Hi,

I am trying to decide on a hardware configuration for a system. The system
includes one main DB (SQL Server 2000 / 2005), IIS and several very low
resources consuming applications.

The system is very simple - a client makes a request to a web service, the
web service runs a set of up to 2 SELECT queries and one UPDATE on two
specific tables in the DB, formats the data and returns a response to the
client. A heavy set of the UPDATE and INSERT is made on a daily basis at
off-pick hours. A small amount of INSERT occurs every now and then. The DB
itself contains only three tables which are heavily indexed. Most of the
queries are done on a single table which has about 2.5 million rows, and is
growing by about 20,000 rows daily.

The tricky part is the volume of requests to the IIS : we are expecting
about 200 millions requests per day. We have a caching mechanism implemented
in our web application which reduces access to the DB by about 25%.

The low resources applications would probably run on the same server as the
DB.

I originally thought of two servers : one 2*XEON with 4GB RAM running
Windows 2003 Standard x64 with SQL Server 2005 x64 for the DB - and a quad
of XEONS with 8GB RAM running Windows 2003 Enterprise x64 acting as the IIS.

Any recommendations and insights would be more than welcomed.

Thanks

Re: Hardware configuration for a system by jeff

jeff
Thu Mar 30 23:42:38 CST 2006

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:58:32 +0200, "Yair Nissan" <yair@yairnis.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am trying to decide on a hardware configuration for a system. The system
>includes one main DB (SQL Server 2000 / 2005), IIS and several very low
>resources consuming applications.
>
>The system is very simple - a client makes a request to a web service, the
>web service runs a set of up to 2 SELECT queries and one UPDATE on two
>specific tables in the DB, formats the data and returns a response to the
>client. A heavy set of the UPDATE and INSERT is made on a daily basis at
>off-pick hours. A small amount of INSERT occurs every now and then. The DB
>itself contains only three tables which are heavily indexed. Most of the
>queries are done on a single table which has about 2.5 million rows, and is
>growing by about 20,000 rows daily.
>
>The tricky part is the volume of requests to the IIS : we are expecting
>about 200 millions requests per day. We have a caching mechanism implemented
>in our web application which reduces access to the DB by about 25%.
>
>The low resources applications would probably run on the same server as the
>DB.
>
>I originally thought of two servers : one 2*XEON with 4GB RAM running
>Windows 2003 Standard x64 with SQL Server 2005 x64 for the DB - and a quad
>of XEONS with 8GB RAM running Windows 2003 Enterprise x64 acting as the IIS.
>
>Any recommendations and insights would be more than welcomed.

200 million requests a day means you'll want aclustered web farm
fronting a SQL cluster. Not a single box or maybe two.

Jeff

Re: Hardware configuration for a system by Ken

Ken
Fri Mar 31 04:51:37 CST 2006

200,000,000 requests/day is over 2300 requests/sec (assuming that the load
is averaged out exactly per second).

At that point, I would suggest that you look at having several servers in
the configuration you describe (Dual Xeon, 4GB of RAM), and load balance
them. Depending on how long it takes to update the DB, you may be able to
get away with 4 or so NLB balanced boxes.

Cheers
Ken

"Yair Nissan" <yair@yairnis.com> wrote in message
news:OPmCZg%23UGHA.5468@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
: Hi,
:
: I am trying to decide on a hardware configuration for a system. The system
: includes one main DB (SQL Server 2000 / 2005), IIS and several very low
: resources consuming applications.
:
: The system is very simple - a client makes a request to a web service, the
: web service runs a set of up to 2 SELECT queries and one UPDATE on two
: specific tables in the DB, formats the data and returns a response to the
: client. A heavy set of the UPDATE and INSERT is made on a daily basis at
: off-pick hours. A small amount of INSERT occurs every now and then. The DB
: itself contains only three tables which are heavily indexed. Most of the
: queries are done on a single table which has about 2.5 million rows, and
is
: growing by about 20,000 rows daily.
:
: The tricky part is the volume of requests to the IIS : we are expecting
: about 200 millions requests per day. We have a caching mechanism
implemented
: in our web application which reduces access to the DB by about 25%.
:
: The low resources applications would probably run on the same server as
the
: DB.
:
: I originally thought of two servers : one 2*XEON with 4GB RAM running
: Windows 2003 Standard x64 with SQL Server 2005 x64 for the DB - and a quad
: of XEONS with 8GB RAM running Windows 2003 Enterprise x64 acting as the
IIS.
:
: Any recommendations and insights would be more than welcomed.
:
: Thanks
:
:



Re: Hardware configuration for a system by Juan

Juan
Fri Mar 31 08:17:54 CST 2006

Yair,

Please fix your computer's date.
You are future-posting by one month.

