Comment on TestKing et al

Every time I take an exam I keep thinking of how in the hell do the likes of
Test King et al come up with the exact test questions for a particular exam.
I took a test on Saturday and once I knew I was going to pass, I tried to
memorize just one question to see if I could do it. Once I passed and left
the testing center, I tried to recreate the question and I could recreate it
in general terms but nothing close to verbatim. I am sure there are those
out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there must be
testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing lamers to
take in laptops and cameras.

JaR
Mon Jun 14 14:22:43 CDT 2004

OnceAgain wrote:
> Every time I take an exam I keep thinking of how in the hell do the likes of
> Test King et al come up with the exact test questions for a particular exam.
> I took a test on Saturday and once I knew I was going to pass, I tried to
> memorize just one question to see if I could do it. Once I passed and left
> the testing center, I tried to recreate the question and I could recreate it
> in general terms but nothing close to verbatim. I am sure there are those
> out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there must be
> testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing lamers to
> take in laptops and cameras.
>

Exactly. How much control do you think MS has of a testing center in,
say, Pakistan?

Plus, it's way easy to smuggle in a mini camera and take screenshots.

How would you suggest they prevent an individual with an eidetic memory
from simply going in and memorizing the whole thing?

The process is flawed from the get go.

It doesn't matter to MS, hell it's just another moneymaker for them.
People pay MS to flog their products to them. What a sweet deal!

JaR
Cynical Thug

Neil
Mon Jun 14 14:24:05 CDT 2004

"OnceAgain" <onceagain@nospamforyou.net> wrote in
news:#wbdNJkUEHA.3692@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:

> I am sure there are those
> out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there
> must be testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing
> lamers to take in laptops and cameras.

there might be. lots of crimes use an insider. I have to believe that the
level of detail would require screen shots...

my $0.02

--
Neil MCNGP #30
"you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

Consultant
Mon Jun 14 14:26:34 CDT 2004

personally, i find the cameras the most amusing. i mean really, do they
think we believe they are actually recording all day? pffffft


"JaR" <plentespam@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
news:%23ZxH4TkUEHA.716@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> OnceAgain wrote:
> > Every time I take an exam I keep thinking of how in the hell do the
likes of
> > Test King et al come up with the exact test questions for a particular
exam.
> > I took a test on Saturday and once I knew I was going to pass, I tried
to
> > memorize just one question to see if I could do it. Once I passed and
left
> > the testing center, I tried to recreate the question and I could
recreate it
> > in general terms but nothing close to verbatim. I am sure there are
those
> > out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there
must be
> > testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing lamers to
> > take in laptops and cameras.
> >
>
> Exactly. How much control do you think MS has of a testing center in,
> say, Pakistan?
>
> Plus, it's way easy to smuggle in a mini camera and take screenshots.
>
> How would you suggest they prevent an individual with an eidetic memory
> from simply going in and memorizing the whole thing?
>
> The process is flawed from the get go.
>
> It doesn't matter to MS, hell it's just another moneymaker for them.
> People pay MS to flog their products to them. What a sweet deal!
>
> JaR
> Cynical Thug

OnceAgain
Mon Jun 14 14:31:37 CDT 2004

I agree and it certainly would be very difficult to try and control. I
guess we continue to pounce on the losers that are paying for this crap and
degrading the whole program for those of us who study our @$$ off for these
exams.


"Neil" <neilmcse@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95089CAC0F4FFneilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> "OnceAgain" <onceagain@nospamforyou.net> wrote in
> news:#wbdNJkUEHA.3692@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:
>
> > I am sure there are those
> > out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there
> > must be testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing
> > lamers to take in laptops and cameras.
>
> there might be. lots of crimes use an insider. I have to believe that the
> level of detail would require screen shots...
>
> my $0.02
>
> --
> Neil MCNGP #30
> "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

The
Mon Jun 14 14:41:28 CDT 2004

> I am sure there are those
>out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there must be
>testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing lamers to
>take in laptops and cameras.

