Investment Summary - Uncorrectable Error?

I have run into this before but I was usually able to resolve it. I cannot
seem to do it this time in Money Plus Deluxe. I welcome any assistance.

Here is the situationn:
1. I owned two mutual funds that trade in up to four decimals, e.g. 12.3456.
These were in two accounts.

2. I decided I wanted to sell out of these in both accounts and did so.

3. Before I entered the sales, I balanced both accounts down to the four
digit decimal.

4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced to
earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.

5. I expected to see both securities removed from the Inverstment Summary on
the main page. They were still there.

6. I figured that there might be some rounding issue despite what I had done
above. I went into each account for each security and attempted to do a
"Remove shares" for .00001. I recieved a message that I did not have enough
shares to do so.

OK - I'm stumped. Do I need to keep these two securities that I no longer
care about in my Investment Summary forever? Or is there a way to remove
them? Please don't tell me to do a "Delete security from all accounts". I
tried this and, although it did remove them from the Investment Summary, it
also removed them from valuations for the current year as they were no
longer shown in my Year-end for 2006. Luckily I was able to go to a backup
as there is no recovery from this that I know of.

Does anyone have a solution?

JohnG

Cal
Wed Dec 19 11:33:16 CST 2007

In microsoft.public.money, John Gallagher wrote:

>I have run into this before but I was usually able to resolve it. I cannot
>seem to do it this time in Money Plus Deluxe. I welcome any assistance.
>
>Here is the situationn:
>1. I owned two mutual funds that trade in up to four decimals, e.g. 12.3456.
>These were in two accounts.
>
>2. I decided I wanted to sell out of these in both accounts and did so.
>
>3. Before I entered the sales, I balanced both accounts down to the four
>digit decimal.
>
>4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced to
>earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.
>
>5. I expected to see both securities removed from the Inverstment Summary on
>the main page. They were still there.
>
>6. I figured that there might be some rounding issue despite what I had done
>above. I went into each account for each security and attempted to do a
>"Remove shares" for .00001. I recieved a message that I did not have enough
>shares to do so.
>
>OK - I'm stumped. Do I need to keep these two securities that I no longer
>care about in my Investment Summary forever? Or is there a way to remove
>them? Please don't tell me to do a "Delete security from all accounts". I
>tried this and, although it did remove them from the Investment Summary, it
>also removed them from valuations for the current year as they were no
>longer shown in my Year-end for 2006. Luckily I was able to go to a backup
>as there is no recovery from this that I know of.
>
>Does anyone have a solution?

The best would be to re-enter the transactions by not entering the
price; let Money calculate it. Instead enter the number of shares
and the Total.

John
Wed Dec 19 13:09:10 CST 2007

Cal,

You lost me.

What does the price have to do with the fact that Money still thinks I own
some shares (but only in Investment Summary)?

I will try what you said and get back tho.

JohnG

"Cal Learner-- MVP" <via_newsgroup@please.tnx> wrote in message
news:fblim35k8h0lgl6tblbc0uoltvb81i3fb1@4ax.com...
> In microsoft.public.money, John Gallagher wrote:
>
>>I have run into this before but I was usually able to resolve it. I cannot
>>seem to do it this time in Money Plus Deluxe. I welcome any assistance.
>>
>>Here is the situationn:
>>1. I owned two mutual funds that trade in up to four decimals, e.g.
>>12.3456.
>>These were in two accounts.
>>
>>2. I decided I wanted to sell out of these in both accounts and did so.
>>
>>3. Before I entered the sales, I balanced both accounts down to the four
>>digit decimal.
>>
>>4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced to
>>earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.
>>
>>5. I expected to see both securities removed from the Inverstment Summary
>>on
>>the main page. They were still there.
>>
>>6. I figured that there might be some rounding issue despite what I had
>>done
>>above. I went into each account for each security and attempted to do a
>>"Remove shares" for .00001. I recieved a message that I did not have
>>enough
>>shares to do so.
>>
>>OK - I'm stumped. Do I need to keep these two securities that I no longer
>>care about in my Investment Summary forever? Or is there a way to remove
>>them? Please don't tell me to do a "Delete security from all accounts". I
>>tried this and, although it did remove them from the Investment Summary,
>>it
>>also removed them from valuations for the current year as they were no
>>longer shown in my Year-end for 2006. Luckily I was able to go to a backup
>>as there is no recovery from this that I know of.
>>
>>Does anyone have a solution?
>
> The best would be to re-enter the transactions by not entering the
> price; let Money calculate it. Instead enter the number of shares
> and the Total.

