scrape
some
> extra plan fees off the top. In these cases, and since the plan does not
> uniformly report transactions in units, I don't assign a symbol and just
use
> $1 shares with quantity equal to amount for every transaction.
>
> This was from a post earlier this week:
> =========
> The basic steps, assuming you already have 1) a 401k Investment Account
and
> an associated Cash Account setup in Money, 2) have already worked out
> Investments for the 401k and how to value them, and 3) have a scheduled
> paycheck transaction setup in Money:
>
> 1) Add a Transfer:[name of 401k Cash Account] split to the before and/or
> after tax tabs of the scheduled paycheck in the amount of your
contribution.
>
> 2) Depending on the plan, you should also recognize the employer deferred
> income for their contribution and transfer it to the 401k cash account as
> well. See http://umpmfaq.info/faqdb.php?q=14 for more on this step. You
can
> do this in the Paycheck (see the FAQ for caveats) or in separate
> transactions.
>
> 3) Now that all of the contribution money has made it to the cash account,
> you need to buy investments. This can also be a scheduled transaction, but
> there are some caveats: a) if you are buying more that one investment with
> each set of contributions, do not use a Scheduled Investment Purchase. Use
a
> Scheduled Bill. For each investment, in the splits of the Scheduled Bill,
> enter "buy investment/cd" as the category. Money will not offer this in
the
> pull down, but will be glad to take it. Then Money will let you pick the
> investment. Set the value equal to the fraction of your total investment
in
> this investment for this cycle. You create as many "buy investment/cd"
> splits as there are ways you are investing the contributions. The final
rub
> is what share price to use--this depends on the plan and the investment
and
> how you are having Money do all this.
>
> Whatever you do should be dictated by the way the plan works and when your
> employer makes contributions and when the contributions all actually get
> invested.
>
> I know this is a lot to swallow. Handling 401ks and mortgage refis are two
> of the most complicated things in Money. Both are complicated, in part, by
> the huge range of different circumstances for individual users--in the
case
> of 401ks, the plans and investments and so forth vary for
everybody--making
> it hard to write one-size-fits-all answers.
>
> Mess with it and come back with more specific questions and we'll take a
> swing at those as well.
>
> "HlpDsk" <computooXX@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:u3wGszIMEHA.2456@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > I am trying to set up my paychecks in Money 2004 Deluxe and a 401K
account
> > with my contributions and a a 3% empoloyer matching program.
> >
> > I have the following generic sample"
> >
> > Gross Check $2,000
> > 401K contrib pre-tax (%) 15%
> > ------------------------
> > so, $300.00 per check (every 2 weeks) will go towards the following
mutual
> > funds in the 401K:
> >
> > Fund A 10% $30.00
> > Fund B 15% $45.00
> > Fund C 30% $90.00
> > Fund D 25% $75.00
> > Fund E 20% $60.00
> > = 100% or $300.00 total pre-tax contributions
> > How can I set-up Money to enter my paycheck and at least tie the 401K
> amount
> > of either 15% of the gross amount or the percentages of each fund? I can
> > enter the dollar amounts of the funds if necessary. I am trying to
> associate
> > my checking account, payroll check and the 401K account without too
manual
> > entries.
> > I do want to be able to see the 401k fund in my porfolio and be able to
> > update the NAV's.
>
>

Dick
Fri May 07 23:01:30 CDT 2004

Be sure and post back. I'll probably be reading--as will others who can also
contribute. What I gave was the "most complete" way to do this. There are
lighter-weight ways that just put the shares in based on statements. But
those approaches don't "follow the money."

"HlpDsk" <computooXX@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%23zoq7HJNEHA.628@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> I am currently working on your method to get my 401K up to date. I will
have
> a couple of additional questions in a couple of days if you are available
to
> comment. This is a long process to get the correct percentages to each
> investment.

