http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm

Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Man-wai

Man-wai
Mon Jun 05 05:59:28 CDT 2006

Claude Fox wrote:
> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm

I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people other
than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Claude

Claude
Mon Jun 05 06:21:52 CDT 2006

You don't think MS marketing(the lack thereof) has anything to do with this.
My prediction is that the new Open Source initiatives will carry vfp to new
heights of popularity..
"Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Claude Fox wrote:
>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>
> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people other
> than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>
> --
> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Man-wai

Man-wai
Mon Jun 05 07:33:53 CDT 2006

Claude Fox wrote:
> You don't think MS marketing(the lack thereof) has anything to do with this.
> My prediction is that the new Open Source initiatives will carry vfp to new
> heights of popularity..

There is no one doing an open-sourced version of Foxpro.

The cloest ones are xHarbour and Harbour-Project.

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
^ ^ 20:32:01 up 2 days 3:37 0 users load average: 1.13 1.22 1.09
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Brett

Brett
Mon Jun 05 10:45:26 CDT 2006

Yes, by manipulating the results. Gee. Cheating works - what a shocker!
http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~GettingGoogledForTheTiobeMetricsCount


"Claude Fox" <cfuchs@activevfp.com> wrote in message
news:%23curV5IiGHA.1260@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Cindy

Cindy
Mon Jun 05 12:01:41 CDT 2006

Hi Man-wai Chang,

I think he's referring to the open source add-ons and replacements (for the
project manager for example) that are going on in the SednaX area of
GotDotNet.

Of course, the Fox community has always shared code so this is nothing new.

--
Cindy Winegarden MCSD, Microsoft Most Valuable Professional
cindy@cindywinegarden.com


"Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23BLGNxJiGHA.1000@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Claude Fox wrote:
>> You don't think MS marketing(the lack thereof) has anything to do with
>> this. My prediction is that the new Open Source initiatives will carry
>> vfp to new heights of popularity..
>
> There is no one doing an open-sourced version of Foxpro.
>
> The cloest ones are xHarbour and Harbour-Project.



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Claude

Claude
Mon Jun 05 13:07:18 CDT 2006

Regardless (and I don't know if any cheating really is affecting results)
it's nice publicity for VFP ...
"Brett Wickard" <brettwickard@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:OFCfiaLiGHA.1612@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Yes, by manipulating the results. Gee. Cheating works - what a shocker!
> http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~GettingGoogledForTheTiobeMetricsCount
>
>
> "Claude Fox" <cfuchs@activevfp.com> wrote in message
> news:%23curV5IiGHA.1260@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Claude

Claude
Mon Jun 05 13:06:09 CDT 2006

And also SednaY: http://codegallery.gotdotnet.com/SednaY
And, of course, it's a little more than just file sharing :)

"Cindy Winegarden" <cindy@cindywinegarden.com> wrote in message
news:ejXhOHMiGHA.3588@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Hi Man-wai Chang,
>
> I think he's referring to the open source add-ons and replacements (for
> the project manager for example) that are going on in the SednaX area of
> GotDotNet.
>
> Of course, the Fox community has always shared code so this is nothing
> new.
>
> --
> Cindy Winegarden MCSD, Microsoft Most Valuable Professional
> cindy@cindywinegarden.com
>
>
> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23BLGNxJiGHA.1000@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>> You don't think MS marketing(the lack thereof) has anything to do with
>>> this. My prediction is that the new Open Source initiatives will carry
>>> vfp to new heights of popularity..
>>
>> There is no one doing an open-sourced version of Foxpro.
>>
>> The cloest ones are xHarbour and Harbour-Project.
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Paul

Paul
Mon Jun 05 16:12:53 CDT 2006

We, the Special Ones, have always known that. <g>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Fred

Fred
Mon Jun 05 16:11:09 CDT 2006

And this is different than other "statistic analysis", how?

