Hi all,

My client is a relatively small business - instead of racks full of blades,
we're talking about a handful of servers in a single site. So you guy who
are used to implementing a 16-node Exchange cluster with a SAN the size of a
boxcar need to scale down your thinking to follow this scenario.

My client uses a SCC-type cluster under Exchange 2003, and hosts some other
low-impact clustered virtual servers such as file shares for business records
(Word and Excel docs) on the same cluster. Given the amount of mailbox
traffic Exchange is loafing, so it's no problem to put a few other things on
the same cluster. Normally a small business like this might not use a
cluster, but my client likes the extra reliability and automatic failover.

Now we're looking at buying a new server and upgrading to Exchange 2007
within the next year. With Exchange 2007, Microsoft seems to recommend CCR
over SCC as a better high availability choice because of the two complete
copies of the database, and because you can save money by skipping the shared
storage (SCSI in my case).

However, my client likes the redunancy of a cluster for his business data as
well as for Exchange, so he wants a new cluster with shared storage. The
Microsoft Cluster folks recommend that you stay away from a MNS cluster if
you can because there's less chance of "losing the quorum". The Exchange
folks don't necessarily disagree but have offered the MNS option to reduce
costs and allow for geo clusters.

With this background, I wondered if I can create a standard (not MNS)
Windows cluster server, put the business data shares on shared storage, and
then install Exchange in a CCR configuration instead of a SCC configuration.
It would put more disks on each node and less shared storage, but for better
reliability that's a small price to pay. Besides, the per-node SAS drives
are cheaper than the shared Ultra Scsi drives.

The Exchange documentation assumes that the SCC configuration will be used
with a standard cluster, and the CCR configuration will be used with a MNS
cluster. However I couldn't find any statement either way about whether an
CCR configuration will work on a standard cluster, and I certainly couldn't
find a statement that it's not a supported configuration.

So I tried it. It turns out that when you try to install Exchange in CCR
mode, setup complains because it doesn't see the Majority Node Set resource.
However, it's easy to add a File Share Majority Node Set resource to your
existing quorum group; since the cluster is not a MNS cluster Windows ignores
the resource, but it has no problem if you create it.

With a dummy MNS resource in the cluster to bypass the overly simplistic
Exchange setup prerequisites check, the actual install worked fine and CCR
started working flawlessly. Failover and failback work, both from within the
Exchange Management console and from the Cluster Administrator. Nothing
funny in the event logs. Also, the Exchange Best Practices Analyzer said
everything was A-OK.

So, if you find yourself with similar requirements, I'm here to tell you
that all you need to do to get Exchange to install in CCR mode is to create a
dummy MNS resource. You can probably delete it afterwords but I intend to
leave it so I can install future service packs.

Also, if anybody from the Exchange product team is reading, please fix your
prerequisite checker to allow installation of a CCR mailbox store on any
working cluster (you don't need any shared storage, so what do you care what
kind of cluster it is)?

Finally, if anybody sees any strong reason to stay away from this scenario
please let me know. I could alway set up Exchange in SCC mode instead but I
haven't seen anything that says what I'm trying to do is unsupported so why
not get the benefits of CCR?

