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Dear Microsoft,

=20

The current "Windows.Forms" controls included in the .Net Framework are =
good, but in many ways they're pretty basic, and I think it's time that =
you take Windows.Forms to the next level. I really think that the menus =
and toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net Framework =
as standard controls in the next release of the Framework and VS.NET, =
codenamed "Visual Studio .Net for Yukon." This would truly take the =
.Net to the next level! Thanks for listening to this, and let me know =
what you think.

=20

Jason

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C33F79.5117E8E0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:o =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:st1 =
=3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT size=3D3>Dear=20
Microsoft,<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT size=3D3>The current =
=93Windows.Forms=94 controls=20
included in the .Net Framework are good, but in many ways they=92re =
pretty basic,=20
and I think it=92s time that you take Windows.Forms to the next =
level.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>I really think that the menus =
and=20
toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net Framework as =
standard=20
controls in the next release of the Framework and VS.NET, codenamed =
=93Visual=20
Studio .Net for <st1:State w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">Yukon</st1:place></st1:State>.=94<SPAN =
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;=20
</SPAN>This would truly take the .Net to the next level!<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Thanks for listening to this, =
and let me=20
know what you think.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT=20
size=3D3>Jason<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></H=
TML>

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Re: MS, please add Office 2k3 Menus/Toolbars to the Framework by K

K
Tue Jul 08 18:09:12 CDT 2003

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this petition gets my signature
"Jason Webb" <jasonw15@msn.com> wrote in message =
news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Dear Microsoft,

=20

The current "Windows.Forms" controls included in the .Net Framework =
are good, but in many ways they're pretty basic, and I think it's time =
that you take Windows.Forms to the next level. I really think that the =
menus and toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net =
Framework as standard controls in the next release of the Framework and =
VS.NET, codenamed "Visual Studio .Net for Yukon." This would truly take =
the .Net to the next level! Thanks for listening to this, and let me =
know what you think.

=20

Jason

------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C34584.6A7AFAF0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:o =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:st1 =
=3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this petition gets my =
signature</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Jason Webb" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:jasonw15@msn.com">jasonw15@msn.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl">news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432=
@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl</A>...</DIV><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT size=3D3>Dear=20
Microsoft,<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT size=3D3>The current =
=93Windows.Forms=94 controls=20
included in the .Net Framework are good, but in many ways they=92re =
pretty=20
basic, and I think it=92s time that you take Windows.Forms to the next =

level.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>I really think =
that the=20
menus and toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net =
Framework=20
as standard controls in the next release of the Framework and VS.NET,=20
codenamed =93Visual Studio .Net for <st1:State w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">Yukon</st1:place></st1:State>.=94<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>This would truly take the =
.Net to the=20
next level!<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Thanks for =
listening=20
to this, and let me know what you think.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT=20
=
size=3D3>Jason<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FO=
NT></BODY></HTML>

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Re: MS, please add Office 2k3 Menus/Toolbars to the Framework by Ori

Ori
Tue Jul 08 20:26:00 CDT 2003

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Mine too...
"K. Shier" <ks4hire@spammersGetHitWithABat.yah00.com> wrote in message =
news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
this petition gets my signature
"Jason Webb" <jasonw15@msn.com> wrote in message =
news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Dear Microsoft,

=20

The current "Windows.Forms" controls included in the .Net Framework =
are good, but in many ways they're pretty basic, and I think it's time =
that you take Windows.Forms to the next level. I really think that the =
menus and toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net =
Framework as standard controls in the next release of the Framework and =
VS.NET, codenamed "Visual Studio .Net for Yukon." This would truly take =
the .Net to the next level! Thanks for listening to this, and let me =
know what you think.