--
Fred
Microsoft Visual FoxPro MVP


"Brett Wickard" <brettwickard@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:OFCfiaLiGHA.1612@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Yes, by manipulating the results. Gee. Cheating works - what a shocker!
> http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~GettingGoogledForTheTiobeMetricsCount
>
>
> "Claude Fox" <cfuchs@activevfp.com> wrote in message
> news:%23curV5IiGHA.1260@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Ook

Ook
Tue Jun 06 22:36:24 CDT 2006

Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP is
planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who is
starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older Fox apps? How many
existing VFP apps are being replaced with other platforms? Tiobe's ratings
are not consistent with what is happening in the rest of the world.


"Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Claude Fox wrote:
>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>
> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people other
> than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>
> --
> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Man-wai

Man-wai
Wed Jun 07 02:45:22 CDT 2006

Ook wrote:
> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP is
> planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who is
> starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older Fox apps? How many
> existing VFP apps are being replaced with other platforms? Tiobe's ratings
> are not consistent with what is happening in the rest of the world.

On the other hand, Foxpro is a good and interactive tool for beginners
to explore RDBMS technology. It may not be a bad idea to use Foxpro in
junior and high schools.

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.20
^ ^ 15:43:01 up 1 day 1:26 0 users load average: 1.00 1.01 1.14
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Bla

Bla
Wed Jun 07 07:14:15 CDT 2006

So, what is happening in the rest of the world?
What platform will it be? Which tool would you recommend to a new age
programmer? Believe it or not, I'm stuck with Clipper.


"Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:OdqXOOeiGHA.4304@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP
is
> planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who is
> starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older Fox apps? How many
> existing VFP apps are being replaced with other platforms? Tiobe's ratings
> are not consistent with what is happening in the rest of the world.
>
>
> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> > Claude Fox wrote:
> >> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
> >
> > I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people other
> > than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
> >
> > --
> > .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
> > / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> > /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
> > ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
> > news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Dan

Dan
Wed Jun 07 10:53:31 CDT 2006

Don't knock Clipper. We still have customers using a Clipper S/86 app.

Dan

Bla wrote:
> So, what is happening in the rest of the world?
> What platform will it be? Which tool would you recommend to a new age
> programmer? Believe it or not, I'm stuck with Clipper.
>
>
> "Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:OdqXOOeiGHA.4304@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using
>> VFP is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP
>> work. Who is starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older
>> Fox apps? How many existing VFP apps are being replaced with other
>> platforms? Tiobe's ratings are not consistent with what is happening
>> in the rest of the world.
>>
>>
>> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>>
>>> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people
>>> other than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>>>
>>> --
>>> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>>> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>>> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>>> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
>>> news://news.newsgroup.com.hk



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Dan

Dan
Wed Jun 07 11:02:35 CDT 2006

I know many shops that tried to replace FP apps with VB/SQL-server many
years ago and failed utterly because it's an inappropriate platform for that
particular app. They're all trying to use .NET to do the same today. They
didn't learn from history.

A lot of people *say* they're replacing VFP apps. But not many actually get
the job done.

Dan

Ook wrote:
> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using
> VFP is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP
> work. Who is starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older
> Fox apps? How many existing VFP apps are being replaced with other
> platforms? Tiobe's ratings are not consistent with what is happening
> in the rest of the world.
>
>
> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>
>> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people
>> other than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>>
>> --
>> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
>> news://news.newsgroup.com.hk



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Brett

Brett
Wed Jun 07 12:42:19 CDT 2006

You're right it isn't increasing. It's a bummer because I love VFP, but for
my own company I chose C# for the next version of my primary application.
And, so far I've been ecstatic. Don't get me wrong, I hate learning a new
language and all, but C# is so much more elegant and robust, it's silly.

Want some proof as to how much our community manipulated the results? Check
out google trends for searches on visual foxpro. Looks like searches are
down about 30-50 percent over 2 years. Similar results for foxpro
http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22visual+foxpro%22
http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22foxpro%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Ok, let's compare C# and VFP on the same chart
http://www.google.com/trends?q=c%23%2Cfoxpro&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

What is the ratio like 30 to 1 or something?