Regards,
Mike Gilbert

Re: Exchange 2207 CCR on std (non-MNS) cluster by Mark

Mark
Tue Feb 06 05:54:00 CST 2007

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 01:24:00 -0800, Mike Gilbert
<MikeGilbert@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>My client is a relatively small business - instead of racks full of blades,
>we're talking about a handful of servers in a single site. So you guy who
>are used to implementing a 16-node Exchange cluster with a SAN the size of a
>boxcar need to scale down your thinking to follow this scenario.
>
>My client uses a SCC-type cluster under Exchange 2003, and hosts some other
>low-impact clustered virtual servers such as file shares for business records
>(Word and Excel docs) on the same cluster. Given the amount of mailbox
>traffic Exchange is loafing, so it's no problem to put a few other things on
>the same cluster. Normally a small business like this might not use a
>cluster, but my client likes the extra reliability and automatic failover.
>
>Now we're looking at buying a new server and upgrading to Exchange 2007
>within the next year. With Exchange 2007, Microsoft seems to recommend CCR
>over SCC as a better high availability choice because of the two complete
>copies of the database, and because you can save money by skipping the shared
>storage (SCSI in my case).
>
>However, my client likes the redunancy of a cluster for his business data as
>well as for Exchange, so he wants a new cluster with shared storage. The
>Microsoft Cluster folks recommend that you stay away from a MNS cluster if
>you can because there's less chance of "losing the quorum". The Exchange
>folks don't necessarily disagree but have offered the MNS option to reduce
>costs and allow for geo clusters.
>

Well, the clustering folk in the narrower Windows world would say that
and it's fine, because they're not dealing with CCR. The Exchange
information is the relevant recommendation because it's an application
level feature that just happens to "code share" (sound like an
airline) some of the clustering components.

>With this background, I wondered if I can create a standard (not MNS)
>Windows cluster server, put the business data shares on shared storage, and
>then install Exchange in a CCR configuration instead of a SCC configuration.
>It would put more disks on each node and less shared storage, but for better
>reliability that's a small price to pay. Besides, the per-node SAS drives
>are cheaper than the shared Ultra Scsi drives.
>
>The Exchange documentation assumes that the SCC configuration will be used
>with a standard cluster, and the CCR configuration will be used with a MNS
>cluster. However I couldn't find any statement either way about whether an
>CCR configuration will work on a standard cluster, and I certainly couldn't
>find a statement that it's not a supported configuration.
>
>So I tried it. It turns out that when you try to install Exchange in CCR
>mode, setup complains because it doesn't see the Majority Node Set resource.
>However, it's easy to add a File Share Majority Node Set resource to your
>existing quorum group; since the cluster is not a MNS cluster Windows ignores
>the resource, but it has no problem if you create it.
>
>With a dummy MNS resource in the cluster to bypass the overly simplistic
>Exchange setup prerequisites check, the actual install worked fine and CCR
>started working flawlessly. Failover and failback work, both from within the
>Exchange Management console and from the Cluster Administrator. Nothing
>funny in the event logs. Also, the Exchange Best Practices Analyzer said
>everything was A-OK.
>
>So, if you find yourself with similar requirements, I'm here to tell you
>that all you need to do to get Exchange to install in CCR mode is to create a
>dummy MNS resource. You can probably delete it afterwords but I intend to
>leave it so I can install future service packs.
>
>Also, if anybody from the Exchange product team is reading, please fix your
>prerequisite checker to allow installation of a CCR mailbox store on any
>working cluster (you don't need any shared storage, so what do you care what
>kind of cluster it is)?
>
>Finally, if anybody sees any strong reason to stay away from this scenario
>please let me know. I could alway set up Exchange in SCC mode instead but I
>haven't seen anything that says what I'm trying to do is unsupported so why
>not get the benefits of CCR?
>
>Regards,
>Mike Gilbert

There's really the case of what support you're going to get when
something is in a particular configuration. If you're never going to
call Microsoft and ask for support then you're ok at the moment.
There's the issue of whether or not something might change later on in
the product lifecycle but that's something you have to risk.

If you are going to call Microsoft and do have an agreement then you
will be expected to be in a "supported" configuration. Odds are that
when you call 1st and 2nd line support you're going to have a devil of
a job persuading the lesser skilled folks that your problem is not
related to the deviation you have made to the supported configuration.
If you do get near 3rd line support you'll probably be ok but it's
going to be nigh impossible to get there unless you're a large
corporate with an agreement with someone that does not go via the
standard routes.

As with all things there are a million and one ways to do things and
rarely any actually wrong ones.

Thanks for sharing. Food for thought here.

