Dbf files in C:\Program Files in Vista

I have experienced some problems for dbf files in C:\Program Files in Vista.
Commands pack and zap cannot be done for some files, say product.dbf. Thatâ??s
why I donâ??t put dbf files in C:\Program Files in Vista any more.

Stefan
Fri Mar 28 03:47:31 CDT 2008


"William" <William@discussions.microsoft.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:A3BAAFF0-93E1-4135-9956-D706BD227A0C@microsoft.com...
>I have experienced some problems for dbf files in C:\Program Files in Vista.
> Commands pack and zap cannot be done for some files, say product.dbf. That's
> why I don't put dbf files in C:\Program Files in Vista any more.

That's true, but it's the same issue with WinXP and even W2k with any
"Limited User" role. See also http://my.advisor.com/articles.nsf/aid/18897


hth
-Stefan



--
|\_/| ------ ProLib - programmers liberty -----------------
(.. ) Our MVPs and MCPs make the Fox run....
- / See us at www.prolib.de or www.AFPages.de
-----------------------------------------------------------

Cathy
Fri Mar 28 07:45:27 CDT 2008

Doug Hennig wrote a great article about developing FoxPro apps with Vista
and he addresses issues like "where do I put files". I don't have a link off
hand but I'm sure you can do some searching and find it.

Cathy

"William" <William@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A3BAAFF0-93E1-4135-9956-D706BD227A0C@microsoft.com...
>I have experienced some problems for dbf files in C:\Program Files in
>Vista.
> Commands pack and zap cannot be done for some files, say product.dbf. Thatâ??s
> why I donâ??t put dbf files in C:\Program Files in Vista any more.

Man-wai
Fri Mar 28 09:31:15 CDT 2008

Cathy Pountney wrote:
> Doug Hennig wrote a great article about developing FoxPro apps with
> Vista and he addresses issues like "where do I put files". I don't have
> a link off hand but I'm sure you can do some searching and find it.

I wonder whether VFP 9 would have an update to its distribution kit for
Vi$ta.... It might be disastrous for standalone apps to work in Vi$ta....

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.22-14-generic
^ ^ 22:29:01 up 12:35 0 users load average: 1.06 1.08 1.06
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Man-wai
Fri Mar 28 09:32:03 CDT 2008

> That's true, but it's the same issue with WinXP and even W2k with any
> "Limited User" role. See also http://my.advisor.com/articles.nsf/aid/18897

For subscribers only?

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.22-14-generic
^ ^ 22:31:01 up 12:37 0 users load average: 1.05 1.07 1.06
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Stefan
Fri Mar 28 13:13:16 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23pWR8BOkIHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> That's true, but it's the same issue with WinXP and even W2k with any
>> "Limited User" role. See also
>> http://my.advisor.com/articles.nsf/aid/18897
>
> For subscribers only?

No, it's a public article.


-Stefan



--
|\_/| ------ ProLib - programmers liberty -----------------
(.. ) Our MVPs and MCPs make the Fox run....
- / See us at www.prolib.de or www.AFPages.de
-----------------------------------------------------------

Craig
Fri Mar 28 13:41:25 CDT 2008

No, it won't.

--

Craig Berntson
Microsoft MVP

-------------
"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OgE4fBOkIHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> I wonder whether VFP 9 would have an update to its distribution kit for
> Vi$ta.... It might be disastrous for standalone apps to work in Vi$ta....
>
> --
> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.22-14-generic
> ^ ^ 22:29:01 up 12:35 0 users load average: 1.06 1.08 1.06
> ? ? (CSSA):
> http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Man-wai
Sat Mar 29 05:05:37 CDT 2008

Craig Berntson wrote:
> No, it won't.
>

Then the only option is to move to an sql server, even for standalone apps?

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.22-14-generic
^ ^ 18:04:01 up 7:25 1 user load average: 1.00 1.04 1.07
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Stefan
Sat Mar 29 10:40:46 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23lXQtRYkIHA.4480@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> Then the only option is to move to an sql server, even for standalone
> apps?

No, why do you think so?


