Value of MCSE without a degree?

What is the value, if any, of having an MCSE without
having a degree in some form or shape? Are there job
applications that you can apply an MCSE to without having
a degree in some computer or otherwise field?

Politician
Mon Jan 05 14:43:34 CST 2004

"Schm75uck" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:013201c3d3cb$8bfbe970$a601280a@phx.gbl...
> What is the value, if any, of having an MCSE without
> having a degree in some form or shape? Are there job
> applications that you can apply an MCSE to without having
> a degree in some computer or otherwise field?

The Five Keys to getting a job in IT:

1) Education
2) Experience
3) Certification
4) Know someone
5) Great personality

The MCSE without one of the other four is pretty worthless. It's when you
have the MCSE combined with one, two, three, or ultimately all four of the
other key's that it begins to show it's worth. So without an education, it's
still worthwhile with experience, or if you know someone, or if you just
have a great personality that people love to work with you.

--
Politician Spock
MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
© 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.

oncebitten
Mon Jan 05 14:50:06 CST 2004

Politician Spock wrote:
> "Schm75uck" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:013201c3d3cb$8bfbe970$a601280a@phx.gbl...
>> What is the value, if any, of having an MCSE without
>> having a degree in some form or shape? Are there job
>> applications that you can apply an MCSE to without having
>> a degree in some computer or otherwise field?
>
> The Five Keys to getting a job in IT:
>
> 1) Education
> 2) Experience
> 3) Certification
> 4) Know someone
> 5) Great personality

And you know... if you leave out Certification, you've got GEEK

--
Fris "I used to be a GEEK" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help

The
Mon Jan 05 15:00:49 CST 2004

>What is the value, if any, of having an MCSE without
>having a degree in some form or shape?

'a degree in some form or shape' whatever you mean by that, helps
your résumé get noticed above those that don't. this is more so for
people looking to enter the profession.

MCSE good to have, must be able to prove it though.

>Are there job
>applications that you can apply an MCSE to without having
>a degree in some computer or otherwise field?

What counts is experience that's what employers look for. MCSE will
count some what when applying for posts with an ms partner, but even
then there few of those left that will take you on with out good old
experience.

Hardest step is the first one, which nowadays is even harder, unless
that is, you live in or near Bombay.

The
Mon Jan 05 15:08:00 CST 2004

>4) Know someone
>5) Great personality

Yep, especially the last one. No way I would want to work with someone
I could not relate to.

The
Mon Jan 05 15:10:51 CST 2004

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:50:06 -0500, Frisbee® MCNGP
<oncebitten@twiceshy.com> wrote:

>And you know... if you leave out Certification, you've got GEEK

or if you leave out 'Great Personality' you have about 500 million
people.

oncebitten
Mon Jan 05 15:17:44 CST 2004

The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 15:50:06 -0500, Frisbee® MCNGP
> <oncebitten@twiceshy.com> wrote:
>
>> And you know... if you leave out Certification, you've got GEEK
>
> or if you leave out 'Great Personality' you have about 500 million
> people.

No... then you just have EEK

--
Fris "Wait a minute... you were right" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help

The
Mon Jan 05 15:28:11 CST 2004

>No... then you just have EEK
oh... Actually looking at it, it could be 243,712.

billyw
Mon Jan 05 17:23:20 CST 2004

3 out of 5 can't be bad for you :)

"Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23Ss9wy80DHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> "Schm75uck" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:013201c3d3cb$8bfbe970$a601280a@phx.gbl...
> > What is the value, if any, of having an MCSE without
> > having a degree in some form or shape? Are there job
> > applications that you can apply an MCSE to without having
> > a degree in some computer or otherwise field?
>
> The Five Keys to getting a job in IT:
>
> 1) Education
> 2) Experience
> 3) Certification
> 4) Know someone
> 5) Great personality
>
> The MCSE without one of the other four is pretty worthless. It's when you
> have the MCSE combined with one, two, three, or ultimately all four of the
> other key's that it begins to show it's worth. So without an education,
it's
> still worthwhile with experience, or if you know someone, or if you just
> have a great personality that people love to work with you.
>
> --
> Politician Spock
> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>
>

billyw
Mon Jan 05 17:24:18 CST 2004

actually very important..
no point working with some teetotal, religious prude.
what a waste of a day

"The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
news:udkjvv803t1ssrqt6kpojv45holj9n642g@4ax.com...
> >4) Know someone
> >5) Great personality
>
> Yep, especially the last one. No way I would want to work with someone
> I could not relate to.