VFP still kicks butt and I'll use it and support it, but won't do any brand
new development in it.




"Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:OdqXOOeiGHA.4304@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP
> is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who
> is starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older Fox apps? How
> many existing VFP apps are being replaced with other platforms? Tiobe's
> ratings are not consistent with what is happening in the rest of the
> world.
>
>
> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>
>> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people other
>> than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>>
>> --
>> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by AA

AA
Wed Jun 07 13:07:23 CDT 2006

Using C# to develop database systems you would start by building a library
of functions for that purpose. Well, FoxPro is a library of functions for
that purpose, written in C++.
-Anders

"Brett Wickard" <brettwickard@nospam.nospam> skrev i meddelandet
news:e99nIlliGHA.4284@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> You're right it isn't increasing. It's a bummer because I love VFP, but
> for my own company I chose C# for the next version of my primary
> application. And, so far I've been ecstatic. Don't get me wrong, I hate
> learning a new language and all, but C# is so much more elegant and
> robust, it's silly.
>
> Want some proof as to how much our community manipulated the results?
> Check out google trends for searches on visual foxpro. Looks like
> searches are down about 30-50 percent over 2 years. Similar results for
> foxpro
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22visual+foxpro%22
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22foxpro%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all
>
> Ok, let's compare C# and VFP on the same chart
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=c%23%2Cfoxpro&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all
>
> What is the ratio like 30 to 1 or something?
>
> VFP still kicks butt and I'll use it and support it, but won't do any
> brand new development in it.
>
>
>
>
> "Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:OdqXOOeiGHA.4304@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP
>> is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who
>> is starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older Fox apps? How
>> many existing VFP apps are being replaced with other platforms? Tiobe's
>> ratings are not consistent with what is happening in the rest of the
>> world.
>>
>>
>> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>>
>>> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people other
>>> than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>>>
>>> --
>>> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>>> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>>> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>>> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
>>> news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
>>
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Ook

Ook
Wed Jun 07 20:22:30 CDT 2006

I've seen shops succeed in replacing Fox with VB/SQL, but it was a lot of
work. VB just can't do what VFP can as quick and as easy and with as few
lines of code. Hello, inheritance? VB just didn't (doesn't) have it. I'm
also seeing c# sucessfully replacing VFP apps. But again, it's a lot of
work, and it's much more complex because C# can't crunch data like VFP can.
The functionality just isn't there. Plus, designing a large app in C# is
more complex then doing the same thing in VFP. I'm in a shop right now
replacing a very large VFP app with c#. They will spend a lot more doing it
in c# then in VFP, and the end result will be an app where the forms are
sluggish compared to VFP, the data crunching is slower compared to VFP, and
overall just doesn't have the VFP snap to it.

"Dan Freeman" <spam@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:uK1tLvkiGHA.1936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I know many shops that tried to replace FP apps with VB/SQL-server many
> years ago and failed utterly because it's an inappropriate platform for
> that
> particular app. They're all trying to use .NET to do the same today. They
> didn't learn from history.
>
> A lot of people *say* they're replacing VFP apps. But not many actually
> get
> the job done.
>
> Dan
>
> Ook wrote:
>> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using
>> VFP is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP
>> work. Who is starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older
>> Fox apps? How many existing VFP apps are being replaced with other
>> platforms? Tiobe's ratings are not consistent with what is happening
>> in the rest of the world.
>>
>>
>> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>>
>>> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people
>>> other than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>>>
>>> --
>>> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>>> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>>> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>>> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
>>> news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Ook

Ook
Wed Jun 07 20:25:13 CDT 2006

Clipper was OK in it's day...um...like about 15 years ago.But you ask an
excellent question. What is out there that we can develop stuff in? If you
are going the Microsoft way, then it's dot not and sql server. There is
nothing else. If you don't go the Microsoft way, what are you going to use?
Java? Perl/php/mysql? You can do a lot with Java, but it is not likely to be
very robust. I've seen a very moderately large Java app fail, to the tune of
millions of dollars, because it was a gutless pig and the users refused to
use it. They spent a lot of time and money trying to get it up to speed, and
just could not. They scrapped it. 2 years and millions of dollars down the
drain.


