MCSE: Is it worth it?

Hello all.
I am 31 today and I have my masters degree in computer science. I have only
this, I am finding it impossible to find a job, since all jobs require 5+
years experience for networking, programming, etc.
I am currently an adjunct teacher at FAU and the pay is not worth mentioning.
I was trying to get my phd, but am finding the qualifying exam Impossible.

Should I look into the MCSE more, or will I find I still need this exam and
experience.
Any help/comments would be great! Thanks, I live in Boca Raton, FL.

James
Mon Sep 12 14:57:03 CDT 2005

You will definately need education plus experience. But a lot of places
don't even consider you unless you have MSCE. It will definately not
gaurantee you a job, but it will open up some doors for you. Perhaps you
can see if your current employeer will pay for it? Then you've got nothing
to lose.


"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A1AA8A8F-22B5-42CA-A6C8-BFEBEDB9916C@microsoft.com...
> Hello all.
> I am 31 today and I have my masters degree in computer science. I have
> only
> this, I am finding it impossible to find a job, since all jobs require 5+
> years experience for networking, programming, etc.
> I am currently an adjunct teacher at FAU and the pay is not worth
> mentioning.
> I was trying to get my phd, but am finding the qualifying exam Impossible.
>
> Should I look into the MCSE more, or will I find I still need this exam
> and
> experience.
> Any help/comments would be great! Thanks, I live in Boca Raton, FL.

Neil
Mon Sep 12 15:04:10 CDT 2005

did you hear "=?Utf-8?B?bWljaGVsbGU=?="
<michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> say in
news:A1AA8A8F-22B5-42CA-A6C8-BFEBEDB9916C@microsoft.com:

> Should I look into the MCSE more, or will I find I still need this
> exam and experience.

experience is the chicken/egg thing. MCSE will only get you an interview
not a job. be willing to spend a few years doing crappy work if this is the
feild you want. If you are teaching now you might also want to look at
training after you have gotten a few years experience.

--
Neil MCNGP#30

- I used to be inept but, with practice, I became ept.

Neil
Mon Sep 12 15:04:57 CDT 2005

did you hear "James" <fake@email.com> say in
news:O7w2oT9tFHA.692@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

> You will definately need education plus experience. But a lot of
> places don't even consider you unless you have MSCE. It will
> definately not gaurantee you a job, but it will open up some doors for
> you. Perhaps you can see if your current employeer will pay for it?
> Then you've got nothing to lose.
>

AAAAK! I've agreed with James?!!!!

--
Neil MCNGP#30

- The more crap you put up with, the more crap you are going to get.

Ogre
Mon Sep 12 15:17:05 CDT 2005

michelle wrote:

> Should I look into the MCSE more, or will I find I still need this exam and
> experience.
> Any help/comments would be great! Thanks, I live in Boca Raton, FL.

An MCSE does not make up for the lack of experience. With out experience
you might as well look for work here: http://tinyurl.com/9rw9p (SFW)

Frisbee®
Mon Sep 12 15:19:04 CDT 2005

"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A1AA8A8F-22B5-42CA-A6C8-BFEBEDB9916C@microsoft.com...
> Hello all.
> I am 31 today and I have my masters degree in computer science. I have
> only
> this, I am finding it impossible to find a job, since all jobs require 5+
> years experience for networking, programming, etc.
> I am currently an adjunct teacher at FAU and the pay is not worth
> mentioning.
> I was trying to get my phd, but am finding the qualifying exam Impossible.
>
> Should I look into the MCSE more, or will I find I still need this exam
> and
> experience.
> Any help/comments would be great! Thanks, I live in Boca Raton, FL.

It has to be asked... R U Hawt?

