IRA's and 401(k)'s

There is not way to change accounts from 401(k) to Roth 401(k) [which is not
even an option and has been out for a couple years] or to change an IRA to a
Roth IRA without creating a new account. There would need to be away to
track pre roth amount and post roth amount.




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Dick
Sat Jan 27 18:30:17 CST 2007

The only reason for Money to make a distinction between 401(k)/Roth 401(k)
and IRA/Roth IRA would be if it had some features for handling
distributions. It doesn't. Make a suggestion for add tax deferred account
distribution-related features and I'll vote for it. When they come back and
add that feature, I'll vote for this one.

Heck, Money can't even schedule a transaction on the 3rd Wednesday of the
month... So many suggestions, so few people at Microsoft who care.

"NW" <NW@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F25751DF-7BCD-45FC-8DBB-1FDE5342EAFA@microsoft.com...
> There is not way to change accounts from 401(k) to Roth 401(k) [which is
> not
> even an option and has been out for a couple years] or to change an IRA to
> a
> Roth IRA without creating a new account. There would need to be away to
> track pre roth amount and post roth amount.

JonathanAltman
Wed Apr 11 12:24:02 CDT 2007

So am i reading this correctly? there is no way to create a Roth 401(k)
account?

My IRA is a Roth, and i believe i have it set up as such in Money.

I currently have a 401(k) with Fidelity. In every year prior to 2007 i was
making regular (non-roth) contributions, but in January of 2007 i started
making Roth contributions. Fidelity just shows my account as one combined
entity, but obviously the tax treatment of the two is different so even if
Money can't understand why that's important, i'd like to be able to segregate
my contributions accordingly. Should i set up a separate account for my Roth
contributions or is there some way to designate that certain transactions as
regular and certain as Roth?




"Dick Watson" wrote:

> The only reason for Money to make a distinction between 401(k)/Roth 401(k)
> and IRA/Roth IRA would be if it had some features for handling
> distributions. It doesn't. Make a suggestion for add tax deferred account
> distribution-related features and I'll vote for it. When they come back and
> add that feature, I'll vote for this one.
>
> Heck, Money can't even schedule a transaction on the 3rd Wednesday of the
> month... So many suggestions, so few people at Microsoft who care.
>
> "NW" <NW@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:F25751DF-7BCD-45FC-8DBB-1FDE5342EAFA@microsoft.com...
> > There is not way to change accounts from 401(k) to Roth 401(k) [which is
> > not
> > even an option and has been out for a couple years] or to change an IRA to
> > a
> > Roth IRA without creating a new account. There would need to be away to
> > track pre roth amount and post roth amount.
>
>
>

Dick
Wed Apr 11 18:18:32 CDT 2007

I'm not aware of a way to define a 401(k) account in Money as being a Roth
401(k) to Money.

As the prior post notes, the distinction would have little meaning in Money
given how little they do with the future distributions--in terms of things
like Tax Estimator, etc--anyway. So call it a 401(k) for Money's purposes.
The fact that it's really a Roth 401(k) and Money doesn't know it won't
matter much.

Now, as to your problem specifically of having one 401(k) at FidInv that has
Roth $s and non-Roth $s: IF you download transaction data, you'll probably
have very little choice but to keep it as one merged account in Money. Even
if you don't download, if the Roth money and the non-Roth money are invested
in the same things. I think you'll have little choice but to treat it
FidInv's way. How would you enter a Dividend if FidInv just shows one lump
and you have Roth and non-Roth investments in separate Money accounts to
assign this to? Too ugly is where I get to. This is kinda like the vesting
question: when you need to know the difference FidInv will tell you. Then
you can worry separating it in Money.

Now, doing things like projected future taxes/Lifetime Planner kinds of
stuff without knowing this distinction will be hard an Money will probably
screw it up. The only solution to that is probably Excel. Excel, the Money
user's favorite add-on utility.

