I am loosing the will to cert.

With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will to do
anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope. I
feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.

I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't cut it
in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good technical
IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question during
interview.

Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves which
makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would say for
every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
fraudulent one.

People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely help
get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no certs.

I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a year
almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
material to pass the exams.

Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade my
cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be just
downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the above.

This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to go from
joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop these exam
answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change the exam
format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in part at
least.

Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may take a
while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just in
time for the win 2000 exams to expire.

You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you could
have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not be able
to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
bashing away at it until they got a pass.

What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.

Simon
Wed Oct 29 06:28:27 CST 2003


>
> What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
> braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
>

They did a pretty good job of shutting Napster down when they put their mind
to it. And CompTIA got a braindump site shut down recently as well, so it
can be done.

Rowdy
Wed Oct 29 09:48:00 CST 2003

first of all. an mcse is a mcse. a job is a job. don't confuse the 2. as
you say in your post, you are one above a guy "similar to yourself" who has
"no mcse cert". but in the real world, all the same rules apply with or
without an mcse cert.

office politics. professionalism. how well you can sell yourself. how well
you bullshit. who you know. who you suck up to. blah..blah..blah.... imho,
a guy who can do all these really well and has "no mcse" can probably beat
you out of a job. so start selling yourself!

re: w2k3 certification. you already did 7 exams. might as well the the 2 to
upgrade your cert, if you have the time & money.

RY

billyw
Wed Oct 29 10:08:18 CST 2003

i honestly dont think ms want to stop the testkings of this world.
they want to ensure that there is a wealth of percieved experience out there
to service their products.
making sure it's the defacto standard

"Simon Geary" <simon_geary@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OwHcpghnDHA.3612@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
> >
> > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
> > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
> >
>
> They did a pretty good job of shutting Napster down when they put their
mind
> to it. And CompTIA got a braindump site shut down recently as well, so it
> can be done.
>
>

Consultant
Wed Oct 29 10:11:23 CST 2003

you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will be
exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of the
main reasons the mcngp was formed.


"pastypies" <pastypies@bum.mil> wrote in message
news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will to
do
> anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope. I
> feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
>
> I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't cut
it
> in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
> interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good technical
> IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question during
> interview.
>
> Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves which
> makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would say
for
> every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
> fraudulent one.
>
> People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely help
> get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no certs.
>
> I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a year
> almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
> material to pass the exams.
>
> Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade my
> cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be just
> downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the above.
>
> This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to go
from
> joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop these
exam
> answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change the
exam
> format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in part at
> least.
>
> Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may take a
> while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just in
> time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
>
> You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you could
> have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not be
able
> to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
> bashing away at it until they got a pass.
>
> What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
> braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
>
>

Tron2003
Wed Oct 29 12:44:39 CST 2003

If not happy with MCSE exams why not focus on Cisco or Red Hat
certification. You will find the challenge there that you feel Microsoft
comes up short on.


"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ou1tJcjnDHA.3316@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will be
> exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of the
> main reasons the mcngp was formed.
>
>
> "pastypies" <pastypies@bum.mil> wrote in message
> news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will to
> do
> > anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope. I
> > feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
> >
> > I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't
cut
> it
> > in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
> > interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good
technical
> > IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question
during
> > interview.
> >
> > Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves
which
> > makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would say
> for
> > every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
> > fraudulent one.
> >
> > People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely
help
> > get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no certs.
> >
> > I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a
year
> > almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
> > material to pass the exams.
> >
> > Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade
my
> > cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be
just
> > downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the
above.
> >
> > This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to go
> from
> > joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop these
> exam
> > answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change the
> exam
> > format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in part
at
> > least.
> >
> > Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may take
a
> > while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just in
> > time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
> >
> > You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you could
> > have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not be
> able
> > to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
> > bashing away at it until they got a pass.
> >
> > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
> > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
> >
> >
>
>

Consultant
Wed Oct 29 13:28:00 CST 2003

absolutely, i agree

"Tron2003" <shutup@shutup.com> wrote in message
news:Oa4kwyknDHA.3320@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> If not happy with MCSE exams why not focus on Cisco or Red Hat
> certification. You will find the challenge there that you feel Microsoft
> comes up short on.
>
>
> "Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Ou1tJcjnDHA.3316@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will
be
> > exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of
the
> > main reasons the mcngp was formed.
> >
> >
> > "pastypies" <pastypies@bum.mil> wrote in message
> > news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > > With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will
to
> > do
> > > anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope.
I
> > > feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
> > >
> > > I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't
> cut
> > it
> > > in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
> > > interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good
> technical
> > > IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question
> during
> > > interview.
> > >
> > > Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves
> which
> > > makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would
say
> > for
> > > every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
> > > fraudulent one.
> > >
> > > People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely
> help
> > > get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no
certs.
> > >
> > > I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a
> year
> > > almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
> > > material to pass the exams.
> > >
> > > Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade
> my
> > > cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be
> just
> > > downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the
> above.
> > >
> > > This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to
go
> > from
> > > joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop
these
> > exam
> > > answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change
the
> > exam
> > > format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in
part
> at
> > > least.
> > >
> > > Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may
take
> a
> > > while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just
in
> > > time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
> > >
> > > You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you
could
> > > have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not
be
> > able
> > > to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
> > > bashing away at it until they got a pass.
> > >
> > > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping
the
> > > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

pastypies
Wed Oct 29 15:32:25 CST 2003

Tou-shay fellas, I asked for that. I have been pursuing the Cisco track for
this reason. That said, just because you can be a MS engineer doesn't mean
you can cut it as a Cisco engineer, time will tell I suppose.