Yep camera's, mobiles, mini disk recorders, you name. You hardly have
to be James Bond 007, to 'copy' the questions.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

Neil
Mon Jun 14 15:04:42 CDT 2004

"Consultant" <consultant_mcngp@yahoo.com> wrote in news:egheCWkUEHA.3512
@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:

> personally, i find the cameras the most amusing. i mean really, do they
> think we believe they are actually recording all day? pffffft

they're suppose to have a tape (some places are just missing the VCR to go
with it <hehehehe>)

--
Neil MCNGP #30
"you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

Neil
Mon Jun 14 15:05:37 CDT 2004

The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
news:smvrc0dlp5v2u57m62ofvrfl1l6tfknmqk@4ax.com:

> Yep camera's, mobiles, mini disk recorders, you name. You hardly have
> to be James Bond 007, to 'copy' the questions.

well, then I guess that's why Testking is without a license to thrill...

--
Neil MCNGP #30
"you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

TechGeekPro
Mon Jun 14 15:31:17 CDT 2004

"JaR" <plentespam@nospamsofthome.net> wrote in message
news:#ZxH4TkUEHA.716@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> OnceAgain wrote:
> > Every time I take an exam I keep thinking of how in the hell do the
likes of
> > Test King et al come up with the exact test questions for a particular
exam.
> > I took a test on Saturday and once I knew I was going to pass, I tried
to
> > memorize just one question to see if I could do it. Once I passed and
left
> > the testing center, I tried to recreate the question and I could
recreate it
> > in general terms but nothing close to verbatim. I am sure there are
those
> > out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there
must be
> > testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing lamers to
> > take in laptops and cameras.
> >
>
> Exactly. How much control do you think MS has of a testing center in,
> say, Pakistan?
>
> Plus, it's way easy to smuggle in a mini camera and take screenshots.
>
> How would you suggest they prevent an individual with an eidetic memory
> from simply going in and memorizing the whole thing?
>
> The process is flawed from the get go.
>
> It doesn't matter to MS, hell it's just another moneymaker for them.
> People pay MS to flog their products to them. What a sweet deal!
>
> JaR
> Cynical Thug

They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification (CCIE)
and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I believe that would
go a long way towards raising it's value.

Neil
Mon Jun 14 15:36:01 CDT 2004

"TechGeekPro" <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:nuWdnco_ZumLllPdRVn-ug@adelphia.com:

> They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
> (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I
> believe that would go a long way towards raising it's value.

I like it. One for the premier cert. Just one thing, does MS have a Premier
Cert. I think they are all iffy. Would you say one for the MCSE, one for
the MCDBA and one for the MCSD?

--
Neil MCNGP #30
"you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

JaR
Mon Jun 14 15:42:16 CDT 2004

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:31:35 -0400, TechGeekPro extemporised:
>
> They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
> (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I believe
> that would go a long way towards raising it's value.

And they should require proof of experience for _any_ certification.
Letting inexperienced individuals "Certify" in a technology is not only
oxymoronic, it's insane.

JaR
Nuts Thug

OnceAgain
Mon Jun 14 15:50:55 CDT 2004

I absolutely agree with that. If they don't do that then I think they
should implement adaptive testing like Novell used to do (or maybe still
does). You were given anywhere from 15 to 40 questions. If you answered
them all correct you were done after 15 and for every one you got wrong
they added another question until you tested out on a particular section.
It required you to fully understand all sections or you didn't move on. I
also think MS should use a much wider question base with thousands of
questions to choose from instead of dozens then at least they make it harder
for TestKing (if that's what they want).