Re the info you request :

The info given to you by Ken Schaefer is very accurate.




Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
aspnetfaq.com : http://www.aspnetfaq.com/
asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
===================================
"Yair Nissan" <yair@yairnis.com> wrote in message news:%23j$XtyJVGHA.4740@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>
> "Jeff Cochran" <jeff.nospam@zina.com> wrote in message
> news:442dc112.1859276656@msnews.microsoft.com...
>> On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:58:32 +0200, "Yair Nissan" <yair@yairnis.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >I am trying to decide on a hardware configuration for a system. The
> system
>> >includes one main DB (SQL Server 2000 / 2005), IIS and several very low
>> >resources consuming applications.
>> >
>> >The system is very simple - a client makes a request to a web service,
> the
>> >web service runs a set of up to 2 SELECT queries and one UPDATE on two
>> >specific tables in the DB, formats the data and returns a response to the
>> >client. A heavy set of the UPDATE and INSERT is made on a daily basis at
>> >off-pick hours. A small amount of INSERT occurs every now and then. The
> DB
>> >itself contains only three tables which are heavily indexed. Most of the
>> >queries are done on a single table which has about 2.5 million rows, and
> is
>> >growing by about 20,000 rows daily.
>> >
>> >The tricky part is the volume of requests to the IIS : we are expecting
>> >about 200 millions requests per day. We have a caching mechanism
> implemented
>> >in our web application which reduces access to the DB by about 25%.
>> >
>> >The low resources applications would probably run on the same server as
> the
>> >DB.
>> >
>> >I originally thought of two servers : one 2*XEON with 4GB RAM running
>> >Windows 2003 Standard x64 with SQL Server 2005 x64 for the DB - and a
> quad
>> >of XEONS with 8GB RAM running Windows 2003 Enterprise x64 acting as the
> IIS.
>> >
>> >Any recommendations and insights would be more than welcomed.
>>
>> 200 million requests a day means you'll want aclustered web farm
>> fronting a SQL cluster. Not a single box or maybe two.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> I agree with you Jeff. We have our own servers farm which does all the
> processing tasks for all the customers and updates them, but I just need to
> estimate minimum requirements for an installation at a customer's servers
> farm. This is a big customer since so far all of our customers had up to 10
> millions daily requests, for which one dual Xeon with 4GB Ram running
> Windows 2003 Standard 32 bit were more than stuffiest for both sql server
> and web server.
>
> Yair
>
>
>



Re: Hardware configuration for a system by Yair

Yair
Sun Apr 02 10:32:27 CDT 2006

Thanks Ken,

I prefer using NLB rather than clustering due to bad experience in the past,
but once again, I just needed to give a customer "minimum requirements" for
the system so that he can approve it with his board.

I managed to pass a combination of your ideas at the customer's board
meeting and now it's time to start the real work ...

Thanks for your help.

Yair


"Ken Schaefer" <kenREMOVE@THISadOpenStatic.com> wrote in message
news:OcqHXELVGHA.6084@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> 200,000,000 requests/day is over 2300 requests/sec (assuming that the load
> is averaged out exactly per second).
>
> At that point, I would suggest that you look at having several servers in
> the configuration you describe (Dual Xeon, 4GB of RAM), and load balance
> them. Depending on how long it takes to update the DB, you may be able to
> get away with 4 or so NLB balanced boxes.
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
> "Yair Nissan" <yair@yairnis.com> wrote in message
> news:OPmCZg%23UGHA.5468@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> : Hi,
> :
> : I am trying to decide on a hardware configuration for a system. The
system
> : includes one main DB (SQL Server 2000 / 2005), IIS and several very low
> : resources consuming applications.
> :
> : The system is very simple - a client makes a request to a web service,
the
> : web service runs a set of up to 2 SELECT queries and one UPDATE on two
> : specific tables in the DB, formats the data and returns a response to
the
> : client. A heavy set of the UPDATE and INSERT is made on a daily basis at
> : off-pick hours. A small amount of INSERT occurs every now and then. The
DB
> : itself contains only three tables which are heavily indexed. Most of the
> : queries are done on a single table which has about 2.5 million rows, and
> is
> : growing by about 20,000 rows daily.
> :
> : The tricky part is the volume of requests to the IIS : we are expecting
> : about 200 millions requests per day. We have a caching mechanism
> implemented
> : in our web application which reduces access to the DB by about 25%.
> :
> : The low resources applications would probably run on the same server as
> the
> : DB.
> :
> : I originally thought of two servers : one 2*XEON with 4GB RAM running
> : Windows 2003 Standard x64 with SQL Server 2005 x64 for the DB - and a
quad
> : of XEONS with 8GB RAM running Windows 2003 Enterprise x64 acting as the
> IIS.
> :
> : Any recommendations and insights would be more than welcomed.
> :
> : Thanks
> :
> :
>
>