--
Fris "Too tired to google lyrics to Michelle, My Belle" bee®, MCNGP #13

The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!

http://www.mcngp.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics

michelle
Mon Sep 12 15:18:05 CDT 2005


Thanks for the quick reply!
Yeah I am def stuck in chicken/egg cycle...not sure which I am :)

Anywaysss....any info on how much it costs? I've looked and there seems to
be a LOT of seminars about 15 days for $10K through private training,

what if I just want to get the book and do it myself?

Thx

michelle
Mon Sep 12 15:27:03 CDT 2005

I'm not sure I want to know how you have that site handy for posts...must be
having job trouble yourself maybe....

"Ogre" wrote:

> michelle wrote:
>
> > Should I look into the MCSE more, or will I find I still need this exam and
> > experience.
> > Any help/comments would be great! Thanks, I live in Boca Raton, FL.
>
> An MCSE does not make up for the lack of experience. With out experience
> you might as well look for work here: http://tinyurl.com/9rw9p (SFW)
>

MitchS
Mon Sep 12 15:31:16 CDT 2005

I just priced a package for work, and you can get all the CBT Nuggets, Sybex
books and Transcender practice tests (for final review after the frist 2
plus hands on) for about $2200 for all 8 tests required for MCSE +Security.
IMHO, that combined with a few hundred bucks worth of eqipment, the free MS
web resources, and a lot of time would be a lot better than a 2 week cram
session. Good luck in your endeaver.

P.S. If it were not for work paying for the training I would just get the
books and harware and work on my own. It has worked fine for me so far
anyway.


--
Mitch "yer such a Jameshole" S.
MCSA, A+, Net+, CCNA

"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:56C78A53-1DE8-46BD-8F6C-F856095F4A91@microsoft.com...
>
> Thanks for the quick reply!
> Yeah I am def stuck in chicken/egg cycle...not sure which I am :)
>
> Anywaysss....any info on how much it costs? I've looked and there seems
> to
> be a LOT of seminars about 15 days for $10K through private training,
>
> what if I just want to get the book and do it myself?
>
> Thx

Frisbee®
Mon Sep 12 15:31:01 CDT 2005

"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:56C78A53-1DE8-46BD-8F6C-F856095F4A91@microsoft.com...
>
> Thanks for the quick reply!

Hey! I made a quick reply, too, but you didn't answer MY question!

> Yeah I am def stuck in chicken/egg cycle...not sure which I am :)

Well if you're a chicken or an egg, forget about sending us GIFS.

> Anywaysss....any info on how much it costs? I've looked and there seems
> to
> be a LOT of seminars about 15 days for $10K through private training,

If you are NOT a chicken or an egg, I'm sure there's lots of regulars here
who would be glad to spend a week giving you "private training" for a lot
less than $10K.

> what if I just want to get the book and do it myself?

Oh, my... you tease.

Ogre
Mon Sep 12 15:34:23 CDT 2005

michelle wrote:
> I'm not sure I want to know how you have that site handy for posts...must be
> having job trouble yourself maybe....
>

Nope.. Things are on cruise control for the moment.

Thought of the link due to having my parents system serviced last week.

Frisbee®
Mon Sep 12 15:34:39 CDT 2005

"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B9965BC1-FFCC-4BD2-A40F-7283BF6B1245@microsoft.com...
> I'm not sure I want to know how you have that site handy for posts...must
> be
> having job trouble yourself maybe....

I don't think so. We get lots of people who post in here asking about how
to get a certification that is meant for people who already have experience,
but they don't have any experience. In other words, get some real IT
experience, then go for the cert. The way it was meant to be. MCSE is not
a training course, it's meant to verify the experience of people who are
already in IT. It is NOT a springboard into IT and it was never meant to
be.

Now... will you tell us if U R hawt? Please?

MitchS
Mon Sep 12 15:34:47 CDT 2005


> Fris "Too tired to google lyrics to Michelle, My Belle" bee®, MCNGP #13
Allow me.

Michelle, ma belle.
These are words that go together well,
My Michelle.

Michelle, ma belle.
Sont des mots qui vont tres bien ensemble,
Tres bien ensemble.

