Why Import Data From Bank for Reconciling? Need Help!!!

Hi All,

This may sound like a silly question, but why do people import data
from their bank into MS Money? For reconciling?

I would like to start using the program for this, but from what I
understand, which may not be correct, is that one of the purposes of
reconciling is to compare your records to the records of the bank. If
I download the bank's records into Money before reconciling, wouldn't I
be comparing the bank's records to the bank's records? I wouldn't catch
any bank mistakes.

I do recognize that there are 2 reasons for reconciling:

1. to compare your notes to the bank's notes, and
2. to make sure that your checkbook matches the bank's balance.

It seems like using the bank's data for import into Money would satisfy
goal number 2. I can see this being imensely helpful. But when it
comes to my money, I don't place 100% trust with the bank. A teller
may deposit money into the wrong account accidentally (or at least
hopefully accidentally!), an incorrect bank charge may show up. Your
employer may mess up and not direct deposit the money into your
account, etc.

I used to use a program similar to MS Money, but found that typing in
the information from checkbook to computer program took a long time.
Small price to pay for accuracy I guess!

What are your thoughts on this? Please respond. I want to start using
the product.

Thanks!

Seth

Cal
Tue Mar 14 23:02:59 CST 2006

In microsoft.public.money, s.fenster@gmail.com wrote:

>
>This may sound like a silly question, but why do people import data
>from their bank into MS Money? For reconciling?
>
>I would like to start using the program for this, but from what I
>understand, which may not be correct, is that one of the purposes of
>reconciling is to compare your records to the records of the bank. If
>I download the bank's records into Money before reconciling, wouldn't I
>be comparing the bank's records to the bank's records? I wouldn't catch
>any bank mistakes.
>
>I do recognize that there are 2 reasons for reconciling:
>
>1. to compare your notes to the bank's notes, and
>2. to make sure that your checkbook matches the bank's balance.
>
>It seems like using the bank's data for import into Money would satisfy
>goal number 2. I can see this being imensely helpful. But when it
>comes to my money, I don't place 100% trust with the bank. A teller
>may deposit money into the wrong account accidentally (or at least
>hopefully accidentally!), an incorrect bank charge may show up. Your
>employer may mess up and not direct deposit the money into your
>account, etc.

The reasons differ. I just download, and do a sanity check on the
downloaded transactions. Others will enter the transactions and
match the downloads to the hand-entered transactions.

Others don't download.

Each person has reasons to download (or not). And those reasons can
evolve.

Chris
Tue Mar 14 23:23:04 CST 2006

<s.fenster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142394621.791629.159260@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> This may sound like a silly question, but why do people import data
> from their bank into MS Money? For reconciling?

I do it to dramatically reduce data entry effort. I use my credit card
extensively. The result is large volumes of accurate data. That helps with
budgets and forecasting.

I reconcile balances monthly against bank statements.
--
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL

Dick
Wed Mar 15 07:56:12 CST 2006

And I don't download any transaction data, in part for the reason you cite.
I do reconcile against paper statements. Occasionally, if there is some
reason like a known very low checking balance in a month or a question about
timing a charge to the end of a statement period, I will check institution's
web sites and compare with my Money transactions and mark mine Cleared as
appropriate.

The other reason I don't download transaction data is because I don't find
entering my data all that burdensome and I read an endless litany of issues
here related to the data quality normalization and standards conformance,
transaction integrity, connection maintenance, etc., associated with the
downloaded transaction data. Read the NG for week. My perception is that of
a typical week's new posts, half are likely to stem from some issue
associated with downloading transaction data. (I could be wrong. Generate
your own metric.) Seems like all pain for precious little gain. YMMV.

Also note that not one feature in Money depends uniquely on downloaded
transaction data besides downloading transaction data. Every other feature
works just as well and, depending on how much effort you are willing to go
to cleaning up and adding value to the downloaded data, many work better
with manually entered complete data. Many things just cannot be downloaded.
Paystub information and split information are just two examples. I could go
on...

I could also go on about my belief that new users should NOT download
transaction data until they've entered data manually for at least two months
so that they understand how Money wants to work and have some notional
foundation so that they can recognize and cleanup the problems bad
downloaded data will create.

