Jonathan,

I always read you answers here when having troubles with messenger. Often
this makes things clearer to me.

Now, there is a problem in a Dutch messenger newsgroup in which it is said
that the problems with "no audio" with webcams are solved (even behind NAT
and with ALL routers, including non UPnP routers) IF both parties use MSN7.

Is this correct?

mvg,
Hans
noonallREMOVETHIS@hotmailREMOVETHIS.com

Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Wouter

Wouter
Sat Mar 19 05:30:39 CST 2005

"me" <noonall_fake@hotmailfake.com> wrote in
news:d1gvm2$svm$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl

> Jonathan,
>
> I always read you answers here when having troubles with
> messenger. Often this makes things clearer to me.
>
> Now, there is a problem in a Dutch messenger newsgroup in
> which it is said that the problems with "no audio" with
> webcams are solved (even behind NAT and with ALL routers,
> including non UPnP routers) IF both parties use MSN7.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> mvg,
> Hans
> noonallREMOVETHIS@hotmailREMOVETHIS.com

Greetings from Holland too...
Would be nice..if Skype can do straightforward Audio under
virtual any condition, why would MSN Messenger keep you from
trying the same ;-)
Recently I was in the US, with Skype from the hotel room (with a
wireless connection) over the internet to home in the
Netherlands, with the home PC behind NAT, audio was like we
where all sitting in the same room.



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Leo

Leo
Sat Mar 19 06:54:34 CST 2005

me wrote:
> Jonathan,
>
> I always read you answers here when having troubles with messenger.
> Often this makes things clearer to me.
>
> Now, there is a problem in a Dutch messenger newsgroup in which it is
> said that the problems with "no audio" with webcams are solved (even
> behind NAT and with ALL routers, including non UPnP routers) IF both
> parties use MSN7.
> Is this correct?

Have you tried? And? Did it work?



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Jonathan

Jonathan
Sat Mar 19 14:31:43 CST 2005

"Wouter" <wouter@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> Greetings from Holland too...
> Would be nice..if Skype can do straightforward Audio under
> virtual any condition, why would MSN Messenger keep you from
> trying the same ;-)
> Recently I was in the US, with Skype from the hotel room (with a
> wireless connection) over the internet to home in the
> Netherlands, with the home PC behind NAT, audio was like we
> where all sitting in the same room.

Well Skype uses it's own peer-to-peer distributive protocol. For example, the other day I
used Skype to talk to a friend in Spain; for such a connection, I was connected to a node in
the Netherlands, Russia and various places in the US.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Jonathan

Jonathan
Sat Mar 19 14:34:10 CST 2005

Greetings Hans,

Actually yes, with the latest builds of 7 being used, yes, it should work through NATs even
without UPnP enabled hardware.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.

"me" <noonall_fake@hotmailfake.com> wrote in message
news:d1gvm2$svm$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
> Jonathan,
>
> I always read you answers here when having troubles with messenger. Often this makes things
> clearer to me.
>
> Now, there is a problem in a Dutch messenger newsgroup in which it is said that the
> problems with "no audio" with webcams are solved (even behind NAT and with ALL routers,
> including non UPnP routers) IF both parties use MSN7.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> mvg,
> Hans
> noonallREMOVETHIS@hotmailREMOVETHIS.com
>



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Wouter

Wouter
Sat Mar 19 16:54:29 CST 2005

"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> wrote in
news:eubkCMMLFHA.2604@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl

> Greetings Hans,
>
> Actually yes, with the latest builds of 7 being used, yes,
> it should work through NATs even without UPnP enabled
> hardware.

What buildnumber(s) should work?
Seems version 7.0.0429 is around, the latest Dutch build version
seems to be 7.0.0425.



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Jonathan

Jonathan
Sat Mar 19 20:02:28 CST 2005

Hi Wouter,

Not those, I'm referring to the latest private builds (which you can probably just Google and
get).
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.