Re: Hardware configuration for a system by Yair

Yair
Sun Apr 30 07:27:57 CDT 2006

What would you propose except for more memory for sql server? Which
configuration would you recommend for the web server?

"dwb" <parc_erom_tey@crossdata.co.uk> wrote in message
news:egwiJJ$UGHA.5884@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Yair Nissan wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am trying to decide on a hardware configuration for a system. The
> > system includes one main DB (SQL Server 2000 / 2005), IIS and several
> > very low resources consuming applications.
> >
> > The system is very simple - a client makes a request to a web
> > service, the web service runs a set of up to 2 SELECT queries and one
> > UPDATE on two specific tables in the DB, formats the data and returns
> > a response to the client. A heavy set of the UPDATE and INSERT is
> > made on a daily basis at off-pick hours. A small amount of INSERT
> > occurs every now and then. The DB itself contains only three tables
> > which are heavily indexed. Most of the queries are done on a single
> > table which has about 2.5 million rows, and is growing by about
> > 20,000 rows daily.
> >
> > The tricky part is the volume of requests to the IIS : we are
> > expecting about 200 millions requests per day. We have a caching
> > mechanism implemented in our web application which reduces access to
> > the DB by about 25%.
> >
> > The low resources applications would probably run on the same server
> > as the DB.
> >
> > I originally thought of two servers : one 2*XEON with 4GB RAM running
> > Windows 2003 Standard x64 with SQL Server 2005 x64 for the DB - and a
> > quad of XEONS with 8GB RAM running Windows 2003 Enterprise x64 acting
> > as the IIS.
> >
> > Any recommendations and insights would be more than welcomed.
>
> My initial thought would be you might get better performance having the
> SQL box as the higher spec - especially on the memory front - the more
> SQL has in memory the faster it's going to be.
>
> The IIS box (but not IIS) *might* be a bottle neck, but it depends on
> how complex the formatting etc you mention is.



Re: Hardware configuration for a system by Yair

Yair
Sun Apr 30 08:32:30 CDT 2006

First, thanks for your replies dwb, I really appreciate it :)

"dwb" <parc_erom_tey@crossdata.co.uk> wrote in message
news:OxoYVo$UGHA.5808@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Yair Nissan wrote:
>
> > What would you propose except for more memory for sql server? Which
> > configuration would you recommend for the web server?
>
> Well, it's kind of a "how long is a piece of string" question isn't it
> - buy the best your budget allows.


I was hoping to avoid this answer since everything is this business is "the
best your budget allows" ....

I'll try to rephrase my question again, for such a system, what would you
consider to be a sufficient configuration, with the lowest cost?

The system was originally written using .Net framework 1.1 and SQL Server
2000. We made some patches to convert it to a .Net 64 bit and SQL Server
2005 (fully tested and working), so as a matter of fact we don't have to
use the 64-bit technology, I just thought that since we're setting it up
from scratch (we are going to buy the new servers) we should use the latest
technology possible, plus I prefer the process memory management of the 64
bit server. If there's a 32 bit configuration which would be suffient and
much cheaper we would go for it ...

