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This is not OT. This will never be OT. Those of you who don't like =
it.... feel free to drop me a line... we can discuss that face to face.

Bringing this up to remind everyone.... lest we ever forget.

http://www.gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html

--=20


Keyboard Cowboy


------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6E3E6.47986230
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is not OT.&nbsp; This will never =
be OT. Those=20
of you who don't like it....&nbsp; feel free to drop me a line... we can =
discuss=20
that face to face.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bringing this up to remind everyone.... =
lest we=20
ever forget.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html">http://www.gunstuf=
f.com/america-attacked.html</A></FONT></DIV><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Keyboard Cowboy</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6E3E6.47986230--

Re: We Will Not Forget by lowdes

lowdes
Fri Sep 29 17:34:36 CDT 2006

I don't get it?


"Keyboard Cowboy" <Cybersolutionz@nospam.msn.com> wrote in message
news:%23so5yAB5GHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
This is not OT. This will never be OT. Those of you who don't like it....
feel free to drop me a line... we can discuss that face to face.

Bringing this up to remind everyone.... lest we ever forget.

http://www.gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html

--


Keyboard Cowboy



Re: We Will Not Forget by BD

BD
Fri Sep 29 17:59:48 CDT 2006

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Amen Brotha, it already seems that TOO many people HAVE forgotten. Good =
to see there are some good people out there that haven't. This is a =
great reminder of just WHY our troops are where they are right now.

If you get any takers that don't like it, give me a call, I'll be there =
in less than 24 hours to help kick some anti-American @$$.

--=20
BD
MCNGP #51
-- MCNGP.com - You think you know IT!?
-- The new IT Certification Forums: www.CertGuard.com/forums/
"Keyboard Cowboy" <Cybersolutionz@nospam.msn.com> wrote in message =
news:%23so5yAB5GHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
This is not OT. This will never be OT. Those of you who don't like =
it.... feel free to drop me a line... we can discuss that face to face.

Bringing this up to remind everyone.... lest we ever forget.

http://www.gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html

--=20


Keyboard Cowboy


------=_NextPart_000_0223_01C6E3E0.4A604380
Content-Type: text/html;
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Amen Brotha, it already seems that TOO many =
people HAVE=20
forgotten. Good to see there are some good people out there that =
haven't.=20
&nbsp;This is a great reminder of just WHY our troops are where they are =
right=20
now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>If you get any takers that don't like =
it,&nbsp;give me a=20
call, I'll be there in less than 24 hours to help kick some =
anti-American=20
@$$.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><FONT face=3DArial></FONT><BR>-- =
<BR>BD<BR>MCNGP=20
#51<BR>-- MCNGP.com - You think you know IT!?<BR>-- The new IT =
Certification=20
Forums: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.CertGuard.com/forums/">www.CertGuard.com/forums/</A></=
DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Keyboard Cowboy" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:Cybersolutionz@nospam.msn.com">Cybersolutionz@nospam.msn.c=
om</A>&gt;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:%23so5yAB5GHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl">news:%23so5yAB5GHA.=
3604@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is not OT.&nbsp; This will never =
be OT.=20
Those of you who don't like it....&nbsp; feel free to drop me a =
line... we can=20
discuss that face to face.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bringing this up to remind =
everyone.... lest we=20
ever forget.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html">http://www.gunstuf=
f.com/america-attacked.html</A></FONT></DIV><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Keyboard Cowboy</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0223_01C6E3E0.4A604380--


Re: We Will Not Forget by BD

BD
Fri Sep 29 18:04:16 CDT 2006

>>Did you see what lowdes (low_desert@yahoo.com) graced us with in
0chTg.25576$QT.5307@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com?<<
> I don't get it?
>
lowdes, you're STILL a fsuking moron...you haven't changed one iota. Just for
that comment, if I EVER...and I mean EVER....get a chance to meet you in person,
you'd better remember this day, because I definitely will.

--
BD
MCNGP #51
-- MCNGP.com - You think you know IT!?
-- The new IT Certification Forums: www.CertGuard.com/forums/



Re: We Will Not Forget by Jtyc

Jtyc
Fri Sep 29 18:07:33 CDT 2006

> If you get any takers that don't like it, give me a call, I'll be there in
> less than 24 hours to help kick some anti-American @$$.


People who disagree with the way we are fighting this war are not
necessarily anti-American.



Re: We Will Not Forget by BD[MCNGP]>

BD[MCNGP]>
Fri Sep 29 20:33:44 CDT 2006

"Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> wrote in message
news:uC0N8vB5GHA.1492@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> > If you get any takers that don't like it, give me a call, I'll be there
in
> > less than 24 hours to help kick some anti-American @$$.
>
>
> People who disagree with the way we are fighting this war are not
> necessarily anti-American.
>
>
True, and I really didn't mean it the sense of not being an American (for
the most part), I was directing it toward those without the stereotypical
"American" attitude.

--
BD
MCNGP #51
-- You think you know IT?!
-- Check out the new forums at: http://www.CertGuard.com/forums/



Re: We Will Not Forget by Montreal

Montreal
Fri Sep 29 21:53:33 CDT 2006


> People who disagree with the way we are fighting this war are not
> necessarily anti-American

I second that... I supported the US going in, I supported getting Saddam, I
supported overthrowing the Taliban. That being said and as a veteran of
several mid-east skirmishes, I think the US is fighting this war the same
way I play jai-alai... I may have the equipment but I have no f*cking idea
what I am doing.

G-d Bless America and its citizens and its armed forces; Every soldier,
marine, sailor, and airman over there should be treated like a hero. The
man who sent them over there and whose orders they take however should be
tried for stupid.


Re: We Will Not Forget by Cerebrus

Cerebrus
Sat Sep 30 09:47:25 CDT 2006


BD [MCNGP] wrote:

> Amen Brotha, it already seems that TOO many people HAVE forgotten. Good to see there are some good people out there that haven't. This is a great reminder of just WHY our troops are where they are right now.
>
> If you get any takers that don't like it, give me a call, I'll be there in less than 24 hours to help kick some anti-American @$$.

No, I don't agree with that. I haven't seen the video in the OP's link
(a 7 meg video would take long to download), but it appears to be
related to the 9/11 tragedy. As everyone knows, 9/11 was perpetrated by
Al Qaeda not Saddam, and invading Iraq had nothing to do with getting
after Al Qaeda. It was just plain good business sense to invade Iraq.
It made Bush and his associates a lot richer, it hardly matters that it
resulted in the loss of the lives of 46,000 innocent Iraqi's and 2,700
brave American soldiers. It solved a lot of internal problems for Bush,
too. If Bush had really wanted to avenge 9/11, he would have sent those
troops into Pakistan, after bin Laden fled to Pak.