"Wouter" <wouter@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:u92bSaNLFHA.2824@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> wrote in
> news:eubkCMMLFHA.2604@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl
>
>> Greetings Hans,
>>
>> Actually yes, with the latest builds of 7 being used, yes,
>> it should work through NATs even without UPnP enabled
>> hardware.
>
> What buildnumber(s) should work?
> Seems version 7.0.0429 is around, the latest Dutch build version seems to be 7.0.0425.
>



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Jabez

Jabez
Sat Mar 19 21:08:21 CST 2005

Jonathan,

I thought that we were not suppose to install any private beta builds? And
why are you providing users the method to get a private beta build?

Wouter, MS will not be responsible when your machine chokes up after
installing private beta builds.

--
Jabez Gan
Give me a chance, Let me help you!
http://www.blizhosting.com


"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> wrote in message
news:Ohj5fDPLFHA.2252@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Hi Wouter,
>
> Not those, I'm referring to the latest private builds (which you can
> probably just Google and get).
> ____________________________________________
> Jonathan Kay
> Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
> Associate Expert
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
> You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
>
> "Wouter" <wouter@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:u92bSaNLFHA.2824@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> wrote in
>> news:eubkCMMLFHA.2604@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl
>>
>>> Greetings Hans,
>>>
>>> Actually yes, with the latest builds of 7 being used, yes,
>>> it should work through NATs even without UPnP enabled
>>> hardware.
>>
>> What buildnumber(s) should work?
>> Seems version 7.0.0429 is around, the latest Dutch build version seems to
>> be 7.0.0425.
>>
>
>



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Wouter

Wouter
Sun Mar 20 01:02:03 CST 2005

"Jabez Gan" <mingteikg@blizNOSPAMhosting.com> wrote in
news:%23xq6UoPLFHA.244@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl

> Jonathan,
>
> I thought that we were not suppose to install any private
> beta builds? And why are you providing users the method to
> get a private beta build?
>
> Wouter, MS will not be responsible when your machine chokes
> up after installing private beta builds.
>
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> wrote
> in message news:Ohj5fDPLFHA.2252@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> Hi Wouter,
>>
>> Not those, I'm referring to the latest private builds
>> (which you can probably just Google and get).
>> ____________________________________________
>> Jonathan Kay
>> Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
>> Associate Expert
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>> All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan
>> Kay.
>> You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
>>
>> "Wouter" <wouter@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:u92bSaNLFHA.2824@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <msnewsreplies@jonathankay.com> wrote
>>> in news:eubkCMMLFHA.2604@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl
>>>
>>>> Greetings Hans,
>>>>
>>>> Actually yes, with the latest builds of 7 being used, yes,
>>>> it should work through NATs even without UPnP enabled
>>>> hardware.
>>>
>>> What buildnumber(s) should work?
>>> Seems version 7.0.0429 is around, the latest Dutch build
>>> version seems to be 7.0.0425.

Thanks for the reminder-warning.
I never install obscure software or beta versions on production-
or otherwise important machines.
I think the hint of Jon is not more than helping everyone to see
more clarity in the unclear status created my Microsoft itself
around MSN Messenger 7 (beta).
Microsoft is since ever very unclear in exact version (build)
information ot their MSN Messenger releases and the release
notes. Version 7 made it even worse and confusing for regular
consumers.



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by me

me
Sun Mar 20 04:23:21 CST 2005

> Well Skype uses it's own peer-to-peer distributive protocol. For example,
> the other day I used Skype to talk to a friend in Spain; for such a
> connection, I was connected to a node in the Netherlands, Russia and
> various places in the US.
> ____________________________________________
> Jonathan Kay
> Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger


Jonathan,

A suggestion.
Like MS does normally... BUY Skypes protocol and use it for msn ;-)

Hans



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Jonathan

Jonathan
Sun Mar 20 07:36:24 CST 2005

I'll suggest it ;)
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.