>
> I can't honestly give you an exact answer - it depends on how your
> application works - ie is it CPU intensive, or memory intensive - you
> mention it caching requests, so presumably that puts some load back
> onto the IIS server to check and maintain that cache.
>
> For SQL , more memory is always going to help - for IIS you may never
> use all the memory but get bogged down on the CPU.
>
> Have you been able to do any performance testing on your environment so
> far - perhaps in development or a test area to get a feel for how many
> requests it can handle and where the issues start to show themselves?
> >
> > "dwb" <parc_erom_tey@crossdata.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:egwiJJ$UGHA.5884@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > Yair Nissan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I am trying to decide on a hardware configuration for a system.
> > > > The system includes one main DB (SQL Server 2000 / 2005), IIS and
> > > > several very low resources consuming applications.
> > > >
> > > > The system is very simple - a client makes a request to a web
> > > > service, the web service runs a set of up to 2 SELECT queries and
> > > > one UPDATE on two specific tables in the DB, formats the data and
> > > > returns a response to the client. A heavy set of the UPDATE and
> > > > INSERT is made on a daily basis at off-pick hours. A small amount
> > > > of INSERT occurs every now and then. The DB itself contains only
> > > > three tables which are heavily indexed. Most of the queries are
> > > > done on a single table which has about 2.5 million rows, and is
> > > > growing by about 20,000 rows daily.
> > > >
> > > > The tricky part is the volume of requests to the IIS : we are
> > > > expecting about 200 millions requests per day. We have a caching
> > > > mechanism implemented in our web application which reduces access
> > > > to the DB by about 25%.
> > > >
> > > > The low resources applications would probably run on the same
> > > > server as the DB.
> > > >
> > > > I originally thought of two servers : one 2*XEON with 4GB RAM
> > > > running Windows 2003 Standard x64 with SQL Server 2005 x64 for
> > > > the DB - and a quad of XEONS with 8GB RAM running Windows 2003
> > > > Enterprise x64 acting as the IIS.
> > > >
> > > > Any recommendations and insights would be more than welcomed.
> > >
> > > My initial thought would be you might get better performance having
> > > the SQL box as the higher spec - especially on the memory front -
> > > the more SQL has in memory the faster it's going to be.
> > >
> > > The IIS box (but not IIS) might be a bottle neck, but it depends on
> > > how complex the formatting etc you mention is.
>
>
>
> --
>



Re: Hardware configuration for a system by Yair

Yair
Mon May 01 03:31:11 CDT 2006


"Jeff Cochran" <jeff.nospam@zina.com> wrote in message
news:442dc112.1859276656@msnews.microsoft.com...
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:58:32 +0200, "Yair Nissan" <yair@yairnis.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >I am trying to decide on a hardware configuration for a system. The
system
> >includes one main DB (SQL Server 2000 / 2005), IIS and several very low
> >resources consuming applications.
> >
> >The system is very simple - a client makes a request to a web service,
the
> >web service runs a set of up to 2 SELECT queries and one UPDATE on two
> >specific tables in the DB, formats the data and returns a response to the
> >client. A heavy set of the UPDATE and INSERT is made on a daily basis at
> >off-pick hours. A small amount of INSERT occurs every now and then. The
DB
> >itself contains only three tables which are heavily indexed. Most of the
> >queries are done on a single table which has about 2.5 million rows, and
is
> >growing by about 20,000 rows daily.
> >
> >The tricky part is the volume of requests to the IIS : we are expecting
> >about 200 millions requests per day. We have a caching mechanism
implemented
> >in our web application which reduces access to the DB by about 25%.
> >
> >The low resources applications would probably run on the same server as
the
> >DB.
> >
> >I originally thought of two servers : one 2*XEON with 4GB RAM running
> >Windows 2003 Standard x64 with SQL Server 2005 x64 for the DB - and a
quad
> >of XEONS with 8GB RAM running Windows 2003 Enterprise x64 acting as the
IIS.
> >
> >Any recommendations and insights would be more than welcomed.
>
> 200 million requests a day means you'll want aclustered web farm
> fronting a SQL cluster. Not a single box or maybe two.
>
> Jeff

I agree with you Jeff. We have our own servers farm which does all the
processing tasks for all the customers and updates them, but I just need to
estimate minimum requirements for an installation at a customer's servers
farm. This is a big customer since so far all of our customers had up to 10
millions daily requests, for which one dual Xeon with 4GB Ram running
Windows 2003 Standard 32 bit were more than stuffiest for both sql server
and web server.

Yair