I love you, I love you, I love you.
That's all I want to say.
Until I find a way
I will say the only words I know that
You'll understand.

I need you, I need you, I need you.
I need to make you see,
Oh, what you mean to me.
Until I do I'm hoping you will
Know what I mean.

I love you.

I want you, I want you, I want you.
I think you know by now
I'll get to you somehow.
Until I do I'm telling you so
You'll understand.

I will say the only words I know that
You'll understand, my Michelle.

--
Mitch "yer such a Jameshole" S.
MCSA, A+, Net+, CCNA

michelle
Mon Sep 12 15:50:04 CDT 2005

would LOVE some real IT experience. Would LOVE to know how to get some,
since every job requires experience.
You make it sound so easy to get some it experience and that's it. Well
trust me its not, if you dont' have any experience, your screwed, so I
thought this certification might be a good idea,
And judging by your comments, your not interested in helping me. I don't
think this board is for people like u.

Thx

"Frisbee®" wrote:

> "michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:B9965BC1-FFCC-4BD2-A40F-7283BF6B1245@microsoft.com...
> > I'm not sure I want to know how you have that site handy for posts...must
> > be
> > having job trouble yourself maybe....
>
> I don't think so. We get lots of people who post in here asking about how
> to get a certification that is meant for people who already have experience,
> but they don't have any experience. In other words, get some real IT
> experience, then go for the cert. The way it was meant to be. MCSE is not
> a training course, it's meant to verify the experience of people who are
> already in IT. It is NOT a springboard into IT and it was never meant to
> be.
>
> Now... will you tell us if U R hawt? Please?
>
>
>

Frisbee®
Mon Sep 12 15:59:06 CDT 2005

"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:35B619C8-7037-4AAD-932F-57B16B438443@microsoft.com...
> would LOVE some real IT experience. Would LOVE to know how to get some,
> since every job requires experience.
> You make it sound so easy to get some it experience and that's it. Well
> trust me its not, if you dont' have any experience, your screwed, so I
> thought this certification might be a good idea,
> And judging by your comments, your not interested in helping me. I don't
> think this board is for people like u.

Michelle, chill out.

As I explained, certifications are MEANT for people who HAVE experience. It
is NOT a stepping stone for the IT field. Regardless of what you may have
heard or what you might think, it is possible to get a job in IT without
certification. It is also possible to DONATE TIME to organizations, usually
non-profit, like schools and libraries, and GET experience.

Next, this is not a board. This is USENET. You are accessing via a web
page, but it's not a board.

Finally, lighten up. You have a degree, which puts you WAY ahead of most of
the pack. Get a job using your degree. Do you know who many people would
like to be in your shoes? It's going to be a LOT easier for you to break
into IT with your degree. Then after you've been in IT for a while,
consider getting the certifications. Others do not have that luxury, you
do.

Now... R U HAWT OR NAWT?

furrfu

MitchS
Mon Sep 12 16:06:33 CDT 2005

"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:35B619C8-7037-4AAD-932F-57B16B438443@microsoft.com...
> would LOVE some real IT experience. Would LOVE to know how to get some,
> since every job requires experience.

You are almost correct. Almost every job requires experience. If you are
just starting out you'll most likely have to settl for entry level (ie. help
desk, pc technician, and the like). It may suck but that is the nature of
the beast. Focus on your goal and be prepared to pay your dues. When I got
in, I had A+, Net+, and MCSA. Started in a help desk position at under $10
an hour. 2 years later I got promoted to nw admin and the salary is almost
double. Now that I have some exp. I am working on MCSE. I would venture
that most employed IT people in this group can tell you similar stories.

> You make it sound so easy to get some it experience and that's it. Well
> trust me its not, if you dont' have any experience, your screwed, so I
> thought this certification might be a good idea,

It is by no means easy, it took me 8 months to land my first gig.
Persistence is the key.

