My boss passed this on to me. Makes a good case against outsourcing.

http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/'My_offs
horing_horror_story.html?tag=tu.arch.link


http://tinyurl.com/2fha5

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
LnkWizard MCNGP 2^5

"He who does not test himself is worthless indeed"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

Re: OT: Outsourcing story by The

The
Mon Apr 05 17:08:12 CDT 2004

>My boss passed this on to me. Makes a good case against outsourcing.
>
>http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/'My_offs
>horing_horror_story.html?tag=tu.arch.link
>
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2fha5

In reply to one of my posts in the mcsd ng, this was posted: -

<snip poster='David' source='microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd'>

>I've seen this first hand and agree with you.
>
>A few years back I started on a "short term" contract with
>a company in London, UK. The company had some very good
>technically minded business people, but as a whole, the IT
>department was a joke. Shortly after, it was decided to
>outsource the whole of IT to a single third party, for
>which the chosen supplier happened to be based "offshore".
>It was calculated that the upheaval costs would be
>recovered in just 2 years and from then on the
>true "savings" would be realised. However the calculations
>were simply pie in the sky, and were based on *ALL* IT
>related personnel being "outsourced" as well. Naturally
>when the people, business analyst's as well as the
>techies, found out they all left, leaving the company with
>no one with an understanding of the business left to
>support the business! The "offshore" company had no
>business people, only coders which meant that my client
>had to employ expensive contract staff to replace the
>permies who left, as the service agreement with
>the "offshore" company required those type people to be
>supplied to the "offshore" company!
>
>Anyway, I'm still there on my "short term" contract,
>almost 4 years later and the "offshore" company have been
>booted into touch. Some of the original people have come
>back and a completely new IT structure is now in place
>which is 1000 times better than before. There are rumours
>around that the whole venture wasted £35 million.
>
>My view is that companies should look inward before
>looking outward when trying to rationalise their IT
>departments, as this is where the real savings can be
>made.
>
>David

</snip>

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Rowdy

Rowdy
Tue Apr 06 05:04:24 CDT 2004

The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
news:u0m370dsh10blce5quu9029gu28a6s4gpb@4ax.com:

> <snip poster='David' source='microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd'>
>
>>My view is that companies should look inward before
>>looking outward when trying to rationalise their IT
>>departments, as this is where the real savings can be
>>made.
>>
>>David
>
> </snip>
>

good post. but, unfortunatly, murphys un-written laws prevail:.

the grass is always greener in the other guys cow field; and the other
guys hot wife always looks hotter than you own.

:-(


--
Rowdy Yates
-------------------------------
Death to the Gypsy Kings!
-------------------------------
I am Against-TCPA
http://www.againsttcpa.com

Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Bhargav

Bhargav
Tue Apr 06 08:00:23 CDT 2004

I agree with Rowdey.

It's not always that outsourcing is bad and it's not always you have to lose
when you outsource. Yes, you have to be careful and screen your outsourcing
company before you outsource but isn't that what you have to do for anything
in life? Don't Credit companies screen you well before giving you loan? If
it's a risk, you should investigate and find how much you are risking. Go to
stock market, buy some stocks, how would you? You would check history,
referrals, take advice from others who hold that stocks. It's always good to
have referrals from previous clients, check their service history and verify
credentials. It's good to trust someone but trust only after
verification.Sometimes taking their word is not enough. This is true for any
outsourcing not only indians. If the providers are new, put the SLA mutually
agreeable to both parties so that you get what you want. We have some
agreements with our Vendors that penalizes them for not meeting performance
agreements (We don't outsource but agreements are in place for vendors who
we buy support contracts from).

This way you can play safe and still have benefits of outsourcing.

--
Thanks,
Bhargav Shukla
MCSE Windows Server 2003, MCSA Messaging, CCEA, RSA SecureID CSE


"Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@remove.lycos.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94C33DBF7ABA5rowdyyates2lycoscom@207.46.248.16...
> The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
> news:u0m370dsh10blce5quu9029gu28a6s4gpb@4ax.com:
>
> > <snip poster='David' source='microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd'>
> >
> >>My view is that companies should look inward before
> >>looking outward when trying to rationalise their IT
> >>departments, as this is where the real savings can be
> >>made.
> >>
> >>David
> >
> > </snip>
> >
>
> good post. but, unfortunatly, murphys un-written laws prevail:.
>
> the grass is always greener in the other guys cow field; and the other
> guys hot wife always looks hotter than you own.
>
> :-(
>
>
> --
> Rowdy Yates
> -------------------------------
> Death to the Gypsy Kings!
> -------------------------------
> I am Against-TCPA
> http://www.againsttcpa.com



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by kpg

kpg
Tue Apr 06 08:23:14 CDT 2004

I realize that this is an international forum, but from an American consumer
standpoint I think companies can sell the 'made in America' aspect of
not outsourcing. Yes, consumers shop for price and companies that outsource
may do better on the bottom line, for now. But if a credit card theft
scandal
occurs it could paint all outsourced companies in a bad light. Comapnies
may
find out that the svaings of outsourcing are costing them comsumer loyality.
Remember, we Americans are a very closed minded bunch.

