tables

I was working on some forms in Publisher when it was suggested to me that, in
order to stabilize the forms, I use tables in Frontpage. I opened the program
for the first time about two weeks ago, & the advice proved to be correct. By
using tables tohold a header, nav buttons, etc. around the form, everything
stayed where I put it. My forms are done.

Now I'm just dabbling with the program. It seemed to me that the easy way to
lay out a page would be to create one large grid, with lots of cells, & merge
the cells to form the spaces that I wanted to use. I could just change
widths, heights, & merge.

I've done this, but now don't seem to be able to affect the width of the
cells involved. The page itself is 100%, but the cells won't change, either
as a percentage, or as fixed widths.

The program is FPXP. Two questions. First, why are the cells height & width
seemingly "locked"? Second question would be, why is my initial plan, with a
large, multi-cell grid a bad idea? It obviosly is, (a bad idea), but why?

DanL
Wed May 07 08:23:01 CDT 2008

Using percentages 'should' allow your cells to expand. As far as using a
table for layout, I don't think that's a bad idea at all. Developers seems
to be drifting towards CSS and layers <div>, but I'll bet you the majority of
sites use tables somewhere on their site for layout.

"cowpuncher007" wrote:

> I was working on some forms in Publisher when it was suggested to me that, in
> order to stabilize the forms, I use tables in Frontpage. I opened the program
> for the first time about two weeks ago, & the advice proved to be correct. By
> using tables tohold a header, nav buttons, etc. around the form, everything
> stayed where I put it. My forms are done.
>
> Now I'm just dabbling with the program. It seemed to me that the easy way to
> lay out a page would be to create one large grid, with lots of cells, & merge
> the cells to form the spaces that I wanted to use. I could just change
> widths, heights, & merge.
>
> I've done this, but now don't seem to be able to affect the width of the
> cells involved. The page itself is 100%, but the cells won't change, either
> as a percentage, or as fixed widths.
>
> The program is FPXP. Two questions. First, why are the cells height & width
> seemingly "locked"? Second question would be, why is my initial plan, with a
> large, multi-cell grid a bad idea? It obviosly is, (a bad idea), but why?

Mike
Wed May 07 08:41:11 CDT 2008

Without seeing your page, it is hard to tell you the exact problems. Tables
are fine for doing what they are supposed to do- displaying tabular data,
but are becoming less favorable for page layouts.
The current trend is to use CSS styling to do the layout.




"cowpuncher007" <cowpuncher007@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9FD06703-F531-48C7-922D-DEBC3A286A0F@microsoft.com...
>I was working on some forms in Publisher when it was suggested to me that,
>in
> order to stabilize the forms, I use tables in Frontpage. I opened the
> program
> for the first time about two weeks ago, & the advice proved to be correct.
> By
> using tables tohold a header, nav buttons, etc. around the form,
> everything
> stayed where I put it. My forms are done.
>
> Now I'm just dabbling with the program. It seemed to me that the easy way
> to
> lay out a page would be to create one large grid, with lots of cells, &
> merge
> the cells to form the spaces that I wanted to use. I could just change
> widths, heights, & merge.
>
> I've done this, but now don't seem to be able to affect the width of the
> cells involved. The page itself is 100%, but the cells won't change,
> either
> as a percentage, or as fixed widths.
>
> The program is FPXP. Two questions. First, why are the cells height &
> width
> seemingly "locked"? Second question would be, why is my initial plan, with
> a
> large, multi-cell grid a bad idea? It obviosly is, (a bad idea), but why?

cowpuncher007
Wed May 07 09:31:01 CDT 2008

I don't have a page yet to show you. I'm just wondering if using a grid
containing too many cells is a problem. The grid I'm working with is 20 cells
wide by 30 cells tall. I should be able to re-size these cells, but, as I
said, I can't

Again, I'm just dabbling at this point. I'm only trying to get a sense & a
feel for the program. My usual method for this is just to jump in & ask any
stupid question that comes to mind.

"Mike Mueller" wrote:

> Without seeing your page, it is hard to tell you the exact problems. Tables
> are fine for doing what they are supposed to do- displaying tabular data,
> but are becoming less favorable for page layouts.
> The current trend is to use CSS styling to do the layout.
>
>
>
>
> "cowpuncher007" <cowpuncher007@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:9FD06703-F531-48C7-922D-DEBC3A286A0F@microsoft.com...
> >I was working on some forms in Publisher when it was suggested to me that,
> >in
> > order to stabilize the forms, I use tables in Frontpage. I opened the
> > program
> > for the first time about two weeks ago, & the advice proved to be correct.
> > By
> > using tables tohold a header, nav buttons, etc. around the form,
> > everything
> > stayed where I put it. My forms are done.
> >
> > Now I'm just dabbling with the program. It seemed to me that the easy way
> > to
> > lay out a page would be to create one large grid, with lots of cells, &
> > merge
> > the cells to form the spaces that I wanted to use. I could just change
> > widths, heights, & merge.
> >
> > I've done this, but now don't seem to be able to affect the width of the
> > cells involved. The page itself is 100%, but the cells won't change,
> > either
> > as a percentage, or as fixed widths.
> >
> > The program is FPXP. Two questions. First, why are the cells height &
> > width
> > seemingly "locked"? Second question would be, why is my initial plan, with
> > a
> > large, multi-cell grid a bad idea? It obviosly is, (a bad idea), but why?
>

Tom
Wed May 07 09:43:09 CDT 2008

Setting the size of the invidividual cells can be done, but the total of the
cells must equal the size of the row or column.

For example, if you have 20 cells in each row of a 100% table, the
individual cells must be sized so the sum total is 100%. All rows must have
the same equal sizing, unless you're merging cells.

Don't recommend setting sizes for height, as some browsers won't rend them
properly.
--
Tom [Pepper] Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
"You're a daisy if you do!"
---
FrontPage Support:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
===
"cowpuncher007" <cowpuncher007@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:45E911A2-B680-451C-A5C6-67C6F75FD542@microsoft.com...
:I don't have a page yet to show you. I'm just wondering if using a grid
: containing too many cells is a problem. The grid I'm working with is 20
cells
: wide by 30 cells tall. I should be able to re-size these cells, but, as I
: said, I can't
:
: Again, I'm just dabbling at this point. I'm only trying to get a sense & a
: feel for the program. My usual method for this is just to jump in & ask
any
: stupid question that comes to mind.
:
: "Mike Mueller" wrote:
:
: > Without seeing your page, it is hard to tell you the exact problems.
Tables
: > are fine for doing what they are supposed to do- displaying tabular
data,
: > but are becoming less favorable for page layouts.
: > The current trend is to use CSS styling to do the layout.
: >
: >
: >
: >
: > "cowpuncher007" <cowpuncher007@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
: > news:9FD06703-F531-48C7-922D-DEBC3A286A0F@microsoft.com...
: > >I was working on some forms in Publisher when it was suggested to me
that,
: > >in
: > > order to stabilize the forms, I use tables in Frontpage. I opened the
: > > program
: > > for the first time about two weeks ago, & the advice proved to be
correct.
: > > By
: > > using tables tohold a header, nav buttons, etc. around the form,
: > > everything
: > > stayed where I put it. My forms are done.
: > >
: > > Now I'm just dabbling with the program. It seemed to me that the easy
way
: > > to
: > > lay out a page would be to create one large grid, with lots of cells,
&
: > > merge
: > > the cells to form the spaces that I wanted to use. I could just change
: > > widths, heights, & merge.
: > >
: > > I've done this, but now don't seem to be able to affect the width of
the
: > > cells involved. The page itself is 100%, but the cells won't change,
: > > either
: > > as a percentage, or as fixed widths.
: > >
: > > The program is FPXP. Two questions. First, why are the cells height &
: > > width
: > > seemingly "locked"? Second question would be, why is my initial plan,
with
: > > a
: > > large, multi-cell grid a bad idea? It obviosly is, (a bad idea), but
why?
: >

cowpuncher007
Wed May 07 10:13:00 CDT 2008

Thanks,

Having messed around a bit more now, I'm understanding the width (total)
better. To space the way I want, I'm splitting cells & re-distributing their
individual sizes. Right? They will always total 100%

I understand about the height value expanding to allow what's placed in it,
but to see in advance what things are going to look like, can't I just lay
the page out, with specified height numbers, insert the text & images I want,
& then remove height from the individual rows?

"Tom [Pepper] Willett" wrote:

> Setting the size of the invidividual cells can be done, but the total of the
> cells must equal the size of the row or column.
>
> For example, if you have 20 cells in each row of a 100% table, the
> individual cells must be sized so the sum total is 100%. All rows must have
> the same equal sizing, unless you're merging cells.
>
> Don't recommend setting sizes for height, as some browsers won't rend them
> properly.
> --
> Tom [Pepper] Willett
> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
> "You're a daisy if you do!"
> ---
> FrontPage Support:
> http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
> ===
> "cowpuncher007" <cowpuncher007@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:45E911A2-B680-451C-A5C6-67C6F75FD542@microsoft.com...
> :I don't have a page yet to show you. I'm just wondering if using a grid
> : containing too many cells is a problem. The grid I'm working with is 20
> cells
> : wide by 30 cells tall. I should be able to re-size these cells, but, as I
> : said, I can't
> :
> : Again, I'm just dabbling at this point. I'm only trying to get a sense & a
> : feel for the program. My usual method for this is just to jump in & ask
> any
> : stupid question that comes to mind.
> :
> : "Mike Mueller" wrote:
> :
> : > Without seeing your page, it is hard to tell you the exact problems.
> Tables
> : > are fine for doing what they are supposed to do- displaying tabular
> data,
> : > but are becoming less favorable for page layouts.
> : > The current trend is to use CSS styling to do the layout.
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : > "cowpuncher007" <cowpuncher007@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message
> : > news:9FD06703-F531-48C7-922D-DEBC3A286A0F@microsoft.com...
> : > >I was working on some forms in Publisher when it was suggested to me
> that,
> : > >in
> : > > order to stabilize the forms, I use tables in Frontpage. I opened the
> : > > program
> : > > for the first time about two weeks ago, & the advice proved to be
> correct.
> : > > By
> : > > using tables tohold a header, nav buttons, etc. around the form,
> : > > everything
> : > > stayed where I put it. My forms are done.
> : > >
> : > > Now I'm just dabbling with the program. It seemed to me that the easy
> way
> : > > to
> : > > lay out a page would be to create one large grid, with lots of cells,
> &
> : > > merge
> : > > the cells to form the spaces that I wanted to use. I could just change
> : > > widths, heights, & merge.
> : > >
> : > > I've done this, but now don't seem to be able to affect the width of
> the
> : > > cells involved. The page itself is 100%, but the cells won't change,
> : > > either
> : > > as a percentage, or as fixed widths.
> : > >
> : > > The program is FPXP. Two questions. First, why are the cells height &
> : > > width
> : > > seemingly "locked"? Second question would be, why is my initial plan,
> with
> : > > a
> : > > large, multi-cell grid a bad idea? It obviosly is, (a bad idea), but
> why?
> : >
>
>
>

Mir
Wed May 07 13:19:19 CDT 2008

Just my two cents' worth from one dabbler to another!
(1) Try one table after another vertically instead of one big table. You can
even have a one-row table to arrange things horizontally; then a second
table; and so on. Bonus: since pages load table by table, this helps the
download speed -- your viewer gets the whole top table to look at while
others are loading further down.
(2) Once you drag any cell divisions, FrontPage "fixes" the dimensions in
numbers. Maybe you can undo this in Code View. (When you select an item in
Design View, its code will be selected when you open Code View.)
Best wishes, and have fun!



"cowpuncher007" wrote:

> I was working on some forms in Publisher when it was suggested to me that, in
> order to stabilize the forms, I use tables in Frontpage. I opened the program
> for the first time about two weeks ago, & the advice proved to be correct. By
> using tables tohold a header, nav buttons, etc. around the form, everything
> stayed where I put it. My forms are done.
>
> Now I'm just dabbling with the program. It seemed to me that the easy way to
> lay out a page would be to create one large grid, with lots of cells, & merge
> the cells to form the spaces that I wanted to use. I could just change
> widths, heights, & merge.
>
> I've done this, but now don't seem to be able to affect the width of the
> cells involved. The page itself is 100%, but the cells won't change, either
> as a percentage, or as fixed widths.
>
> The program is FPXP. Two questions. First, why are the cells height & width
> seemingly "locked"? Second question would be, why is my initial plan, with a
> large, multi-cell grid a bad idea? It obviosly is, (a bad idea), but why?

cowpuncher007
Wed May 07 15:44:04 CDT 2008

Thanks Mir. I told everybody I knew nothing about this program yet. For
instance, I didn't know until you said something that you could drag rows &
columns. I'll rebuil my test page one row at a time like you said & get back.
Thanks again.

"Mir" wrote:

> Just my two cents' worth from one dabbler to another!
> (1) Try one table after another vertically instead of one big table. You can
> even have a one-row table to arrange things horizontally; then a second
> table; and so on. Bonus: since pages load table by table, this helps the
> download speed -- your viewer gets the whole top table to look at while
> others are loading further down.
> (2) Once you drag any cell divisions, FrontPage "fixes" the dimensions in
> numbers. Maybe you can undo this in Code View. (When you select an item in
> Design View, its code will be selected when you open Code View.)
> Best wishes, and have fun!
>
>
>
> "cowpuncher007" wrote:
>
> > I was working on some forms in Publisher when it was suggested to me that, in
> > order to stabilize the forms, I use tables in Frontpage. I opened the program
> > for the first time about two weeks ago, & the advice proved to be correct. By
> > using tables tohold a header, nav buttons, etc. around the form, everything
> > stayed where I put it. My forms are done.
> >
> > Now I'm just dabbling with the program. It seemed to me that the easy way to
> > lay out a page would be to create one large grid, with lots of cells, & merge
> > the cells to form the spaces that I wanted to use. I could just change
> > widths, heights, & merge.
> >
> > I've done this, but now don't seem to be able to affect the width of the
> > cells involved. The page itself is 100%, but the cells won't change, either
> > as a percentage, or as fixed widths.
> >
> > The program is FPXP. Two questions. First, why are the cells height & width
> > seemingly "locked"? Second question would be, why is my initial plan, with a
> > large, multi-cell grid a bad idea? It obviosly is, (a bad idea), but why?