So, my point is : it's one thing that the perpetrators of 9/11 were
villains, and should be punished; and it's quite another thing to
believe that the Iraq war is a justified vengeance for that.

And lastly, Bush and his policies are the major reason why most of the
peoples of this world (not just Islamic countries, mind you) have
become "anti-American".


Re: We Will Not Forget by Cerebrus

Cerebrus
Sat Sep 30 09:48:40 CDT 2006


Montreal MCT wrote:

> ... The man who sent them over there and whose orders they take however should be
> tried for stupid.

If it were up to me, I'd try him for genocide. ;-)


Re: We Will Not Forget by Phil

Phil
Sat Sep 30 13:21:50 CDT 2006

Cerebrus wrote:

> BD [MCNGP] wrote:
>
>
>>Amen Brotha, it already seems that TOO many people HAVE forgotten. Good to see there are some good people out there that haven't. This is a great reminder of just WHY our troops are where they are right now.
>>
>>If you get any takers that don't like it, give me a call, I'll be there in less than 24 hours to help kick some anti-American @$$.
>
>
> No, I don't agree with that. I haven't seen the video in the OP's link
> (a 7 meg video would take long to download), but it appears to be
> related to the 9/11 tragedy. As everyone knows, 9/11 was perpetrated by
> Al Qaeda not Saddam, and invading Iraq had nothing to do with getting
> after Al Qaeda. It was just plain good business sense to invade Iraq.
> It made Bush and his associates a lot richer, it hardly matters that it
> resulted in the loss of the lives of 46,000 innocent Iraqi's and 2,700
> brave American soldiers. It solved a lot of internal problems for Bush,
> too. If Bush had really wanted to avenge 9/11, he would have sent those
> troops into Pakistan, after bin Laden fled to Pak.
>
> So, my point is : it's one thing that the perpetrators of 9/11 were
> villains, and should be punished; and it's quite another thing to
> believe that the Iraq war is a justified vengeance for that.
>
> And lastly, Bush and his policies are the major reason why most of the
> peoples of this world (not just Islamic countries, mind you) have
> become "anti-American".
>
I see this point of view all too commonly, it isn't right, anyone
believing it is misinformed and using faulty analysis. Until you have
lived in other countries and studied the cultures, languages and
attitudes of peoples, you will not understand. It is not the Bush
policies that have caused the hatred of Americans. The problem goes back
at least a generation and in some cases hundreds of years, e.g.

English crusades into the middle-East region
British Empire and Commonwealth
Colonialism [Spanish in Latin America]
Colonialism [French and Belgians in Africa]
World War II [North Africa/Europe/middle-East remapping]

The point being that we are addressing issues now regarding events that
occurred way back. We have no control over history but we must deal with
the consequences. This NG is for MCSE discussion so the chances are that
posters/readers are of above average intelligence. Think outside the
box, look at current problems in the world not based on your own values
and intellect, but at levels of IQ elsewhere. The highest average IQs
exist in Japan, USA and UK. The Japanese are a quiet, disciplined and
industrious people since WWII, and contribute enormously to inventions
and technology. Look at all the inventions in common use today in our
lives, it nearly all derives from UK & USA [electricity/telephone/etc]
historically. The whole world wants music, films and games, again, the
vast majority is USA & UK.

The whole world knows who are the smartest people and that, in my
opinion, is what drives the hatred - pure envy and jealousy. The problem
is that it is genetic so it can't be bought or made and no matter how
much money or power these people have, they will always have an
inferiority complex. Studies have shown a link between IQ and wealth. IQ
appears to be taboo in analysis probably due to sensitivity. In their
eyes, only the destruction of the 'smart genes' can bring about the
reduction of competition that they seek, removal of the genes from the
gene pool, hence islamic fanatic's references to same. They want to be
the smartest in the world.

An example of misinformation, go back 100 yrs when the French failed
with the Panama Canal. Panama became independent and the USA began the
canal. The Panamanians are not taught about the $10 million that was
paid for the rights to operate the Canal Zone as sovereign land. There
is a hatred of Americans for having 'occupied' Panamanian territory,
which is generations old. The USA has no control over what is or is not
taught in schools around the world. Generations grow up misinformed and
pass on the same to their children. Unjust, yes, but reality.

There is also a huge resentment in the world of social/welfare benefits
systems that exist in USA & UK. People in other countries don't have
that luxury therefore resent it and the hatred grows. Their is a common
belief that everybody in USA & UK is rich or has an easy life because
their respective goverments hand out money for free to their citizens.
There is no understnding that the money for welfare comes from taxes,
they don't have that concept. That is one of the attractions for
emigrating to USA & UK. People want the same 'easy' life, and blame
colonialism, poverty, race etc as an excuse.

Also common in people around the world is the perception that they are
'owed' a better life by USA & UK. That is why they don't want to pay for
anything or when they have to, they resent it. Copyright isn't
respected, products and designs and just copied and sold with no
contribution to the creator / designer. Theft of the design is somehow
part payment for the 'debt'.

Re: We Will Not Forget by Montreal

Montreal
Sat Sep 30 13:49:29 CDT 2006

I would not go that far, but I think that the people who voted him into
office TWICE should really be forced to wear signs a la Bill Engvall.

M

--
MDG, MCT
MCSA (2003), MCSA (2000), MCDST.
Certified Small Business Specialist
Visit my blog at www.mitpro.ca/Blogs/tabid/59/BlogID/2/Default.aspx


"Cerebrus" <zorg007@sify.com> wrote in message
news:1159627720.179587.76190@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Montreal MCT wrote:
>
>> ... The man who sent them over there and whose orders they take however
>> should be
>> tried for stupid.
>
> If it were up to me, I'd try him for genocide. ;-)
>


Re: We Will Not Forget by BD[MCNGP]>

BD[MCNGP]>
Sat Sep 30 15:56:56 CDT 2006

"Phil" <snowdonconsultants@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eivlD1L5GHA.1492@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