-Stefan




--
|\_/| ------ ProLib - programmers liberty -----------------
(.. ) Our MVPs and MCPs make the Fox run....
- / See us at www.prolib.de or www.AFPages.de
-----------------------------------------------------------

Paul
Sat Mar 29 12:30:26 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OgE4fBOkIHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Cathy Pountney wrote:
>> Doug Hennig wrote a great article about developing FoxPro apps with Vista
>> and he addresses issues like "where do I put files". I don't have a link
>> off hand but I'm sure you can do some searching and find it.
>
> I wonder whether VFP 9 would have an update to its distribution kit for
> Vi$ta.... It might be disastrous for standalone apps to work in Vi$ta....

That's not necessary. Installers can write to Program Files, but your app
should keep its writable files elsewhere. Program Data, for instance.

Man-wai
Sun Mar 30 00:04:49 CDT 2008

>> Then the only option is to move to an sql server, even for standalone
>> apps?
> No, why do you think so?

Then your app would no longer be standalone, but client-server. The only
problem is distributing and setting up the MSDN engine for localhost
access...

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.22-14-generic
^ ^ 13:02:01 up 48 min 2 users load average: 1.01 1.05 1.23
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Man-wai
Sun Mar 30 00:05:38 CDT 2008

> That's not necessary. Installers can write to Program Files, but your app
> should keep its writable files elsewhere. Program Data, for instance.

c:\Users\public documents?

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.22-14-generic
^ ^ 13:04:01 up 50 min 2 users load average: 1.06 1.07 1.21
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Craig
Mon Mar 31 09:14:07 CDT 2008

Have you tried it? It's very easy to setup SQL Server Express....


And MSDN is not SQL Server. I assume you mean MSDE. It's been replaced with
SQL Server Express.

--

Craig Berntson
Microsoft MVP

-------------
"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23vUrMOikIHA.5368@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> Then your app would no longer be standalone, but client-server. The only
> problem is distributing and setting up the MSDN engine for localhost
> access...
>
> --
> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.22-14-generic
> ^ ^ 13:02:01 up 48 min 2 users load average: 1.01 1.05 1.23
> ? ? (CSSA):
> http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Stefan
Mon Mar 31 12:52:54 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23vUrMOikIHA.5368@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> Then the only option is to move to an sql server, even for standalone
>>> apps?
>> No, why do you think so?
>
> Then your app would no longer be standalone, but client-server. The only
> problem is distributing and setting up the MSDN engine for localhost
> access...

Yes, VFP is a wonderful tool and can connect to its native
DBC/DBF backends or any ODBC database.

But if i got it right, you asked
>>> Then the only option is to move to an sql server, even for standalone
>>> apps?

and that's not the case, you still have the same options - with a VFP
backend, you just may not want to put the Data folder into an NTFS
place where user has no Write privileges; same thing in Vista or WinXP.


-Stefan



--
|\_/| ------ ProLib - programmers liberty -----------------
(.. ) Our MVPs and MCPs make the Fox run....
- / See us at www.prolib.de or www.AFPages.de
-----------------------------------------------------------

Paul
Mon Mar 31 16:35:46 CDT 2008

C:\ProgramData\ is a hidden folder.



"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:O8YopOikIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> That's not necessary. Installers can write to Program Files, but your app
>> should keep its writable files elsewhere. Program Data, for instance.
>
> c:\Users\public documents?
>
> --
> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.22-14-generic
> ^ ^ 13:04:01 up 50 min 2 users load average: 1.06 1.07 1.21
> ? ? (CSSA):
> http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Paul
Mon Mar 31 16:36:52 CDT 2008


"Craig Berntson" <craig@craigberntson.com> wrote in message
news:F9D74DD4-F449-4D86-BEE5-EE8EDF67CD7B@microsoft.com...
> Have you tried it? It's very easy to setup SQL Server Express....

Is it? I hope so; haven't tried it yet. I've used MSDE in the past and
thought it was a pia.

Paul
Mon Mar 31 16:45:07 CDT 2008

Of course you don't want to use that literally. Use CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA
(0x0023) instead.



"Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in message
news:egPosc3kIHA.5660@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> C:\ProgramData\ is a hidden folder.
>
>
>
> "Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:O8YopOikIHA.748@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> That's not necessary. Installers can write to Program Files, but your
>>> app should keep its writable files elsewhere. Program Data, for
>>> instance.
>>
>> c:\Users\public documents?
>>
>> --
>> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.22-14-generic
>> ^ ^ 13:04:01 up 50 min 2 users load average: 1.06 1.07 1.21
>> ? ? (CSSA):
>> http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/
>
>

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 01:58:05 CDT 2008

Thanks!

> Of course you don't want to use that literally. Use CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA
> (0x0023) instead.
>> C:\ProgramData\ is a hidden folder.


--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 14:57:01 up 5:16 2 users load average: 1.04 1.08 1.08
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 01:58:34 CDT 2008

> And MSDN is not SQL Server. I assume you mean MSDE. It's been replaced

yes. typpo...

> with SQL Server Express.



--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 14:57:01 up 5:16 2 users load average: 1.04 1.08 1.08
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 01:59:14 CDT 2008

> Is it? I hope so; haven't tried it yet. I've used MSDE in the past and
> thought it was a pia.

For one user (ie, a typical Foxpro app), it's ok. You could access it
via localhost.


--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 14:58:01 up 5:17 2 users load average: 1.15 1.09 1.09
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 02:00:09 CDT 2008

> Yes, VFP is a wonderful tool and can connect to its native
> DBC/DBF backends or any ODBC database.

It definitely saves more effort to use the native Rushmore engine in
application development...

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 14:58:01 up 5:17 2 users load average: 1.15 1.09 1.09
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 02:02:24 CDT 2008


Wait... I see no CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA in environemnt variable list. Is
it a registry?

F:\>set | findstr /i data
ALLUSERSPROFILE=C:\ProgramData
APPDATA=C:\Users\root\AppData\Roaming
LOCALAPPDATA=C:\Users\root\AppData\Local
ProgramData=C:\ProgramData
TEMP=C:\Users\root\AppData\Local\Temp
TMP=C:\Users\root\AppData\Local\Temp

F:\>set | findstr /i csi

F:\>

> Thanks!
>> Of course you don't want to use that literally. Use
>> CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA (0x0023) instead.


--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 15:00:01 up 5:19 2 users load average: 1.02 1.06 1.08
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Stefan
Tue Apr 01 03:33:14 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u$FFGZ8kIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> Wait... I see no CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA in environemnt variable list. Is it a registry?

CSIDL_* values are constants defined in some C++ standard
*.H files.

#define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023


hth
-Stefan




--
|\_/| ------ ProLib - programmers liberty -----------------
(.. ) Our MVPs and MCPs make the Fox run....
- / See us at www.prolib.de or www.AFPages.de
-----------------------------------------------------------

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 05:25:04 CDT 2008

> CSIDL_* values are constants defined in some C++ standard
> *.H files.
> #define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023

How could Foxpro access that value? Using the same #define line in
source? And could it be shown in a command prompt window?

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 18:23:01 up 31 min 0 users load average: 1.02 1.09 1.05
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Stefan
Tue Apr 01 05:45:15 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%233$JVK%23kIHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> CSIDL_* values are constants defined in some C++ standard
>> *.H files.
>> #define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023
>
> How could Foxpro access that value? Using the same #define line in source? And could it
> be shown in a command prompt window?

Yes, you can put the #define line into an own *.H file or #include
the original *.H ("shlobj.h", I think) or put the #define even directly
into your code (when you need it once only, IOW not likely).