Cal
Wed Dec 19 13:21:38 CST 2007

In microsoft.public.money, John Gallagher wrote:

>Cal,
>
>You lost me.
>
>What does the price have to do with the fact that Money still thinks I own
>some shares (but only in Investment Summary)?
>
>I will try what you said and get back tho.

Here is where somebody could go wrong: you enter a transaction with
the total and price. Money computes the Quantity. Money displays the
Quantity to three decimals, but internally it maintains more places.
You later sell using a quantity. That tiny fraction hangs on.

There is another way to address the problem, but I would try this
one first.

>
>JohnG
>
>"Cal Learner-- MVP" <via_newsgroup@please.tnx> wrote in message
>news:fblim35k8h0lgl6tblbc0uoltvb81i3fb1@4ax.com...
>> In microsoft.public.money, John Gallagher wrote:
>>
>>>I have run into this before but I was usually able to resolve it. I cannot
>>>seem to do it this time in Money Plus Deluxe. I welcome any assistance.
>>>
>>>Here is the situationn:
>>>1. I owned two mutual funds that trade in up to four decimals, e.g.
>>>12.3456.
>>>These were in two accounts.
>>>
>>>2. I decided I wanted to sell out of these in both accounts and did so.
>>>
>>>3. Before I entered the sales, I balanced both accounts down to the four
>>>digit decimal.
>>>
>>>4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced to
>>>earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.
>>>
>>>5. I expected to see both securities removed from the Inverstment Summary
>>>on
>>>the main page. They were still there.
>>>
>>>6. I figured that there might be some rounding issue despite what I had
>>>done
>>>above. I went into each account for each security and attempted to do a
>>>"Remove shares" for .00001. I recieved a message that I did not have
>>>enough
>>>shares to do so.
>>>
>>>OK - I'm stumped. Do I need to keep these two securities that I no longer
>>>care about in my Investment Summary forever? Or is there a way to remove
>>>them? Please don't tell me to do a "Delete security from all accounts". I
>>>tried this and, although it did remove them from the Investment Summary,
>>>it
>>>also removed them from valuations for the current year as they were no
>>>longer shown in my Year-end for 2006. Luckily I was able to go to a backup
>>>as there is no recovery from this that I know of.
>>>
>>>Does anyone have a solution?
>>
>> The best would be to re-enter the transactions by not entering the
>> price; let Money calculate it. Instead enter the number of shares
>> and the Total.

John
Wed Dec 19 13:20:04 CST 2007

Cal,

I hope you meant just the sales - I have a ton of transactions (cg, div,
etc) over a number of years.

Anyway, I tried with the sales only - it did not work. They still remain in
Investment Summary although the accounts themslves show absolute zero.

JohnG

"Cal Learner-- MVP" <via_newsgroup@please.tnx> wrote in message
news:fblim35k8h0lgl6tblbc0uoltvb81i3fb1@4ax.com...
> In microsoft.public.money, John Gallagher wrote:
>
>>I have run into this before but I was usually able to resolve it. I cannot
>>seem to do it this time in Money Plus Deluxe. I welcome any assistance.
>>
>>Here is the situationn:
>>1. I owned two mutual funds that trade in up to four decimals, e.g.
>>12.3456.
>>These were in two accounts.
>>
>>2. I decided I wanted to sell out of these in both accounts and did so.
>>
>>3. Before I entered the sales, I balanced both accounts down to the four
>>digit decimal.
>>
>>4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced to
>>earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.
>>
>>5. I expected to see both securities removed from the Inverstment Summary
>>on
>>the main page. They were still there.
>>
>>6. I figured that there might be some rounding issue despite what I had
>>done
>>above. I went into each account for each security and attempted to do a
>>"Remove shares" for .00001. I recieved a message that I did not have
>>enough
>>shares to do so.
>>
>>OK - I'm stumped. Do I need to keep these two securities that I no longer
>>care about in my Investment Summary forever? Or is there a way to remove
>>them? Please don't tell me to do a "Delete security from all accounts". I
>>tried this and, although it did remove them from the Investment Summary,
>>it
>>also removed them from valuations for the current year as they were no
>>longer shown in my Year-end for 2006. Luckily I was able to go to a backup
>>as there is no recovery from this that I know of.
>>
>>Does anyone have a solution?
>
> The best would be to re-enter the transactions by not entering the
> price; let Money calculate it. Instead enter the number of shares
> and the Total.