God Bless the USA.

kpg

"Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in message
news:OGttgc9GEHA.2392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I agree with Rowdey.
>
> It's not always that outsourcing is bad and it's not always you have to
lose
> when you outsource. Yes, you have to be careful and screen your
outsourcing
> company before you outsource but isn't that what you have to do for
anything
> in life? Don't Credit companies screen you well before giving you loan? If
> it's a risk, you should investigate and find how much you are risking. Go
to
> stock market, buy some stocks, how would you? You would check history,
> referrals, take advice from others who hold that stocks. It's always good
to
> have referrals from previous clients, check their service history and
verify
> credentials. It's good to trust someone but trust only after
> verification.Sometimes taking their word is not enough. This is true for
any
> outsourcing not only indians. If the providers are new, put the SLA
mutually
> agreeable to both parties so that you get what you want. We have some
> agreements with our Vendors that penalizes them for not meeting
performance
> agreements (We don't outsource but agreements are in place for vendors who
> we buy support contracts from).
>
> This way you can play safe and still have benefits of outsourcing.
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Bhargav Shukla
> MCSE Windows Server 2003, MCSA Messaging, CCEA, RSA SecureID CSE
>
>
> "Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@remove.lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns94C33DBF7ABA5rowdyyates2lycoscom@207.46.248.16...
> > The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
> > news:u0m370dsh10blce5quu9029gu28a6s4gpb@4ax.com:
> >
> > > <snip poster='David' source='microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd'>
> > >
> > >>My view is that companies should look inward before
> > >>looking outward when trying to rationalise their IT
> > >>departments, as this is where the real savings can be
> > >>made.
> > >>
> > >>David
> > >
> > > </snip>
> > >
> >
> > good post. but, unfortunatly, murphys un-written laws prevail:.
> >
> > the grass is always greener in the other guys cow field; and the other
> > guys hot wife always looks hotter than you own.
> >
> > :-(
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rowdy Yates
> > -------------------------------
> > Death to the Gypsy Kings!
> > -------------------------------
> > I am Against-TCPA
> > http://www.againsttcpa.com
>
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Typh0n

Typh0n
Tue Apr 06 08:37:01 CDT 2004

Interesting point this one, in the UK there have recently been a couple of
large examples (although not widely publicised) of large banks and other
companies, who have reversed outsourcing decisions after having spent
fortunes on shifting aspects of their operations offshore. The reason for
bringing the outsourced portions of the operation back in house in all cases
was cited as consumer demand.

One bank stated that the loss in customer loyalty sent them a clear message
that although on paper the outsourcing concept saves significant amounts in
capital expenditure costs, the resulting impact from a disgruntled customer
base left them with little option but to U turn.

So - god bless the consumer!!!

:-)


"kpg" <ipost@thereforeiam.com> wrote in message
news:uuDIXp9GEHA.628@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I realize that this is an international forum, but from an American
consumer
> standpoint I think companies can sell the 'made in America' aspect of
> not outsourcing. Yes, consumers shop for price and companies that
outsource
> may do better on the bottom line, for now. But if a credit card theft
> scandal
> occurs it could paint all outsourced companies in a bad light. Comapnies
> may
> find out that the svaings of outsourcing are costing them comsumer
loyality.
> Remember, we Americans are a very closed minded bunch.
>
> God Bless the USA.
>
> kpg
>
> "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in message
> news:OGttgc9GEHA.2392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > I agree with Rowdey.
> >
> > It's not always that outsourcing is bad and it's not always you have to
> lose
> > when you outsource. Yes, you have to be careful and screen your
> outsourcing
> > company before you outsource but isn't that what you have to do for
> anything
> > in life? Don't Credit companies screen you well before giving you loan?
If
> > it's a risk, you should investigate and find how much you are risking.
Go
> to
> > stock market, buy some stocks, how would you? You would check history,
> > referrals, take advice from others who hold that stocks. It's always
good
> to
> > have referrals from previous clients, check their service history and
> verify
> > credentials. It's good to trust someone but trust only after
> > verification.Sometimes taking their word is not enough. This is true for
> any
> > outsourcing not only indians. If the providers are new, put the SLA
> mutually
> > agreeable to both parties so that you get what you want. We have some
> > agreements with our Vendors that penalizes them for not meeting
> performance
> > agreements (We don't outsource but agreements are in place for vendors
who
> > we buy support contracts from).
> >
> > This way you can play safe and still have benefits of outsourcing.
> >
> > --
> > Thanks,
> > Bhargav Shukla
> > MCSE Windows Server 2003, MCSA Messaging, CCEA, RSA SecureID CSE
> >
> >
> > "Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@remove.lycos.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns94C33DBF7ABA5rowdyyates2lycoscom@207.46.248.16...
> > > The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
> > > news:u0m370dsh10blce5quu9029gu28a6s4gpb@4ax.com:
> > >
> > > > <snip poster='David' source='microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd'>
> > > >
> > > >>My view is that companies should look inward before
> > > >>looking outward when trying to rationalise their IT
> > > >>departments, as this is where the real savings can be
> > > >>made.
> > > >>
> > > >>David
> > > >
> > > > </snip>
> > > >
> > >
> > > good post. but, unfortunatly, murphys un-written laws prevail:.
> > >
> > > the grass is always greener in the other guys cow field; and the other
> > > guys hot wife always looks hotter than you own.
> > >
> > > :-(
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rowdy Yates
> > > -------------------------------
> > > Death to the Gypsy Kings!
> > > -------------------------------
> > > I am Against-TCPA
> > > http://www.againsttcpa.com
> >
> >
>
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Rowdy

Rowdy
Tue Apr 06 08:45:14 CDT 2004

me? what did i say? i just said my neighbour's got a hot wife...

:-)

Yo, Bhargav! me see's you got a RSA SecureID CSE. did you use books to study?
where you get them from?




"Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in
news:OGttgc9GEHA.2392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

> I agree with Rowdey.
>
> It's not always that outsourcing is bad and it's not always you have to
lose
> when you outsource. Yes, you have to be careful and screen your outsourcing
> company before you outsource but isn't that what you have to do for
anything
> in life? Don't Credit companies screen you well before giving you loan? If
> it's a risk, you should investigate and find how much you are risking. Go
to
> stock market, buy some stocks, how would you? You would check history,
> referrals, take advice from others who hold that stocks. It's always good
to
> have referrals from previous clients, check their service history and
verify
> credentials. It's good to trust someone but trust only after
> verification.Sometimes taking their word is not enough. This is true for
any
> outsourcing not only indians. If the providers are new, put the SLA
mutually
> agreeable to both parties so that you get what you want. We have some
> agreements with our Vendors that penalizes them for not meeting performance
> agreements (We don't outsource but agreements are in place for vendors who
> we buy support contracts from).
>
> This way you can play safe and still have benefits of outsourcing.
>



Rowdy Yates
--
"the man who tried and failed miserably"


Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Consultant

Consultant
Tue Apr 06 08:53:25 CDT 2004

i like india's spin "indian high-tech......jobs stolen from america"


"kpg" <ipost@thereforeiam.com> wrote in message
news:uuDIXp9GEHA.628@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> I realize that this is an international forum, but from an American
consumer
> standpoint I think companies can sell the 'made in America' aspect of
> not outsourcing. Yes, consumers shop for price and companies that
outsource
> may do better on the bottom line, for now. But if a credit card theft
> scandal
> occurs it could paint all outsourced companies in a bad light. Comapnies
> may
> find out that the svaings of outsourcing are costing them comsumer
loyality.
> Remember, we Americans are a very closed minded bunch.
>
> God Bless the USA.
>
> kpg
>
> "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in message
> news:OGttgc9GEHA.2392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > I agree with Rowdey.
> >
> > It's not always that outsourcing is bad and it's not always you have to
> lose
> > when you outsource. Yes, you have to be careful and screen your
> outsourcing
> > company before you outsource but isn't that what you have to do for
> anything
> > in life? Don't Credit companies screen you well before giving you loan?
If
> > it's a risk, you should investigate and find how much you are risking.
Go
> to
> > stock market, buy some stocks, how would you? You would check history,
> > referrals, take advice from others who hold that stocks. It's always
good
> to
> > have referrals from previous clients, check their service history and
> verify
> > credentials. It's good to trust someone but trust only after
> > verification.Sometimes taking their word is not enough. This is true for
> any
> > outsourcing not only indians. If the providers are new, put the SLA
> mutually
> > agreeable to both parties so that you get what you want. We have some
> > agreements with our Vendors that penalizes them for not meeting
> performance
> > agreements (We don't outsource but agreements are in place for vendors
who
> > we buy support contracts from).
> >
> > This way you can play safe and still have benefits of outsourcing.
> >
> > --
> > Thanks,
> > Bhargav Shukla
> > MCSE Windows Server 2003, MCSA Messaging, CCEA, RSA SecureID CSE
> >
> >
> > "Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@remove.lycos.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns94C33DBF7ABA5rowdyyates2lycoscom@207.46.248.16...
> > > The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
> > > news:u0m370dsh10blce5quu9029gu28a6s4gpb@4ax.com:
> > >
> > > > <snip poster='David' source='microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd'>
> > > >
> > > >>My view is that companies should look inward before
> > > >>looking outward when trying to rationalise their IT
> > > >>departments, as this is where the real savings can be
> > > >>made.
> > > >>
> > > >>David
> > > >
> > > > </snip>
> > > >
> > >
> > > good post. but, unfortunatly, murphys un-written laws prevail:.
> > >
> > > the grass is always greener in the other guys cow field; and the other
> > > guys hot wife always looks hotter than you own.
> > >
> > > :-(
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rowdy Yates
> > > -------------------------------
> > > Death to the Gypsy Kings!
> > > -------------------------------
> > > I am Against-TCPA
> > > http://www.againsttcpa.com
> >
> >
>
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Bhargav

Bhargav
Tue Apr 06 11:05:08 CDT 2004

As long as Indians offer what they have. I have been dealing with some who
offer what they don't have remotely. Go on elance and see how many post a
bid without even reading the description of job to be done. I am indian
myself but I would rather not bid for something and not offer something if I
can't handle it. Ultimately it not only makes me bad, it puts a blame on
community for one bad example.

Offering top notch service with your heart in it and not only capital would
make it much more reliable.