"me" <noonall_fake@hotmailfake.com> wrote in message
news:d1jive$9g7$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
> Jonathan,
>
> A suggestion.
> Like MS does normally... BUY Skypes protocol and use it for msn ;-)
>
> Hans
>



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Jonathan

Jonathan
Sun Mar 20 07:47:57 CST 2005

Hi,

MSN Messenger is a free product, regardless if you install the production release, public
beta, or private beta, if something "bad" happens, you are basically on your own with the
exception of some prefabbed e-mail support or telephone support (if you're a paid MSN
subscriber).

Messenger itself keeps its libraries separate from anything else using Windows' side-by-side
technology, there are no major registry chances that get made by installing it and about the
only thing that can possibly get "blown up" is the Windows Installer (and that's fixable
anyway).

As the MVP for Messenger for the past four years, I've seen "leaked" beta versions of
Messenger for years and I'm not going to pretend they don't exist when a simple Google search
will bring them up from -legitimate- download sites. You can learn quite a lot and gain
valuable feedback this way instead of burying ones head in the sand.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.



"Wouter" <wouter@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:O0MKOrRLFHA.1476@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Thanks for the reminder-warning.
> I never install obscure software or beta versions on production-
> or otherwise important machines.
> I think the hint of Jon is not more than helping everyone to see
> more clarity in the unclear status created my Microsoft itself
> around MSN Messenger 7 (beta).
> Microsoft is since ever very unclear in exact version (build)
> information ot their MSN Messenger releases and the release
> notes. Version 7 made it even worse and confusing for regular
> consumers.
>
>



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Jabez

Jabez
Sun Mar 20 08:41:54 CST 2005


> As the MVP for Messenger for the past four years, I've seen "leaked" beta
> versions of
> Messenger for years and I'm not going to pretend they don't exist when a
> simple Google search will bring them up from -legitimate- download sites.
> You can learn quite a lot and gain valuable feedback this way instead of
> burying ones head in the sand.


If this is the case, do you think users should download the beta Longhorn
since they can learn a lot through it?

Actually, being in a beta, it is about not revealing any information about
that new beta that you are testing. Then do you think that I can just ask
users to search around some new beta builds (where I'm in) and ask them to
download it from legitimate sites?

Leaked beta versions are always available (esp bigger betas). But at least
we should conceal this fact from new users and let them learn when the time
is right.

From the Beta License Agreements copied from MS Beta site:

"The Microsoft License Agreement for Beta Software (MLAB) is no longer
required for beta testing. Terms and conditions for participating in
Microsoft beta programs will be included within the product software, beta
kit or on the download page. Agreeing to these terms is your acknowledgement
that you will not disclose any information about a product including, but
not limited to; the product, beta newsgroup content, Web site documents and
other content, or the content of any beta-related e-mail to persons not
covered by the agreement. Failure to abide by these terms could result in
removal of you and your company from Microsoft beta programs. "



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by LARISA

LARISA
Sun Mar 20 12:51:48 CST 2005

HI JOnathan, I am glad to hear this, because you told me
if I HAVE ROUTER audio will not work,but as this man said
IT WORKS NOW ANYWAY with or without "UPNP" or ect.../My
brother download MSNGR 7.0604 like I have and now FINALY WE
CAN USE "VIDEO CONVERSATION" without fixing router?DID
MSNGR ADD SOMETHING NEW TO TO BETA MAYBE?
>-----Original Message-----
>Greetings Hans,
>
>Actually yes, with the latest builds of 7 being used, yes,
it should work through NATs even
>without UPnP enabled hardware.
>____________________________________________
>Jonathan Kay
>Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
>Associate Expert
>http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan
Kay.
>You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
>
>"me" <noonall_fake@hotmailfake.com> wrote in message
>news:d1gvm2$svm$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
>> Jonathan,
>>
>> I always read you answers here when having troubles with
messenger. Often this makes things
>> clearer to me.
>>
>> Now, there is a problem in a Dutch messenger newsgroup
in which it is said that the
>> problems with "no audio" with webcams are solved (even
behind NAT and with ALL routers,
>> including non UPnP routers) IF both parties use MSN7.
>>
>> Is this correct?
>>
>> mvg,
>> Hans
>> noonallREMOVETHIS@hotmailREMOVETHIS.com
>>
>
>
>.
>

Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Jonathan

Jonathan
Sun Mar 20 14:14:46 CST 2005

"Jabez Gan" <mingteikg@blizNOSPAMhosting.com> wrote in message
> If this is the case, do you think users should download the beta Longhorn since they can
> learn a lot through it?
Longhorn isn't in beta, the only stuff out, leaked or otherwise is from last year. The
upcoming beta in the next few months and the build coming out at WinHEC is completely
different. That said, assuming you don't need a production PC that -must- be completely
operational, yes, you can learn a lot and those adventurous types should give it a go and
post their opinions on their own or someone elses blog. However, changing your OS is a
different story than installing an instant messenger client, so I really don't see how this
applies.

> Actually, being in a beta, it is about not revealing any information about that new beta
> that you are testing.
Hardly, Microsoft doesn't make anyone sign actual NDAs anymore for their public betas and for
good reason; the press reports about it regardless. Compared to the betas of laterday, the
number of actual builds put into beta process has diminished for this very reason. I'm not
sure what agreements you've signed, but in mine, if something is public domain, then one can
discuss it. Mess.be has all the information about the latest builds, so therefore it's gone
public and not under NDA. And again, this is Messenger we're talking about, not some super
secret project from the depths of Redmond.

> Then do you think that I can just ask users to search around some new beta builds (where
> I'm in) and ask them to download it from legitimate sites?
I simply said the latest builds would have better audio support and that such newer builds
were available on a simple Google search. No one's asking anyone to do anything.

> Leaked beta versions are always available (esp bigger betas). But at least we should
> conceal this fact from new users and let them learn when the time is right.
The OP said the following, "I always read you answers here when having troubles with
messenger. Often this makes things clearer to me." So both the OP and Wouter have been here
before, so they're hardly "new users". I for one, refuse to "conceal" information (or in
your case what might be considered "dumbing down") that isn't under NDA simply because the
user is "new". Nor am I going to pretend that one can't grab it in one quick Google search.
I like to maintain professionalism and remain a trusted source of information and by
"concealing" information in this manner isn't the way to maintain that.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.



Re: to Jonathan from Holland by Jonathan

Jonathan
Sun Mar 20 19:04:34 CST 2005

Hi,

As I said, the newer 7 builds do have new support, so yes!
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.

"LARISA" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1c3c01c52d7d$deee7aa0$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> HI JOnathan, I am glad to hear this, because you told me
> if I HAVE ROUTER audio will not work,but as this man said
> IT WORKS NOW ANYWAY with or without "UPNP" or ect.../My
> brother download MSNGR 7.0604 like I have and now FINALY WE
> CAN USE "VIDEO CONVERSATION" without fixing router?DID
> MSNGR ADD SOMETHING NEW TO TO BETA MAYBE?
>>-----Original Message-----
>>Greetings Hans,
>>
>>Actually yes, with the latest builds of 7 being used, yes,
> it should work through NATs even
>>without UPnP enabled hardware.
>>____________________________________________
>>Jonathan Kay
>>Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
>>Associate Expert
>>http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>>Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>>All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2005 Jonathan
> Kay.
>>You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
>>
>>"me" <noonall_fake@hotmailfake.com> wrote in message
>>news:d1gvm2$svm$1@news6.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
>>> Jonathan,
>>>
>>> I always read you answers here when having troubles with
> messenger. Often this makes things
>>> clearer to me.
>>>
>>> Now, there is a problem in a Dutch messenger newsgroup
> in which it is said that the
>>> problems with "no audio" with webcams are solved (even
> behind NAT and with ALL routers,
>>> including non UPnP routers) IF both parties use MSN7.
>>>
>>> Is this correct?
>>>
>>> mvg,
>>> Hans
>>> noonallREMOVETHIS@hotmailREMOVETHIS.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>.
>>