Constants are evaluated at compile time, so their names are not
directly available at runtime in the debugger's Watch Window for
eaxample.
#define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023
Local test
test = CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA
? m.test


hth
-Stefan



--
|\_/| ------ ProLib - programmers liberty -----------------
(.. ) Our MVPs and MCPs make the Fox run....
- / See us at www.prolib.de or www.AFPages.de
-----------------------------------------------------------

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 05:54:28 CDT 2008

> #define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023
> Local test
> test = CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA
> ? m.test

Thanks. Shouldn't you be sleeping? :)

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 18:53:02 up 4 min 0 users load average: 2.30 1.55 0.67
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Stefan
Tue Apr 01 06:18:43 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:elhzwa%23kIHA.1368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> #define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023
>> Local test
>> test = CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA
>> ? m.test
>
> Thanks. Shouldn't you be sleeping? :)

No, but it's lunch time now here, so see you later <s>


-Stefan

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 06:48:03 CDT 2008

>> Thanks. Shouldn't you be sleeping? :)
> No, but it's lunch time now here, so see you later <s>

I just finished my dinner. Chinese style vegetables + fish fillet rice,
with western vegetable soup. :)


--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 19:46:01 up 57 min 0 users load average: 1.14 1.11 1.09
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 06:53:02 CDT 2008

> #define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023
> Local test
> test = CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA
> ? m.test

<um>need VFP 9?</um>

I tried it with VFP 6, under Ultimate Vi$ta.... it printed "35" only.

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 19:51:01 up 1:02 0 users load average: 1.26 1.21 1.12
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Krister
Tue Apr 01 07:38:29 CDT 2008

"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:eoRWf7%23kIHA.4480@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> #define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023
>> Local test
>> test = CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA
>> ? m.test
>
> <um>need VFP 9?</um>
>
> I tried it with VFP 6, under Ultimate Vi$ta.... it printed "35" only.
>
> --
> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
> ^ ^ 19:51:01 up 1:02 0 users load average: 1.26 1.21 1.12
> ? ? (CSSA):
> http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

I use the function below to fetch the foldernames. You can test it with ?
commondirs(35).
Hth
Krister

*!* function commondirs
parameters nFolderid, lCreatenew
local lcFolder, nRetval
if vartype(nFolderid) <> "N"
return ""
endif
lnfolder = nFolderid
if vartype(lCreatenew) = "L" and lCreatenew
lnfolder = lnfolder + 32768
endif
lcFolder = space(260)
declare integer SHGetFolderPath in "shfolder.dll" as _FFC_SHGetFolderPath ;
integer, integer, integer, integer, string
nRetval = _FFC_SHGetFolderPath(0,lnfolder,0,0,@lcFolder)
clear dlls '_FFC_SHGETFOLDERPATH'
if nRetval <> 0
return ""
endif
return alltrim(chrtran(lcFolder, chr(0), ""))

Man-wai
Tue Apr 01 09:06:13 CDT 2008

>>> #define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023
> *!* function commondirs

Local m.test
m.test = CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA
? m.test
? commondirs(CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA)

It printed "C:\ProgramData". That's it?


--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 22:04:01 up 3:15 0 users load average: 1.06 1.16 1.13
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Craig
Tue Apr 01 09:26:00 CDT 2008

As opposed to what? SQL Server is just as fast as VFP. I'm sure other
databases are too.

--

Craig Berntson
Microsoft MVP

-------------
"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eDO51X8kIHA.2368@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> It definitely saves more effort to use the native Rushmore engine in
> application development...

Craig
Tue Apr 01 09:26:56 CDT 2008

It's only hidden until the user chooses to view hidden and system files.

--

Craig Berntson
Microsoft MVP

-------------
"Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in message
news:egPosc3kIHA.5660@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> C:\ProgramData\ is a hidden folder.

Paul
Tue Apr 01 10:08:08 CDT 2008

Man-wai Chang ToDie <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in
news:#lXQtRYkIHA.4480@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl:

> Craig Berntson wrote:
> Then the only option is to move to an sql server, even for standalone
> apps?

Thats not an option when price is a consideration for many small
businesses - or do you plan to give away your app?
Many of my small business customers don't know what an SQL server
is - they want just to put in the CD and install the thing.

Small business customers do not care whether it is not written for sql
server or foxpro. They care that it works and is easily serviced.

For our own design needs I put the app in a c:\Somedirectory
and have no problem with vista. I use a different installer.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee ........ Abri Technologies ........ http://www.abri.com/
'Recover' - top rated FoxPro file repair utility.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Paul
Tue Apr 01 17:05:40 CDT 2008

If they know enough to do that, they should know enough not to break things.