billyw
Mon Jan 05 17:24:49 CST 2004

you forgot one..
desire

"Politician Spock" <rhammersmith@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23Ss9wy80DHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> "Schm75uck" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:013201c3d3cb$8bfbe970$a601280a@phx.gbl...
> > What is the value, if any, of having an MCSE without
> > having a degree in some form or shape? Are there job
> > applications that you can apply an MCSE to without having
> > a degree in some computer or otherwise field?
>
> The Five Keys to getting a job in IT:
>
> 1) Education
> 2) Experience
> 3) Certification
> 4) Know someone
> 5) Great personality
>
> The MCSE without one of the other four is pretty worthless. It's when you
> have the MCSE combined with one, two, three, or ultimately all four of the
> other key's that it begins to show it's worth. So without an education,
it's
> still worthwhile with experience, or if you know someone, or if you just
> have a great personality that people love to work with you.
>
> --
> Politician Spock
> MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
> The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
> understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
> living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
> © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
>
>

Jtyc
Mon Jan 05 17:37:00 CST 2004

> no point working with some teetotal, religious prude.
> what a waste of a day

Exactly. I could waste an entire day debating the whole thing with them.

Jtyc
Mon Jan 05 17:37:34 CST 2004

> you forgot one..
> desire

What if I desire a higher salary with less work?

anonymous
Mon Jan 05 17:41:13 CST 2004

GEEK. I like that.

Get the degree. I don't have one and it has made things harder. A lot of doors will not be opened to you without it. In May I will have my associates, and then after a short break I will go back for my bachelors.

Andy

----- Frisbee® MCNGP wrote: -----

Politician Spock wrote:
> "Schm75uck" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:013201c3d3cb$8bfbe970$a601280a@phx.gbl...
>> What is the value, if any, of having an MCSE without
>> having a degree in some form or shape? Are there job
>> applications that you can apply an MCSE to without having
>> a degree in some computer or otherwise field?
>> The Five Keys to getting a job in IT:
>> 1) Education
> 2) Experience
> 3) Certification
> 4) Know someone
> 5) Great personality

And you know... if you leave out Certification, you've got GEEK

--
Fris "I used to be a GEEK" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help

JaR
Mon Jan 05 17:40:58 CST 2004

"Jtyc" <jtyc_mcngp@f'nspammersdie.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u13mGS%230DHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > you forgot one..
> > desire
>
> What if I desire a higher salary with less work?
>
>

You can't have that job, I already have dibs on the next one that comes up.

billyw
Mon Jan 05 18:57:40 CST 2004

hey do you invite the religious types in when they doorstep..
nothing like a good debate.. mormons (or is that morons) are really easy to
knock off their stride.. the mere mention of the osmonds will send them
running

"Jtyc" <jtyc_mcngp@f'nspammersdie.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%23jtbyR%230DHA.3656@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > no point working with some teetotal, religious prude.
> > what a waste of a day
>
> Exactly. I could waste an entire day debating the whole thing with them.
>
>

billyw
Mon Jan 05 18:58:56 CST 2004

i have that job.. it's called working for yourself.
i could make the same as what i was making working for someone else.. but
working 10 hours per week..


"Jtyc" <jtyc_mcngp@f'nspammersdie.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u13mGS%230DHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > you forgot one..
> > desire
>
> What if I desire a higher salary with less work?
>
>
>

anonymous
Mon Jan 05 19:01:12 CST 2004



----- Politician Spock wrote: -----


The Five Keys to getting a job in IT:

1) Education
2) Experience
3) Certification
4) Know someone
5) Great personality


Wow. I just gave a talk to some high school kids before Christmas (career advice, IT, can you believe that?) and your list was better than mine:

You need Knowledge and a Skill Set gained through

1/ Experience
2/ Industry Certification
3/ Relevant Degree

which synergise (meaning the sum of one or more is better than either on their own). I gave the example that someone who has experience gained by studying and developing their skill set through certification and a relevant university degree but never worked in paid IT employment may be more likely to get some well paying jobs over someone who was very experienced but lacked any certification or degree.

I like the other list because I would have to say every job I have acquired along the way was because I knew someone connected with getting me that job / work. So that would have to go to the top of the list. Being dull wouldn't help, so I think - Why not? - include it in the list as well.