"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eCDAJ69GEHA.2768@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> i like india's spin "indian high-tech......jobs stolen from america"
>
>
> "kpg" <ipost@thereforeiam.com> wrote in message
> news:uuDIXp9GEHA.628@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > I realize that this is an international forum, but from an American
> consumer
> > standpoint I think companies can sell the 'made in America' aspect of
> > not outsourcing. Yes, consumers shop for price and companies that
> outsource
> > may do better on the bottom line, for now. But if a credit card theft
> > scandal
> > occurs it could paint all outsourced companies in a bad light.
Comapnies
> > may
> > find out that the svaings of outsourcing are costing them comsumer
> loyality.
> > Remember, we Americans are a very closed minded bunch.
> >
> > God Bless the USA.
> >
> > kpg
> >
> > "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in message
> > news:OGttgc9GEHA.2392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > I agree with Rowdey.
> > >
> > > It's not always that outsourcing is bad and it's not always you have
to
> > lose
> > > when you outsource. Yes, you have to be careful and screen your
> > outsourcing
> > > company before you outsource but isn't that what you have to do for
> > anything
> > > in life? Don't Credit companies screen you well before giving you
loan?
> If
> > > it's a risk, you should investigate and find how much you are risking.
> Go
> > to
> > > stock market, buy some stocks, how would you? You would check history,
> > > referrals, take advice from others who hold that stocks. It's always
> good
> > to
> > > have referrals from previous clients, check their service history and
> > verify
> > > credentials. It's good to trust someone but trust only after
> > > verification.Sometimes taking their word is not enough. This is true
for
> > any
> > > outsourcing not only indians. If the providers are new, put the SLA
> > mutually
> > > agreeable to both parties so that you get what you want. We have some
> > > agreements with our Vendors that penalizes them for not meeting
> > performance
> > > agreements (We don't outsource but agreements are in place for vendors
> who
> > > we buy support contracts from).
> > >
> > > This way you can play safe and still have benefits of outsourcing.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bhargav Shukla
> > > MCSE Windows Server 2003, MCSA Messaging, CCEA, RSA SecureID CSE
> > >
> > >
> > > "Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@remove.lycos.com> wrote in message
> > > news:Xns94C33DBF7ABA5rowdyyates2lycoscom@207.46.248.16...
> > > > The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
> > > > news:u0m370dsh10blce5quu9029gu28a6s4gpb@4ax.com:
> > > >
> > > > > <snip poster='David' source='microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd'>
> > > > >
> > > > >>My view is that companies should look inward before
> > > > >>looking outward when trying to rationalise their IT
> > > > >>departments, as this is where the real savings can be
> > > > >>made.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>David
> > > > >
> > > > > </snip>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > good post. but, unfortunatly, murphys un-written laws prevail:.
> > > >
> > > > the grass is always greener in the other guys cow field; and the
other
> > > > guys hot wife always looks hotter than you own.
> > > >
> > > > :-(
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Rowdy Yates
> > > > -------------------------------
> > > > Death to the Gypsy Kings!
> > > > -------------------------------
> > > > I am Against-TCPA
> > > > http://www.againsttcpa.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Bhargav

Bhargav
Tue Apr 06 11:13:47 CDT 2004

Friend will you share that photo of hot wife of your neighbour? lol. Just
kidding.

For RSA SecureID, I deployed RSA infrastructure for securing Aventis Pasteur
(that's where I work). This was from start to end, from design to implement
to design support structure and conduct training. This covered US, Canada
and France locations (which are 3 major with lot of smaller offices
scattered all around). Cross-realm was integrated in design, dial-up for
some users and VPN for others, all this was a big boost towards fully
understanding product head to toe.

Reading was another issue. I used guides (deployment guides, installation
manuals, user guides) tha comes with RSA product and available from their
support site.

If you are geared towards RSA certification, I can help you out if you want.
Feel free to ask. Did I say I was trainer for MCSE classes for 5 years?

--
Thanks,
Bhargav Shukla
MCSE Windows Server 2003, MCSA Messaging, CCEA, RSA SecureID CSE

"Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@removethis.lycos.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94C36324BF7F9rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16...
> me? what did i say? i just said my neighbour's got a hot wife...
>
> :-)
>
> Yo, Bhargav! me see's you got a RSA SecureID CSE. did you use books to
study?
> where you get them from?
>
>
>
>
> "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in
> news:OGttgc9GEHA.2392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
>
> > I agree with Rowdey.
> >
> > It's not always that outsourcing is bad and it's not always you have to
> lose
> > when you outsource. Yes, you have to be careful and screen your
outsourcing
> > company before you outsource but isn't that what you have to do for
> anything
> > in life? Don't Credit companies screen you well before giving you loan?
If
> > it's a risk, you should investigate and find how much you are risking.
Go
> to
> > stock market, buy some stocks, how would you? You would check history,
> > referrals, take advice from others who hold that stocks. It's always
good
> to
> > have referrals from previous clients, check their service history and
> verify
> > credentials. It's good to trust someone but trust only after
> > verification.Sometimes taking their word is not enough. This is true for
> any
> > outsourcing not only indians. If the providers are new, put the SLA
> mutually
> > agreeable to both parties so that you get what you want. We have some
> > agreements with our Vendors that penalizes them for not meeting
performance
> > agreements (We don't outsource but agreements are in place for vendors
who
> > we buy support contracts from).
> >
> > This way you can play safe and still have benefits of outsourcing.
> >
>
>
>
> Rowdy Yates
> --
> "the man who tried and failed miserably"
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Rowdy

Rowdy
Tue Apr 06 11:27:48 CDT 2004

me just trying to get out of netware administration. damn, i don't want to
administer microsoft products.

the other dept. i want to get into use RSA PKI. so i am lookng at certifying
and kissing their ass. :-)

i only support my lame users with their RSA card problems. so i have no
access to the products, manuals or support site.

90% of the time, users just forget to look at the little yellow sticky on the
back of the card where they wrote down their password.

so much for expensive PKI infrastructure deployemeny. eh? :-(

--+--

"Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in news:eqR2lI
$GEHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

> Friend will you share that photo of hot wife of your neighbour? lol. Just
> kidding.
>
> For RSA SecureID, I deployed RSA infrastructure for securing Aventis
Pasteur
> (that's where I work). This was from start to end, from design to implement
> to design support structure and conduct training. This covered US, Canada
> and France locations (which are 3 major with lot of smaller offices
> scattered all around). Cross-realm was integrated in design, dial-up for
> some users and VPN for others, all this was a big boost towards fully
> understanding product head to toe.
>
> Reading was another issue. I used guides (deployment guides, installation
> manuals, user guides) tha comes with RSA product and available from their
> support site.
>
> If you are geared towards RSA certification, I can help you out if you
want.
> Feel free to ask. Did I say I was trainer for MCSE classes for 5 years?
>



Rowdy Yates
--
"the man who tried and failed miserably"


Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Bhargav

Bhargav
Tue Apr 06 11:40:36 CDT 2004

PKI is great concept only if you can handle headache and support those users
who can't handle yellow stickies. Unless you got lucky like me where I have
to support the support staff (that's even more headache because support
staff is supposed to support users and can't do that properly).