For additional reading on the subject, see:
http://umpmfaq.info/faqdb.php?cat=21
http://umpmfaq.info/faqdb.php?q=171

Also note than newer versions of Money (M05+) work desperately hard to make
you think downloaded data is the only way to go and, depending on how you
set it up, make it the only way to go. If you tell it the FI for an account,
it assumes you want to download. Don't just tell it your password/id for
these FIs or off it will go. Do not use Essential Register. Resist its
imploring you to use a Passport.

<s.fenster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142394621.791629.159260@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> This may sound like a silly question, but why do people import data
> from their bank into MS Money? For reconciling?
>
> I would like to start using the program for this, but from what I
> understand, which may not be correct, is that one of the purposes of
> reconciling is to compare your records to the records of the bank. If
> I download the bank's records into Money before reconciling, wouldn't I
> be comparing the bank's records to the bank's records? I wouldn't catch
> any bank mistakes.
>
> I do recognize that there are 2 reasons for reconciling:
>
> 1. to compare your notes to the bank's notes, and
> 2. to make sure that your checkbook matches the bank's balance.
>
> It seems like using the bank's data for import into Money would satisfy
> goal number 2. I can see this being imensely helpful. But when it
> comes to my money, I don't place 100% trust with the bank. A teller
> may deposit money into the wrong account accidentally (or at least
> hopefully accidentally!), an incorrect bank charge may show up. Your
> employer may mess up and not direct deposit the money into your
> account, etc.
>
> I used to use a program similar to MS Money, but found that typing in
> the information from checkbook to computer program took a long time.
> Small price to pay for accuracy I guess!
>
> What are your thoughts on this? Please respond. I want to start using
> the product.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Seth
>

Taylor
Wed Mar 15 09:47:40 CST 2006


<s.fenster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142394621.791629.159260@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> This may sound like a silly question, but why do people import data
> from their bank into MS Money? For reconciling?
>
> I would like to start using the program for this, but from what I
> understand, which may not be correct, is that one of the purposes of
> reconciling is to compare your records to the records of the bank. If
> I download the bank's records into Money before reconciling, wouldn't I
> be comparing the bank's records to the bank's records? I wouldn't catch
> any bank mistakes.
>
> I do recognize that there are 2 reasons for reconciling:
>
> 1. to compare your notes to the bank's notes, and
> 2. to make sure that your checkbook matches the bank's balance.
>
> It seems like using the bank's data for import into Money would satisfy
> goal number 2. I can see this being imensely helpful. But when it
> comes to my money, I don't place 100% trust with the bank. A teller
> may deposit money into the wrong account accidentally (or at least
> hopefully accidentally!), an incorrect bank charge may show up. Your
> employer may mess up and not direct deposit the money into your
> account, etc.
>
> I used to use a program similar to MS Money, but found that typing in
> the information from checkbook to computer program took a long time.
> Small price to pay for accuracy I guess!
>
> What are your thoughts on this? Please respond. I want to start using
> the product.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Seth
>

You seem to have 2 questions: 1. why download, and 2. if you download, why
reconcile.

Why download: Many features in Money are only available if the data is
there. I use the categories feature to track income and expenses, mainly
for tax reasons. Also, if you ever have a dispute with a vendor, you can do
a payee report to see how much that vendor has been paid over time. With
online bill pay and automatic downloads, I only have a few mouseclicks every
week and my whole financial chores are completed.

Why reconcile: You are right, theoretically, there should be no
discrepancies in the downloaded data. However, Money has a strange habit of
dropping entered transactions. You should reconcile to make sure your
records match the bank's records at a certain point in time, the closing
date of your statement. I have had past reconciled transactions
mysteriously disappear from Money that I have had to determine by analysing
past statements. Reconciling is just a good accounting practice to make
sure there are no strange errors by double checking the data.

s
Wed Mar 15 21:08:29 CST 2006

Thank you to everyone for your input. It has given me great insight.
I think that I will continue to enter data manually. It looks
tempting, but my main reason right now for using the product is to
ensure accuracy.

I may setup a second copy (on another computer) and download
transactions to that installation. That will be my test installation.
I'll see how it works out with retaining / importing categories. At
the very least, I can use this copy for budgeting purposes and the
other copy for reconciling purposes.

