Thinking out loud re: MCSE

I'm actively turning my years as a technician on various medical, library,
and business products into certifications so that I can be more marketable.
So far this year I've managed to study for and pass CompTIA's A+ and
Network+ exams. Now, my next thought was to pick up an MCP on either XP
Prof. or Vista. This would get me my MCP plus move me one step closer
towards MCSE on Win. Server 2003.

My question to the group here is which OS exam should I go for: 70-270 or
70-620? I don't see XP disappearing anytime soon, but I wonder if I should
just push ahead and go with Vista since it will eventually replace it. I
think I'd rather do XP since I've had the most experience with it, but I'm
also running Vista Home Premium on 2 machines at home.

Any thoughts, good people?

TIA

John
Wed Apr 23 08:31:44 CDT 2008


"Boris Badenov" <noyfb@dingledork.net> wrote in message
news:%23Jr2O9TpIHA.2636@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> I'm actively turning my years as a technician on various medical, library,
> and business products into certifications so that I can be more
> marketable. So far this year I've managed to study for and pass CompTIA's
> A+ and Network+ exams. Now, my next thought was to pick up an MCP on
> either XP Prof. or Vista. This would get me my MCP plus move me one step
> closer towards MCSE on Win. Server 2003.
>
> My question to the group here is which OS exam should I go for: 70-270 or
> 70-620? I don't see XP disappearing anytime soon, but I wonder if I
> should just push ahead and go with Vista since it will eventually replace
> it. I think I'd rather do XP since I've had the most experience with it,
> but I'm also running Vista Home Premium on 2 machines at home.
>
> Any thoughts, good people?
>

Why go for MCSE 2003 when Server 2008 will eventually replace it? It's the
same question. The issue here is what do YOU see yourself needing in the
future, especially if you are looking to market yourself? The fact is both
70-270 and 70-620 will count towards the client elective for MCSE 2003,
however nobody will ever ask you what client elective you took to get to
MCSE. Most people (including myself) would tell you that if you have more
experience with XP then go for 270, and if you have more experience with
Vista, then go fot 620. What fits in with future certifications that you
think you might pursue?

By the way, 70-270 will get you MCP, 70-620 will get you MCTS. However, any
of the core MCSE 2003 exams will get you MCP when you move on towards them.

Congrats on the CompTIA certs. Say 'Hi' to moose and squirrel (and Natasha,
she's hawt)

John R

Ciro
Wed Apr 23 10:16:37 CDT 2008

> By the way, 70-270 will get you MCP, 70-620 will get you MCTS. However,
> any of the core MCSE 2003 exams will get you MCP when you move on towards
> them.

Hmmm.... I think passing for 70-620 will earn you the MCP *AND* MCTS
credential.
However I cannot give a 100% guarantee on that...

( http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcp/requirements.mspx )

- Besides that I personally think the Vista exam is easier then the XP exam.
This is because all the "sysprep/deploying" questions in the XP exam. Your
XP user experience will prove to be quit useless with those questions.
- When you are MSCA/MCSE you can upgrade to the new 2008 certification path.
- TS credentials will disappear withing time, MSCA/MSCE credentials not
(They will become "out of fashion offcourse ;) ).

Kind regards,

Ciro.
--
Ciro Morra - ciro@morra.us
Junior Microsoft Consultant

Jtyc
Wed Apr 23 12:52:41 CDT 2008

> Why go for MCSE 2003 when Server 2008 will eventually replace it?

Because 2003 is still the majority of the marketplace and will be around for
quite some time.

John
Wed Apr 23 13:22:41 CDT 2008


"Ciro" <ciro@morra.us> wrote in message
news:e2aHSUVpIHA.1952@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> Hmmm.... I think passing for 70-620 will earn you the MCP *AND* MCTS
> credential.
> However I cannot give a 100% guarantee on that...
>
> ( http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcp/requirements.mspx )
>
> - Besides that I personally think the Vista exam is easier then the XP
> exam. This is because all the "sysprep/deploying" questions in the XP
> exam. Your XP user experience will prove to be quit useless with those
> questions.
> - When you are MSCA/MCSE you can upgrade to the new 2008 certification
> path.
> - TS credentials will disappear withing time, MSCA/MSCE credentials not
> (They will become "out of fashion offcourse ;) ).
>

Hi Ciro.

