Converting Vanguard mutual fund shares from Investor to Admiral shares

Hello,

I have a question about how to enter this particular mutual fund
activity in Money. Here is the scenario:

- I have Vanguard 500 Index Investor mutual fund shares that I am
converting to Vanguard 500 Index Admiral mutual fund shares.
- Vanguard treats this transaction as an "exchange" from Investor shares
to Admiral shares. There is no buy or sell.
- The ticker symbol for Admiral shares is different from Investor shares.
- The share price is a few cents different between the two types of shares.

My question is:
- What's the best way to enter this conversion from Investor shares to
Admiral shares in MS Money? (I would like to retain my cost basis
information when the shares are converted to Admiral shares. I'm
concerned if I do a "sell" of the Investor shares and a "buy" of Admiral
shares I will lose the cost basis and dividend/capital gains history in
the process.)

Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide.

Regards,
- Ted.

Cal
Fri Sep 01 18:40:12 CDT 2006

In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:

>
>I have a question about how to enter this particular mutual fund
>activity in Money. Here is the scenario:
>
>- I have Vanguard 500 Index Investor mutual fund shares that I am
>converting to Vanguard 500 Index Admiral mutual fund shares.
>- Vanguard treats this transaction as an "exchange" from Investor shares
>to Admiral shares. There is no buy or sell.
>- The ticker symbol for Admiral shares is different from Investor shares.
>- The share price is a few cents different between the two types of shares.
>
>My question is:
>- What's the best way to enter this conversion from Investor shares to
>Admiral shares in MS Money? (I would like to retain my cost basis
>information when the shares are converted to Admiral shares. I'm
>concerned if I do a "sell" of the Investor shares and a "buy" of Admiral
>shares I will lose the cost basis and dividend/capital gains history in
>the process.)

Handling a Mutual Fund Reorg or conversion from B to A shares.

This method can be use if all of your shares of that fund are being
converted to:

1. Do an appropriate split of the fund. You will need to input
the split ratio a ratio of integers (1 ... 65535). Post the ratio
you want to achieve.

2. In the investment details, change the symbol.

3. Change the investment name.

4. Add a brief comment to the investment to explain the change.

This does not handle the case where only part of your shares are
converting.

Ted
Fri Sep 01 20:02:23 CDT 2006

Cal Learner-- MVP wrote:
> In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:
>
>
>>I have a question about how to enter this particular mutual fund
>>activity in Money. Here is the scenario:
>>
>>- I have Vanguard 500 Index Investor mutual fund shares that I am
>>converting to Vanguard 500 Index Admiral mutual fund shares.
>>- Vanguard treats this transaction as an "exchange" from Investor shares
>>to Admiral shares. There is no buy or sell.
>>- The ticker symbol for Admiral shares is different from Investor shares.
>>- The share price is a few cents different between the two types of shares.
>>
>>My question is:
>>- What's the best way to enter this conversion from Investor shares to
>>Admiral shares in MS Money? (I would like to retain my cost basis
>>information when the shares are converted to Admiral shares. I'm
>>concerned if I do a "sell" of the Investor shares and a "buy" of Admiral
>>shares I will lose the cost basis and dividend/capital gains history in
>>the process.)
>
>
> Handling a Mutual Fund Reorg or conversion from B to A shares.
>
> This method can be use if all of your shares of that fund are being
> converted to:
>
> 1. Do an appropriate split of the fund. You will need to input
> the split ratio a ratio of integers (1 ... 65535). Post the ratio
> you want to achieve.
>
> 2. In the investment details, change the symbol.
>
> 3. Change the investment name.
>
> 4. Add a brief comment to the investment to explain the change.
>
> This does not handle the case where only part of your shares are
> converting.

Hi Cal,

Thanks for replying and for the information.

I'm not clear on what I'm supposed to do in step #1. What does "an
appropriate split of the fund" mean? What does "split ratio" mean and
how do I determine it? Can you give me an example?

I own the fund in both a 401(k) and a non-retirement account. I'm
converting all the shares of the fund in the non-retirement account, but
none of the shares in the 401(k) account. Can I still use this method
in the non-retirement account since I'm converting all shares in that
account? If not, is there another way to handle this?

Thanks!
- Ted.

Dick
Fri Sep 01 20:57:13 CDT 2006

There is an investment task for entering a stock split. You would do this
for a mutual fund. The split ratio is how many shares you had/how many
shares you have. Say you had 500 shares at $10 a share and exchanged them to
250 shares at $20 a share, this is a 2:1 ratio.

But if you still hold the old fund in another account, this technique will
not be suitable. The reason it will not be suitable is that the split is
applied to the underlying investment and you hold positions in this
investment in two places. Cal was counting on that not being the case
because Money doesn't provide a neat alternative if it is.

Your best--bad from a reporting standpoint--choice is probably a Sell of one
and a Buy of the other. This will screw up tax and performance reporting.
But I'm not sure there is a better way. Perhaps Cal will drop back in with
one.