Once again, thank you!

Seth

Cal
Wed Mar 15 21:11:37 CST 2006

In microsoft.public.money, s.fenster@gmail.com wrote:

>Thank you to everyone for your input. It has given me great insight.
>I think that I will continue to enter data manually. It looks
>tempting, but my main reason right now for using the product is to
>ensure accuracy.
>
>I may setup a second copy (on another computer) and download
>transactions to that installation. That will be my test installation.


You don't need another computer. Just make a copy of your current
file under a different name. Then File->Open that file, and try your
alternative operation.

To switch between files, you can use the MRU (most recently used)
list at the bottom of the File menu.


>I'll see how it works out with retaining / importing categories. At
>the very least, I can use this copy for budgeting purposes and the
>other copy for reconciling purposes.

Dick
Wed Mar 15 21:35:48 CST 2006

Name one that doesn't work with manually entered transaction data as well or
better than with downloaded transaction data besides downloading transaction
data.

"Taylor" <123@456.com> wrote in message
news:wGWRf.20140$733.16658@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Many features in Money are only available if the data is there.

Chris
Thu Mar 16 00:10:09 CST 2006

<s.fenster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142478509.267820.283100@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> I may setup a second copy (on another computer) and download
> transactions to that installation. That will be my test installation.
> I'll see how it works out with retaining / importing categories. At
> the very least, I can use this copy for budgeting purposes and the
> other copy for reconciling purposes.

If your bank does not support direct connection, your experience may be less
satisfactory than one with a bank that does support direct connection.
--
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL

harrelsonesq
Thu Mar 16 00:54:31 CST 2006

> I think that I will continue to enter data manually. It looks
> tempting, but my main reason right now for using the product is to
> ensure accuracy.

I don't know about you, but in all the years I've been doing banking, every
single time there has been an error, it was mine. Downloaded data is close
to 100% accurate. It doesn't make mistakes adding or subtracting. It doesn't
forget to record a check. It doesn't hit the wrong key, or misread a 6 as an
8.

One time my new, merged bank started sending my deposits to a hospital in
California that had an account number with the new bank that was the same as
mine from my old bank. One time I closed an account that was not associated
with my debit card, and they cancelled my debit card so I couldn't get into
my open account. They switched the ATM's to the new bank's system, which
made them inaccessible, over a holiday weekend. Those are the kinds of
errors banks make. They don't generally type $42.99 instead of $24.99.

I used to spend hours screaming & tearing my hair out trying to reconcile
paper statements. Downloading your data frees you from the pure misery of
finding and fixing your own errors.

You can also work in close to real time. If you, or your bank, have made an
error in your account -- or god forbid, somebody has gotten access to your
account & is spending your money -- you want to know that RIGHT NOW, not
next month.

I think accuracy of the data is the biggest argument AGAINST entering
transactions manually. YMMV, especially if you are a much better typist than
I am. The ability to reconcile daily or weekly, instead of monthly, is a
close second.

Susan

Dick
Thu Mar 16 07:25:55 CST 2006

That depends on what part of accuracy is important to you. Amounts are
probably pretty good this way. Payees, categories, splits, memos, etc. are
surely not as good. And even amounts seem to be problematic--or at least the
sign on the amount--for all too many posters.

I agree that most of the problems I find reconciling to paper statements are
from my manual entry. But I do find occasional charges, say, that come
through at different amounts than I have a slip or invoice for. I've even
seen checks come through that had the MICR amount encoded with differences
than what the check was written for. I value finding these cases for some
odd, probably anal-retentive, reason.

"harrelsonesq" <harrelsonesq2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OjrrEbMSGHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I think accuracy of the data is the biggest argument AGAINST entering
> transactions manually.

s
Thu Mar 16 09:00:16 CST 2006

I think my bank only supports QIF exports. Pretty bad, right? I used
to use Quicken, and they started using something called OFX, which they
say is a standard. Not saying that it isn't. I just don't know if MS
Money uses the same format. I don't think my bank supports direct
connection. I will check though. I think if I download into MS Money
and then look over the paper statement, and then eyeball the downloaded
transactions, that should be good enough for me. Thanks!