In fact, 70-620 will not grant MCP status. See the following links...
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-270.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-620.mspx

The new MCTS/MCITP generation of exams (Vista, Server 2008, etc) do not
grant MCP status. MCP, like MCSA and MCSE will become "out of fashion" some
day as you say.

MCTS credentials have now been extended. The original announcement was that
they were good for three years and would have to be renewed. Microsoft has
changed that now. MCTS credentials will now expire with mainstream support
for the technology. So, when mainstream support for Vista drops, the MCTS
related credentials for Vista technologies will expire.

XP user experience will indeed not fully prepare you for 70-270 since 70-270
is not a user level exam, it is designed to look at XP from a system
administrator point of view. That is why it is accepted as the client side
component of MCSA and MCSE. Deployment issues such as sysprep and RIS are
important to administrators. For user level XP, one should consider the
MCDST certification tests which are much more user oriented (although, as I
remember, you did have to have at least an introduction to RIS and sysprep
for 70-271, but not near as much as 70-270).

I have yet to take 70-620 (yea, I'm being lazy) but I am truly surprised
that there does not appear to be any deployment objectives in that test, at
least none on the link I posted above unless I am mis-reading that. I guess
they can't test *everything*.

Cheers

John R

John
Wed Apr 23 13:36:19 CDT 2008


"Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> wrote in message
news:en2JYrWpIHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Why go for MCSE 2003 when Server 2008 will eventually replace it?
>
> Because 2003 is still the majority of the marketplace and will be around
> for quite some time.

As will XP. Read the next two sentences of that post. My point there was
to find out what was important to the OP and where they see themselves in
the near and not-so-near future. The OP was questioning about taking an XP
test when Vista is out, yet they were interested in pursuing MCSE when
Server 2008 was out.

They have to find out what is important to them, and then design a
certification plan around that. Asking us isn't going to help.

John R

Boris
Wed Apr 23 14:01:07 CDT 2008


"John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> wrote in message
news:e08B77WpIHA.4112@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> The new MCTS/MCITP generation of exams (Vista, Server 2008, etc) do not
> grant MCP status. MCP, like MCSA and MCSE will become "out of fashion"
> some day as you say.
>
> MCTS credentials have now been extended. The original announcement was
> that they were good for three years and would have to be renewed.
> Microsoft has changed that now. MCTS credentials will now expire with
> mainstream support for the technology. So, when mainstream support for
> Vista drops, the MCTS related credentials for Vista technologies will
> expire.
>
> XP user experience will indeed not fully prepare you for 70-270 since
> 70-270 is not a user level exam, it is designed to look at XP from a
> system administrator point of view. That is why it is accepted as the
> client side component of MCSA and MCSE. Deployment issues such as sysprep
> and RIS are important to administrators. For user level XP, one should
> consider the MCDST certification tests which are much more user oriented
> (although, as I remember, you did have to have at least an introduction to
> RIS and sysprep for 70-271, but not near as much as 70-270).
>
> I have yet to take 70-620 (yea, I'm being lazy) but I am truly surprised
> that there does not appear to be any deployment objectives in that test,
> at least none on the link I posted above unless I am mis-reading that. I
> guess they can't test *everything*.
>
> Cheers
>
> John R

I appreciate the feedback on this. If I go the Vista/Server 2008 route I
wonder if I will gain enough knowledge to help in the administration of
XP/Server 2003 systems?

Another observation/curiosity: do employers recognize that the MCTS is
equivalent to the MCP and that the MCITP is equivalent to the MCSE?


BTW... Moose and squirrel are fine, but Natasha has run off with Mr. Big.
Does Whatsamat U. have an IT Program?

Jtyc
Wed Apr 23 14:22:46 CDT 2008

> Read the next two sentences of that post.

No. You can't make me.


> They have to find out what is important to them, and then design a
> certification plan around that.