Rob
Wed May 07 18:03:46 CDT 2008

merging and splitting can lead to some strange results though, so be
careful.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression






"cowpuncher007" <cowpuncher007@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:16DB4B54-8039-496A-86B2-A36217E2C6BA@microsoft.com...
> Thanks,
>
> Having messed around a bit more now, I'm understanding the width (total)
> better. To space the way I want, I'm splitting cells & re-distributing
> their
> individual sizes. Right? They will always total 100%
>
> I understand about the height value expanding to allow what's placed in
> it,
> but to see in advance what things are going to look like, can't I just lay
> the page out, with specified height numbers, insert the text & images I
> want,
> & then remove height from the individual rows?
>
> "Tom [Pepper] Willett" wrote:
>
>> Setting the size of the invidividual cells can be done, but the total of
>> the
>> cells must equal the size of the row or column.
>>
>> For example, if you have 20 cells in each row of a 100% table, the
>> individual cells must be sized so the sum total is 100%. All rows must
>> have
>> the same equal sizing, unless you're merging cells.
>>
>> Don't recommend setting sizes for height, as some browsers won't rend
>> them
>> properly.
>> --
>> Tom [Pepper] Willett
>> Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
>> "You're a daisy if you do!"
>> ---
>> FrontPage Support:
>> http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
>> ===
>> "cowpuncher007" <cowpuncher007@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:45E911A2-B680-451C-A5C6-67C6F75FD542@microsoft.com...
>> :I don't have a page yet to show you. I'm just wondering if using a grid
>> : containing too many cells is a problem. The grid I'm working with is 20
>> cells
>> : wide by 30 cells tall. I should be able to re-size these cells, but, as
>> I
>> : said, I can't
>> :
>> : Again, I'm just dabbling at this point. I'm only trying to get a sense
>> & a
>> : feel for the program. My usual method for this is just to jump in & ask
>> any
>> : stupid question that comes to mind.
>> :
>> : "Mike Mueller" wrote:
>> :
>> : > Without seeing your page, it is hard to tell you the exact problems.
>> Tables
>> : > are fine for doing what they are supposed to do- displaying tabular
>> data,
>> : > but are becoming less favorable for page layouts.
>> : > The current trend is to use CSS styling to do the layout.
>> : >
>> : >
>> : >
>> : >
>> : > "cowpuncher007" <cowpuncher007@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> message
>> : > news:9FD06703-F531-48C7-922D-DEBC3A286A0F@microsoft.com...
>> : > >I was working on some forms in Publisher when it was suggested to me
>> that,
>> : > >in
>> : > > order to stabilize the forms, I use tables in Frontpage. I opened
>> the
>> : > > program
>> : > > for the first time about two weeks ago, & the advice proved to be
>> correct.
>> : > > By
>> : > > using tables tohold a header, nav buttons, etc. around the form,
>> : > > everything
>> : > > stayed where I put it. My forms are done.
>> : > >
>> : > > Now I'm just dabbling with the program. It seemed to me that the
>> easy
>> way
>> : > > to
>> : > > lay out a page would be to create one large grid, with lots of
>> cells,
>> &
>> : > > merge
>> : > > the cells to form the spaces that I wanted to use. I could just
>> change
>> : > > widths, heights, & merge.
>> : > >
>> : > > I've done this, but now don't seem to be able to affect the width
>> of
>> the
>> : > > cells involved. The page itself is 100%, but the cells won't
>> change,
>> : > > either
>> : > > as a percentage, or as fixed widths.
>> : > >
>> : > > The program is FPXP. Two questions. First, why are the cells height
>> &
>> : > > width
>> : > > seemingly "locked"? Second question would be, why is my initial
>> plan,
>> with
>> : > > a
>> : > > large, multi-cell grid a bad idea? It obviosly is, (a bad idea),
>> but
>> why?
>> : >
>>
>>
>>

Tom
Sat May 17 06:55:51 CDT 2008

> The program is FPXP. I think that is also FP2002.

The important point on tables is to nest (multiple tables under each other)
them as little as possible so they load faster. Are you previewing in a
browser or just inside FP?

Tom


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