"Craig Berntson" <craig@craigberntson.com> wrote in message
news:6A06BB70-E2B1-476D-BA12-19D2A7948397@microsoft.com...
> It's only hidden until the user chooses to view hidden and system files.
>
> --
>
> Craig Berntson
> Microsoft MVP
>
> -------------
> "Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:egPosc3kIHA.5660@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> C:\ProgramData\ is a hidden folder.
>

Gene
Tue Apr 01 20:24:14 CDT 2008

"Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote:

>If they know enough to do that, they should know enough not to break things.

"should" is such a pretty word. It does not work that well, but
it is pretty.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

Krister
Wed Apr 02 03:44:28 CDT 2008

"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:uSfu5FAlIHA.2368@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> #define CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA 0x0023
>> *!* function commondirs
>
> Local m.test
> m.test = CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA
> ? m.test
> ? commondirs(CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA)
>
> It printed "C:\ProgramData". That's it?
>
>
> --
> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
> ^ ^ 22:04:01 up 3:15 0 users load average: 1.06 1.16 1.13
> ? ? (CSSA):
> http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Yep - that's it, for this folder. Try this to see more:

for ii=1 to 255
sFoldername = commondirs(ii)
if !Empty(sFoldername)
? ii
?? '=' + sFoldername
endif
next

Man-wai
Wed Apr 02 04:22:27 CDT 2008

> Yep - that's it, for this folder. Try this to see more:
> for ii=1 to 255
> sFoldername = commondirs(ii)
> if !Empty(sFoldername)
> ? ii
> ?? '=' + sFoldername
> endif
> next

Thanks. Could I safely assume that I could build a VFP 6 app to assume
that folder would always be writable by my app?

Note that 6's installer builder is different from 9, which is more advanced.


--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 17:20:01 up 22:31 1 user load average: 1.01 1.02 1.00
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Craig
Wed Apr 02 10:34:46 CDT 2008

SQL Server Express is free and easy to install.

As for putting files in C:\Somedirectory... you are bypassing some of the
security features in Vista that were put there for good reason. Malware
could more easily attach itself to your EXE. Your customers could blame you
if that happens. You need to decide if the risk is worth it for you and your
business.

--

Craig Berntson
Microsoft MVP

-------------
"Paul Lee" <no@spam.please> wrote in message
news:Xns9A735CEFDAEAAJD0MS@207.46.248.16...
> Man-wai Chang ToDie <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:#lXQtRYkIHA.4480@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl:
>
> Thats not an option when price is a consideration for many small
> businesses - or do you plan to give away your app?
> Many of my small business customers don't know what an SQL server
> is - they want just to put in the CD and install the thing.
>
> Small business customers do not care whether it is not written for sql
> server or foxpro. They care that it works and is easily serviced.
>
> For our own design needs I put the app in a c:\Somedirectory
> and have no problem with vista. I use a different installer.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Paul Lee ........ Abri Technologies ........ http://www.abri.com/
> 'Recover' - top rated FoxPro file repair utility.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------

Paul
Wed Apr 02 12:13:23 CDT 2008

"Craig Berntson" <craig@craigberntson.com> wrote in
news:C6C6FB3E-73CB-477F-AA15-8CC16E60A87D@microsoft.com:

> SQL Server Express is free and easy to install.

But is another step for non-technical personel and I am then obliged to
maintain another piece of software since "I had them install it". Its
like putting more free features - they blame you for any of its problems.
These customers will sometimes delete files for no logical reason. One
directory is very easy to backup and restore and get back operational
after a disk crash or anything.

That begs the question. Why have use the extra MS-SQL layer. My customers
run for years without problems. Is it guaranteed that MS-SQL is bullet
proof? I think the MS-SQL fad is overated for many apps that do not need
it.

> As for putting files in C:\Somedirectory... you are bypassing some of
> the security features in Vista that were put there for good reason.
> Malware could more easily attach itself to your EXE.