> I see this point of view all too commonly, it isn't right, anyone
> believing it is misinformed and using faulty analysis. Until you have
> lived in other countries and studied the cultures, languages and
> attitudes of peoples, you will not understand. It is not the Bush
> policies that have caused the hatred of Americans. The problem goes back
> at least a generation and in some cases hundreds of years, e.g.
>
> English crusades into the middle-East region
> British Empire and Commonwealth
> Colonialism [Spanish in Latin America]
> Colonialism [French and Belgians in Africa]
> World War II [North Africa/Europe/middle-East remapping]
>
> The point being that we are addressing issues now regarding events that
> occurred way back. We have no control over history but we must deal with
> the consequences. This NG is for MCSE discussion so the chances are that
> posters/readers are of above average intelligence. Think outside the
> box, look at current problems in the world not based on your own values
> and intellect, but at levels of IQ elsewhere. The highest average IQs
> exist in Japan, USA and UK. The Japanese are a quiet, disciplined and
> industrious people since WWII, and contribute enormously to inventions
> and technology. Look at all the inventions in common use today in our
> lives, it nearly all derives from UK & USA [electricity/telephone/etc]
> historically. The whole world wants music, films and games, again, the
> vast majority is USA & UK.
>
> The whole world knows who are the smartest people and that, in my
> opinion, is what drives the hatred - pure envy and jealousy. The problem
> is that it is genetic so it can't be bought or made and no matter how
> much money or power these people have, they will always have an
> inferiority complex. Studies have shown a link between IQ and wealth. IQ
> appears to be taboo in analysis probably due to sensitivity. In their
> eyes, only the destruction of the 'smart genes' can bring about the
> reduction of competition that they seek, removal of the genes from the
> gene pool, hence islamic fanatic's references to same. They want to be
> the smartest in the world.
>
> An example of misinformation, go back 100 yrs when the French failed
> with the Panama Canal. Panama became independent and the USA began the
> canal. The Panamanians are not taught about the $10 million that was
> paid for the rights to operate the Canal Zone as sovereign land. There
> is a hatred of Americans for having 'occupied' Panamanian territory,
> which is generations old. The USA has no control over what is or is not
> taught in schools around the world. Generations grow up misinformed and
> pass on the same to their children. Unjust, yes, but reality.
>
> There is also a huge resentment in the world of social/welfare benefits
> systems that exist in USA & UK. People in other countries don't have
> that luxury therefore resent it and the hatred grows. Their is a common
> belief that everybody in USA & UK is rich or has an easy life because
> their respective goverments hand out money for free to their citizens.
> There is no understnding that the money for welfare comes from taxes,
> they don't have that concept. That is one of the attractions for
> emigrating to USA & UK. People want the same 'easy' life, and blame
> colonialism, poverty, race etc as an excuse.
>
> Also common in people around the world is the perception that they are
> 'owed' a better life by USA & UK. That is why they don't want to pay for
> anything or when they have to, they resent it. Copyright isn't
> respected, products and designs and just copied and sold with no
> contribution to the creator / designer. Theft of the design is somehow
> part payment for the 'debt'.
>
Amazingly informative Phil, although I'm sure I had some of that knowledge
in the back of my mind somewhere, I hadn't put it into that perspective
before, thank you.

--
BD
MCNGP #51
-- You think you know IT?!
-- Check out the new forums at: http://www.CertGuard.com/forums/



Re: We Will Not Forget by LRM

LRM
Sat Sep 30 16:00:55 CDT 2006

"Phil" <snowdonconsultants@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eivlD1L5GHA.1492@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Cerebrus wrote:
>
>> BD [MCNGP] wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Amen Brotha, it already seems that TOO many people HAVE forgotten. Good
>>>to see there are some good people out there that haven't. This is a
>>>great reminder of just WHY our troops are where they are right now.
>>>
>>>If you get any takers that don't like it, give me a call, I'll be there
>>>in less than 24 hours to help kick some anti-American @$$.
>>
>>
>> No, I don't agree with that. I haven't seen the video in the OP's link
>> (a 7 meg video would take long to download), but it appears to be
>> related to the 9/11 tragedy. As everyone knows, 9/11 was perpetrated by
>> Al Qaeda not Saddam, and invading Iraq had nothing to do with getting
>> after Al Qaeda. It was just plain good business sense to invade Iraq.
>> It made Bush and his associates a lot richer, it hardly matters that it
>> resulted in the loss of the lives of 46,000 innocent Iraqi's and 2,700
>> brave American soldiers. It solved a lot of internal problems for Bush,
>> too. If Bush had really wanted to avenge 9/11, he would have sent those
>> troops into Pakistan, after bin Laden fled to Pak.
>>
>> So, my point is : it's one thing that the perpetrators of 9/11 were
>> villains, and should be punished; and it's quite another thing to
>> believe that the Iraq war is a justified vengeance for that.
>>
>> And lastly, Bush and his policies are the major reason why most of the
>> peoples of this world (not just Islamic countries, mind you) have
>> become "anti-American".
>>
> I see this point of view all too commonly, it isn't right, anyone
> believing it is misinformed and using faulty analysis. Until you have
> lived in other countries and studied the cultures, languages and attitudes
> of peoples, you will not understand.

You are assuming that the person you are directing your comment to hasn't.

<huge snippage of a bunchOcrap>

> The highest average IQs exist in Japan, USA and UK. The Japanese are a
> quiet, disciplined and industrious people since WWII, and contribute
> enormously to inventions and technology.

Here you need to explain to me why a test originally developed by a French
man to determine whether public school students needed extra help is a
useful measure of anything.

<additional snippage for the sake of brevity and us all>

waiting.....



Re: We Will Not Forget by lowdes

lowdes
Sat Sep 30 16:38:04 CDT 2006

I don't get it.