=20

Jason

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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:o =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:st1 =
=3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mine too...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"K. Shier" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ks4hire@spammersGetHitWithABat.yah00.com">ks4hire@spammers=
GetHitWithABat.yah00.com</A>&gt;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl">news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232=
@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this petition gets my =
signature</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Jason Webb" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:jasonw15@msn.com">jasonw15@msn.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl">news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432=
@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl</A>...</DIV><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT size=3D3>Dear=20
Microsoft,<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT size=3D3>The current =
=93Windows.Forms=94=20
controls included in the .Net Framework are good, but in many ways =
they=92re=20
pretty basic, and I think it=92s time that you take Windows.Forms to =
the next=20
level.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>I really think =
that the=20
menus and toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net =
Framework=20
as standard controls in the next release of the Framework and =
VS.NET,=20
codenamed =93Visual Studio .Net for <st1:State =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">Yukon</st1:place></st1:State>.=94<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>This would truly take the =
.Net to=20
the next level!<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN>Thanks for=20
listening to this, and let me know what you think.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT=20
=
size=3D3>Jason<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Re: MS, please add Office 2k3 Menus/Toolbars to the Framework by Jeroen

Jeroen
Wed Jul 09 04:53:59 CDT 2003

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And mine...
"Ori" <ori.millo@fujitsu.com.au> wrote in message =
news:%23dPbNkbRDHA.1896@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Mine too...
"K. Shier" <ks4hire@spammersGetHitWithABat.yah00.com> wrote in =
message news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
this petition gets my signature
"Jason Webb" <jasonw15@msn.com> wrote in message =
news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Dear Microsoft,

=20

The current "Windows.Forms" controls included in the .Net =
Framework are good, but in many ways they're pretty basic, and I think =
it's time that you take Windows.Forms to the next level. I really think =
that the menus and toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the =
.Net Framework as standard controls in the next release of the Framework =
and VS.NET, codenamed "Visual Studio .Net for Yukon." This would truly =
take the .Net to the next level! Thanks for listening to this, and let =
me know what you think.

=20

Jason

------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C34610.C88D7280
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:o =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:st1 =
=3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And mine...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Ori" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ori.millo@fujitsu.com.au">ori.millo@fujitsu.com.au</A>&gt;=
wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:%23dPbNkbRDHA.1896@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl">news:%23dPbNkbRDHA.=
1896@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mine too...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"K. Shier" &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ks4hire@spammersGetHitWithABat.yah00.com">ks4hire@spammers=
GetHitWithABat.yah00.com</A>&gt;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl">news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232=
@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this petition gets my =
signature</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Jason Webb" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:jasonw15@msn.com">jasonw15@msn.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl">news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432=
@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl</A>...</DIV><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT size=3D3>Dear=20
Microsoft,<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT size=3D3>The current =
=93Windows.Forms=94=20
controls included in the .Net Framework are good, but in many ways =
they=92re=20
pretty basic, and I think it=92s time that you take Windows.Forms =
to the=20
next level.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>I =
really think=20
that the menus and toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to =
the=20
.Net Framework as standard controls in the next release of the =
Framework=20
and VS.NET, codenamed =93Visual Studio .Net for <st1:State=20
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Yukon</st1:place></st1:State>.=94<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>This would truly take =
the .Net to=20
the next level!<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN>Thanks for=20
listening to this, and let me know what you =
think.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT=20
=
size=3D3>Jason<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Re: MS, please add Office 2k3 Menus/Toolbars to the Framework by phoenix

phoenix
Wed Jul 09 05:39:53 CDT 2003

Why? Menus have an ownerdraw property which let you draw them by yourself.
It's not 100% the same but you can get them almost the same without much
effort (in comparison with the old VB6 days). I would guess something
similar is possible with the toolbars though I never tried it.

Yves

"K. Shier" <ks4hire@spammersGetHitWithABat.yah00.com> schreef in bericht
news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
this petition gets my signature
"Jason Webb" <jasonw15@msn.com> wrote in message
news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Dear Microsoft,

The current "Windows.Forms" controls included in the .Net Framework are
good, but in many ways they're pretty basic, and I think it's time that you
take Windows.Forms to the next level. I really think that the menus and
toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net Framework as
standard controls in the next release of the Framework and VS.NET, codenamed
"Visual Studio .Net for Yukon." This would truly take the .Net to the next
level! Thanks for listening to this, and let me know what you think.

Jason



Re: MS, please add Office 2k3 Menus/Toolbars to the Framework by Tim

Tim
Wed Jul 09 11:41:30 CDT 2003

Agreed. But...
Everybodies compenetcy level is different. So some people may not know that
they can owner-draw and some people wouldn't know where to begin on this
subject. Also the idea behind the framework (IMO) is to take the emphasis
off the code and put the emphasis on the application concepts - aka what you
are trying to accomplish. Why would I use .Net over let's say VB classic if
I didn't gain anything from it? ... because .Net is *supposed* to be the
evolution of programming, hence why the more wrapped features they have the
closer they become to a application-concept model instead of a code-concept
model.