Re: Exchange 2207 CCR on std (non-MNS) cluster by Del

Del
Tue Feb 06 19:06:00 CST 2007

I'm not a Cluster expert by any means, but have you thought about this?
Shared storage clusters Share Disks that can failover to other Nodes. With
x7 and LCR or CCR that Full Volume of data is not replicated, ie only the
Exchange Data bases/Logs. So if you have other data on the Volumes, I
don't believe CCR is going to replicate data other than Exchange DBs/Logs to
the remote site.


"Mike Gilbert" <MikeGilbert@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:31824D55-831B-405F-9045-F00EBC2BA112@microsoft.com...
> Hi all,
>
> My client is a relatively small business - instead of racks full of
> blades,
> we're talking about a handful of servers in a single site. So you guy who
> are used to implementing a 16-node Exchange cluster with a SAN the size of
> a
> boxcar need to scale down your thinking to follow this scenario.
>
> My client uses a SCC-type cluster under Exchange 2003, and hosts some
> other
> low-impact clustered virtual servers such as file shares for business
> records
> (Word and Excel docs) on the same cluster. Given the amount of mailbox
> traffic Exchange is loafing, so it's no problem to put a few other things
> on
> the same cluster. Normally a small business like this might not use a
> cluster, but my client likes the extra reliability and automatic failover.
>
> Now we're looking at buying a new server and upgrading to Exchange 2007
> within the next year. With Exchange 2007, Microsoft seems to recommend
> CCR
> over SCC as a better high availability choice because of the two complete
> copies of the database, and because you can save money by skipping the
> shared
> storage (SCSI in my case).
>
> However, my client likes the redunancy of a cluster for his business data
> as
> well as for Exchange, so he wants a new cluster with shared storage. The
> Microsoft Cluster folks recommend that you stay away from a MNS cluster if
> you can because there's less chance of "losing the quorum". The Exchange
> folks don't necessarily disagree but have offered the MNS option to reduce
> costs and allow for geo clusters.
>
> With this background, I wondered if I can create a standard (not MNS)
> Windows cluster server, put the business data shares on shared storage,
> and
> then install Exchange in a CCR configuration instead of a SCC
> configuration.
> It would put more disks on each node and less shared storage, but for
> better
> reliability that's a small price to pay. Besides, the per-node SAS drives
> are cheaper than the shared Ultra Scsi drives.
>
> The Exchange documentation assumes that the SCC configuration will be used
> with a standard cluster, and the CCR configuration will be used with a MNS
> cluster. However I couldn't find any statement either way about whether
> an
> CCR configuration will work on a standard cluster, and I certainly
> couldn't
> find a statement that it's not a supported configuration.
>
> So I tried it. It turns out that when you try to install Exchange in CCR
> mode, setup complains because it doesn't see the Majority Node Set
> resource.
> However, it's easy to add a File Share Majority Node Set resource to your
> existing quorum group; since the cluster is not a MNS cluster Windows
> ignores
> the resource, but it has no problem if you create it.
>
> With a dummy MNS resource in the cluster to bypass the overly simplistic
> Exchange setup prerequisites check, the actual install worked fine and CCR
> started working flawlessly. Failover and failback work, both from within
> the
> Exchange Management console and from the Cluster Administrator. Nothing
> funny in the event logs. Also, the Exchange Best Practices Analyzer said
> everything was A-OK.
>
> So, if you find yourself with similar requirements, I'm here to tell you
> that all you need to do to get Exchange to install in CCR mode is to
> create a
> dummy MNS resource. You can probably delete it afterwords but I intend to
> leave it so I can install future service packs.
>
> Also, if anybody from the Exchange product team is reading, please fix
> your
> prerequisite checker to allow installation of a CCR mailbox store on any
> working cluster (you don't need any shared storage, so what do you care
> what
> kind of cluster it is)?
>
> Finally, if anybody sees any strong reason to stay away from this scenario
> please let me know. I could alway set up Exchange in SCC mode instead but
> I
> haven't seen anything that says what I'm trying to do is unsupported so
> why
> not get the benefits of CCR?
>
> Regards,
> Mike Gilbert