"BD [MCNGP]" <www.CertGuard.com/forums/> wrote in message
news:uPYRPvB5GHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>Did you see what lowdes (low_desert@yahoo.com) graced us with in
> 0chTg.25576$QT.5307@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com?<<
>> I don't get it?
>>
> lowdes, you're STILL a fsuking moron...you haven't changed one iota. Just
> for
> that comment, if I EVER...and I mean EVER....get a chance to meet you in
> person,
> you'd better remember this day, because I definitely will.
>
> --
> BD
> MCNGP #51
> -- MCNGP.com - You think you know IT!?
> -- The new IT Certification Forums: www.CertGuard.com/forums/
>
>



Re: We Will Not Forget by Thor

Thor
Sat Sep 30 17:40:39 CDT 2006

<snip value="unlikely" status="unread" />

>> The highest average IQs exist in Japan, USA and UK. The Japanese are a
>> quiet, disciplined and industrious people since WWII, and contribute
>> enormously to inventions and technology.
>
> Here you need to explain to me why a test originally developed by a French
> man to determine whether public school students needed extra help is a
> useful measure of anything.
>

except for the fact that the guy was French (which is kind of cruel to say
in the US, I understand)
I totally agree
limiting consept
53


Re: We Will Not Forget by LRM

LRM
Sat Sep 30 18:07:57 CDT 2006

"Thor" <gorm.mail@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:727B2DEC-9459-4A93-A354-9B1BD06D67A8@microsoft.com...
> <snip value="unlikely" status="unread" />
>
>>> The highest average IQs exist in Japan, USA and UK. The Japanese are a
>>> quiet, disciplined and industrious people since WWII, and contribute
>>> enormously to inventions and technology.
>>
>> Here you need to explain to me why a test originally developed by a
>> French man to determine whether public school students needed extra help
>> is a useful measure of anything.
>>
>
> except for the fact that the guy was French (which is kind of cruel to say
> in the US, I understand)
> I totally agree
> limiting consept
> 53
The intent behind disclosing his heritage had only to do with the notion
that his test would be aimed at individuals with a decidedly European
background, thus negating its validity as a worldwide measure of
intelligence.



Re: We Will Not Forget by BD[MCNGP]>

BD[MCNGP]>
Sat Sep 30 19:04:37 CDT 2006

"Cerebrus" <zorg007@sify.com> wrote in message
news:1159627645.775439.278810@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> No, I don't agree with that. I haven't seen the video in the OP's link
> (a 7 meg video would take long to download), but it appears to be
> related to the 9/11 tragedy. As everyone knows, 9/11 was perpetrated by
> Al Qaeda not Saddam, and invading Iraq had nothing to do with getting
> after Al Qaeda. It was just plain good business sense to invade Iraq.
> It made Bush and his associates a lot richer, it hardly matters that it
> resulted in the loss of the lives of 46,000 innocent Iraqi's and 2,700
> brave American soldiers. It solved a lot of internal problems for Bush,
> too. If Bush had really wanted to avenge 9/11, he would have sent those
> troops into Pakistan, after bin Laden fled to Pak.

>
Sorry Cerebrus, I've also got to disagree with what you're saying (although
I do understand your point). You are correct that 9/11 was perpetrated by Al
Qaeda, but the reason we also went after Saddam was in no relation to the
9/11 attacks. The Saddam Regime goes WAY back to the late 1960s when Hussein
assumed a few lead roles in the Ba'ath Party and Iraqi Government. I think
we are all aware of what the Ba'ath Party accomplished, but what many people
don't remember is the regime that Hussein built. Primarily throughout the
1980s, Hussein's regime killed (or caused the death of) millions of
'innocent' people.

You are correct in stating "...invading Iraq had nothing to do with getting
after Al Qaeda..." but not necessarily correct when you said "It was just
plain good business sense to invade Iraq." I highly doubt that Bush
re-visited what has been in act for decades just because he thought it was
"good business sense" to encourage the killing of innocent people just to
protect US Assets, but I do think it was necessary in order to prevent the
killing of countless other innocent lives.

Everyone seems to think that we *just* started looking for Hussein in
2001...not so...Hussein has been sought after by the United States since the
1990s. It just so happened that we caught Saddam before Bin Laden (who we
started looking for a decade later). There are still many troups in
Pakistan, and in Afghanistan, that are looking for Bin Laden. But because
the areas that are being searched are basically unpopulated (or at least not
highly populated....a.k.a. hills, mountains, and caves) the media isn't
reporting it. What the media is (historically) interested in is reporting
information that will draw attention to their network. Nobody cares about a
bunch of soldiers hiking through dirt and sand if there is no gunfire and
death.

> So, my point is : it's one thing that the perpetrators of 9/11 were
> villains, and should be punished; and it's quite another thing to
> believe that the Iraq war is a justified vengeance for that.
>
I'm guessing that the only people that believe the Iraq war is a justified
vengeance for 9/11 are the people that listen to "the Drive-By media"[1].
All the media tries to do is report information (fabricated or not) that
will draw attention to their network. People that don't corroborate that
information with at least two other (non-biased) sources are missing out on
the real stories. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 other than there being a
declaration on the "War on Terror". He was, by definition, a Terrorist and
he dragged his people right into the middle of everything. Saddam Hussein is
nothing but a coward that opted to hide in populated areas because he
expected those 'innocent' people to risk their lives for him.

> And lastly, Bush and his policies are the major reason why most of the
> peoples of this world (not just Islamic countries, mind you) have
> become "anti-American".
>
That's because almost everything they hear about "Bush's Policies" comes
from the drive-by media. They watch (primarily) one source, or if they do
watch more than one source, the views are generally all biased in the same
direction. Very few people actually care to take in and comprehend the views
from both sides. When something of this nature pops up in the media, the
best thing to do is to not just immediately believe it, but to try to prove
to yourself that it is incorrect....if you have expelled all resources and
still cannot prove to yourself that it is incorrect, then at least the
chances that your initial thought of it being correct are better.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/mideast/

[1] Drive-By Media: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1614041/posts
--
BD
MCNGP #51
-- You think you know IT?!
-- Check out the new forums at: http://www.CertGuard.com/forums/



Re: We Will Not Forget by BD[MCNGP]>

BD[MCNGP]>
Sat Sep 30 19:08:48 CDT 2006

"lowdes" <low_desert@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0tBTg.1893$3E2.1268@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> I don't get it.
>

And you never will.

--
BD
MCNGP #51
-- You think you know IT?!
-- Check out the new forums at: http://www.CertGuard.com/forums/



Re: We Will Not Forget by Cerebrus

Cerebrus
Sun Oct 01 03:27:51 CDT 2006


Phil wrote:

> Nonsensical crap snipped.
> More utter hogwash washed away.

Well, I've seen and read a lot of analyses of the current situation in
the past few years, but yours definitely takes the cake for being the
most ludicrous, and the most senseless. By building upon completely
baseless assumptions, you build a fictitious castle of illusions for
yourself, and come to a conclusion which contradicts your original
assumption.

While the Muslim-Christian conflict did start at the time of the
crusades, it would be very foolish to blame the crusades as the root of
9/11 and the Iraq war, which are what my post was about. The roots of
9/11 were laid during the 70's and 80's in Afghanistan, when the CIA
trained, paid and armed militias to balance the Soviet occupation.