To all those people that say "do it yourself" that's great and if you want
to do that that's fine. But if everyone is doing it themselves and then
rolling out apps, the end user will have 2x, 3x, 4x, etc. the amount of
assemblies sitting on their machines when this could all be shared from the
MS assemblies in the GAC. The fact is Microsoft encourages feedback, and I
have heard this request (for stronger UI controls) asked many times. So this
is something that MS wants people to talk about.

In relation to the original poster, have a look at the following web sites
(free stuff ahead):
http://www.dotnetmagic.com
http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/ (look at the DotNetWidgets)

--
Tim Wilson
Windows Embedded MVP

"Jeremy Cowles" <jeremy.stop-spam-now.cowles@asifl.com> wrote in message
news:%6XOa.1152$k85.128723@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> 'tis true, you can create & user-draw any common control. Most
programmers
> are just too lazy or just dont realize that they can create
> toolbar/rebar/listview/treeview/tree-list-view/etc..etc..etc... with out
any
> help from the Framework. It's called CreateWindowEx and commctl32.dll -
it's
> not that hard.
>
>
>
>
> "phoenix" <patient0@skynetWORK.be> wrote in message
> news:esuPzZgRDHA.1868@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Why? Menus have an ownerdraw property which let you draw them by
yourself.
> > It's not 100% the same but you can get them almost the same without much
> > effort (in comparison with the old VB6 days). I would guess something
> > similar is possible with the toolbars though I never tried it.
> >
> > Yves
> >
> > "K. Shier" <ks4hire@spammersGetHitWithABat.yah00.com> schreef in bericht
> > news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > this petition gets my signature
> > "Jason Webb" <jasonw15@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > Dear Microsoft,
> >
> > The current "Windows.Forms" controls included in the .Net Framework are
> > good, but in many ways they're pretty basic, and I think it's time that
> you
> > take Windows.Forms to the next level. I really think that the menus and
> > toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net Framework as
> > standard controls in the next release of the Framework and VS.NET,
> codenamed
> > "Visual Studio .Net for Yukon." This would truly take the .Net to the
> next
> > level! Thanks for listening to this, and let me know what you think.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
>



Re: MS, please add Office 2k3 Menus/Toolbars to the Framework by Tim

Tim
Wed Jul 09 11:50:55 CDT 2003

Sorry that should read:
Everybody's competency level is different.

BTW: Competency is not a good word to misspell - should have run a spell
check.