> And judging by your comments, your not interested in helping me. I don't
> think this board is for people like u.

He is probly interested, he just needs to know if youre hawt. Come on,
throw the guy a bone.

--
Mitch "yer such a Jameshole" S.
MCSA, A+, Net+, CCNA

MitchS
Mon Sep 12 16:09:58 CDT 2005

"Frisbee®" <billLASTINIT@dasi-software.com> wrote in message
news:enU0Hz9tFHA.1264@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...


> Finally, lighten up. You have a degree, which puts you WAY ahead of most
> of the pack. Get a job using your degree. Do you know who many people
> would like to be in your shoes? It's going to be a LOT easier for you to
> break into IT with your degree. Then after you've been in IT for a while,
> consider getting the certifications. Others do not have that luxury, you
> do.

I couldn't agree more. It took 4 certs an Associates, bachelors, and half a
MBA to get the help desk job at the bank I work for. There is no such thing
as over qualified in this field when it comes to edumacashion.
--
Mitch "yer such a Jameshole" S.
MCSA, A+, Net+, CCNA

Neil
Mon Sep 12 16:11:07 CDT 2005

did you hear "=?Utf-8?B?bWljaGVsbGU=?="
<michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> say in
news:56C78A53-1DE8-46BD-8F6C-F856095F4A91@microsoft.com:

>
> Anywaysss....any info on how much it costs? I've looked and there
> seems to be a LOT of seminars about 15 days for $10K through private
> training,
>
> what if I just want to get the book and do it myself?

ok, after first getting the good chortle from Frisbee's reply, here is my
tupence. going to a series of courses vs doing it all self paced depends
very much on the person adn the current set of skills they posess. If you
believe you have excellent Windows XP Skills (for example) you may want
to just crack open the book (check e-bay) and go through the skills
tested listed at www.microsoft.com\learning. if you think you might need
more after blowing teh time and money on the book THEN look into the
course. If work pays for it however, grab it when you can.

now as for those private lessons, I am an MCT. Send me some pictures,
we'll negotiate a price ;)

--
Neil MCNGP#30

- It's a small world, so you gotta use your elbows a lot.

James
Mon Sep 12 16:06:14 CDT 2005

ah yes, the memories of working at convergys, doing internet tech
support....working to midnight all for $10/hr

"Thank you for calling Comcast, my name is James, can I please get the phone
number on your account starting with your area code"

"Oh I'm sorry, if you don't have a legit version of windows xp I can't help
you- click"

:)


"MitchS" <imnot@home.now> wrote in message
news:uxzVc39tFHA.2964@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:35B619C8-7037-4AAD-932F-57B16B438443@microsoft.com...
>> would LOVE some real IT experience. Would LOVE to know how to get some,
>> since every job requires experience.
>
> You are almost correct. Almost every job requires experience. If you are
> just starting out you'll most likely have to settl for entry level (ie.
> help desk, pc technician, and the like). It may suck but that is the
> nature of the beast. Focus on your goal and be prepared to pay your dues.
> When I got in, I had A+, Net+, and MCSA. Started in a help desk position
> at under $10 an hour. 2 years later I got promoted to nw admin and the
> salary is almost double. Now that I have some exp. I am working on MCSE.
> I would venture that most employed IT people in this group can tell you
> similar stories.
>
>> You make it sound so easy to get some it experience and that's it. Well
>> trust me its not, if you dont' have any experience, your screwed, so I
>> thought this certification might be a good idea,
>
> It is by no means easy, it took me 8 months to land my first gig.
> Persistence is the key.
>
>> And judging by your comments, your not interested in helping me. I don't
>> think this board is for people like u.
>
> He is probly interested, he just needs to know if youre hawt. Come on,
> throw the guy a bone.
>
> --
> Mitch "yer such a Jameshole" S.
> MCSA, A+, Net+, CCNA
>
>

Neil
Mon Sep 12 16:12:44 CDT 2005

did you hear "=?Utf-8?B?bWljaGVsbGU=?="
<michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> say in
news:B9965BC1-FFCC-4BD2-A40F-7283BF6B1245@microsoft.com:

> I'm not sure I want to know how you have that site handy for
> posts...must be having job trouble yourself maybe....

hang around here long enough and you will memorize a list for those not
worthy. I prefer to give out www.bkcareers.com myself...