I did not insinuate that Bush's policies have "caused" the world to
hate Americans. His policies have widened the gap between ideologies in
this world, the whole world now feels insecure, and the UN has now
*completely* lost its relevance, because whenever Bush decides he wants
to invade a country, he can do so, bypassing the UN. A very large
percentage of people in Europe and Asia also now feel that America has
alienated itself not just from the Islamic world, but from the rest of
the countries as well, by it's policy of hegemony. This mindset has
come about only because of American foreign policy, for which I
squarely blame George W. The people who were neutral towards the US,
now have changed sides, simply because they too feel threatened.

Saying that all the wars going on at present, and all the terrorist
activities are only going on because the rest of the world is jealous
of the Intellectual prowess of the Americans (and the british), is the
finest example of self-delusion I've seen yet. And No, I don't believe
that the American's are the most intelligent. I have always held the
firm belief that the Germans and Scandinavians are most intellectually
superior people on this planet. (This is not to say that there are not
brilliant people in other countries, I'm talking averages.) I don't see
them being attacked.
Phil, If you are American, then I think the Americans should throw you
out of the country, because you're causing the American average IQ
level to fall by many points. ;-)

Nor was America attacked because their culture was so attractive to
people of other countries. That simply does not stand to logic.
American culture is very attractive to countries which have
historically been shackled by their own governments or religious
beliefs, but being attracted to a culture cannot be a reason to try to
destroy it. It could be a reason to emulate it, however.

Most of the Americans are now realizing now that they have been misled
by their own government. While all governments of the world have lied
to their people and fed them misinformation at some point in time, in
the past few years this has become much more obvious to the American
public, because the Bush administration is inept even at hiding secrets
and the lies they tell. They went to Iraq on a flimsy quest for WMD's,
telling the American people that it had to be done, or Saddam would
attack America with lethal weapons. It was later proven that there was
no such thing. This is just one example.

Bush knew very well during his re-election that only one thing could
save him. He was well aware that the american people value their
security above everything else, and therefore his campaign was all
about "Vote for me... or else Osama will get ya !" Thus all issues of
governance, of incompetence, of lies, were relegated to the background.
As Kerry himself admitted later on, Bush's tactic of scaring the
American public worked. What Americans did not realize is that the
biggest threat to American national security is George W. Bush himself.
As the saying goes, "A wise enemy is better than a foolish friend".

Why is a section of the American public still supporting the war ?
Well, for one, No one likes to admit that they've been made a fool of
by the persons they trust the most. It's much easier to continue to
look the other way, and pretend all is well. Secondly, many people
blindly believe what the media tells them. Thirdly, there has taken
root an impression in the public, that it is unpatriotic and
un-American to not agree with whatever your government does, whether
right or wrong. In my opinion this mindset is the biggest threat to the
characteristic I most admire about Americans - Their free thought.

So, my point is : Let us not stifle the voices of dissent. Doing so
would take us back the Medieval ages when the Church branded anyone who
spoke against them as being Anti-God, and burned them at the stake.

----------
Cerebrus.
MCNGP #LIV


Re: We Will Not Forget by Cerebrus

Cerebrus
Sun Oct 01 04:03:16 CDT 2006

BD,

I completely agree with you that a person should not base his analysis
on any one source of information, because news can be biased. Very few
governments in this world tell their citizens the whole naked truth.

I do not contest the fact that Saddam was a villain and a dictator and
oppressed countless people of his country. But I do vigorously question
Bush's self-appointment as world policeman to free the "poor people of
Iraq". Who gives him the right to decide who should rule Iraq ? And it
would be a very big exaggeration to believe that he decided to send
forces into Iraq purely because of his altruistic nature.

----------
Cere "It's all about oil, I tells ya" brus.
MCNGP #LIV

Links to check out :

American Hegemony - A Timeline <http://www.flagrancy.net/timeline.html>

Books:

1. Noam Chomsky - Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global
Dominance.
2. Scott Ritter - Iraq Confidential : The Untold Story of the
Intelligence Conspiracy to Undermine the UN and Overthrow Saddam
Hussein.
3. Jimmy Carter - Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis.


Re: We Will Not Forget by Thor

Thor
Sun Oct 01 03:17:12 CDT 2006

"LRM" <Fskspam@friedspam.com> wrote in message
news:%23cpvGVO5GHA.508@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "Thor" <gorm.mail@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:727B2DEC-9459-4A93-A354-9B1BD06D67A8@microsoft.com...
>> <snip value="unlikely" status="unread" />
>>
>>>> The highest average IQs exist in Japan, USA and UK. The Japanese are a
>>>> quiet, disciplined and industrious people since WWII, and contribute
>>>> enormously to inventions and technology.
>>>
>>> Here you need to explain to me why a test originally developed by a
>>> French man to determine whether public school students needed extra help
>>> is a useful measure of anything.
>>>
>>
>> except for the fact that the guy was French (which is kind of cruel to
>> say in the US, I understand)
>> I totally agree
>> limiting consept
>> 53
> The intent behind disclosing his heritage had only to do with the notion
> that his test would be aimed at individuals with a decidedly European
> background, thus negating its validity as a worldwide measure of
> intelligence.
>

"We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course,
powerful muscles, but no personality."
Albert Einstein

"Systems intelligence" looks much more promissing to me

IQ
I trust that the modern "culture independent" IQ tests are just as bad as
the "culture dependent" tests for measuring understanding:
- they can't measure empathy (I think communication is difficult without
understanding the target)
- the tasks in the tests are interesting to a small subset (compulsive?), I
almost always find the next number, I'm not a math genius, just like numbers
- mastering the basics to the extreme (to find obscure patterns in figures
seems just like an over-built muscle to me)
- they hardly measure learning ability at all (!); on the really difficult
questions you might need to use lessons leaned in earlier questions, thats
all: you can be at the bottom 2% when it comes to learning ability and on
the top 2% when it comes to IQ (don't ask me how I know)

I think the main reason why IQ tests are so successful is because of the
self fulfilling prophecy of the result, if you think you are smart, you will
work harder with your mind on any one problem, over time this will give
extreme results.

Also, IQ tests are great at measuring chess-playing talent and ability to do
other specialized tasks, but to mix them into politics and all other kind of
stuff makes no sense to me. If the American president has a high or low IQ
isn't that important to me. The ability to lead seems more important.