"Neil" <neilmcse@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9508A8DE13B80neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> "TechGeekPro" <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:nuWdnco_ZumLllPdRVn-ug@adelphia.com:
>
> > They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
> > (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I
> > believe that would go a long way towards raising it's value.
>
> I like it. One for the premier cert. Just one thing, does MS have a
Premier
> Cert. I think they are all iffy. Would you say one for the MCSE, one for
> the MCDBA and one for the MCSD?
>
> --
> Neil MCNGP #30
> "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

TechGeekPro
Mon Jun 14 15:56:09 CDT 2004

"Neil" <neilmcse@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9508A8DE13B80neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> "TechGeekPro" <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:nuWdnco_ZumLllPdRVn-ug@adelphia.com:
>
> > They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
> > (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I
> > believe that would go a long way towards raising it's value.
>
> I like it. One for the premier cert. Just one thing, does MS have a
Premier
> Cert. I think they are all iffy. Would you say one for the MCSE, one for
> the MCDBA and one for the MCSD?

Sure, sounds good, for the "premier" certs. Although, IMHO MCDBA is more
like a specalization. Maybe they just need to add the MCNBA (Microsoft
Certified Non Braindumping Assf***er)

> --
> Neil MCNGP #30
> "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

TechGeekPro
Mon Jun 14 15:59:32 CDT 2004

"JaR" <Nunyobidness@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.06.14.20.42.15.709479@softhome.net...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:31:35 -0400, TechGeekPro extemporised:
> >
> > They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
> > (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I believe
> > that would go a long way towards raising it's value.
>
> And they should require proof of experience for _any_ certification.
> Letting inexperienced individuals "Certify" in a technology is not only
> oxymoronic, it's insane.

Then the real oxymoron would be: "I can't get certified without experience,
can't get experience without being certified". Nice idea, but unfourtnately,
that just wouldn't work in the real world.

> JaR
> Nuts Thug

OnceAgain
Mon Jun 14 16:02:57 CDT 2004

Then you put the newbies in a catch 22 that they can't get certified until
they get experience and can't get experience until they get certified. I
think a layered approach similar to Cisco is needed. MCSA for those with
little to no experience and easier testing and MCSE/MCSD for those with
experience and a much more rigorous certification process with harder
written exams, proof of experience and then a hands on lab exam to prove
your mastery. There would be very little doubt.
"JaR" <Nunyobidness@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.06.14.20.42.15.709479@softhome.net...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:31:35 -0400, TechGeekPro extemporised:
> >
> > They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
> > (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I believe
> > that would go a long way towards raising it's value.
>
> And they should require proof of experience for _any_ certification.
> Letting inexperienced individuals "Certify" in a technology is not only
> oxymoronic, it's insane.
>
> JaR
> Nuts Thug

kpg
Mon Jun 14 16:12:05 CDT 2004

"OnceAgain" <onceagain@nospamforyou.net> wrote in message
news:eg1jGMlUEHA.2988@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> # Name resolution details: file://c:\temp\130348.htm (6/14/2004 4:09:24
PM) #
> Then you put the newbies in a catch 22 that they can't get certified until
> they get experience and can't get experience until they get certified. I
> think a layered approach similar to Cisco is needed. MCSA for those with
> little to no experience and easier testing and MCSE/MCSD for those with
> experience and a much more rigorous certification process with harder
> written exams, proof of experience and then a hands on lab exam to prove
> your mastery. There would be very little doubt.
> "JaR" <Nunyobidness@softhome.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.06.14.20.42.15.709479@softhome.net...
> > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:31:35 -0400, TechGeekPro extemporised:
> > >
> > > They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
> > > (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I
believe
> > > that would go a long way towards raising it's value.
> >
> > And they should require proof of experience for _any_ certification.
> > Letting inexperienced individuals "Certify" in a technology is not only
> > oxymoronic, it's insane.
> >
> > JaR
> > Nuts Thug
>
>

Sounds good.

Once again you should be in charge.

(Just so long as MS makes money in the process.)

kpg

Laura
Mon Jun 14 16:31:17 CDT 2004

circa Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:03:42 -0700, in
microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, OnceAgain
(onceagain@nospamforyou.net) said,
> I am sure there are those
> out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there must be
> testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing lamers to
> take in laptops and cameras.
>
There are. In Asia, in particular, from what I understand.