--
Neil MCNGP#30

- REALITY.SYS Corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q)

Neil
Mon Sep 12 16:18:31 CDT 2005

did you hear "=?Utf-8?B?bWljaGVsbGU=?="
<michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> say in
news:35B619C8-7037-4AAD-932F-57B16B438443@microsoft.com:

> And judging by your comments, your not interested in helping me. I
> don't think this board is for people like u.
>

DANGNABIT FRIS! You better have not scared off another cute one. She
sounded cute...or she's a French guy...

--
Neil MCNGP#30

- And now back to your regulararly scheduled postings...

Wayne
Mon Sep 12 17:43:43 CDT 2005

If you haven't already done so, go to
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/default.asp and read through each
of the links and side bars.
I don't know any websites that advertise jobs in the US, so find (or ask)
the best ones and do a search on MCSE.
As to how to achieve it? That depends on how you learn: in a classroom or
self study. If you decide to self study, check amazon.com for second hand
books and start that way.
You'll need a decent pc and possibly a copy of Virtual PC so you can setup,
practice, break and rebuild operating systems.
Keep asking questions and we'll keep answering them, albeit with some flack
and smart arse comments thrown in for good measure :)

Wayne McGlinn
Brisbane, Oz
MCNGP Silver

"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A1AA8A8F-22B5-42CA-A6C8-BFEBEDB9916C@microsoft.com...
> Hello all.
> I am 31 today and I have my masters degree in computer science. I have
> only
> this, I am finding it impossible to find a job, since all jobs require 5+
> years experience for networking, programming, etc.
> I am currently an adjunct teacher at FAU and the pay is not worth
> mentioning.
> I was trying to get my phd, but am finding the qualifying exam Impossible.
>
> Should I look into the MCSE more, or will I find I still need this exam
> and
> experience.
> Any help/comments would be great! Thanks, I live in Boca Raton, FL.

/*
Mon Sep 12 23:10:16 CDT 2005

make contacts in the field that are willing to take on someone without
experience.

get experience.

then, you will find that you need a new job, and they will say 'you have too
much experience. we aren't looking for an expert'.

fock.

mongoloid s. bob
mcngp #46 | it wasn't a chicken or an egg, it was... | mcngp.com

"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:35B619C8-7037-4AAD-932F-57B16B438443@microsoft.com...
> would LOVE some real IT experience. Would LOVE to know how to get some,
> since every job requires experience.
> You make it sound so easy to get some it experience and that's it. Well
> trust me its not, if you dont' have any experience, your screwed, so I
> thought this certification might be a good idea,
> And judging by your comments, your not interested in helping me. I don't
> think this board is for people like u.
>
> Thx
>
> "Frisbee®" wrote:
>
>> "michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:B9965BC1-FFCC-4BD2-A40F-7283BF6B1245@microsoft.com...
>> > I'm not sure I want to know how you have that site handy for
>> > posts...must
>> > be
>> > having job trouble yourself maybe....
>>
>> I don't think so. We get lots of people who post in here asking about
>> how
>> to get a certification that is meant for people who already have
>> experience,
>> but they don't have any experience. In other words, get some real IT
>> experience, then go for the cert. The way it was meant to be. MCSE is
>> not
>> a training course, it's meant to verify the experience of people who are
>> already in IT. It is NOT a springboard into IT and it was never meant to
>> be.
>>
>> Now... will you tell us if U R hawt? Please?
>>
>>
>>

Leonid
Tue Sep 13 02:51:14 CDT 2005

"michelle" <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:35B619C8-7037-4AAD-932F-57B16B438443@microsoft.com...
> would LOVE some real IT experience. Would LOVE to know how to get some,
> since every job requires experience.
> You make it sound so easy to get some it experience and that's it. Well


I actually posted a few openings in Bay Area on craigslist for people like
you as well as more seasoned consultants and I'll be interviewing a few
people this week.