--
Tim Wilson
Windows Embedded MVP

"Tim Wilson [MVP]" <Tim_Wilson@Rogers.com> wrote in message
news:%23$a$vijRDHA.2228@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Agreed. But...
> Everybodies compenetcy level is different. So some people may not know
that
> they can owner-draw and some people wouldn't know where to begin on this
> subject. Also the idea behind the framework (IMO) is to take the emphasis
> off the code and put the emphasis on the application concepts - aka what
you
> are trying to accomplish. Why would I use .Net over let's say VB classic
if
> I didn't gain anything from it? ... because .Net is *supposed* to be the
> evolution of programming, hence why the more wrapped features they have
the
> closer they become to a application-concept model instead of a
code-concept
> model.
>
> To all those people that say "do it yourself" that's great and if you want
> to do that that's fine. But if everyone is doing it themselves and then
> rolling out apps, the end user will have 2x, 3x, 4x, etc. the amount of
> assemblies sitting on their machines when this could all be shared from
the
> MS assemblies in the GAC. The fact is Microsoft encourages feedback, and I
> have heard this request (for stronger UI controls) asked many times. So
this
> is something that MS wants people to talk about.
>
> In relation to the original poster, have a look at the following web sites
> (free stuff ahead):
> http://www.dotnetmagic.com
> http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/ (look at the DotNetWidgets)
>
> --
> Tim Wilson
> Windows Embedded MVP
>
> "Jeremy Cowles" <jeremy.stop-spam-now.cowles@asifl.com> wrote in message
> news:%6XOa.1152$k85.128723@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> > 'tis true, you can create & user-draw any common control. Most
> programmers
> > are just too lazy or just dont realize that they can create
> > toolbar/rebar/listview/treeview/tree-list-view/etc..etc..etc... with out
> any
> > help from the Framework. It's called CreateWindowEx and commctl32.dll -
> it's
> > not that hard.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "phoenix" <patient0@skynetWORK.be> wrote in message
> > news:esuPzZgRDHA.1868@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > Why? Menus have an ownerdraw property which let you draw them by
> yourself.
> > > It's not 100% the same but you can get them almost the same without
much
> > > effort (in comparison with the old VB6 days). I would guess something
> > > similar is possible with the toolbars though I never tried it.
> > >
> > > Yves
> > >
> > > "K. Shier" <ks4hire@spammersGetHitWithABat.yah00.com> schreef in
bericht
> > > news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > this petition gets my signature
> > > "Jason Webb" <jasonw15@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > Dear Microsoft,
> > >
> > > The current "Windows.Forms" controls included in the .Net Framework
are
> > > good, but in many ways they're pretty basic, and I think it's time
that
> > you
> > > take Windows.Forms to the next level. I really think that the menus
and
> > > toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net Framework as
> > > standard controls in the next release of the Framework and VS.NET,
> > codenamed
> > > "Visual Studio .Net for Yukon." This would truly take the .Net to the
> > next
> > > level! Thanks for listening to this, and let me know what you think.
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>



Re: MS, please add Office 2k3 Menus/Toolbars to the Framework by Jeremy

Jeremy
Wed Jul 09 11:48:18 CDT 2003

Touché.


"Tim Wilson [MVP]" <Tim_Wilson@Rogers.com> wrote in message
news:%23$a$vijRDHA.2228@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Agreed. But...
> Everybodies compenetcy level is different. So some people may not know
that
> they can owner-draw and some people wouldn't know where to begin on this
> subject. Also the idea behind the framework (IMO) is to take the emphasis
> off the code and put the emphasis on the application concepts - aka what
you
> are trying to accomplish. Why would I use .Net over let's say VB classic
if
> I didn't gain anything from it? ... because .Net is *supposed* to be the
> evolution of programming, hence why the more wrapped features they have
the
> closer they become to a application-concept model instead of a
code-concept
> model.
>
> To all those people that say "do it yourself" that's great and if you want
> to do that that's fine. But if everyone is doing it themselves and then
> rolling out apps, the end user will have 2x, 3x, 4x, etc. the amount of
> assemblies sitting on their machines when this could all be shared from
the
> MS assemblies in the GAC. The fact is Microsoft encourages feedback, and I
> have heard this request (for stronger UI controls) asked many times. So
this
> is something that MS wants people to talk about.
>
> In relation to the original poster, have a look at the following web sites
> (free stuff ahead):
> http://www.dotnetmagic.com
> http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/ (look at the DotNetWidgets)
>
> --
> Tim Wilson
> Windows Embedded MVP
>
> "Jeremy Cowles" <jeremy.stop-spam-now.cowles@asifl.com> wrote in message
> news:%6XOa.1152$k85.128723@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> > 'tis true, you can create & user-draw any common control. Most
> programmers
> > are just too lazy or just dont realize that they can create
> > toolbar/rebar/listview/treeview/tree-list-view/etc..etc..etc... with out
> any
> > help from the Framework. It's called CreateWindowEx and commctl32.dll -
> it's
> > not that hard.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "phoenix" <patient0@skynetWORK.be> wrote in message
> > news:esuPzZgRDHA.1868@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > Why? Menus have an ownerdraw property which let you draw them by
> yourself.
> > > It's not 100% the same but you can get them almost the same without
much
> > > effort (in comparison with the old VB6 days). I would guess something
> > > similar is possible with the toolbars though I never tried it.
> > >
> > > Yves
> > >
> > > "K. Shier" <ks4hire@spammersGetHitWithABat.yah00.com> schreef in
bericht
> > > news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > this petition gets my signature
> > > "Jason Webb" <jasonw15@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > Dear Microsoft,
> > >
> > > The current "Windows.Forms" controls included in the .Net Framework
are
> > > good, but in many ways they're pretty basic, and I think it's time
that
> > you
> > > take Windows.Forms to the next level. I really think that the menus
and
> > > toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net Framework as
> > > standard controls in the next release of the Framework and VS.NET,
> > codenamed
> > > "Visual Studio .Net for Yukon." This would truly take the .Net to the
> > next
> > > level! Thanks for listening to this, and let me know what you think.
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>


Re: MS, please add Office 2k3 Menus/Toolbars to the Framework by Jeremy

Jeremy
Wed Jul 09 11:53:12 CDT 2003

LOL!