53


Re: We Will Not Forget by Phil

Phil
Sun Oct 01 10:18:06 CDT 2006

LRM wrote:

> "Phil" <snowdonconsultants@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:eivlD1L5GHA.1492@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
>>Cerebrus wrote:
>>
>>
>>>BD [MCNGP] wrote:
>>>
[snip]
>>
>>I see this point of view all too commonly, it isn't right, anyone
>>believing it is misinformed and using faulty analysis. Until you have
>>lived in other countries and studied the cultures, languages and attitudes
>>of peoples, you will not understand.
>
> You are assuming that the person you are directing your comment to hasn't.
Yes. Langauge/culture example;
If you want to know the salary of an American, you would ask "how much
do you make?" Make being the operative word.
If you want the same information from a Brit, the phrase is "how much do
you earn?" Earn being the operative word.
In spanish the verb to make and to earn are the same, "ganar" i.e. in
normal conversation, street use if you will. When you ask about a
salary, "cuanto ganas?"
Ganar also means to win. If a person wins the lottery they use the same
verb, thus there appears to be no concept of making or earning for the
reward of salary.
>
> <huge snippage of a bunchOcrap>
>
>>The highest average IQs exist in Japan, USA and UK. The Japanese are a
>>quiet, disciplined and industrious people since WWII, and contribute
>>enormously to inventions and technology.
>
>
> Here you need to explain to me why a test originally developed by a French
> man to determine whether public school students needed extra help is a
> useful measure of anything.
>
> <additional snippage for the sake of brevity and us all>
>
> waiting.....
>
The IQ test has pros and cons, is accepted by some and not others, some
corporations use them and others don't. You are missing the point, I was
referring to the world perception of where smart is. Why does the term
nerd exist? Why do studious looking kids get picked on at school? I am
saying that there is an anti-intellect behavior in the mainstream
regardless of how it is measured, IQ test or otherwise. The perception
will cause the response, rightly or wrongly. A person not conforming to
fashionabe clothes meets with peer pressure, the requirement of the
group is for the individual to conform to the group. Anything different
is not accepted in the group being perceived as a threat or undesirable
of some sort.

Re: We Will Not Forget by LRM

LRM
Sun Oct 01 11:13:49 CDT 2006

"Thor" <gorm.mail@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5C973290-67B9-405F-878B-4CEE26D209BA@microsoft.com...
> "LRM" <Fskspam@friedspam.com> wrote in message
> news:%23cpvGVO5GHA.508@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> "Thor" <gorm.mail@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:727B2DEC-9459-4A93-A354-9B1BD06D67A8@microsoft.com...
>>> <snip value="unlikely" status="unread" />
>>>
>>>>> The highest average IQs exist in Japan, USA and UK. The Japanese are a
>>>>> quiet, disciplined and industrious people since WWII, and contribute
>>>>> enormously to inventions and technology.
>>>>
>>>> Here you need to explain to me why a test originally developed by a
>>>> French man to determine whether public school students needed extra
>>>> help is a useful measure of anything.
>>>>
>>>
>>> except for the fact that the guy was French (which is kind of cruel to
>>> say in the US, I understand)
>>> I totally agree
>>> limiting consept
>>> 53
>> The intent behind disclosing his heritage had only to do with the notion
>> that his test would be aimed at individuals with a decidedly European
>> background, thus negating its validity as a worldwide measure of
>> intelligence.
>>
>
> "We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course,
> powerful muscles, but no personality."
> Albert Einstein
>
> "Systems intelligence" looks much more promissing to me
>
> IQ
> I trust that the modern "culture independent" IQ tests are just as bad as
> the "culture dependent" tests for measuring understanding:
> - they can't measure empathy (I think communication is difficult without
> understanding the target)
> - the tasks in the tests are interesting to a small subset (compulsive?),
> I almost always find the next number, I'm not a math genius, just like
> numbers
> - mastering the basics to the extreme (to find obscure patterns in figures
> seems just like an over-built muscle to me)
> - they hardly measure learning ability at all (!); on the really difficult
> questions you might need to use lessons leaned in earlier questions, thats
> all: you can be at the bottom 2% when it comes to learning ability and on
> the top 2% when it comes to IQ (don't ask me how I know)
>
> I think the main reason why IQ tests are so successful is because of the
> self fulfilling prophecy of the result, if you think you are smart, you
> will work harder with your mind on any one problem, over time this will
> give extreme results.
>
> Also, IQ tests are great at measuring chess-playing talent and ability to
> do other specialized tasks, but to mix them into politics and all other
> kind of stuff makes no sense to me. If the American president has a high
> or low IQ isn't that important to me. The ability to lead seems more
> important.
>

Well said this.



Re: We Will Not Forget by LRM

LRM
Sun Oct 01 11:40:47 CDT 2006

"Cerebrus" <zorg007@sify.com> wrote in message
news:1159693396.057499.154980@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> BD,
>
> I completely agree with you that a person should not base his analysis
> on any one source of information, because news can be biased. Very few
> governments in this world tell their citizens the whole naked truth.
>
> I do not contest the fact that Saddam was a villain and a dictator and
> oppressed countless people of his country. But I do vigorously question
> Bush's self-appointment as world policeman to free the "poor people of
> Iraq". Who gives him the right to decide who should rule Iraq ? And it
> would be a very big exaggeration to believe that he decided to send
> forces into Iraq purely because of his altruistic nature.
>
> ----------
> Cere "It's all about oil, I tells ya" brus.
> MCNGP #LIV
>
> Links to check out :
>
> American Hegemony - A Timeline <http://www.flagrancy.net/timeline.html>
>
> Books:
>
> 1. Noam Chomsky - Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global
> Dominance.
> 2. Scott Ritter - Iraq Confidential : The Untold Story of the
> Intelligence Conspiracy to Undermine the UN and Overthrow Saddam
> Hussein.
> 3. Jimmy Carter - Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis.
>
All I can say is Halliburton. Current or former servicemembers who aren't
outraged that the service they provided toward America's freedom was putting
money in the pockets of big business might want to do a little research.
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/deyoung.html
http://www.faireconomy.org/press/2006/ee06_ceos_pocket_the_spoils_preview.html