I have access to RSA support since we always have gold support for any
product we purchase. We have to support global infrastructure so...

We did have real challanges deploying RSA as well but those days are gone
once it's in place. Now all we have is support staff not clearing pins and
setting token to new pin mode. Users yelling to get to 3rd level before they
talk to 1st level. Yeah, LIFE!


"Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@removethis.lycos.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94C37EB5CBA4Drowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16...
> me just trying to get out of netware administration. damn, i don't want to
> administer microsoft products.
>
> the other dept. i want to get into use RSA PKI. so i am lookng at
certifying
> and kissing their ass. :-)
>
> i only support my lame users with their RSA card problems. so i have no
> access to the products, manuals or support site.
>
> 90% of the time, users just forget to look at the little yellow sticky on
the
> back of the card where they wrote down their password.
>
> so much for expensive PKI infrastructure deployemeny. eh? :-(
>
> --+--
>
> "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in news:eqR2lI
> $GEHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:
>
> > Friend will you share that photo of hot wife of your neighbour? lol.
Just
> > kidding.
> >
> > For RSA SecureID, I deployed RSA infrastructure for securing Aventis
> Pasteur
> > (that's where I work). This was from start to end, from design to
implement
> > to design support structure and conduct training. This covered US,
Canada
> > and France locations (which are 3 major with lot of smaller offices
> > scattered all around). Cross-realm was integrated in design, dial-up for
> > some users and VPN for others, all this was a big boost towards fully
> > understanding product head to toe.
> >
> > Reading was another issue. I used guides (deployment guides,
installation
> > manuals, user guides) tha comes with RSA product and available from
their
> > support site.
> >
> > If you are geared towards RSA certification, I can help you out if you
> want.
> > Feel free to ask. Did I say I was trainer for MCSE classes for 5 years?
> >
>
>
>
> Rowdy Yates
> --
> "the man who tried and failed miserably"
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Rowdy

Rowdy
Tue Apr 06 11:48:38 CDT 2004

in some work "environments", one of the challenges with providing support,
is defining the lines between where 1st/2nd/3rd level support ends and
where the next level begins.

it's really hard to do that if you don't have a kick ass manager who is
tech savvy and on your side. otherwise you get kicked around left right and
center by any and every department that believes their individual needs
come before everyone elses on the company.

ah....such is life....

"Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in news:uL8mkX
$GEHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:

> PKI is great concept only if you can handle headache and support those
users
> who can't handle yellow stickies. Unless you got lucky like me where I
have
> to support the support staff (that's even more headache because support
> staff is supposed to support users and can't do that properly).
>
> I have access to RSA support since we always have gold support for any
> product we purchase. We have to support global infrastructure so...
>
> We did have real challanges deploying RSA as well but those days are gone
> once it's in place. Now all we have is support staff not clearing pins
and
> setting token to new pin mode. Users yelling to get to 3rd level before
they
> talk to 1st level. Yeah, LIFE!
>
>
> "Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@removethis.lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns94C37EB5CBA4Drowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16...
>> me just trying to get out of netware administration. damn, i don't want
to
>> administer microsoft products.
>>
>> the other dept. i want to get into use RSA PKI. so i am lookng at
> certifying
>> and kissing their ass. :-)
>>
>> i only support my lame users with their RSA card problems. so i have no
>> access to the products, manuals or support site.
>>
>> 90% of the time, users just forget to look at the little yellow sticky
on
> the
>> back of the card where they wrote down their password.
>>
>> so much for expensive PKI infrastructure deployemeny. eh? :-(
>>
>> --+--
>>
>> "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in news:eqR2lI
>> $GEHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:
>>
>> > Friend will you share that photo of hot wife of your neighbour? lol.
> Just
>> > kidding.
>> >
>> > For RSA SecureID, I deployed RSA infrastructure for securing Aventis
>> Pasteur
>> > (that's where I work). This was from start to end, from design to
> implement
>> > to design support structure and conduct training. This covered US,
> Canada
>> > and France locations (which are 3 major with lot of smaller offices
>> > scattered all around). Cross-realm was integrated in design, dial-up
for
>> > some users and VPN for others, all this was a big boost towards fully
>> > understanding product head to toe.
>> >
>> > Reading was another issue. I used guides (deployment guides,
> installation
>> > manuals, user guides) tha comes with RSA product and available from
> their
>> > support site.
>> >
>> > If you are geared towards RSA certification, I can help you out if you
>> want.
>> > Feel free to ask. Did I say I was trainer for MCSE classes for 5
years?
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> Rowdy Yates
>> --
>> "the man who tried and failed miserably"
>>
>
>



Rowdy Yates
--
"the man who tried and failed miserably"


Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Bhargav

Bhargav
Tue Apr 06 12:29:22 CDT 2004

Wish I can underline and bold here "kick ass manager who is tech savvy and
on your side".

"Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@removethis.lycos.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94C3823DF813Browdyyates2123@207.46.248.16...
> in some work "environments", one of the challenges with providing support,
> is defining the lines between where 1st/2nd/3rd level support ends and
> where the next level begins.
>
> it's really hard to do that if you don't have a kick ass manager who is
> tech savvy and on your side. otherwise you get kicked around left right
and
> center by any and every department that believes their individual needs
> come before everyone elses on the company.
>
> ah....such is life....
>
> "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in news:uL8mkX
> $GEHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:
>
> > PKI is great concept only if you can handle headache and support those
> users
> > who can't handle yellow stickies. Unless you got lucky like me where I
> have
> > to support the support staff (that's even more headache because support
> > staff is supposed to support users and can't do that properly).
> >
> > I have access to RSA support since we always have gold support for any
> > product we purchase. We have to support global infrastructure so...
> >
> > We did have real challanges deploying RSA as well but those days are
gone
> > once it's in place. Now all we have is support staff not clearing pins
> and
> > setting token to new pin mode. Users yelling to get to 3rd level before
> they
> > talk to 1st level. Yeah, LIFE!
> >
> >
> > "Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@removethis.lycos.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns94C37EB5CBA4Drowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16...
> >> me just trying to get out of netware administration. damn, i don't want
> to
> >> administer microsoft products.
> >>
> >> the other dept. i want to get into use RSA PKI. so i am lookng at
> > certifying
> >> and kissing their ass. :-)
> >>
> >> i only support my lame users with their RSA card problems. so i have no
> >> access to the products, manuals or support site.
> >>
> >> 90% of the time, users just forget to look at the little yellow sticky
> on
> > the
> >> back of the card where they wrote down their password.
> >>
> >> so much for expensive PKI infrastructure deployemeny. eh? :-(
> >>
> >> --+--
> >>
> >> "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in news:eqR2lI
> >> $GEHA.3880@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:
> >>
> >> > Friend will you share that photo of hot wife of your neighbour? lol.
> > Just
> >> > kidding.
> >> >
> >> > For RSA SecureID, I deployed RSA infrastructure for securing Aventis
> >> Pasteur
> >> > (that's where I work). This was from start to end, from design to
> > implement
> >> > to design support structure and conduct training. This covered US,
> > Canada
> >> > and France locations (which are 3 major with lot of smaller offices
> >> > scattered all around). Cross-realm was integrated in design, dial-up
> for
> >> > some users and VPN for others, all this was a big boost towards fully
> >> > understanding product head to toe.
> >> >
> >> > Reading was another issue. I used guides (deployment guides,
> > installation
> >> > manuals, user guides) tha comes with RSA product and available from
> > their
> >> > support site.
> >> >
> >> > If you are geared towards RSA certification, I can help you out if
you
> >> want.
> >> > Feel free to ask. Did I say I was trainer for MCSE classes for 5
> years?
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rowdy Yates
> >> --
> >> "the man who tried and failed miserably"
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Rowdy Yates
> --
> "the man who tried and failed miserably"
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by billyw

billyw
Tue Apr 06 13:22:45 CDT 2004

i did this with a financial sector company.
i moved all my dealings with them because they had outsourced and made it
plain why i was doing this.. actually it was yanks that were loosing their
jobs, but more or LESS the same :)
in the past couple of weeks i've recieved a letter asking if i would use
them again as they were reviewing the situation....
i just hope people dont get lazy and let this go away..
companies are getting rattled



"Typh0n" <unspecified> wrote in message
news:ucMc$w9GEHA.3664@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Interesting point this one, in the UK there have recently been a couple of
> large examples (although not widely publicised) of large banks and other
> companies, who have reversed outsourcing decisions after having spent
> fortunes on shifting aspects of their operations offshore. The reason for
> bringing the outsourced portions of the operation back in house in all
cases
> was cited as consumer demand.
>
> One bank stated that the loss in customer loyalty sent them a clear
message
> that although on paper the outsourcing concept saves significant amounts
in
> capital expenditure costs, the resulting impact from a disgruntled
customer
> base left them with little option but to U turn.
>
> So - god bless the consumer!!!
>
> :-)
>
>
> "kpg" <ipost@thereforeiam.com> wrote in message
> news:uuDIXp9GEHA.628@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > I realize that this is an international forum, but from an American
> consumer
> > standpoint I think companies can sell the 'made in America' aspect of
> > not outsourcing. Yes, consumers shop for price and companies that
> outsource
> > may do better on the bottom line, for now. But if a credit card theft
> > scandal
> > occurs it could paint all outsourced companies in a bad light.
Comapnies
> > may
> > find out that the svaings of outsourcing are costing them comsumer
> loyality.
> > Remember, we Americans are a very closed minded bunch.
> >
> > God Bless the USA.
> >
> > kpg
> >
> > "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in message
> > news:OGttgc9GEHA.2392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > I agree with Rowdey.
> > >
> > > It's not always that outsourcing is bad and it's not always you have
to
> > lose
> > > when you outsource. Yes, you have to be careful and screen your
> > outsourcing
> > > company before you outsource but isn't that what you have to do for
> > anything
> > > in life? Don't Credit companies screen you well before giving you
loan?
> If
> > > it's a risk, you should investigate and find how much you are risking.
> Go
> > to
> > > stock market, buy some stocks, how would you? You would check history,
> > > referrals, take advice from others who hold that stocks. It's always
> good
> > to
> > > have referrals from previous clients, check their service history and
> > verify
> > > credentials. It's good to trust someone but trust only after
> > > verification.Sometimes taking their word is not enough. This is true
for
> > any
> > > outsourcing not only indians. If the providers are new, put the SLA
> > mutually
> > > agreeable to both parties so that you get what you want. We have some
> > > agreements with our Vendors that penalizes them for not meeting
> > performance
> > > agreements (We don't outsource but agreements are in place for vendors
> who
> > > we buy support contracts from).
> > >
> > > This way you can play safe and still have benefits of outsourcing.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bhargav Shukla
> > > MCSE Windows Server 2003, MCSA Messaging, CCEA, RSA SecureID CSE
> > >
> > >
> > > "Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@remove.lycos.com> wrote in message
> > > news:Xns94C33DBF7ABA5rowdyyates2lycoscom@207.46.248.16...
> > > > The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
> > > > news:u0m370dsh10blce5quu9029gu28a6s4gpb@4ax.com:
> > > >
> > > > > <snip poster='David' source='microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd'>
> > > > >
> > > > >>My view is that companies should look inward before
> > > > >>looking outward when trying to rationalise their IT
> > > > >>departments, as this is where the real savings can be
> > > > >>made.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>David
> > > > >
> > > > > </snip>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > good post. but, unfortunatly, murphys un-written laws prevail:.
> > > >
> > > > the grass is always greener in the other guys cow field; and the
other
> > > > guys hot wife always looks hotter than you own.
> > > >
> > > > :-(
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Rowdy Yates
> > > > -------------------------------
> > > > Death to the Gypsy Kings!
> > > > -------------------------------
> > > > I am Against-TCPA
> > > > http://www.againsttcpa.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by billyw