Is your list copyright???

anonymous
Mon Jan 05 19:16:05 CST 2004

Any chance I could get you to get a symbol or something, rather than refer to you as the Poster formerly known as Kline Sher? That's right. I use the newsreader at www.microsoft.com/learning/community/newsgroups/...yougetthepictire and I don't get the "e" on the end. (I use the newsreader because I am often goofing around on these newsgroups when I am on site "working"

Unlike the Artist formerly known as Prince, I think your career is taking off now that you have changed your name. So let's make the transformation complete - how about a symbol then

:) :| ;) :( "_" are just a few that are already taken.

billyw
Mon Jan 05 19:55:36 CST 2004

i've copyrighted it..
in the name of the crown

>
> Is your list copyright???

oncebitten
Tue Jan 06 07:30:06 CST 2004

ajs1976 wrote:
> GEEK. I like that.
>
> Get the degree. I don't have one and it has made things harder. A
> lot of doors will not be opened to you without it. In May I will
> have my associates, and then after a short break I will go back for
> my bachelors.
>
> Andy

My "short break" between Associate's and Bachelor's degrees has been 21
years so far.

Hope you have better luck.

--
Fris "Show me the money" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help

oncebitten
Tue Jan 06 07:35:30 CST 2004

Marko wrote:
> ----- Politician Spock wrote: -----
>
>
> The Five Keys to getting a job in IT:
>
> 1) Education
> 2) Experience
> 3) Certification
> 4) Know someone
> 5) Great personality
>
>
> Wow. I just gave a talk to some high school kids before Christmas
> (career advice, IT, can you believe that?) and your list was better
> than mine:
>
> You need Knowledge and a Skill Set gained through
>
> 1/ Experience
> 2/ Industry Certification
> 3/ Relevant Degree

Well dang, Spock's IS better. Yours spells IRE

--
Fris "Erin go Braless" bee® MCNGP #13

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help

Consultant
Tue Jan 06 08:52:35 CST 2004

i usually answer the door with some iroon maiden playing in the background
and a freshly decapitated chicken in my hand

"billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in message
news:OAJcRA$0DHA.1736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> hey do you invite the religious types in when they doorstep..
> nothing like a good debate.. mormons (or is that morons) are really easy
to
> knock off their stride.. the mere mention of the osmonds will send them
> running
>
> "Jtyc" <jtyc_mcngp@f'nspammersdie.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:%23jtbyR%230DHA.3656@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > no point working with some teetotal, religious prude.
> > > what a waste of a day
> >
> > Exactly. I could waste an entire day debating the whole thing with
them.
> >
> >
>
>

Consultant
Tue Jan 06 08:53:08 CST 2004

what do you call your current position?
--
Consultant, MCNGP Founding Father
Lead Thug, Public Enemy #1
www.mcngp.tk

"Jtyc" <jtyc_mcngp@f'nspammersdie.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u13mGS%230DHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > you forgot one..
> > desire
>
> What if I desire a higher salary with less work?
>
>
>

Consultant
Tue Jan 06 08:56:40 CST 2004

err... iron
--
Consultant, MCNGP Founding Father
Lead Thug, Public Enemy #1
www.mcngp.tk

"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp_removepants@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OZpmZRG1DHA.2328@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> i usually answer the door with some iroon maiden playing in the background
> and a freshly decapitated chicken in my hand
>
> "billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in message
> news:OAJcRA$0DHA.1736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > hey do you invite the religious types in when they doorstep..
> > nothing like a good debate.. mormons (or is that morons) are really easy
> to
> > knock off their stride.. the mere mention of the osmonds will send them
> > running
> >
> > "Jtyc" <jtyc_mcngp@f'nspammersdie.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:%23jtbyR%230DHA.3656@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > no point working with some teetotal, religious prude.
> > > > what a waste of a day
> > >
> > > Exactly. I could waste an entire day debating the whole thing with
> them.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Jtyc
Tue Jan 06 09:02:05 CST 2004

> the mere mention of the osmonds will send them
> running

I'm a little bit country...

Jtyc
Tue Jan 06 09:04:04 CST 2004

> what do you call your current position?

Yes but I don't wish to stagnate. Perhaps I should have said "I desire even
more money and even less work."?

Consultant
Tue Jan 06 09:18:53 CST 2004

is less work possible for you?
--
Consultant, MCNGP Founding Father
Lead Thug, Public Enemy #1
www.mcngp.tk

"Jtyc" <jtyc_mcngp@f'nspammersdie.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u3KF0XG1DHA.3496@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > what do you call your current position?
>
> Yes but I don't wish to stagnate. Perhaps I should have said "I desire
even
> more money and even less work."?
>
>
>

Politician
Tue Jan 06 09:46:30 CST 2004

"Jtyc" <jtyc_mcngp@f'nspammersdie.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u13mGS%230DHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > you forgot one..
> > desire
>
> What if I desire a higher salary with less work?
>

That would make you a union rep.