MS is constantly battling hackers with additional Windows updates. Bill
Gates could have lowered the risk if he stuck with unix type OS instead
of DOS.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee ........ Abri Technologies ........ http://www.abri.com/
'Recover' - top rated FoxPro file repair utility.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Paul
Wed Apr 02 13:36:30 CDT 2008


"Paul Lee" <no@spam.please> wrote in message
news:Xns9A74722EFB0C9JD0MS@207.46.248.16...

> That begs the question. Why have use the extra MS-SQL layer. My customers
> run for years without problems. Is it guaranteed that MS-SQL is bullet
> proof? I think the MS-SQL fad is overated for many apps that do not need
> it.

The main reason I would consider a different back end is for security. If
there were easy-to-use encryption for dbfs, that would solve my problem
without resorting to another back end.

In fact, it would be BETTER for me, because MSSQL files themselves are not
encrypted. Someone with access to the computer where those files are kept,
could read the data.

Really, encryption is what I need for certain apps. Simply encrypting the
data isn't good enough though. I don't want hackers to even be able to see
field names or count records.

Paul
Wed Apr 02 13:39:21 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message news:Oy5M%

> Note that 6's installer builder is different from 9, which is more
> advanced.


I barely remember the one from VFP6. MS replace it with a limited version of
InstallShield with VFP7.

I switched from InstallShield to Inno Setup a while ago, and realized
several advantages. I've also heard that NSIS is good too, but I haven't
used it.

Paul
Wed Apr 02 13:40:08 CDT 2008


"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
news:dsn5v3lbfjs2emq1qqr4h7ohnh5josv5m6@4ax.com...
> "Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote:
>
>>If they know enough to do that, they should know enough not to break
>>things.
>
> "should" is such a pretty word. It does not work that well, but

Well, it should.

Man-wai
Wed Apr 02 23:00:06 CDT 2008

> SQL Server Express is free and easy to install.

1. Is it possible to build a VFP 6/9 AppSetup.exe that includes the
installation of MSDE? Anyone attempted it?

2. Would it break the license even though MSDE is free?

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 11:58:01 up 1 day 17:09 1 user load average: 1.04 1.05 1.01
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Man-wai
Wed Apr 02 23:01:24 CDT 2008

> I barely remember the one from VFP6. MS replace it with a limited version of
> InstallShield with VFP7.

As long as X:\ProgramData is world-writable, it will be fine...

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.10) Linux 2.6.24.4
^ ^ 12:00:01 up 1 day 17:11 1 user load average: 1.09 1.07 1.01
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Paul
Thu Apr 03 07:24:00 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Os9$c8TlIHA.3780@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> SQL Server Express is free and easy to install.
>
> 1. Is it possible to build a VFP 6/9 AppSetup.exe that includes the
> installation of MSDE? Anyone attempted it?

I have not tried to put them both together, but it should be doable. I'd try
with Inno though, instead of InstallShield.

Also, MSDE is old now. Might as well use the new one, Express.


>
> 2. Would it break the license even though MSDE is free?

I doubt it. They want you to use it (and get people hooked on SQL Server);
that's why it's free. But read the license.

Paul
Thu Apr 03 07:25:22 CDT 2008


"Man-wai Chang ToDie" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uQCzL9TlIHA.3780@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> I barely remember the one from VFP6. MS replace it with a limited version
>> of InstallShield with VFP7.
>
> As long as X:\ProgramData is world-writable, it will be fine...

Should be OK, although you might have to set permissions when you install.

Read Doug Hennig's papers on VFP in Vista.

Craig
Thu Apr 03 11:00:03 CDT 2008

The key line is your statement is, "My customers run for years without
problems." If that's the case, then keep using DBFs, but for thousands of
other VFP apps, something other than DBFs is needed.

"But is another step for non-technical personel" Nope. You can make it part
of your install process and the user doesn't do anything differently.

"MS is constantly battling hackers with additional Windows updates. Bill
Gates could have lowered the risk if he stuck with unix type OS instead
of DOS." I think you need to do some serious research on what's going on
with software security these days. Linux, Mac, and Unix have their share of
security issues. According to Symantec, Windows is more secure than the
others and on the average, Microsoft patches faster than others.