Laura
--
Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
-Oscar Wilde

The
Mon Jun 14 16:49:52 CDT 2004

>Then you put the newbies in a catch 22 that they can't get certified until
>they get experience and can't get experience until they get certified.

That has always been the case in IT, sad but true...

Making a good career in IT is about gaining experience; certification
has nothing to do with it, and it certainly won't (nor should it) help
'newbies' walk into the industry.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

JaR
Mon Jun 14 17:01:17 CDT 2004

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:02:57 -0700, OnceAgain extemporised:

> Then you put the newbies in a catch 22 that they can't get certified until
> they get experience and can't get experience until they get certified.

Hardly.

This is actually how auto mechanics are certified. If this was the case,
HR monkeys could not require certifications for entry level jobs. It would
make the certification actually mean something.

>I
> think a layered approach similar to Cisco is needed. MCSA for those with
> little to no experience and easier testing and MCSE/MCSD for those with
> experience and a much more rigorous certification process with harder
> written exams, proof of experience and then a hands on lab exam to prove
> your mastery. There would be very little doubt. "JaR"

Ok, fine, but this would cost an order of magnitude more, and where are
your 'newbies'?

JaR
Mon Jun 14 17:05:03 CDT 2004

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:59:50 -0400, TechGeekPro extemporised:

> "JaR" <Nunyobidness@softhome.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.06.14.20.42.15.709479@softhome.net...
>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:31:35 -0400, TechGeekPro extemporised:
>> >
>> > They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
>> > (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I
>> > believe that would go a long way towards raising it's value.
>>
>> And they should require proof of experience for _any_ certification.
>> Letting inexperienced individuals "Certify" in a technology is not only
>> oxymoronic, it's insane.
>
> Then the real oxymoron would be: "I can't get certified without
> experience, can't get experience without being certified". Nice idea, but
> unfourtnately, that just wouldn't work in the real world.
>

Yes it does work. Other fields do exactly that! If there was any value to
the certs, HR asshats wouldn't require them for entry level positions.

Training for a position is not equal to certification. The certification
process is not training for the position. The sooner this gets recognized,
the better.

OnceAgain
Mon Jun 14 17:20:03 CDT 2004


"JaR" <Nunyobidness@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.06.14.22.01.17.390597@softhome.net...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:02:57 -0700, OnceAgain extemporised:
>
> > Then you put the newbies in a catch 22 that they can't get certified
until
> > they get experience and can't get experience until they get certified.
>
> Hardly.
>
> This is actually how auto mechanics are certified. If this was the case,
> HR monkeys could not require certifications for entry level jobs. It would
> make the certification actually mean something.

Good point!
>
> >I
> > think a layered approach similar to Cisco is needed. MCSA for those
with
> > little to no experience and easier testing and MCSE/MCSD for those with
> > experience and a much more rigorous certification process with harder
> > written exams, proof of experience and then a hands on lab exam to prove
> > your mastery. There would be very little doubt. "JaR"
>
> Ok, fine, but this would cost an order of magnitude more, and where are
> your 'newbies'?
>
>
>
The newbies fall into the MCSA category. I would certainly pay more for a
certification that would classify me in a different league than the newbies.

TechGeekPro
Mon Jun 14 17:32:58 CDT 2004

"JaR" <Nunyobidness@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.06.14.22.05.03.545263@softhome.net...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:59:50 -0400, TechGeekPro extemporised:
>
> > "JaR" <Nunyobidness@softhome.net> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2004.06.14.20.42.15.709479@softhome.net...
> >> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:31:35 -0400, TechGeekPro extemporised:
> >> >
> >> > They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
> >> > (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I
> >> > believe that would go a long way towards raising it's value.
> >>
> >> And they should require proof of experience for _any_ certification.
> >> Letting inexperienced individuals "Certify" in a technology is not only
> >> oxymoronic, it's insane.
> >
> > Then the real oxymoron would be: "I can't get certified without
> > experience, can't get experience without being certified". Nice idea,
but
> > unfourtnately, that just wouldn't work in the real world.
> >
>
> Yes it does work. Other fields do exactly that! If there was any value to
> the certs, HR asshats wouldn't require them for entry level positions.