A cert is not a requirement, but I'll require whomever is chosen for the
openings to be certified at some level within first 30 days.

Contact your local Microsoft partners (you can look us up at
http://www.microsoft.com/smallbusiness/partner/vendorsearch.mspx) with your
aspirations.
--
Leonid S. Knyshov, CEO
Crashproof Solutions, LLC - http://www.crashproofsolutions.com
MCP Exchange 2003/Small Business Server 2003, CCNA, SCSA 8
Microsoft Small Business Specialist Partner

Frisbee®
Tue Sep 13 08:11:24 CDT 2005

"Neil" <guess!!!@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96CFAF172C893neilmcsegmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> did you hear "=?Utf-8?B?bWljaGVsbGU=?="
> <michelle@discussions.microsoft.com> say in
> news:B9965BC1-FFCC-4BD2-A40F-7283BF6B1245@microsoft.com:
>
>> I'm not sure I want to know how you have that site handy for
>> posts...must be having job trouble yourself maybe....
>
> hang around here long enough and you will memorize a list for those not
> worthy. I prefer to give out www.bkcareers.com myself...

I never clicked on the link, I assumed it was a tinyurl of that one.

Neil
Tue Sep 13 08:22:02 CDT 2005

did you hear "Frisbee®" <billLASTINIT@dasi-software.com> say in news:
#YpxnSGuFHA.1136@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:

> I assumed it was a tinyurl of that one.

burger king...

--
Neil MCNGP#30

- I have nothing against MS-DOS, stone knives, or bearskins.

Patrick
Tue Sep 13 21:07:59 CDT 2005

michelle wrote:
> Hello all.
> I am 31 today and I have my masters degree in computer science. I have only
> this, I am finding it impossible to find a job, since all jobs require 5+
> years experience for networking, programming, etc.
> I am currently an adjunct teacher at FAU and the pay is not worth mentioning.
> I was trying to get my phd, but am finding the qualifying exam Impossible.
>
> Should I look into the MCSE more, or will I find I still need this exam and
> experience.
> Any help/comments would be great! Thanks, I live in Boca Raton, FL.

Hi Michelle,

Realizing you probably ran for the hills yesterday, I'm still going
to post this. Putting aside the R U Hawt's and comments like that,
these people seem to know their stuff when it comes to this. So, I
would ask you to put it aside (unless of course you want to post a
pic;)) and take their advice seriously.

I've read this newsgroup off-and-on for the last six months or so,
and have come to realize that even in their antics, there lies a glimmer
of fact (or truth) that you can use. In the case of your post, the
glimmer is a bright light and the antics are the glimmer.

Good luck in your quest.

--
Patrick Dickey <pd1ckey43@removethis.msn.com>
http://www.pats-computer-solutions.com
Smile.. someone out there cares deeply for you.

bimba007
Tue Sep 13 22:37:52 CDT 2005


michelle wrote:
> [B]Hello all.
> I am 31 today and I have my masters degree in computer science.
> have only
> this, I am finding it impossible to find a job, since all job
> require 5+
>
> Hi michelle, I have about 10 years in IT even got to work for tw
> mayor computer comp.. never need he cert but the company that I
> working now require some cert A+ or MCSE..
>
> What I did was I when to amazon.com got the bundle from microsoft fo
> half the price and set up my 2 pcs.. and Im about to take the firs
> test.. you can save lots of money this way..
>
> Alv!n.. oh Im in west palm beach


-
bimba00
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