--

Craig Berntson
Microsoft MVP

-------------
"Paul Lee" <no@spam.please> wrote in message
news:Xns9A74722EFB0C9JD0MS@207.46.248.16...
> "Craig Berntson" <craig@craigberntson.com> wrote in
> news:C6C6FB3E-73CB-477F-AA15-8CC16E60A87D@microsoft.com:
>
>> SQL Server Express is free and easy to install.
>
> But is another step for non-technical personel and I am then obliged to
> maintain another piece of software since "I had them install it". Its
> like putting more free features - they blame you for any of its problems.
> These customers will sometimes delete files for no logical reason. One
> directory is very easy to backup and restore and get back operational
> after a disk crash or anything.
>
> That begs the question. Why have use the extra MS-SQL layer. My customers
> run for years without problems. Is it guaranteed that MS-SQL is bullet
> proof? I think the MS-SQL fad is overated for many apps that do not need
> it.
>
>> As for putting files in C:\Somedirectory... you are bypassing some of
>> the security features in Vista that were put there for good reason.
>> Malware could more easily attach itself to your EXE.
>
> MS is constantly battling hackers with additional Windows updates. Bill
> Gates could have lowered the risk if he stuck with unix type OS instead
> of DOS.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Paul Lee ........ Abri Technologies ........ http://www.abri.com/
> 'Recover' - top rated FoxPro file repair utility.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------

Paul
Tue Apr 22 11:06:03 CDT 2008

"Craig Berntson" <craig@craigberntson.com> wrote in
news:F7A2249C-7118-4602-9945-0283C2FAFC28@microsoft.com:

>........According to Symantec, Windows is more
> secure than the others and on the average, Microsoft patches faster
> than others.
>

I am sure that Symantec wants that idea to continue since they
make their money on Windows products and not linux.

For more info look at
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/06/linux_vs_windows_viruses/

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee ........ Abri Technologies ........ http://www.abri.com/
'Recover' - top rated FoxPro file repair utility.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Paul
Tue Apr 22 11:18:50 CDT 2008

"Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in
news:##0lzBPlIHA.5280@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:


> The main reason I would consider a different back end (MS-SQL) is for
security.
> If there were easy-to-use encryption for dbfs, that would solve my
> problem without resorting to another back end.
>
> In fact, it would be BETTER for me, because MSSQL files themselves are
> not encrypted. Someone with access to the computer where those files
> are kept, could read the data.
>

Security is relative to user group. A lot of small business software is
user by JohnDoes with low PC skills - dentist, hair salon, pawnshop, etc.
etc. and typically not connected to internet. "Hacker skill" employees
would likely make better money elsewhere. A simple password system will
deter 99.9999% of security problems. The security issue is sometimes way
overated or artificial - like Bushe's Iraq war security excuse.

Banks, large corps, governments are a different ballgame.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee ........ Abri Technologies ........ http://www.abri.com/
'Recover' - top rated FoxPro file repair utility.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Paul
Tue Apr 22 11:42:09 CDT 2008


"Paul Lee" <no@spam.please> wrote in message
news:Xns9A887332F16A9JD0MS@207.46.248.16...
> "Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in
> news:##0lzBPlIHA.5280@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>
>
>> The main reason I would consider a different back end (MS-SQL) is for
> security.
>> If there were easy-to-use encryption for dbfs, that would solve my
>> problem without resorting to another back end.
>>
>> In fact, it would be BETTER for me, because MSSQL files themselves are
>> not encrypted. Someone with access to the computer where those files
>> are kept, could read the data.
>>
>
> Security is relative to user group. A lot of small business software is
> user by JohnDoes with low PC skills - dentist, hair salon, pawnshop, etc.
> etc. and typically not connected to internet. "Hacker skill" employees
> would likely make better money elsewhere. A simple password system will
> deter 99.9999% of security problems. The security issue is sometimes way
> overated or artificial - like Bushe's Iraq war security excuse.
>
> Banks, large corps, governments are a different ballgame.
>

Unfortunately, in the current situation, computers on the network are
available to some knowledgeable people, who could easily find and read dbfs.
There have been some intimations of spying for business purposes, and I need
to counter that.