Asshats!? That's funny. I would tend to agree that experience could be
required for the "premier" certifications.

> Training for a position is not equal to certification. The certification
> process is not training for the position. The sooner this gets recognized,
> the better.

Beoweolf
Mon Jun 14 18:04:35 CDT 2004

This endless comparison to Cisco has nada to do with Microsoft
certification.

Also, everyone is conveniently forgetting or ignoring the value of the MCP
certifications. As a person becomes knowledgeable in each area of either
MCSE or MCSA, he can take and hopefully pass the appropriate MCP test.
People in this NG are almost as myopic as the HR spelling bee champions. If
you need a person for exchange, you don't need an MCSA or MCSE...you need
someone with exchange credentials an MCP, if you need someone to administer
a network that is already properly configured, you don't need an MCSE, you
need an MCSA. We look at MCSA as a Low rent MCSE, it should be...it is a
legitimate destination for those that can't, won't or aren't allowed (by
company policy) to certify that they can maintain a system, not necessarily
configure one. So learn to order ala carte, instead of rushing to the Buffet
or special of the day.

There must be a lot of bored MCSE's (based on the fact that all current MCSE
are "real", only the newbies are "Paper".), schlepping from desk to desktop
showing users how to logon (for the 10th time, today) or dragging cables
through the ceiling...occasionally the thought must come to mind...I busted
my wallet, my ass and wasted nights studying - for this?.
"OnceAgain" <onceagain@nospamforyou.net> wrote in message
news:OLqh%232lUEHA.1020@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
> "JaR" <Nunyobidness@softhome.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.06.14.22.01.17.390597@softhome.net...
> > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:02:57 -0700, OnceAgain extemporised:
> >
> > > Then you put the newbies in a catch 22 that they can't get certified
> until
> > > they get experience and can't get experience until they get certified.
> >
> > Hardly.
> >
> > This is actually how auto mechanics are certified. If this was the case,
> > HR monkeys could not require certifications for entry level jobs. It
would
> > make the certification actually mean something.
>
> Good point!
> >
> > >I
> > > think a layered approach similar to Cisco is needed. MCSA for those
> with
> > > little to no experience and easier testing and MCSE/MCSD for those
with
> > > experience and a much more rigorous certification process with harder
> > > written exams, proof of experience and then a hands on lab exam to
prove
> > > your mastery. There would be very little doubt. "JaR"
> >
> > Ok, fine, but this would cost an order of magnitude more, and where are
> > your 'newbies'?
> >
> >
> >
> The newbies fall into the MCSA category. I would certainly pay more for a
> certification that would classify me in a different league than the
newbies.
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Beoweolf
Mon Jun 14 18:21:22 CDT 2004

As much as the "West" complains about commies...China (et. al) is almost the
poster child of pure capitalism. Loose copyright enforcement, industrious
population, no health, no welfare, no appreciable unions, no environmental
restrictions. If you are a businessman, this could be heaven.

They put product out the door faster than TV movie of the week can dramatize
the latest crime or scandal. Greed, the great equalizer.
"Laura A. Robinson" <geekwench@snippit.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b37e33265e2115c98aa3f@msnews.microsoft.com...
> circa Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:03:42 -0700, in
> microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, OnceAgain
> (onceagain@nospamforyou.net) said,
> > I am sure there are those
> > out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there
must be
> > testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing lamers to
> > take in laptops and cameras.
> >
> There are. In Asia, in particular, from what I understand.
>
> Laura
> --
> Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
> -Oscar Wilde


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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The
Tue Jun 15 03:47:52 CDT 2004

>If you are a businessman, this could be heaven.