"Bla" <abcd@zg.t-com.hr> wrote in message
news:e66fuj$38m$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
> So, what is happening in the rest of the world?
> What platform will it be? Which tool would you recommend to a new age
> programmer? Believe it or not, I'm stuck with Clipper.
>
>
> "Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:OdqXOOeiGHA.4304@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP
> is
>> planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who is
>> starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older Fox apps? How many
>> existing VFP apps are being replaced with other platforms? Tiobe's
>> ratings
>> are not consistent with what is happening in the rest of the world.
>>
>>
>> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> > Claude Fox wrote:
>> >> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>> >
>> > I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people other
>> > than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>> >
>> > --
>> > .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>> > / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>> > /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>> > ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>> > news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
> news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
>>
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Claude

Claude
Thu Jun 08 06:53:26 CDT 2006

Well this is my whole point. .NET may be a little better in some areas,
but, nothing earth shattering. And VFP is still better in many areas as you
and others have said. So why the move for many to .NET? - it's simply
because MS is pushing it and not VFP. MS can't make alot of money on VFP.
That the reality for MS and alot of people have to be in lock step with
that. That's also why I like Open Source - the community can keep improving
VFP even if MS kills or does nothing with it. And who knows, maybe it will
actually increase in popularity because of it. PHP has not done bad as an
Open Source product :)

"Brett Wickard" <brettwickard@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:e99nIlliGHA.4284@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> You're right it isn't increasing. It's a bummer because I love VFP, but
> for my own company I chose C# for the next version of my primary
> application. And, so far I've been ecstatic. Don't get me wrong, I hate
> learning a new language and all, but C# is so much more elegant and
> robust, it's silly.
>
> Want some proof as to how much our community manipulated the results?
> Check out google trends for searches on visual foxpro. Looks like
> searches are down about 30-50 percent over 2 years. Similar results for
> foxpro
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22visual+foxpro%22
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22foxpro%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all
>
> Ok, let's compare C# and VFP on the same chart
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=c%23%2Cfoxpro&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all
>
> What is the ratio like 30 to 1 or something?
>
> VFP still kicks butt and I'll use it and support it, but won't do any
> brand new development in it.
>
>
>
>
> "Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:OdqXOOeiGHA.4304@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP
>> is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who
>> is starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older Fox apps? How
>> many existing VFP apps are being replaced with other platforms? Tiobe's
>> ratings are not consistent with what is happening in the rest of the
>> world.
>>
>>
>> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>>
>>> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people other
>>> than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>>>
>>> --
>>> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>>> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>>> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>>> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
>>> news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
>>
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Paul

Paul
Thu Jun 08 12:55:39 CDT 2006


"Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:OdqXOOeiGHA.4304@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP
> is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who
> is starting new VFP projects,

I am. Four in the last four years, more on the way.





Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Paul

Paul
Thu Jun 08 12:57:44 CDT 2006

Good point.