Like I said, decent encryption would do the trick. Other than that, I may
have to rework the app to use MSSQL, and keep the data files in a restricted
location on a server. I don't know Windows Server as well as I need to, to
do that properly.

Paul
Tue Apr 22 11:47:50 CDT 2008


"Paul Lee" <no@spam.please> wrote in message
news:Xns9A88710842066JD0MS@207.46.248.16...
> "Craig Berntson" <craig@craigberntson.com> wrote in
> news:F7A2249C-7118-4602-9945-0283C2FAFC28@microsoft.com:
>
>>........According to Symantec, Windows is more
>> secure than the others and on the average, Microsoft patches faster
>> than others.
>>
>
> I am sure that Symantec wants that idea to continue since they
> make their money on Windows products and not linux.
>
> For more info look at
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/06/linux_vs_windows_viruses/
>

2003 - pretty old article. And Vista eliminates many of the problems the
article mentions.

I'm not taking sides here, I'm just sayin'.

Rush
Tue Apr 22 12:14:08 CDT 2008

Paul Pedersen wrote:
> "Paul Lee" <no@spam.please> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A88710842066JD0MS@207.46.248.16...
>
>> "Craig Berntson" <craig@craigberntson.com> wrote in
>> news:F7A2249C-7118-4602-9945-0283C2FAFC28@microsoft.com:
>>
>>
>>> ........According to Symantec, Windows is more
>>> secure than the others and on the average, Microsoft patches faster
>>> than others.
>>>
>>>
>> I am sure that Symantec wants that idea to continue since they
>> make their money on Windows products and not linux.
>>
>> For more info look at
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/06/linux_vs_windows_viruses/
>>
>>
>
> 2003 - pretty old article. And Vista eliminates many of the problems the
> article mentions.
>
> I'm not taking sides here, I'm just sayin'.
>

It may be old, but its concepts still apply. And while Vista may attack
some of the problems, there is still one helluva number of users
sticking to XP (myself included).

I'm also just sayin.'

- Rush

Paul
Fri Apr 25 11:59:42 CDT 2008

"Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in
news:OPwmMfJpIHA.4736@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
>
> Unfortunately, in the current situation, computers on the network are
> available to some knowledgeable people, who could easily find and read
> dbfs. ...

Let me clarify my point. The question is not what "could" be but what is
"likely". For large corps and govs, spies have the incentive. But for a lot
of JohnDoe businesses there is nothing in it for them. This fear idea is a
hangover of Bush's "I'll protect you from terrorists" mentality. Funny:
terrorists killing a few hundred/yr is "big problem", but 15K+ US
homocides/yr is hardly mentioned - "no problem". Same mentality here with
DBF's. I have been marketing PawnShop software with DBFs for over 12 years
and have yet to hear of a spy security problem.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee ........ Abri Technologies ........ http://www.abri.com/
'Recover' - top rated FoxPro file repair utility.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Paul
Fri Apr 25 12:08:11 CDT 2008


"Paul Lee" <no@spam.please> wrote in message
news:Xns9A8B7A257ECDCJD0MS@207.46.248.16...
> "Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in
> news:OPwmMfJpIHA.4736@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
>>
>> Unfortunately, in the current situation, computers on the network are
>> available to some knowledgeable people, who could easily find and read
>> dbfs. ...
>
> Let me clarify my point. The question is not what "could" be but what is
> "likely". For large corps and govs, spies have the incentive. But for a
> lot
> of JohnDoe businesses there is nothing in it for them. This fear idea is a
> hangover of Bush's "I'll protect you from terrorists" mentality. Funny:
> terrorists killing a few hundred/yr is "big problem", but 15K+ US
> homocides/yr is hardly mentioned - "no problem". Same mentality here with
> DBF's. I have been marketing PawnShop software with DBFs for over 12 years
> and have yet to hear of a spy security problem.

It seems to me that a pawn shop might have one or two computers, in close
proximity to each other, and only a couple employees, with no non-employees
even standing next to the company's computers. Not so true in this case, so
it's more difficult to physically see who's doing what.

I'll be making some changes to help, but like I said, if I can't get good
dbf encryption, I'll have to switch to a secure back end.