"Ted" <tedj1971@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2dmdncY0iv6CRWXZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> I'm not clear on what I'm supposed to do in step #1. What does "an
> appropriate split of the fund" mean? What does "split ratio" mean and how
> do I determine it? Can you give me an example?
>
> I own the fund in both a 401(k) and a non-retirement account. I'm
> converting all the shares of the fund in the non-retirement account, but
> none of the shares in the 401(k) account. Can I still use this method in
> the non-retirement account since I'm converting all shares in that
> account? If not, is there another way to handle this?

Cal
Fri Sep 01 23:01:18 CDT 2006

In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:

>
>I'm not clear on what I'm supposed to do in step #1. What does "an
>appropriate split of the fund" mean? What does "split ratio" mean and
>how do I determine it? Can you give me an example?

Suppose you had 12345.67 shares of the old exchanged tax free for
11223.45 shares of the new.

You would like to split 1 share every for 1.0999888626 earlier
shares. However you cannot use fractional values for entering a
split. So you would enter a 44895 shares for every 49384 shares
split.

What ratio are you trying to achieve?

Michael
Sat Sep 02 07:53:23 CDT 2006

Cal's method won't work if you're retaining some of the shares. One
possibility:
1. Do a Remove Shares of the Investor and an Add Shares of the Admiral in
your taxable account. Figure out the cost basis of your Investor shares and
use that amount for for Admiral shares. Date basis could be trickier, but
luckily mutual funds don't have to treated as separate lots when sold, so
make a note to use a VAR-L when accounting for sales.

--
Michael Gordon
MVP


"Ted" <tedj1971@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2dmdncY0iv6CRWXZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Cal Learner-- MVP wrote:
>> In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have a question about how to enter this particular mutual fund activity
>>>in Money. Here is the scenario:
>>>
>>>- I have Vanguard 500 Index Investor mutual fund shares that I am
>>>converting to Vanguard 500 Index Admiral mutual fund shares.
>>>- Vanguard treats this transaction as an "exchange" from Investor shares
>>>to Admiral shares. There is no buy or sell.
>>>- The ticker symbol for Admiral shares is different from Investor shares.
>>>- The share price is a few cents different between the two types of
>>>shares.
>>>
>>>My question is:
>>>- What's the best way to enter this conversion from Investor shares to
>>>Admiral shares in MS Money? (I would like to retain my cost basis
>>>information when the shares are converted to Admiral shares. I'm
>>>concerned if I do a "sell" of the Investor shares and a "buy" of Admiral
>>>shares I will lose the cost basis and dividend/capital gains history in
>>>the process.)
>>
>>
>> Handling a Mutual Fund Reorg or conversion from B to A shares.
>>
>> This method can be use if all of your shares of that fund are being
>> converted to:
>>
>> 1. Do an appropriate split of the fund. You will need to input
>> the split ratio a ratio of integers (1 ... 65535). Post the ratio
>> you want to achieve.
>>
>> 2. In the investment details, change the symbol.
>>
>> 3. Change the investment name.
>>
>> 4. Add a brief comment to the investment to explain the change.
>>
>> This does not handle the case where only part of your shares are
>> converting.
>
> Hi Cal,
>
> Thanks for replying and for the information.
>
> I'm not clear on what I'm supposed to do in step #1. What does "an
> appropriate split of the fund" mean? What does "split ratio" mean and how
> do I determine it? Can you give me an example?
>
> I own the fund in both a 401(k) and a non-retirement account. I'm
> converting all the shares of the fund in the non-retirement account, but
> none of the shares in the 401(k) account. Can I still use this method in
> the non-retirement account since I'm converting all shares in that
> account? If not, is there another way to handle this?
>
> Thanks!
> - Ted.

Ted
Sat Sep 02 14:23:59 CDT 2006

Cal Learner-- MVP wrote:

> In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:
>
>
>>I'm not clear on what I'm supposed to do in step #1. What does "an
>>appropriate split of the fund" mean? What does "split ratio" mean and
>>how do I determine it? Can you give me an example?
>
>
> Suppose you had 12345.67 shares of the old exchanged tax free for
> 11223.45 shares of the new.
>
> You would like to split 1 share every for 1.0999888626 earlier
> shares. However you cannot use fractional values for entering a
> split. So you would enter a 44895 shares for every 49384 shares
> split.
>
> What ratio are you trying to achieve?

The ratio I'm trying to achieve is:
676.379 shares of the old exchanged for 676.267 shares of the new.

Cal, can you give me the whole numbers that would give that ratio?

What I've done thus far is I went to every transaction in the investment
account and changed the investment name to the new Admiral fund. I
checked the reports in MS Money and it appears to have retained the
correct cost basis, gain/loss, %rate return, avg cost/share, annual
%return, etc.

Now I think all I need to do is enter the split to give me the correct
number of new shares.

Does anyone see any problems with this approach?
Cal, can you send me the numbers I need for the split?

Thanks,
Ted.