Until someone steals your patent.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

fygar
Tue Jun 15 07:50:06 CDT 2004

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:05:03 -0700, JaR <Nunyobidness@softhome.net>
wrote:

>> Then the real oxymoron would be: "I can't get certified without
>> experience, can't get experience without being certified". Nice idea, but
>> unfourtnately, that just wouldn't work in the real world.
>>
>
>Yes it does work. Other fields do exactly that! If there was any value to
>the certs, HR asshats wouldn't require them for entry level positions.
>
>Training for a position is not equal to certification. The certification
>process is not training for the position. The sooner this gets recognized,
>the better.


Unfortunatly, the cat is out of the bag already on that front. We can
thank 1999's .bomb IPO's and the Y2K problem for creating the spike in
demand for our talents. As a result, we have all these "MCSE" people
that can set permissions and add users but they can't fix broken
networks without reinstalling all the software because they don't know
enough theory to troubleshoot.

At some point it would be nice to just go ahead and finish devaluing
all of the certs as entry level and create a new test consisting of a
large design problem where you have to consider security, routing,
several services and throw in a nice mixed bag of workstations
generating various amount of traffic and different sensitivities to
network responsiveness.

Next, a large system troubleshooting problem simulating an 8am surge
in demand and 20 simultanious trouble calls with verying amounts of
information from my favorite "My computer said I can't login somethin'
somethin' somethin'" to calls with actual useful information. Let them
get the system running again and call it a pass.

They could break it up into a couple of 8 hour days and charge US$1000
or so to take it.

Butch

I
Tue Jun 15 07:45:19 CDT 2004

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:31:17 -0400, Laura A. Robinson
<geekwench@snippit.hotmail.com> wrote:

>circa Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:03:42 -0700, in
>microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, OnceAgain
>(onceagain@nospamforyou.net) said,
>> I am sure there are those
>> out there that can memorize questions but I have to think that there must be
>> testing sites that are on the payroll of TestKing and allowing lamers to
>> take in laptops and cameras.
>>
>There are. In Asia, in particular, from what I understand.
>
>Laura

I live and take exams in a major Asian captial city. Once I saw a
test taker with a digital camera taking photos of the screen. I told
the manager, who came and took the camera. He allowed the person to
continue taking the test. The guy leaned over and got another digtial
camera from his freind. I told the manager again, and again, he only
took the camera. With no more cameras, the guy takes out a note book
and starts writing the questions. I complained again, and this time,
the manager removed the guy and his buddy. He took them into the back
office and started yelling at them, but in my cynical mind, I think
manager probably only yelled at them for getting caught by an
foreigner, not for copying the exam.

Vigo
Tue Jun 15 09:49:49 CDT 2004

fygar <cpudoc10@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:69qtc0d48c8jo405fnqf061111h0rkns69@4ax.com:

> Next, a large system troubleshooting problem simulating an 8am surge
> in demand and 20 simultanious trouble calls with verying amounts of
> information from my favorite "My computer said I can't login somethin'
> somethin' somethin'" to calls with actual useful information.

To most accurately simulate a user environment, all calls should begin
with some (slight) variation on the questions, "is there something wrong
with the network?" or "is the Internet down?" The simulation should
also include a random number of "expert" users who perform their own
"troubleshooting" and brainwash/mislead a random percentage of the other
users with their "analysis."

For a true premier certification, the simulation should also include at
least one overseas development site in a non-English-speaking country,
to which administrator-level permissions have been granted, unbeknownst
to the testee, after hours by the conniving and bitchy company
"president". 3/5 of all interrogatory e-mails to the foreign site
should be ignored outright, 1/5 answered with irrelevant information,
and 1/5 contain replies with non-sequiteurs like, "I have click for
script no permissions" and "the file is no make for the good."

Perhaps I'm getting a little too context-specific.