billyw
Tue Apr 06 13:23:39 CDT 2004

some of us out source for indian companies :)

"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eCDAJ69GEHA.2768@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> i like india's spin "indian high-tech......jobs stolen from america"
>
>
> "kpg" <ipost@thereforeiam.com> wrote in message
> news:uuDIXp9GEHA.628@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > I realize that this is an international forum, but from an American
> consumer
> > standpoint I think companies can sell the 'made in America' aspect of
> > not outsourcing. Yes, consumers shop for price and companies that
> outsource
> > may do better on the bottom line, for now. But if a credit card theft
> > scandal
> > occurs it could paint all outsourced companies in a bad light.
Comapnies
> > may
> > find out that the svaings of outsourcing are costing them comsumer
> loyality.
> > Remember, we Americans are a very closed minded bunch.
> >
> > God Bless the USA.
> >
> > kpg
> >
> > "Bhargav Shukla" <contanoctme_sp@ambhargavs.com> wrote in message
> > news:OGttgc9GEHA.2392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > I agree with Rowdey.
> > >
> > > It's not always that outsourcing is bad and it's not always you have
to
> > lose
> > > when you outsource. Yes, you have to be careful and screen your
> > outsourcing
> > > company before you outsource but isn't that what you have to do for
> > anything
> > > in life? Don't Credit companies screen you well before giving you
loan?
> If
> > > it's a risk, you should investigate and find how much you are risking.
> Go
> > to
> > > stock market, buy some stocks, how would you? You would check history,
> > > referrals, take advice from others who hold that stocks. It's always
> good
> > to
> > > have referrals from previous clients, check their service history and
> > verify
> > > credentials. It's good to trust someone but trust only after
> > > verification.Sometimes taking their word is not enough. This is true
for
> > any
> > > outsourcing not only indians. If the providers are new, put the SLA
> > mutually
> > > agreeable to both parties so that you get what you want. We have some
> > > agreements with our Vendors that penalizes them for not meeting
> > performance
> > > agreements (We don't outsource but agreements are in place for vendors
> who
> > > we buy support contracts from).
> > >
> > > This way you can play safe and still have benefits of outsourcing.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bhargav Shukla
> > > MCSE Windows Server 2003, MCSA Messaging, CCEA, RSA SecureID CSE
> > >
> > >
> > > "Rowdy Yates" <rowdy_yates2@remove.lycos.com> wrote in message
> > > news:Xns94C33DBF7ABA5rowdyyates2lycoscom@207.46.248.16...
> > > > The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
> > > > news:u0m370dsh10blce5quu9029gu28a6s4gpb@4ax.com:
> > > >
> > > > > <snip poster='David' source='microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd'>
> > > > >
> > > > >>My view is that companies should look inward before
> > > > >>looking outward when trying to rationalise their IT
> > > > >>departments, as this is where the real savings can be
> > > > >>made.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>David
> > > > >
> > > > > </snip>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > good post. but, unfortunatly, murphys un-written laws prevail:.
> > > >
> > > > the grass is always greener in the other guys cow field; and the
other
> > > > guys hot wife always looks hotter than you own.
> > > >
> > > > :-(
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Rowdy Yates
> > > > -------------------------------
> > > > Death to the Gypsy Kings!
> > > > -------------------------------
> > > > I am Against-TCPA
> > > > http://www.againsttcpa.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by JaR

JaR
Tue Apr 06 14:20:33 CDT 2004

billyw opined, On 4/6/04 11:22 AM:

> i did this with a financial sector company.
> i moved all my dealings with them because they had outsourced and made it
> plain why i was doing this.. actually it was yanks that were loosing their
> jobs, but more or LESS the same :)
> in the past couple of weeks i've recieved a letter asking if i would use
> them again as they were reviewing the situation....
> i just hope people dont get lazy and let this go away..
> companies are getting rattled
>

Nice to know that at least _some_ of them are paying attention.

Well done!

Re: OT: Outsourcing story by billyw

billyw
Tue Apr 06 14:53:34 CDT 2004

by the way i'm goin to make your recipe this weekend

"JaR" <plentenospam@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
news:OJ8F9vAHEHA.3276@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> billyw opined, On 4/6/04 11:22 AM:
>
> > i did this with a financial sector company.
> > i moved all my dealings with them because they had outsourced and made
it
> > plain why i was doing this.. actually it was yanks that were loosing
their
> > jobs, but more or LESS the same :)
> > in the past couple of weeks i've recieved a letter asking if i would use
> > them again as they were reviewing the situation....
> > i just hope people dont get lazy and let this go away..
> > companies are getting rattled
> >
>
> Nice to know that at least _some_ of them are paying attention.
>
> Well done!



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by JaR

JaR
Tue Apr 06 15:06:25 CDT 2004

billyw opined, On 4/6/04 12:53 PM:

> by the way i'm goin to make your recipe this weekend
>
Make sure you got lots of cold beer!