Dick
Thu Mar 16 11:21:24 CST 2006

Money supports OFX. You can load the OFX file once you download it from the
bank outside Money. The alternative to direct connect that was probably
being referred to is "third party services" or Yodlee. Yodlee has proven
problematic for many users.

<s.fenster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142521216.669433.233840@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> I think my bank only supports QIF exports. Pretty bad, right? I used
> to use Quicken, and they started using something called OFX, which they
> say is a standard. Not saying that it isn't. I just don't know if MS
> Money uses the same format. I don't think my bank supports direct
> connection. I will check though. I think if I download into MS Money
> and then look over the paper statement, and then eyeball the downloaded
> transactions, that should be good enough for me. Thanks!
>

Chris
Thu Mar 16 17:47:24 CST 2006

<s.fenster@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142521216.669433.233840@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> I used to use Quicken, and they started using something called OFX,
> which they say is a standard. Not saying that it isn't.

It is.

> I just don't know if MS Money uses the same format.

They do.

> I think if I download into MS Money and then look over the
> paper statement, and then eyeball the downloaded
> transactions, that should be good enough for me.

If you can retrieve it only from the web, you can save it as a file and open
it with Notepad. After satisfying yourself of its accuracy, import it into
Money.

I'm guessing you'll only do that a few times after which you'll determine
that what's on your statement is what's in that file. It doesn't matter that
it matches your perception of events. It matters that it matches what your
bank recorded, including correcting entries, if any.
--
Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL

harrelsonesq
Thu Mar 16 22:32:55 CST 2006

Ah yes, I had forgotten the wrong MICR amount. That has only happened to me
twice, and both were years and years ago. Both times, credit card payments
of $50.00 were paid as .50.

That is the kind of error that is totally easy to spot, though, whether it
shows up on paper or in a download, because nobody ever makes a payment of
.50 for anything. Even my cash has to be at least $5.00 off before I'll
enter a "miscellaneous" expense.

Of course, since I write less than 10 checks a year anymore, MICR errors are
unlikely. The last payment I made that was FUBAR was last year some time,
when my BankOne card, that used to be First, that used to be something else
that I can't remember, that used to be, etc., went Chase and my account
number changed itself in my bank's bill pay to one of the old ones.

At least I THINK it was one of the old ones -- it wasn't the current one,
wasn't ANY current one, and I didn't change it myself. So my payment didn't
get credited, but Wells Fargo called me, got Chase on the line, and we fixed
the problem in a couple of minutes with no consequences to me. I am 99.99%
sure it was something on the Chase conversion end. I still haven't figured
out how they changed the account number on my bank's system, though.

The only problem I have ever had with downloaded data is setup failure.
Those accounts I just enter manually. If I ever get it to download in the
first place, it's right. Like I said, though, anybody's MMV, dependent more
likely than not on their FI's particular quirks.

Susan

"Dick Watson" <littlegreengecko@mind-enufalready-spring.com> wrote in
message news:uZ2Po0PSGHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> That depends on what part of accuracy is important to you. Amounts are
> probably pretty good this way. Payees, categories, splits, memos, etc. are
> surely not as good. And even amounts seem to be problematic--or at least
> the sign on the amount--for all too many posters.
>
> I agree that most of the problems I find reconciling to paper statements
> are from my manual entry. But I do find occasional charges, say, that come
> through at different amounts than I have a slip or invoice for. I've even
> seen checks come through that had the MICR amount encoded with differences
> than what the check was written for. I value finding these cases for some
> odd, probably anal-retentive, reason.
>
> "harrelsonesq" <harrelsonesq2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:OjrrEbMSGHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> I think accuracy of the data is the biggest argument AGAINST entering
>> transactions manually.
>
>

s
Fri Mar 17 11:18:23 CST 2006

I'm using the QIF file to import the transactions. I check the debits
and credits from my register and make sure they match the bank's
records. I then fill in the details that I want, e.g. categories, name
of person who check was written to (it only says "CHECK" next to check
number), etc.

Saves me a lot of time in data entry. Verifying data is much easier
than typing it in manually. Thanks to everyone!