Ron
Wed Dec 19 13:41:00 CST 2007

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:18:12 -0500, "John Gallagher" <jgallagher11@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I have run into this before but I was usually able to resolve it. I cannot
>seem to do it this time in Money Plus Deluxe. I welcome any assistance.
>
>Here is the situationn:
>1. I owned two mutual funds that trade in up to four decimals, e.g. 12.3456.
>These were in two accounts.
>
>2. I decided I wanted to sell out of these in both accounts and did so.
>
>3. Before I entered the sales, I balanced both accounts down to the four
>digit decimal.
>
>4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced to
>earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.
>
>5. I expected to see both securities removed from the Inverstment Summary on
>the main page. They were still there.
>
>6. I figured that there might be some rounding issue despite what I had done
>above. I went into each account for each security and attempted to do a
>"Remove shares" for .00001. I recieved a message that I did not have enough
>shares to do so.
>
>OK - I'm stumped. Do I need to keep these two securities that I no longer
>care about in my Investment Summary forever? Or is there a way to remove
>them? Please don't tell me to do a "Delete security from all accounts". I
>tried this and, although it did remove them from the Investment Summary, it
>also removed them from valuations for the current year as they were no
>longer shown in my Year-end for 2006. Luckily I was able to go to a backup
>as there is no recovery from this that I know of.
>
>Does anyone have a solution?
>
>JohnG

If I understand what you have done:

1. Delete your sales transactions (and the Remove Shares transactions).

I expect this will put you back as you were before you entered the sales. If
not, post back.

2. Re-enter the sales transactions, but ONLY ENTER the number of shares, and
the total transaction amount. Do NOT enter the Price per share (Money will
calculate that).

This still might not work if there are other transactions where you actually
entered the PRICE per share, as opposed to having Money calculate it. If that
is the case, you may have to go back and "fix" those transactions by entering
only the actual numbers of shares, and the total for the transaction.
--ron

Cal
Wed Dec 19 13:49:58 CST 2007

In microsoft.public.money, John Gallagher wrote:

>Cal,
>
>I hope you meant just the sales - I have a ton of transactions (cg, div,
>etc) over a number of years.

I am thinking more of the dividends. Here is the problem I am
addressing.

Suppose you have 100 shares of XXXXX. Suppose you enter a $30
ReinvestDividend on XXXXX with a NAV of $100. Let Money compute the
Quantity with you specifying the price and Total, Money thinks you
bought 3.333333 shares. You later sell 1003.333 thinking that is
your entire holding. Money think you still own 0.000333 shares.

Had you entered the ReinvestDividend with Money computing the price
or Total, the problem would not have happened. It is best to let
Money compute the price.

If you don't care to work with the existing dividend reinvestments,
consider this:

From the account register, AccountSummary->AccountUpdate
[ top left of screen][bottom of the screen]

Enter 0 as the Total Quantity of the investment in question, and
click SaveAndFinish to let Money make the adjustment.

>
>Anyway, I tried with the sales only - it did not work. They still remain in
>Investment Summary although the accounts themslves show absolute zero.
>
>JohnG
>
>"Cal Learner-- MVP" <via_newsgroup@please.tnx> wrote in message
>news:fblim35k8h0lgl6tblbc0uoltvb81i3fb1@4ax.com...
>> In microsoft.public.money, John Gallagher wrote:
>>
>>>I have run into this before but I was usually able to resolve it. I cannot
>>>seem to do it this time in Money Plus Deluxe. I welcome any assistance.
>>>
>>>Here is the situationn:
>>>1. I owned two mutual funds that trade in up to four decimals, e.g.
>>>12.3456.
>>>These were in two accounts.
>>>
>>>2. I decided I wanted to sell out of these in both accounts and did so.
>>>
>>>3. Before I entered the sales, I balanced both accounts down to the four
>>>digit decimal.
>>>
>>>4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced to
>>>earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.
>>>
>>>5. I expected to see both securities removed from the Inverstment Summary
>>>on
>>>the main page. They were still there.
>>>
>>>6. I figured that there might be some rounding issue despite what I had
>>>done
>>>above. I went into each account for each security and attempted to do a
>>>"Remove shares" for .00001. I recieved a message that I did not have
>>>enough
>>>shares to do so.
>>>
>>>OK - I'm stumped. Do I need to keep these two securities that I no longer
>>>care about in my Investment Summary forever? Or is there a way to remove
>>>them? Please don't tell me to do a "Delete security from all accounts". I
>>>tried this and, although it did remove them from the Investment Summary,
>>>it
>>>also removed them from valuations for the current year as they were no
>>>longer shown in my Year-end for 2006. Luckily I was able to go to a backup
>>>as there is no recovery from this that I know of.
>>>
>>>Does anyone have a solution?
>>
>> The best would be to re-enter the transactions by not entering the
>> price; let Money calculate it. Instead enter the number of shares
>> and the Total.