HlpDsk
Sun May 09 14:39:50 CDT 2004

Dick Watson wrote:
> Be sure and post back. I'll probably be reading--as will others who can also
> contribute. What I gave was the "most complete" way to do this. There are
> lighter-weight ways that just put the shares in based on statements. But
> those approaches don't "follow the money."
>
> "HlpDsk" <computooXX@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:%23zoq7HJNEHA.628@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
>>I am currently working on your method to get my 401K up to date. I will
>
> have
>
>>a couple of additional questions in a couple of days if you are available
>
> to
>
>>comment. This is a long process to get the correct percentages to each
>>investment.
>
>
>
I have *completed* the 401K as described by your steps. I had originally
placed (misread your step) the "employer match" in the "after tax
deduction" tab of my Paycheck. I then noticed that when in the "bills
and Deposits" I had a "current'negative dollar amount. I re-read you
instructions and discovered that I needed the negative employer match
MUST be in the Deductions BEFORE taxes tab. The "current" dollar amount
should be close to zero (mine is .01, 1 penny) in the Bills and Deposits.

I had to remove all ticker symbols associated with the 401K mutual
funds. I eventually used the actual NAV's that my 401K retirement site
uses. (downloaded the entire history of my 401k, thankfully it was only
since feb 2004).

Using your method(steps) and the 401K NAV's (not the ticker) make each
of my 7 funds within .05-.10 of Money 2004 and my 401k website.

The Question I had was going to be about Profit Sharing. How do you deal
with it, if applicable? I had used the "add shares" for the entry into
each appropriate investment from the March 2004 Quarterly statement. I
am not concerned about the Vesting percentage, currently 40%. I will
have to dig up all of my statements from 2001-2003 to get a more
detailed trace of the Profit Sharing. Some of the funds are not
available anymore towards the 401k and Profit Sharing.

Currently I am off a total of .64 cents on my total portfolio in Money
vs the 401k web site. (I would guess that is because of the amount of
decimals the 2 sources use)??

This took some time and patience to accomplish, but many, many Thanks
to Mr. D. Watson, Excel and MS Money 2004, I am making more use of MS
money that just a checking account holder.




PS. On Item 3, of your steps it says:

Use a Scheduled Bill. For each investment, in the splits of the
Scheduled Bill,
enter "buy investment/cd" as the category. Money will not offer this in
the pull down, but will be glad to take it. Then Money will let you pick
the investment

End Quote.

In my Money 2004 Deluxe, at the bottom, click on "new">"Investment
Purchase" and then enter the necessay information. I did not have the
"buy investment/cd" option.




Thanks Again

Dick
Sun May 09 16:49:55 CDT 2004

Glad I could help and thanks for the feedback. Some
comments/feedback/clarifications in-line.

"HlpDsk" <none@here.com> wrote in message news:409E8906.5080007@here.com...
> I have *completed* the 401K as described by your steps. I had originally
> placed (misread your step) the "employer match" in the "after tax
> deduction" tab of my Paycheck. I then noticed that when in the "bills
> and Deposits" I had a "current'negative dollar amount. I re-read you
> instructions and discovered that I needed the negative employer match
> MUST be in the Deductions BEFORE taxes tab. The "current" dollar amount
> should be close to zero (mine is .01, 1 penny) in the Bills and Deposits.

I do this on the After Tax tab--I'm not sure I said Before Tax tab anywhere,
but if I did, here's what I should have said and why.

For employer match money, I put two entries, both identical in amount but
reversed in sign, thus netting to $0, in the After Tax tab. (E.g., Wages and
Salary:Deferred Income: ($75.43), Transfer:401k Cash $75.43 on two lines in
After Tax tab.) My plan funds at the same time I get paid, so I just add
these to my regular paycheck entries. Since they net to $0, they don't
effect the amount that gets deposited in my checking account by the
paycheck. My paychecks include transfers to the 401k cash account as
follows: one on the Before Tax tab for my before tax contributions, a second
on the After Tax tab for my after tax contributions, a third on the After
Tax tab for the employer match and a fourth on After Tax tab for the 401k
loan payment. (I "pay" the Loan Payment form the 401k cash account since you
can't make a Loan Payment directly from a Paycheck.) I could combine these
last three and save some entries in the cash account, but that would make
all that's going on less easily traceable.