Ted
Sat Sep 02 14:27:56 CDT 2006

Michael Gordon, MVP wrote:

> Cal's method won't work if you're retaining some of the shares. One
> possibility:
> 1. Do a Remove Shares of the Investor and an Add Shares of the Admiral in
> your taxable account. Figure out the cost basis of your Investor shares and
> use that amount for for Admiral shares. Date basis could be trickier, but
> luckily mutual funds don't have to treated as separate lots when sold, so
> make a note to use a VAR-L when accounting for sales.
>

Michael, thanks for the suggestion. I tried this and Money showed the
correct cost basis (which I want to keep), but I lost the performance
and gain/loss information (that I would also like to keep).

At the moment, I'm trying a different approach based on Cal's suggestion
(see my reply to Cal). If my new approach doesn't work, I'll probably
do the Remove/Add shares.

Thanks again.

Cal
Sat Sep 02 14:31:32 CDT 2006

In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:

>Cal Learner-- MVP wrote:
>
>> In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm not clear on what I'm supposed to do in step #1. What does "an
>>>appropriate split of the fund" mean? What does "split ratio" mean and
>>>how do I determine it? Can you give me an example?
>>
>>
>> Suppose you had 12345.67 shares of the old exchanged tax free for
>> 11223.45 shares of the new.
>>
>> You would like to split 1 share every for 1.0999888626 earlier
>> shares. However you cannot use fractional values for entering a
>> split. So you would enter a 44895 shares for every 49384 shares
>> split.
>>
>> What ratio are you trying to achieve?
>
>The ratio I'm trying to achieve is:
>676.379 shares of the old exchanged for 676.267 shares of the new.

Split the shares 60381 shares for every 60391 shares.

Ted
Sat Sep 02 15:04:02 CDT 2006

Cal Learner-- MVP wrote:
> In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:
>
>
>>Cal Learner-- MVP wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm not clear on what I'm supposed to do in step #1. What does "an
>>>>appropriate split of the fund" mean? What does "split ratio" mean and
>>>>how do I determine it? Can you give me an example?
>>>
>>>
>>>Suppose you had 12345.67 shares of the old exchanged tax free for
>>>11223.45 shares of the new.
>>>
>>>You would like to split 1 share every for 1.0999888626 earlier
>>>shares. However you cannot use fractional values for entering a
>>>split. So you would enter a 44895 shares for every 49384 shares
>>>split.
>>>
>>>What ratio are you trying to achieve?
>>
>>The ratio I'm trying to achieve is:
>>676.379 shares of the old exchanged for 676.267 shares of the new.
>
>
> Split the shares 60381 shares for every 60391 shares.
>
>
>
Thank you, Cal. It looks good now in MS Money. The cost basis and
performance info has been retained in Money, and agrees with what
Vanguard is showing on their site for my account.

How do you calculate the whole numbers? I'll be going through this
exercise for another fund in a month.

Cal
Sat Sep 02 15:51:47 CDT 2006

In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:

>
>Thank you, Cal. It looks good now in MS Money. The cost basis and
>performance info has been retained in Money, and agrees with what
>Vanguard is showing on their site for my account.
>
>How do you calculate the whole numbers? I'll be going through this
>exercise for another fund in a month.

I wrote a little program.

Dick Watson also wrote one and put it on the web:

http://umpmfaq.info/IntegralSplits.htm

They usually give the same results.

Michael
Sat Sep 02 17:03:32 CDT 2006

An interesting approach, Ted - only problem with it is that the price
history will be based on the Investor prices and, once you update the
Admiral shares, the results will be askew. If that isn't a problem, then
your method should work.

--
Michael Gordon
MVP


"Ted" <tedj1971@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:UvudnZNU9anSR2TZnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Cal Learner-- MVP wrote:
>
>> In microsoft.public.money, Ted wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm not clear on what I'm supposed to do in step #1. What does "an
>>>appropriate split of the fund" mean? What does "split ratio" mean and
>>>how do I determine it? Can you give me an example?
>>
>>
>> Suppose you had 12345.67 shares of the old exchanged tax free for
>> 11223.45 shares of the new.
>>
>> You would like to split 1 share every for 1.0999888626 earlier
>> shares. However you cannot use fractional values for entering a
>> split. So you would enter a 44895 shares for every 49384 shares
>> split.
>>
>> What ratio are you trying to achieve?
>
> The ratio I'm trying to achieve is:
> 676.379 shares of the old exchanged for 676.267 shares of the new.
>
> Cal, can you give me the whole numbers that would give that ratio?
>
> What I've done thus far is I went to every transaction in the investment
> account and changed the investment name to the new Admiral fund. I
> checked the reports in MS Money and it appears to have retained the
> correct cost basis, gain/loss, %rate return, avg cost/share, annual
> %return, etc.
>
> Now I think all I need to do is enter the split to give me the correct
> number of new shares.
>
> Does anyone see any problems with this approach?
> Cal, can you send me the numbers I need for the split?
>
> Thanks,
> Ted.