"Tim Wilson [MVP]" <Tim_Wilson@Rogers.com> wrote in message
news:%23%23U3AojRDHA.2148@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Sorry that should read:
> Everybody's competency level is different.
>
> BTW: Competency is not a good word to misspell - should have run a spell
> check.
>
> --
> Tim Wilson
> Windows Embedded MVP
>
> "Tim Wilson [MVP]" <Tim_Wilson@Rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:%23$a$vijRDHA.2228@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Agreed. But...
> > Everybodies compenetcy level is different. So some people may not know
> that
> > they can owner-draw and some people wouldn't know where to begin on this
> > subject. Also the idea behind the framework (IMO) is to take the
emphasis
> > off the code and put the emphasis on the application concepts - aka what
> you
> > are trying to accomplish. Why would I use .Net over let's say VB classic
> if
> > I didn't gain anything from it? ... because .Net is *supposed* to be the
> > evolution of programming, hence why the more wrapped features they have
> the
> > closer they become to a application-concept model instead of a
> code-concept
> > model.
> >
> > To all those people that say "do it yourself" that's great and if you
want
> > to do that that's fine. But if everyone is doing it themselves and then
> > rolling out apps, the end user will have 2x, 3x, 4x, etc. the amount of
> > assemblies sitting on their machines when this could all be shared from
> the
> > MS assemblies in the GAC. The fact is Microsoft encourages feedback, and
I
> > have heard this request (for stronger UI controls) asked many times. So
> this
> > is something that MS wants people to talk about.
> >
> > In relation to the original poster, have a look at the following web
sites
> > (free stuff ahead):
> > http://www.dotnetmagic.com
> > http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/ (look at the DotNetWidgets)
> >
> > --
> > Tim Wilson
> > Windows Embedded MVP
> >
> > "Jeremy Cowles" <jeremy.stop-spam-now.cowles@asifl.com> wrote in message
> > news:%6XOa.1152$k85.128723@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> > > 'tis true, you can create & user-draw any common control. Most
> > programmers
> > > are just too lazy or just dont realize that they can create
> > > toolbar/rebar/listview/treeview/tree-list-view/etc..etc..etc... with
out
> > any
> > > help from the Framework. It's called CreateWindowEx and
commctl32.dll -
> > it's
> > > not that hard.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "phoenix" <patient0@skynetWORK.be> wrote in message
> > > news:esuPzZgRDHA.1868@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > Why? Menus have an ownerdraw property which let you draw them by
> > yourself.
> > > > It's not 100% the same but you can get them almost the same without
> much
> > > > effort (in comparison with the old VB6 days). I would guess
something
> > > > similar is possible with the toolbars though I never tried it.
> > > >
> > > > Yves
> > > >
> > > > "K. Shier" <ks4hire@spammersGetHitWithABat.yah00.com> schreef in
> bericht
> > > > news:O4HmxWaRDHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > this petition gets my signature
> > > > "Jason Webb" <jasonw15@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:uPfNwM6PDHA.2432@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > > Dear Microsoft,
> > > >
> > > > The current "Windows.Forms" controls included in the .Net Framework
> are
> > > > good, but in many ways they're pretty basic, and I think it's time
> that
> > > you
> > > > take Windows.Forms to the next level. I really think that the menus
> and
> > > > toolbars used in Office 2003 should be added to the .Net Framework
as
> > > > standard controls in the next release of the Framework and VS.NET,
> > > codenamed
> > > > "Visual Studio .Net for Yukon." This would truly take the .Net to
the
> > > next
> > > > level! Thanks for listening to this, and let me know what you
think.
> > > >
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>