John
Wed Dec 19 16:51:16 CST 2007

Ron,

Both you and Cal have proposed basically the same answer. It has not worked.
Here is what I did:

I backed out the sales.
I then went to the Investment page for one of the securities. To ensure
everything balanced properly, I put all the quantities on an Excel
spreadsheet and verified that they summed to zero precisely.
I then went to each transaction from the Investment page and deleted the
price and saved on each. The prices in some cases now had up to a 5 digit
decimal.
After all of this, I went back to the Investment Summary. The security was
still there.
I then went to each of the involved accounts (two) and went to Account
Summary/Account Update to see if there was anything open for the security.
There was not.

I can't think of anything more I can do here - can you?

JohnG

"Ron Rosenfeld" <ronrosenfeld@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:7lsim3tiu2moqeceb7paku54g0lefao1ls@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:18:12 -0500, "John Gallagher"
> <jgallagher11@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I have run into this before but I was usually able to resolve it. I cannot
>>seem to do it this time in Money Plus Deluxe. I welcome any assistance.
>>
>>Here is the situationn:
>>1. I owned two mutual funds that trade in up to four decimals, e.g.
>>12.3456.
>>These were in two accounts.
>>
>>2. I decided I wanted to sell out of these in both accounts and did so.
>>
>>3. Before I entered the sales, I balanced both accounts down to the four
>>digit decimal.
>>
>>4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced to
>>earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.
>>
>>5. I expected to see both securities removed from the Inverstment Summary
>>on
>>the main page. They were still there.
>>
>>6. I figured that there might be some rounding issue despite what I had
>>done
>>above. I went into each account for each security and attempted to do a
>>"Remove shares" for .00001. I recieved a message that I did not have
>>enough
>>shares to do so.
>>
>>OK - I'm stumped. Do I need to keep these two securities that I no longer
>>care about in my Investment Summary forever? Or is there a way to remove
>>them? Please don't tell me to do a "Delete security from all accounts". I
>>tried this and, although it did remove them from the Investment Summary,
>>it
>>also removed them from valuations for the current year as they were no
>>longer shown in my Year-end for 2006. Luckily I was able to go to a backup
>>as there is no recovery from this that I know of.
>>
>>Does anyone have a solution?
>>
>>JohnG
>
> If I understand what you have done:
>
> 1. Delete your sales transactions (and the Remove Shares transactions).
>
> I expect this will put you back as you were before you entered the sales.
> If
> not, post back.
>
> 2. Re-enter the sales transactions, but ONLY ENTER the number of shares,
> and
> the total transaction amount. Do NOT enter the Price per share (Money
> will
> calculate that).
>
> This still might not work if there are other transactions where you
> actually
> entered the PRICE per share, as opposed to having Money calculate it. If
> that
> is the case, you may have to go back and "fix" those transactions by
> entering
> only the actual numbers of shares, and the total for the transaction.
> --ron

Cal
Wed Dec 19 17:16:45 CST 2007

In microsoft.public.money, John Gallagher wrote:

>
>After all of this, I went back to the Investment Summary. The security was
>still there.
>I then went to each of the involved accounts (two) and went to Account
>Summary/Account Update to see if there was anything open for the security.
>There was not.
>
>I can't think of anything more I can do here - can you?

I see. I misunderstood. I had been thinking there was some kind of
error (with wrong numbers) involved.

My suggestion would be to start with the account list, and go to the
Portfolio page to see what you are holding.

John
Wed Dec 19 18:04:07 CST 2007

Cal,

As I stated, I only owned the security in two accounts. I went to each after
changing all transactions as you stated. Neither shows any trace of a
position. Yet the security I tried is still in the Investment Summary. I
even tried a "Remove shares" down to 5 or 6 decimals(i.e. .00001, .000001) .
In each case, I received a warning that I was going to be creating a
negative position.

Is there any time Money will keep a security open for awhile in Investment
Summary even though there is no longer a position anywhere?