Helps to consider the marketplace though don't you think? What's the
current skill demand?


> Asking us isn't going to help.

Not this crowd...




wait a tic...

John
Wed Apr 23 15:10:21 CDT 2008


"Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> wrote in message
news:%23QjuguXpIHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Read the next two sentences of that post.
>
> No. You can't make me.
>

But my friend catwalker can :)

>
>> They have to find out what is important to them, and then design a
>> certification plan around that.
>
> Helps to consider the marketplace though don't you think? What's the
> current skill demand?
>

You're messing with me, right? You still don't see that I was not
questioning the value of 2003 (in fact, I agree with you), I was pointing
out the contradiction of being interested in MCSE (2003) when 2008 is out
(i.e. pursuing the earlier), and yet questioning if they should take an XP
test when Vista was out (i.e. NOT pursuring the earlier).

>
>> Asking us isn't going to help.
>
> Not this crowd...
>

Agreed ! Wait, I said it first.

John R

John
Wed Apr 23 15:25:59 CDT 2008


"Boris Badenov" <noyfb@dingledork.net> wrote in message
news:uEoalRXpIHA.4904@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> I appreciate the feedback on this. If I go the Vista/Server 2008 route I
> wonder if I will gain enough knowledge to help in the administration of
> XP/Server 2003 systems?
>
Conceptually? Yes, I think so. Point and click wise? Probably not.
However, when your company (and others) are ready to move to Server 2008,
you will be better positioned to lead those kinds of projects.

> Another observation/curiosity: do employers recognize that the MCTS is
> equivalent to the MCP and that the MCITP is equivalent to the MCSE?
>
Your guess is as good as anyones. Microsoft thinks they will value MCTS and
MCITP more than MCP and MCSE. As to equivilent, actually each of the new
certs comes with a sub-title, MCTS - Vista Configuraion, MCITP - System
Administrator, MCITP - Enterprise Administrator, etc etc. By making those
things more explicit, it is thought that employers would have a better
handle on what a person knows and what they don't. Of course, most people
will have a list as long as their arm in a few years, MCTS this, and MCTS
that. Also, by not putting the product name in the cert name, they will
have the same issue with MCITP in the future, (MCITP - Enterprise
Administrator what? 2008, 2013, 2017?)

Right now, someone says they are MCSE, are they MCSE on NT, on 2000, or
2003? If someone says they are MCP, that means they passed one test. One
test in what? SQL, XP, NT, 2000 Pro, ISA, etc. etc. I am very clear when I
post my certifications on something what they are in reference to. I
normally put something like...
MCDST (XP), MCSA (2000), MCSE (2003). I don't even list MCP as it doesn't
say anything important (IMHO). Besides, anyone who knows the current
certification structure would know right away that I have MCP anyway by
simply looking at the others.

>
> BTW... Moose and squirrel are fine, but Natasha has run off with Mr. Big.
> Does Whatsamat U. have an IT Program?
>
Mr. Big always got all the goodies :(

John R

catwalker63
Wed Apr 23 17:22:52 CDT 2008

"John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> prattled ceaselessly in
news:eQPWF4XpIHA.1580@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

>
> "Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> wrote in message
> news:%23QjuguXpIHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Read the next two sentences of that post.
>>
>> No. You can't make me.
>>
>
> But my friend catwalker can :)
>

You overestimate my powers. This one is strong in apathy.


--
Catwalker
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
"Definitely not wearing any underwear."

John
Wed Apr 23 20:39:04 CDT 2008


"catwalker63" <_catwalker63_@hotmamamail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A899CB17F68Ccatwalker63athotmail@216.196.97.136...
> "John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> prattled ceaselessly in
> news:eQPWF4XpIHA.1580@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
>
>>
>> "Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23QjuguXpIHA.3900@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> Read the next two sentences of that post.
>>>
>>> No. You can't make me.
>>>
>>
>> But my friend catwalker can :)
>>
>
> You overestimate my powers. This one is strong in apathy.
>
>

Well, I guess I won't be able to sleep anymore !!