Enjoy.

Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Consultant

Consultant
Tue Apr 06 15:35:16 CDT 2004

did you try mine?
di you add one of yours?

"billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in message
news:egIWWDBHEHA.1528@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> by the way i'm goin to make your recipe this weekend
>
> "JaR" <plentenospam@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
> news:OJ8F9vAHEHA.3276@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > billyw opined, On 4/6/04 11:22 AM:
> >
> > > i did this with a financial sector company.
> > > i moved all my dealings with them because they had outsourced and made
> it
> > > plain why i was doing this.. actually it was yanks that were loosing
> their
> > > jobs, but more or LESS the same :)
> > > in the past couple of weeks i've recieved a letter asking if i would
use
> > > them again as they were reviewing the situation....
> > > i just hope people dont get lazy and let this go away..
> > > companies are getting rattled
> > >
> >
> > Nice to know that at least _some_ of them are paying attention.
> >
> > Well done!
>
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by billyw

billyw
Tue Apr 06 15:39:28 CDT 2004

always do, always do

"JaR" <plentenospam@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
news:eZYilJBHEHA.2012@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> billyw opined, On 4/6/04 12:53 PM:
>
> > by the way i'm goin to make your recipe this weekend
> >
> Make sure you got lots of cold beer!
>
> Enjoy.



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by billyw

billyw
Tue Apr 06 15:39:55 CDT 2004

funnily i haven't tried yours :)

"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:O3MusaBHEHA.2408@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> did you try mine?
> di you add one of yours?
>
> "billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in message
> news:egIWWDBHEHA.1528@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > by the way i'm goin to make your recipe this weekend
> >
> > "JaR" <plentenospam@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
> > news:OJ8F9vAHEHA.3276@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > billyw opined, On 4/6/04 11:22 AM:
> > >
> > > > i did this with a financial sector company.
> > > > i moved all my dealings with them because they had outsourced and
made
> > it
> > > > plain why i was doing this.. actually it was yanks that were loosing
> > their
> > > > jobs, but more or LESS the same :)
> > > > in the past couple of weeks i've recieved a letter asking if i would
> use
> > > > them again as they were reviewing the situation....
> > > > i just hope people dont get lazy and let this go away..
> > > > companies are getting rattled
> > > >
> > >
> > > Nice to know that at least _some_ of them are paying attention.
> > >
> > > Well done!
> >
> >
>
>



Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Rowdy

Rowdy
Tue Apr 06 16:13:39 CDT 2004

is it chicken tika? i been looking for a good chicken tika recipe.

"billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in news:uu58PdBHEHA.2260
@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:

> funnily i haven't tried yours :)
>
> "Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:O3MusaBHEHA.2408@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> did you try mine?
>> di you add one of yours?
>>
>> "billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in message
>> news:egIWWDBHEHA.1528@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> > by the way i'm goin to make your recipe this weekend
>> >
>> > "JaR" <plentenospam@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
>> > news:OJ8F9vAHEHA.3276@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> > > billyw opined, On 4/6/04 11:22 AM:
>> > >
>> > > > i did this with a financial sector company.
>> > > > i moved all my dealings with them because they had outsourced and
> made
>> > it
>> > > > plain why i was doing this.. actually it was yanks that were loosing
>> > their
>> > > > jobs, but more or LESS the same :)
>> > > > in the past couple of weeks i've recieved a letter asking if i would
>> use
>> > > > them again as they were reviewing the situation....
>> > > > i just hope people dont get lazy and let this go away..
>> > > > companies are getting rattled
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Nice to know that at least _some_ of them are paying attention.
>> > >
>> > > Well done!
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>



Rowdy Yates
--
"the man who tried and failed miserably"


Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Kat

Kat
Tue Apr 06 16:16:00 CDT 2004

I'm sure *everyone* here has tried consultants cookies.

Consultant wrote:
> did you try mine?
> di you add one of yours?
>
> "billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in message
> news:egIWWDBHEHA.1528@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
>>by the way i'm goin to make your recipe this weekend
>>
>>"JaR" <plentenospam@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
>>news:OJ8F9vAHEHA.3276@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>billyw opined, On 4/6/04 11:22 AM:
>>>
>>>
>>>>i did this with a financial sector company.
>>>>i moved all my dealings with them because they had outsourced and made
>>
>>it
>>
>>>>plain why i was doing this.. actually it was yanks that were loosing
>>
>>their
>>
>>>>jobs, but more or LESS the same :)
>>>>in the past couple of weeks i've recieved a letter asking if i would
>
> use
>
>>>>them again as they were reviewing the situation....
>>>>i just hope people dont get lazy and let this go away..
>>>>companies are getting rattled
>>>>
>>>
>>>Nice to know that at least _some_ of them are paying attention.
>>>
>>>Well done!
>>
>>
>
>

--
Kat FORMER MCNGP #29

/* Get the facts first. You can distort them later. */


Re: OT: Outsourcing story by Rowdy

Rowdy
Tue Apr 06 16:28:52 CDT 2004

*rowdy high as a kite on hash cookie*

Kat <misty@No.SPAM.flynt.org> wrote in news:40731e0f$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca:

> I'm sure *everyone* here has tried consultants cookies.
>
> Consultant wrote:
>> did you try mine?
>> di you add one of yours?
>>
>> "billyw" <b@brainless.net> wrote in message
>> news:egIWWDBHEHA.1528@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>by the way i'm goin to make your recipe this weekend
>>>
>>>"JaR" <plentenospam@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
>>>news:OJ8F9vAHEHA.3276@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>>billyw opined, On 4/6/04 11:22 AM:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>i did this with a financial sector company.
>>>>>i moved all my dealings with them