JohnG


"Cal Learner-- MVP" <via_newsgroup@please.tnx> wrote in message
news:pc9jm3dql5odg2chcrglsqgiit1h9nno7a@4ax.com...
> In microsoft.public.money, John Gallagher wrote:
>
>>
>>After all of this, I went back to the Investment Summary. The security was
>>still there.
>>I then went to each of the involved accounts (two) and went to Account
>>Summary/Account Update to see if there was anything open for the security.
>>There was not.
>>
>>I can't think of anything more I can do here - can you?
>
> I see. I misunderstood. I had been thinking there was some kind of
> error (with wrong numbers) involved.
>
> My suggestion would be to start with the account list, and go to the
> Portfolio page to see what you are holding.
>
>
>

Ron
Wed Dec 19 18:49:48 CST 2007

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:51:16 -0500, "John Gallagher" <jgallagher11@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Ron,
>
>Both you and Cal have proposed basically the same answer. It has not worked.
>Here is what I did:
>
>I backed out the sales.
>I then went to the Investment page for one of the securities. To ensure
>everything balanced properly, I put all the quantities on an Excel
>spreadsheet and verified that they summed to zero precisely.
>I then went to each transaction from the Investment page and deleted the
>price and saved on each. The prices in some cases now had up to a 5 digit
>decimal.
>After all of this, I went back to the Investment Summary. The security was
>still there.
>I then went to each of the involved accounts (two) and went to Account
>Summary/Account Update to see if there was anything open for the security.
>There was not.
>
>I can't think of anything more I can do here - can you?
>
>JohnG

John,

That's not quite what I recommended. Let me see if I can be more clear and
explain my reasoning.

I believe the problem is that the quantities being displayed in Money (and, of
course, carried over into Excel), are not the same as the quantities being
stored by Money.

Merely removing the Price, and letting Money recalculate, does not change the
Quantity.

It will depend on how the data was initially entered.

For example, a position recently reinvested a long-term capital gain
distribution.

Price $15.25
Shares 429.346
Total $6,547.52

What happens in money depends critically on how you enter the data.

If you have allowed Money to calculate the shares, the number of shares
displayed might be 429.345574 (as it was in a test entry I did), but stored as
429.3455738.

You can't enter that precise a number in the quantity field, so you're in a
tough situation.

Somewhere along the line, you likely allowed Money to calculate the number of
shares, rather than entering them directly.

Merely deleting the Price doesn't change that.

What you need to do is not only delete the price, but ALSO delete and then
re-enter the proper number of shares (even if the number looks correct). Then
Save and ignore the fractional error in the Money computed price.

If you were systematic in your entry method, and always had Money calculate the
numbers of shares, you might be able to enter your sale the same way (enter the
total and price, and have Money compute the number of shares). But this may
not match due to inherent errors in binary-decimal conversions and whatever
precision limits Money uses internally.


--ron

Chris
Wed Dec 19 19:37:02 CST 2007

"John Gallagher" <jgallagher11@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uiuQaMmQIHA.3388@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> 4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced
> to earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.
> ...
> Does anyone have a solution?

Delete the sales transaction. Go to the summary page and update the
qty to 0. That creates a 'remove' transaction with the exact amount
Money believes it has. Edit that transaction to a sale and edit the
date, $$, etc. Just be sure to leave the quantity alone. This should
eliminate the hidden leftovers.
--
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL

Cal
Wed Dec 19 19:50:06 CST 2007

In microsoft.public.money, Chris Cowles wrote:

>
>Delete the sales transaction. Go to the summary page and update the
>qty to 0. That creates a 'remove' transaction with the exact amount
>Money believes it has. Edit that transaction to a sale and edit the
>date, $$, etc. Just be sure to leave the quantity alone. This should
>eliminate the hidden leftovers.

If I understand correctly, he does not have leftovers. He is
bothered that the price has not disappeared from his "Home" page.

John
Wed Dec 19 20:26:05 CST 2007

Chris,

Thanks for the advice. It sounded like it might work.

Alas, I tried it exactly as you stated. I still have the security and price
in my Investment Summary on the main page.

It looks like there is no answer to this. Can there be any other reason for
an item to appear in Investment Summary even thjough there is no remaining
position? I know other recent sales cleared items from the Investment
Summary. The only difference is that those funds were with an institution
that only shows funds down to three decimals; this institution goes to four.

JohnG

"Chris Cowles" <spam_magnet@remove-me-bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:etTgUjqQIHA.5692@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "John Gallagher" <jgallagher11@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uiuQaMmQIHA.3388@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>
>> 4. I then entered the sales for the exact quantities I had balanced to
>> earlier. This left a zero quantity for each in both accounts.
>> ...
>> Does anyone have a solution?
>
> Delete the sales transaction. Go to the summary page and update the qty to
> 0. That creates a 'remove' transaction with the exact amount Money
> believes it has. Edit that transaction to a sale and edit the date, $$,
> etc. Just be sure to leave the quantity alone. This should eliminate the
> hidden leftovers.
> --
> Chris Cowles
> Gainesville, FL
>