It seems changing the MS exam format obviously cuts a bit to close to the
bone for most people, you ether get a slating or just shouted down when it's
mentioned. Obviously people are happy with the way things are, fair enough
then.

"Tron2003" <shutup@shutup.com> wrote in message
news:Oa4kwyknDHA.3320@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> If not happy with MCSE exams why not focus on Cisco or Red Hat
> certification. You will find the challenge there that you feel Microsoft
> comes up short on.
>
>
> "Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Ou1tJcjnDHA.3316@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will
be
> > exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of
the
> > main reasons the mcngp was formed.
> >
> >
> > "pastypies" <pastypies@bum.mil> wrote in message
> > news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > > With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will
to
> > do
> > > anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope.
I
> > > feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
> > >
> > > I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't
> cut
> > it
> > > in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
> > > interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good
> technical
> > > IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question
> during
> > > interview.
> > >
> > > Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves
> which
> > > makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would
say
> > for
> > > every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
> > > fraudulent one.
> > >
> > > People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely
> help
> > > get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no
certs.
> > >
> > > I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a
> year
> > > almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
> > > material to pass the exams.
> > >
> > > Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade
> my
> > > cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be
> just
> > > downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the
> above.
> > >
> > > This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to
go
> > from
> > > joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop
these
> > exam
> > > answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change
the
> > exam
> > > format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in
part
> at
> > > least.
> > >
> > > Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may
take
> a
> > > while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just
in
> > > time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
> > >
> > > You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you
could
> > > have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not
be
> > able
> > > to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
> > > bashing away at it until they got a pass.
> > >
> > > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping
the
> > > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Consultant
Wed Oct 29 15:54:44 CST 2003

no, we are not happy with the way things are. for these certs to be taken
seriously, there needs to be significant changes across the board.


"pastypies" <pastypies@bum.mil> wrote in message
news:3fa031f0$0$28122$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Tou-shay fellas, I asked for that. I have been pursuing the Cisco track
for
> this reason. That said, just because you can be a MS engineer doesn't mean
> you can cut it as a Cisco engineer, time will tell I suppose.
>
> It seems changing the MS exam format obviously cuts a bit to close to the
> bone for most people, you ether get a slating or just shouted down when
it's
> mentioned. Obviously people are happy with the way things are, fair enough
> then.
>
> "Tron2003" <shutup@shutup.com> wrote in message
> news:Oa4kwyknDHA.3320@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > If not happy with MCSE exams why not focus on Cisco or Red Hat
> > certification. You will find the challenge there that you feel
Microsoft
> > comes up short on.
> >
> >
> > "Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:Ou1tJcjnDHA.3316@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will
> be
> > > exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of
> the
> > > main reasons the mcngp was formed.
> > >
> > >
> > > "pastypies" <pastypies@bum.mil> wrote in message
> > > news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > > > With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the
will
> to
> > > do
> > > > anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no
hope.
> I
> > > > feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
> > > >
> > > > I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs
can't
> > cut
> > > it
> > > > in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
> > > > interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good
> > technical
> > > > IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question
> > during
> > > > interview.
> > > >
> > > > Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves
> > which
> > > > makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would
> say
> > > for
> > > > every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
> > > > fraudulent one.
> > > >
> > > > People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will
definitely
> > help
> > > > get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no
> certs.
> > > >
> > > > I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me
a
> > year
> > > > almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn
the
> > > > material to pass the exams.
> > > >
> > > > Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to
upgrade
> > my
> > > > cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be
> > just
> > > > downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the
> > above.
> > > >
> > > > This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to
> go
> > > from
> > > > joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop
> these
> > > exam
> > > > answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change
> the
> > > exam
> > > > format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in
> part
> > at
> > > > least.
> > > >
> > > > Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may
> take
> > a
> > > > while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years,
just
> in
> > > > time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
> > > >
> > > > You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you
> could
> > > > have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not
> be
> > > able
> > > > to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people
just
> > > > bashing away at it until they got a pass.
> > > >
> > > > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping
> the
> > > > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Karl
Wed Oct 29 18:19:55 CST 2003

Agreed. Unfortunately the reality is that M$ only sees the $. They are
a business after all. The certs are theirs and so a change would have
to orginate from there.

"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ex7DAcmnDHA.2140@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> no, we are not happy with the way things are. for these certs to be
taken
> seriously, there needs to be significant changes across the board.
>
>
> "pastypies" <pastypies@bum.mil> wrote in message
> news:3fa031f0$0$28122$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > Tou-shay fellas, I asked for that. I have been pursuing the Cisco
track
> for
> > this reason. That said, just because you can be a MS engineer
doesn't mean
> > you can cut it as a Cisco engineer, time will tell I suppose.
> >
> > It seems changing the MS exam format obviously cuts a bit to close
to the
> > bone for most people, you ether get a slating or just shouted down
when
> it's
> > mentioned. Obviously people are happy with the way things are,
fair enough
> > then.
> >