John R

Jtyc
Thu Apr 24 11:00:42 CDT 2008

> You're messing with me, right? You still don't see that I was not
> questioning the value of 2003 (in fact, I agree with you), I was pointing
> out the contradiction of being interested in MCSE (2003) when 2008 is out
> (i.e. pursuing the earlier), and yet questioning if they should take an XP
> test when Vista was out (i.e. NOT pursuring the earlier).

You... try to confuse.





you bastard you

Jtyc
Thu Apr 24 11:02:27 CDT 2008

> You overestimate my powers. This one is strong in apathy.


Behold my powers of indifference!

OTHMAN
Thu Apr 24 12:40:00 CDT 2008

> You're in IT. As if you ever did sleep...

The IT room is freezing cold.

JaR
Thu Apr 24 13:20:12 CDT 2008

On 4/24/2008,Jtyc had the unmitigated gall to claim:

> > You overestimate my powers. This one is strong in apathy.
>
>
> Behold my powers of indifference!

Impressive indeed.

--
JaR
*YAWN*
Remove hat to reply

Ciro
Thu Apr 24 17:31:58 CDT 2008

"John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> schreef in bericht
news:e08B77WpIHA.4112@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

> The new MCTS/MCITP generation of exams (Vista, Server 2008, etc) do not
> grant MCP status. MCP, like MCSA and MCSE will become "out of fashion"
> some day as you say.

Yesterday I passed the 70-236 (TS:Exchange 2007) exam and the score printout
(still?) states the whole "MCP story" on it... Why is that?
Tomorrow I'l give 70-620 a try....

The new certification track is too new to know what it is worth for future
"bosses". I will finish MSCA first and then... MSCE or 2008??? Difficult...
:|

Boris
Thu Apr 24 20:13:24 CDT 2008


"Ciro" <ciro@morra.us> wrote in message
news:upziEslpIHA.2636@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "John R" <jsr^^^813@zoom^^^internet.net> schreef in bericht
> news:e08B77WpIHA.4112@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>> The new MCTS/MCITP generation of exams (Vista, Server 2008, etc) do not
>> grant MCP status. MCP, like MCSA and MCSE will become "out of fashion"
>> some day as you say.
>
> Yesterday I passed the 70-236 (TS:Exchange 2007) exam and the score
> printout (still?) states the whole "MCP story" on it... Why is that?
> Tomorrow I'l give 70-620 a try....
>
> The new certification track is too new to know what it is worth for future
> "bosses". I will finish MSCA first and then... MSCE or 2008???
> Difficult... :|
Best of luck tomorrow on the 70-620.

catwalker63
Fri Apr 25 08:31:53 CDT 2008

"Jtyc" <yo@respondtothegroup.com> prattled ceaselessly in
news:u6WjcSipIHA.5096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

>> You overestimate my powers. This one is strong in apathy.
>
>
> Behold my powers of indifference!
>
>
>

Actually, it's an awesome power. I don't much like getting old but there
are benefits and learning how to use this power was one of the best. You
can drive people completely insane without expending any energy at all.
Fascinating.

--
Catwalker
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
"Definitely not wearing any underwear."

Ciro
Fri Apr 25 08:59:27 CDT 2008


"Boris Badenov" <noyfb@dingledork.net> schreef in bericht
news:%23EFwQGnpIHA.4292@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Best of luck tomorrow on the 70-620.

Thanks Boris! It did help, I passed with 907 points today. 50% of the
questions was really easy, I'm really glad all those hours learning did pay
of for the other 50%!

Now.... Time for the mean 70-291 to become a MCSA...

Everybody have a great weekend!!!!!!!

Jtyc
Fri Apr 25 09:45:44 CDT 2008

> Actually, it's an awesome power. I don't much like getting old but there
> are benefits and learning how to use this power was one of the best. You
> can drive people completely insane without expending any energy at all.
> Fascinating.

I would concur... if I cared...


meh...

OTHMAN
Mon Apr 28 12:29:00 CDT 2008

> Hang meat.

what about mcngp's goat, slices

OTHMAN
Wed Apr 30 11:14:02 CDT 2008

> No good. ... MCNGP member's secret handbook.

Am I doing good.