Mike
Tue May 15 13:26:19 CDT 2007
Thanks for the info Frans - i'm even more depressed now.
Anyone remember dBase III? (rhetorical question of course).
M
"Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <perseus.usenetNOSPAM@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:xn0f68c2r1f3g2000@news.microsoft.com...
> Mike Partain wrote:
>
>> The framework I am using does not implement INotifyPropertyChanged. I
>> have been provided a work around, and it 'supposed' to be implemented
>> in the next release. I personally prefer not to add a bunch of custom
>> code then have to remove it next release. Then again, who knows when
>> the next release will be and if it does not implement it I've waited
>> for nothing. Since WPF has been available in some form or another
>> for vendors to prepare for quite some time, i am indeed disapointed
>> at the moment.
>
> It's always a challenge to keep up, and because MS doesn't have a
> solid designer for developers anyway, I think some framework developers
> will simply think "it's not my problem". What's a bit odd is that
> INotifyPropertyChanged is an interface which is necessary for .NET 2.0
> databinding as well, so if the framework vendor / writer of the
> framework you're using would have added true .NET 2.0 support, it would
> have been already there.
>
> We added INotifyPropertyChanged back in July 2006 in v2.0 of llblgen
> pro because the interface makes it possible to get rid of the list of
> <propertyname>Changed events which were otherwise necessary to get true
> databinding.
>
>> As a side note, I did test the work around provided, and while it
>> worked with a simple 2 way binding test, as soon as a tried to use it
>> with exceed's data grid I ran into other problems - giving me even
>> less of a reason to pursue that path.
>
> No offence to Exceed in particular, but control vendors don't always
> play nice when it comes to obeying databinding 'standards', although I
> have to give them the credit that the 'standard' isn't really clearly
> defined by MS.
>
>> So again, the simple questions is; Is there any persistent/ORM
>> products you can use with exceed's data grid currently without adding
>> code? I specificy exceed's datagrid because it is a component that is
>> available for free. Whether or not it becomes the grid of choice
>> remains to be seen. I see that infragistics is now shipping their WPF
>> controls and I plan on trying them out shortly. Their price is good
>> (although not free, they are inexpensive enough). I am making a leap
>> of faith that if a Persitent/ORM layer works with exceed it would
>> also work well with infragistics.
>
> haha, no.
>
> I wished it was that simple. Even though silly interfaces like
> ITypedList and IBindingList are available for a long time, it's still
> hard for some control vendors to even use them properly. For example
> infragistics didn't use ITypedList for a long time, which made the grid
> pull the complete database into memory if you used lazy loading as it
> would trigger lazyloading every time it read an IList implementing
> property of an entity object in the list bound to the grid. :)
>
> And on the web for example, you have in asp.net 2.0 a class called
> DataSourceControl. Every datasource control derives from it. You can do
> everything via that base class, so a grid just has to work with that
> class and every datasource control can work with the grid. Still there
> are some control vendors out there who have no clue whatsoever about
> OO, inheritance and polymorphism and simply try to cast the bound
> datasource control to one of the vanilla .NET ones. If that fails, they
> give up.
>
> So, in theory, it all should work fine, in practise however, it's a
> completely different ballgame.
>
>> I do not see the lack of WPF control libraries as a problem. WPF
>> seems rich enough as is, with the exception of no grid. And even
>> without that, using a listview in grid mode provides adaquate
>> browsing and can easily be coupled to robust editing, just not in
>> place.
>
> It was my understanding that it could be done, by adding edit controls
> to the listview. But it will be a challenge of course to mimic the
> whole new row experience with dual ESC roll back behavior.
>
>> My current requirement for a grid is simply a developers
>> shortcut for advanced users and not needed for general end user use.
>> Down the road, pivot table styles grids would be nice to have and
>> exceed seems to be able to do what I need.
>>
>> Have you seen Family Show?
>>
>>
http://www.vertigo.com/familyshow.aspx
>>
>> What a nice UI pardigm for browsing database relations and generating
>> code eh ? (hint hint) If I knew for sure NHibernate was WPF
>> compatible, I think I'd throw a code generator together myself :)
>
> I think I read on Ayende's blog a couple of weeks ago he did add
> support for INotifyPropertyChanged to nhibernate in less than 100
> lines. It shouldn't be that hard either, as nhibernate generates dyn.
> proxies at runtime anyway, so emitting an interface and an event isn't
> that hard.
>
> I don't know if he added the more complex 'is this value really
> changed' check as well, which is required to have proper runtime change
> event behavior. (if a value hasn't changed, don't raise the event. This
> differs between new entity objects and existing entity objects).
>
> FB
>
>
>
>>
>> M
>>
>> "Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <perseus.usenetNOSPAM@xs4all.nl> wrote in
>> message news:xn0f65o9f4pnp2000@news.microsoft.com...
>> > Mike Partain wrote:
>> >
>> > > I don't mean to hijack the thread but this seems like the right
>> > > group to ask;
>> > >
>> > > Can anyone comment on the current state of the ORM/Persistent
>> > > products and support for proper and full WPF binding?
>> >
>> > It's my understanding that WPF supports full .NET 2.0 binding, which
>> > means as long as INotifyPropertyChanged is implemented, it will work
>> > properly.
>> >
>> > DependencyProperty support is a total different ballgame, I think
>> > you then will be dissapointed for the moment, however, when I look
>> > around for full WPF control libraries, I don't see many offerings
>> > as well at the moment.
>> >
>> > > I've run into some problems with my current choice and I'm ready
>> > > to jump - specifically any experience with nhibernate with
>> > > exceed's wpf data grid? (seems like that combination would push
>> > > all the buttons to see if they worked).
>> >
>> > What's the current tool you're using, and does it use / implement
>> > INotifyPropertyChanged on the entity classes ? (directly via code
>> > generation/base classes or via dyn. proxy / IL weaving ) ?
>> >
>> > FB
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >>"Peter Morris" <support@NOdroopySPAMeyes.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:%23V1KTEjjHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >>> Hi all
>> > > >
>> >>> What is the most commonly used object persistence framework for
>> >>> .NET?
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Lead developer of LLBLGen Pro, the productive O/R mapper for .NET
> LLBLGen Pro website:
http://www.llblgen.com
> My .NET blog:
http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
> Microsoft MVP (C#)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------