Re: We Will Not Forget by Phil

Phil
Sun Oct 01 11:55:58 CDT 2006

Cerebrus wrote:
[snip]
> While the Muslim-Christian conflict did start at the time of the
> crusades, it would be very foolish to blame the crusades as the root of
> 9/11 and the Iraq war, which are what my post was about. The roots of
> 9/11 were laid during the 70's and 80's in Afghanistan, when the CIA
> trained, paid and armed militias to balance the Soviet occupation.
>
> I did not insinuate that Bush's policies have "caused" the world to
> hate Americans. His policies have widened the gap between ideologies in
> this world, the whole world now feels insecure, and the UN has now
> *completely* lost its relevance, because whenever Bush decides he wants
> to invade a country, he can do so, bypassing the UN. A very large
> percentage of people in Europe and Asia also now feel that America has
> alienated itself not just from the Islamic world, but from the rest of
> the countries as well, by it's policy of hegemony. This mindset has
> come about only because of American foreign policy, for which I
> squarely blame George W. The people who were neutral towards the US,
> now have changed sides, simply because they too feel threatened.
I disagree that it is only because of USA foreign policy, and blaming G
W Bush is placing the cause within the time frame of the last few years
which appears to partly contradict your comments above. The europeans
have such a large islamic contingent that they are afraid to get
involved for fear of reprisals. Last week a famous opera was cancelled
in Germany because of some scenes it contained that could be perceived
as anti-islamic.
>
> Saying that all the wars going on at present, and all the terrorist
> activities are only going on because the rest of the world is jealous
> of the Intellectual prowess of the Americans (and the british), is the
> finest example of self-delusion I've seen yet. And No, I don't believe
> that the American's are the most intelligent. I have always held the
> firm belief that the Germans and Scandinavians are most intellectually
> superior people on this planet. (This is not to say that there are not
> brilliant people in other countries, I'm talking averages.) I don't see
> them being attacked.
> Phil, If you are American, then I think the Americans should throw you
> out of the country, because you're causing the American average IQ
> level to fall by many points. ;-)
Does that mean that you believe in deporting those who fall under a
certain IQ threshold? Do you believe too that it should be a basis for
immigration policy? How intolerant of you ;-)
>
> Nor was America attacked because their culture was so attractive to
> people of other countries. That simply does not stand to logic.
> American culture is very attractive to countries which have
> historically been shackled by their own governments or religious
> beliefs, but being attracted to a culture cannot be a reason to try to
> destroy it. It could be a reason to emulate it, however.
As an actual/potential engineer involved in security and problem
solving, I'm saying that one should be open to all possibilities. Just
because one has never seen the problem in a certain way, and that it
doesn't accord with one's present logic, does not mean that one can or
should dismiss it. What if the attraction to a culture is to occupy and
control it? Why do we protect networks against trojans? Do hackers lock
their cars when they leave them? I've heard one argument that if you put
a computer/server online, it is in the public domain and therefore fair
game. Without protection it will be attacked. Does the attacker leave
his car unlocked with the keys in having parked it on the public
highway? People have very different ideas about what is public and
private property and many respect neither or apply one set of rules to
other people's property and a different set of rules to their own. There
is misinformation in the world about the USA and it is being passed on
from generation to generation by parents, schools and various
institutions for a variety of reasons and motives.
>
> Most of the Americans are now realizing now that they have been misled
> by their own government. While all governments of the world have lied
> to their people and fed them misinformation at some point in time, in
> the past few years this has become much more obvious to the American
> public, because the Bush administration is inept even at hiding secrets
> and the lies they tell. They went to Iraq on a flimsy quest for WMD's,
> telling the American people that it had to be done, or Saddam would
> attack America with lethal weapons. It was later proven that there was
> no such thing. This is just one example.
Obviously the likes of you and me are only able to base judgement on
available information, i.e. the media, so we probably don't have all the
facts and shouldn't reach a definitive judgement until such time as we
do have full information. As regards WMDs, I am allowing for the
possibility of their existence and that there was opportunity for items
to have been moved into another territory since the borders were not
100% secured at that time.
>
> Bush knew very well during his re-election that only one thing could
> save him. He was well aware that the american people value their
> security above everything else, and therefore his campaign was all
> about "Vote for me... or else Osama will get ya !" Thus all issues of
> governance, of incompetence, of lies, were relegated to the background.
> As Kerry himself admitted later on, Bush's tactic of scaring the
> American public worked. What Americans did not realize is that the
> biggest threat to American national security is George W. Bush himself.
> As the saying goes, "A wise enemy is better than a foolish friend".
>
> Why is a section of the American public still supporting the war ?
> Well, for one, No one likes to admit that they've been made a fool of
> by the persons they trust the most. It's much easier to continue to
> look the other way, and pretend all is well. Secondly, many people
> blindly believe what the media tells them. Thirdly, there has taken
> root an impression in the public, that it is unpatriotic and
> un-American to not agree with whatever your government does, whether
> right or wrong. In my opinion this mindset is the biggest threat to the
> characteristic I most admire about Americans - Their free thought.
Agreed, don't believe everything you see/hear in the media, ask yourself
why and look for motivation. Be tolerant of different views even if they
go against your own logic, we could each of us be wrong and maybe need
to modify our own views.
>
> So, my point is : Let us not stifle the voices of dissent. Doing so
> would take us back the Medieval ages when the Church branded anyone who
> spoke against them as being Anti-God, and burned them at the stake.
>
> ----------
> Cerebrus.
> MCNGP #LIV
>

Re: We Will Not Forget by BD[MCNGP]>

BD[MCNGP]>
Sun Oct 01 16:29:28 CDT 2006

"LRM" <Fskspam@friedspam.com> wrote in message
news:e0V6ahX5GHA.3592@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> All I can say is Halliburton. Current or former servicemembers who aren't
> outraged that the service they provided toward America's freedom was
putting
> money in the pockets of big business might want to do a little research.
> http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/deyoung.html
>
http://www.faireconomy.org/press/2006/ee06_ceos_pocket_the_spoils_preview.html
>
All I can say is that none of us are politicians, h3ll some of us can barely
keep a network of computers running, let alone an entire fsuking country.
Yet we still take it upon ourselves to critique the actions of something
that is, overall, WAY above our heads.

I, for one, am going to abstain myself from any further 'political'
conversations in this newsgroup because no matter what ANY of us say, there
is always going to be a contradiction somewhere along the lines that will
either p!ss you off, or p!ss me off. I don't need the additional stress in
my life right now, I've already got too much, and I know for a fact that at
other's in the group are suffering from similar forms of stress that are
also not needed.



Re: We Will Not Forget by lowdes

lowdes
Sun Oct 01 17:02:51 CDT 2006

What, I don't get it.