"Jonathan Altman" <JonathanAltman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:5AF1B2A8-4D42-4799-B7D1-F2AC6FAAB4D8@microsoft.com...
> So am i reading this correctly? there is no way to create a Roth 401(k)
> account?
>
> My IRA is a Roth, and i believe i have it set up as such in Money.
>
> I currently have a 401(k) with Fidelity. In every year prior to 2007 i was
> making regular (non-roth) contributions, but in January of 2007 i started
> making Roth contributions. Fidelity just shows my account as one combined
> entity, but obviously the tax treatment of the two is different so even if
> Money can't understand why that's important, i'd like to be able to
> segregate
> my contributions accordingly. Should i set up a separate account for my
> Roth
> contributions or is there some way to designate that certain transactions
> as
> regular and certain as Roth?

cpa10house
Sun Nov 04 05:18:00 PST 2007

I hadn't looked that closely before, but I guess Money really doesn't require
you to designate a 401(k) as either Roth or Traditional. What about Roth
IRA's vs. Traditional IRA's?

Given that, how does the Lifetime Planner handle distributions for tax
purposes out of the accounts? Does it consider all withdrawals as taxable
when withdrawn?

"Dick Watson" wrote:

> I'm not aware of a way to define a 401(k) account in Money as being a Roth
> 401(k) to Money.
>
> As the prior post notes, the distinction would have little meaning in Money
> given how little they do with the future distributions--in terms of things
> like Tax Estimator, etc--anyway. So call it a 401(k) for Money's purposes.
> The fact that it's really a Roth 401(k) and Money doesn't know it won't
> matter much.
>
> Now, as to your problem specifically of having one 401(k) at FidInv that has
> Roth $s and non-Roth $s: IF you download transaction data, you'll probably
> have very little choice but to keep it as one merged account in Money. Even
> if you don't download, if the Roth money and the non-Roth money are invested
> in the same things. I think you'll have little choice but to treat it
> FidInv's way. How would you enter a Dividend if FidInv just shows one lump
> and you have Roth and non-Roth investments in separate Money accounts to
> assign this to? Too ugly is where I get to. This is kinda like the vesting
> question: when you need to know the difference FidInv will tell you. Then
> you can worry separating it in Money.
>
> Now, doing things like projected future taxes/Lifetime Planner kinds of
> stuff without knowing this distinction will be hard an Money will probably
> screw it up. The only solution to that is probably Excel. Excel, the Money
> user's favorite add-on utility.
>
> "Jonathan Altman" <JonathanAltman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:5AF1B2A8-4D42-4799-B7D1-F2AC6FAAB4D8@microsoft.com...
> > So am i reading this correctly? there is no way to create a Roth 401(k)
> > account?
> >
> > My IRA is a Roth, and i believe i have it set up as such in Money.
> >
> > I currently have a 401(k) with Fidelity. In every year prior to 2007 i was
> > making regular (non-roth) contributions, but in January of 2007 i started
> > making Roth contributions. Fidelity just shows my account as one combined
> > entity, but obviously the tax treatment of the two is different so even if
> > Money can't understand why that's important, i'd like to be able to
> > segregate
> > my contributions accordingly. Should i set up a separate account for my
> > Roth
> > contributions or is there some way to designate that certain transactions
> > as
> > regular and certain as Roth?
>
>
>

Dick
Sun Nov 04 05:28:03 PST 2007

I don't believe it knows a Roth IRA from a Traditional either, IIRC.

Re. LP and tax burden on distributions from Roth IRAs vs. Traditional IRAs:
that's a great question I've never researched. My bet (without digging into
it) is that it taxes them both the same and maybe not even correctly in
either case. Given all of the uncertainty about future events--things like
what will the tax laws and rates really be, say--I think you need to be
really cautious when examining any of the data from LP.

"cpa10house" <cpa10house@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:AA36A2BB-1764-4106-96F4-74AF68FB87AF@microsoft.com...
>I hadn't looked that closely before, but I guess Money really doesn't
>require
> you to designate a 401(k) as either Roth or Traditional. What about Roth
> IRA's vs. Traditional IRA's?
>
> Given that, how does the Lifetime Planner handle distributions for tax
> purposes out of the accounts? Does it consider all withdrawals as taxable
> when withdrawn?