--
http://www.vigo-alessi.com/images/products/1362.jpg

Neil
Tue Jun 15 09:55:45 CDT 2004

Vigo Breadcrumbs <vigo@breadcrumbbs.com> wrote in news:h0Ezc.94623
$0X2.4220478@twister.tampabay.rr.com:

> For a true premier certification, the simulation should also include at
> least one overseas development site in a non-English-speaking country,

or a redirected 4th level support to same and placed on 48 hour hold.

--
Neil MCNGP #30
"you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

fygar
Tue Jun 15 10:23:58 CDT 2004

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:49:49 GMT, Vigo Breadcrumbs
<vigo@breadcrumbbs.com> wrote:

>script no permissions" and "the file is no make for the good."
>
>Perhaps I'm getting a little too context-specific.

You sound bitter Vigo :)

...butch

lazyadmin
Tue Jun 15 11:43:48 CDT 2004

ROFL

MCNBA priceless!


"TechGeekPro" <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4Iudney-4qd0jVPdRVn-iQ@adelphia.com...
> "Neil" <neilmcse@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9508A8DE13B80neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
> > "TechGeekPro" <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote in
> > news:nuWdnco_ZumLllPdRVn-ug@adelphia.com:
> >
> > > They really should do like Cisco does for their premier certification
> > > (CCIE) and require that you pass a lab. At least for the MCSE. I
> > > believe that would go a long way towards raising it's value.
> >
> > I like it. One for the premier cert. Just one thing, does MS have a
> Premier
> > Cert. I think they are all iffy. Would you say one for the MCSE, one for
> > the MCDBA and one for the MCSD?
>
> Sure, sounds good, for the "premier" certs. Although, IMHO MCDBA is more
> like a specalization. Maybe they just need to add the MCNBA (Microsoft
> Certified Non Braindumping Assf***er)
>
> > --
> > Neil MCNGP #30
> > "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
>
>

TechGeekPro
Tue Jun 15 13:19:50 CDT 2004

"Vigo Breadcrumbs" <vigo@breadcrumbbs.com> wrote in message
news:h0Ezc.94623$0X2.4220478@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> fygar <cpudoc10@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:69qtc0d48c8jo405fnqf061111h0rkns69@4ax.com:
>
> > Next, a large system troubleshooting problem simulating an 8am surge
> > in demand and 20 simultanious trouble calls with verying amounts of
> > information from my favorite "My computer said I can't login somethin'
> > somethin' somethin'" to calls with actual useful information.
>
> To most accurately simulate a user environment, all calls should begin
> with some (slight) variation on the questions, "is there something wrong
> with the network?" or "is the Internet down?"

Or some of my personal favorites: "My Internet's broke", "I can't print my
floppy disk", and "Is that one of them thar computers with the Internet in
it?"

<snip>

> --
> http://www.vigo-alessi.com/images/products/1362.jpg

madeinJamaica
Tue Jun 15 15:34:20 CDT 2004

I like this alot. This could work.

"fygar wrote>
>
> Unfortunatly, the cat is out of the bag already on that front. We can
> thank 1999's .bomb IPO's and the Y2K problem for creating the spike in
> demand for our talents. As a result, we have all these "MCSE" people
> that can set permissions and add users but they can't fix broken
> networks without reinstalling all the software because they don't know
> enough theory to troubleshoot.
>
> At some point it would be nice to just go ahead and finish devaluing
> all of the certs as entry level and create a new test consisting of a
> large design problem where you have to consider security, routing,
> several services and throw in a nice mixed bag of workstations
> generating various amount of traffic and different sensitivities to
> network responsiveness.
>
> Next, a large system troubleshooting problem simulating an 8am surge
> in demand and 20 simultanious trouble calls with verying amounts of
> information from my favorite "My computer said I can't login somethin'
> somethin' somethin'" to calls with actual useful information. Let them
> get the system running again and call it a pass.
>
> They could break it up into a couple of 8 hour days and charge US$1000
> or so to take it.
>
> Butch