--
Politician Spock
MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
© 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.

Politician
Tue Jan 06 09:47:39 CST 2004

"Marko" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:D731980E-CAC5-417F-89AC-E876D2CCC649@microsoft.com...
>
> Is your list copyright???

Not by me. It's info that has been shared to me by others in the field.

--
Politician Spock
MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
© 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.

Jtyc
Tue Jan 06 09:51:40 CST 2004

> is less work possible for you?

Oh definately.

Jtyc
Tue Jan 06 09:53:44 CST 2004

> That would make you a union rep.

hmm... good point.

JaR
Tue Jan 06 11:20:27 CST 2004

"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp_removepants@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OZpmZRG1DHA.2328@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> i usually answer the door with some iroon maiden playing in the background
> and a freshly decapitated chicken in my hand
>

Opening the door in the nude with Ozzy Osborne blaring on the stereo can be
equally efficacious, if one does not have any freshly decapitated poultry
close to hand.

JaR
Thug #666

Larry
Tue Jan 06 11:34:05 CST 2004

The Ozzy isn't necessary either.<G>

I have found answering the door in a very friendly manner and inviting them
in for a chat while nude works very well with Jehovah's Witnesses here in
the Southeast.
The Witnesses bypass my house when making their rounds now.

Larry
"JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
news:u7lfwlH1DHA.3416@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> "Consultant" <consultant_mcngp_removepants@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:OZpmZRG1DHA.2328@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>> i usually answer the door with some iroon maiden playing in the
>> background
>> and a freshly decapitated chicken in my hand
>>
>
> Opening the door in the nude with Ozzy Osborne blaring on the stereo can
> be
> equally efficacious, if one does not have any freshly decapitated poultry
> close to hand.
>
> JaR
> Thug #666
>
>

JaR
Tue Jan 06 11:41:07 CST 2004

"Larry Samuels" <larry@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:uHSOLtH1DHA.2156@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> The Ozzy isn't necessary either.<G>
>
>

Must have just been a coincidence, then. <EG>

Consultant
Tue Jan 06 12:16:56 CST 2004

i also like to *pretend * that i'm beating my wife when they come to the
door, it has a great effect!
--
Consultant, MCNGP Founding Father
Lead Thug, Public Enemy #1
www.mcngp.tk

"Larry Samuels" <larry@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:uHSOLtH1DHA.2156@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> The Ozzy isn't necessary either.<G>
>
> I have found answering the door in a very friendly manner and inviting
them
> in for a chat while nude works very well with Jehovah's Witnesses here in
> the Southeast.
> The Witnesses bypass my house when making their rounds now.
>
> Larry
> "JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
> news:u7lfwlH1DHA.3416@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > "Consultant" <consultant_mcngp_removepants@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:OZpmZRG1DHA.2328@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >> i usually answer the door with some iroon maiden playing in the
> >> background
> >> and a freshly decapitated chicken in my hand
> >>
> >
> > Opening the door in the nude with Ozzy Osborne blaring on the stereo can
> > be
> > equally efficacious, if one does not have any freshly decapitated
poultry
> > close to hand.
> >
> > JaR
> > Thug #666
> >
> >
>
>

JaR
Tue Jan 06 12:26:44 CST 2004

"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp_removepants@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:erHjlDI1DHA.3224@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> i also like to *pretend * that i'm beating my wife when they come to the
> door, it has a great effect!
>

Sinner! So you were only "pretending"? We shall be back.

With re-inforcements.

I may even bring the choir!

Josiah

billyw
Tue Jan 06 12:50:13 CST 2004

religious types really are a laugh...
the thing is they are a bit like vegitarians "ooh it's ok to eat eggs and
fish..
and plants dont feel a thing.
i believe the moslems call it a fatwa

"JaR" <plente@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
news:uDvWyKI1DHA.2480@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "Consultant" <consultant_mcngp_removepants@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:erHjlDI1DHA.3224@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > i also like to *pretend * that i'm beating my wife when they come to the
> > door, it has a great effect!
> >
>
> Sinner! So you were only "pretending"? We shall be back.
>
> With re-inforcements.
>
> I may even bring the choir!
>
> Josiah
>
>