<BD[MCNGP]> wrote in message news:eZTUiCa5GHA.1200@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> "LRM" <Fskspam@friedspam.com> wrote in message
> news:e0V6ahX5GHA.3592@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>> All I can say is Halliburton. Current or former servicemembers who aren't
>> outraged that the service they provided toward America's freedom was
> putting
>> money in the pockets of big business might want to do a little research.
>> http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/deyoung.html
>>
> http://www.faireconomy.org/press/2006/ee06_ceos_pocket_the_spoils_preview.html
>>
> All I can say is that none of us are politicians, h3ll some of us can
> barely
> keep a network of computers running, let alone an entire fsuking country.
> Yet we still take it upon ourselves to critique the actions of something
> that is, overall, WAY above our heads.
>
> I, for one, am going to abstain myself from any further 'political'
> conversations in this newsgroup because no matter what ANY of us say,
> there
> is always going to be a contradiction somewhere along the lines that will
> either p!ss you off, or p!ss me off. I don't need the additional stress in
> my life right now, I've already got too much, and I know for a fact that
> at
> other's in the group are suffering from similar forms of stress that are
> also not needed.
>
>



Re: We Will Not Forget by Cerebrus

Cerebrus
Mon Oct 02 01:03:54 CDT 2006


BD wrote:

> All I can say is that none of us are politicians, h3ll some of us can barely
> keep a network of computers running, let alone an entire fsuking country.
> Yet we still take it upon ourselves to critique the actions of something
> that is, overall, WAY above our heads.
>
> I, for one, am going to abstain myself from any further 'political'
> conversations in this newsgroup because no matter what ANY of us say, there
> is always going to be a contradiction somewhere along the lines that will
> either p!ss you off, or p!ss me off. I don't need the additional stress in
> my life right now, I've already got too much, and I know for a fact that at
> other's in the group are suffering from similar forms of stress that are
> also not needed.

Agreed. No more politics here... :-)

----
*Points towards Lowdes*

Cere "He started it !" brus.
MCNGP #LIV


Re: We Will Not Forget by Jtyc

Jtyc
Mon Oct 02 10:34:21 CDT 2006

> True, and I really didn't mean it the sense of not being an American (for
> the most part), I was directing it toward those without the stereotypical
> "American" attitude.

I understand. I just get frustrated when people get too emtional and start
throwing insults instead of having a real dialog.


Hugs?



Re: We Will Not Forget by Jtyc

Jtyc
Mon Oct 02 11:00:37 CDT 2006

> The man who sent them over there and whose orders they take however should
> be tried for stupid.

See now, no reason to call names. If you disagree with the policies, that's
fine, doesn't make the man an idiot and it's not going to convince me to
come to your side.

That being said, I agree with going in there although not for the reasons
originally stated. And I believe it would be a bad idea of pulling out of
the region before we win.



Re: We Will Not Forget by kpg

kpg
Mon Oct 02 11:05:46 CDT 2006

<snip>

I agree with your assertion that what we are seeing today is the result
of the several hundred (or thousands?) years of history. Nothing
happens in a vacuum.

I find it interesting that there are those that agree with invading
Iraq, ousting Saddam, and establishing a democracy in Iraq, but Bush is
an idot. There is no magic formula to get this done, it requires
fortitude, perseverance, and a united front. As a two- time Bush
supporter, I can say I don't agree with all his policies, but hindsight
is 20-20 and not useful for getting thing done. I laugh when I hear the
latest mantra from democrats that Bush lied and didn't tell us how hard
it would be. I remember him standing up in front of America and saying
it was going to be a long and difficult road. I remember thinking back
then that the America of today (as opposed to that of WWII) had no
concept of sacrifice. I knew then this was going to unravel because of
a certain political party whose only claim to fame is being in
opposition to the other party.

Your take on Intelligence and its roots for world jealousy I think are a
little off. There is jealousy, but a lot of what we see is a 'wag the
dog' approach by foreign leaders that have to explain to their
impoverished citizens why the have no food, jobs, or hope. Well it
can't be corruption at all levels of the government, no, it must be the
West, and in particular, the United Sates. This mimics the class envy
we see the demos try to (successfully) exploit in America. Class envy
works because of ignorance - now is ignorance the result of less
intelligence? Maybe, maybe not. Ignorant populations are easily
controlled with propaganda. Ignorance is a tool used by dictators and
tyrants, and as such is cultivated by them. Unfortunately, America is
becoming a very ignorant place.

Ironically, this is one reason I have some hope for Iran. What I have
seen of their people, they are far from ignorant - but they are
oppressed by a radical and controlling government. I wonder how long
that can last in a county with an enlightened population. Iraq, on the
other hand, I have little hope for - which presents a big problem for
the US. How do we withdraw form a nation that can't govern itself? I
would like the see the UN but it's money where it's mouth is, so to
speak, and take over the majority of the occupation/transition duties.
I'm sorry, that's a joke.



Re: We Will Not Forget by CBIC

CBIC
Mon Oct 02 11:06:29 CDT 2006


"Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> wrote in message
news:%23I5dWvj5GHA.4064@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> That being said, I agree with going in there although not for the reasons
> originally stated. And I believe it would be a bad idea of pulling out of
> the region before we win.
>
At what point can victory be declared? When there are no car bombs detonated
for a month? a year? After the first democratic election? That already
happened. I support our troops 100% but that doesn't mean I agree with
everything going on.



Re: We Will Not Forget by Jtyc

Jtyc
Mon Oct 02 11:12:48 CDT 2006

> All I can say is Halliburton.

Name me one war where business didn't profit from it. It's as much a part
of war as is civilian casualties. I don't care about Halliburton and I
don't care who is profiting from it. My concern is that we have a very
large portion of the world population that is being indoctrinated into
hating the West and anything free. These people are not brought up to value
the same things as us; life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I fear that this will culminate into a nuclear detonation somewhere in the
world, hopefully not in the West.



Re: We Will Not Forget by kpg

kpg
Mon Oct 02 11:14:24 CDT 2006

As Jtyc once said in microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse

> I understand. I just get frustrated when people get too emtional and
> start throwing insults instead of having a real dialog.

Shut up! You Stink!



Re: We Will Not Forget by LRM

LRM
Mon Oct 02 11:18:03 CDT 2006

"Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> wrote in message
news:%23%233TK2j5GHA.400@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> All I can say is Halliburton.
>
> Name me one war where business didn't profit from it. It's as much a part
> of war as is civilian casualties. I don't care about Halliburton and I
> don't care who is profiting from it. My concern is that we have a very
> large portion of the world population that is being indoctrinated into
> hating the West and anything free. These people are not b