The reason for doing this on the After Taxes tab has to do with how the Tax
Estimator calculates the "taxable" portion of your paychecks. Money Tax
Estimator figure the tax on the amounts on your Wages tab with the amount in
the first category on the Wages tab reduced by the total of the amount on
the Before Tax tab. So, if you put the income from the match as a line on
the wages tab and then transfer that match money to the 401k on the before
taxes tab, Tax Estimator actually considers the match money as taxable
income.

> I had to remove all ticker symbols associated with the 401K mutual
> funds. I eventually used the actual NAV's that my 401K retirement site
> uses. (downloaded the entire history of my 401k, thankfully it was only
> since feb 2004).

For plans where the funds are not real market funds but are derivatives,
this is necessary.

> Using your method(steps) and the 401K NAV's (not the ticker) make each
> of my 7 funds within .05-.10 of Money 2004 and my 401k website.
>
> The Question I had was going to be about Profit Sharing. How do you deal
> with it, if applicable? I had used the "add shares" for the entry into
> each appropriate investment from the March 2004 Quarterly statement. I
> am not concerned about the Vesting percentage, currently 40%. I will
> have to dig up all of my statements from 2001-2003 to get a more
> detailed trace of the Profit Sharing. Some of the funds are not
> available anymore towards the 401k and Profit Sharing.

There is just no good way to deal with vesting in Money. I'd deal with
Profit Sharing just like other employer match money. Recognize the Wages and
Salary:Deferred Income, Transfer the income to the 401k Cash Account. Invest
it in Investments as appropriate. You needn't go back and get the legacy
data to show how all this got there unless you really want to be precise
analyzing performance. You can just go create, at some convenient starting
date like date of the 2003 ending statemnt, if that's as far back as you
want to capture detailed history, Buy Shares transactions in the appropriate
Investments for the then current units/NAVs/total amount and specify no
transfer account. The money "just got there." So what? The only real
question, at some point in years to come when you realize any of this
income, is how much, if any, has the tax man got a cut of before. Beyond
that, it doesn't really make much difference.

One more detail: if you do want to recognize these income/transfer pairs and
they don't line up with existing paychecks, you can always enter a $0
paycheck with offsetting amounts that add up to a net paycheck of $0. My
wife's employer funds their 401k match whenever they get around to it. This
is what I do with theirs.

> Currently I am off a total of .64 cents on my total portfolio in Money
> vs the 401k web site. (I would guess that is because of the amount of
> decimals the 2 sources use)??

This is likely. Every quarter or so I just use the Account Summary|Quick
Update (it's called something similar to that) to get the actual value
matched. It adds Add/Remove Shares transactions as required.

> This took some time and patience to accomplish, but many, many Thanks
> to Mr. D. Watson, Excel and MS Money 2004, I am making more use of MS
> money that just a checking account holder.
>
> PS. On Item 3, of your steps it says:
>
> Use a Scheduled Bill. For each investment, in the splits of the
> Scheduled Bill,
> enter "buy investment/cd" as the category. Money will not offer this in
> the pull down, but will be glad to take it. Then Money will let you pick
> the investment
>
> End Quote.
>
> In my Money 2004 Deluxe, at the bottom, click on "new">"Investment
> Purchase" and then enter the necessay information. I did not have the
> "buy investment/cd" option.

The reason I recommend otherwise is so that you can enter more than one
"investment purchase" (the actual special category this maps to in the
transactions) in the same transaction as splits. Money will not let you
schedule multiple "Buy Investment/CD" transactions as splits in one
scheduled "Investment Purchases" transaction. But if you call it a Bill and
then go into the splits and hand enter the "Buy Investment/CD" for each of
your fund allocations, you can have one transaction buy positions in all of
the funds you are allocated to. This is not necessary if you are only
allocating to one fund. If you are allocating to multiple, this will keep
the entries a little simpler.

Example:

Allocation of $500 each contribution period to two funds, 50%/50%.

Scheduled as "Investment Purchase," this takes two separate $250.00
scheduled items.

As a Bill, this can be one $500 scheduled item, split into two $250 Buy
Investment/CD:fund_1 and $250 Buy Investment/CD:fund_2 splits.

In my case, I split into five funds once a week and my wife splits into
three funds twice a month. My way I enter 7 scheduled items a month. As
separate Investment Purchases, I'd be entering 31.