"AA" <A@A> wrote in message news:eLCeu5niGHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Using C# to develop database systems you would start by building a library
> of functions for that purpose. Well, FoxPro is a library of functions for
> that purpose, written in C++.
> -Anders
>
> "Brett Wickard" <brettwickard@nospam.nospam> skrev i meddelandet
> news:e99nIlliGHA.4284@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> You're right it isn't increasing. It's a bummer because I love VFP, but
>> for my own company I chose C# for the next version of my primary
>> application. And, so far I've been ecstatic. Don't get me wrong, I hate
>> learning a new language and all, but C# is so much more elegant and
>> robust, it's silly.
>>
>> Want some proof as to how much our community manipulated the results?
>> Check out google trends for searches on visual foxpro. Looks like
>> searches are down about 30-50 percent over 2 years. Similar results for
>> foxpro
>> http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22visual+foxpro%22
>> http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22foxpro%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all
>>
>> Ok, let's compare C# and VFP on the same chart
>> http://www.google.com/trends?q=c%23%2Cfoxpro&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all
>>
>> What is the ratio like 30 to 1 or something?
>>
>> VFP still kicks butt and I'll use it and support it, but won't do any
>> brand new development in it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:OdqXOOeiGHA.4304@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP
>>> is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who
>>> is starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older Fox apps? How
>>> many existing VFP apps are being replaced with other platforms? Tiobe's
>>> ratings are not consistent with what is happening in the rest of the
>>> world.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>>>
>>>> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people other
>>>> than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>>>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>>>> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>>>> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>>>> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
>>>> news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by HerbertDB

HerbertDB
Thu Jun 08 21:52:26 CDT 2006

I have seen a lot of job opening for FoxPro developers
this year as compared to the last year in our country.


"Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in message
news:%2374kATyiGHA.4504@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> "Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:OdqXOOeiGHA.4304@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using VFP
>> is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP work. Who
>> is starting new VFP projects,
>
> I am. Four in the last four years, more on the way.
>
>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Brett

Brett
Fri Jun 09 11:23:03 CDT 2006

Then your C# programmers don't know what they're doing :) In my opinion,
designing a large app in C# is not "more complex" than the same thing in
VFP -- it so much easier it's silly. Rather than talk in generalities as we
all are, I'll mention specifics as I see them and please set me straight
with concrete examples where I'm wrong --- that way maybe all of us can
learn advantages the other language may have that we're not aware of --- for
instance that app that I'm still supporting in VFP was done in VFP 8.0, so
maybe there was a feature I missed in 9.0 (I've got VFP9.0 and used it a
decent amount but the app is not built in it) that is now out there.

Ok for C#, here are the "large app" things that I like that I don't believe
VFP has:
1. Namespaces. It is a convenient way to organize your objects within a
large app. Especially when you have multiple developers working on it.
2. Business Objects. Bridge the world between OOP and your relation DB.
3. Refactoring. Can be addictive... make your code way more readable and
help correct programmer naming errors.
4. Easy way to add hints to your objects as you make them.
5. Can use many of the same objects -easily- for a desktop and a web app.
6. Excellent add-on tools and libraries. (some free, some not). With like
literally 3 lines of code I added a pivot grid to a form that kicks Excel's
butt.
7. C#.NET can "crunch data" much faster than VFP to an enterprise backend.
Performance of connection to SQL Server is FASTER than VFP is capable of.
Don't believe it? It's very easy to test. When I call a SP from C# and
call the same one in VFP, the performance is much better in C# because of
the lower overhead of the connection. Easy way to try it: Make a SP that
does a simple insert to a table (that's what mine does)...call it 1000 times
from VFP and 1000 times from C# and you'll see that C# is at least 50%
faster.
8. C# is OOP. I'm sure your comment about VB with inheritence was
referring to VB6 (which came out how many years ago?) all of the VB.NET's
(i.e. starting in 2002) have had inheritence.
9. The development environment is so much more productive and
bug-preventitive than VFPs. How? Well the compiler catches many potential
bugs (i.e. strong typing/unitialized variables/etc.) and C# was designed to
prevent common development bugs (primarily through syntax).
10. Excellent performance. C# is very quick. There are plenty of
benchmarks online (one directly comparing VFP and VB.NET or C#.NET) that
show how much faster C# is compared to VFP.
11. More ready for the future. Want a 64 bit version of your app? No
problem in .NET.
12. Easy Multithreading. Throw a background worker on a form, tell it to
do something and then have it fire an event when it's done... The whole
time, though, your app is responsive and snappy... Or you can get fancy and
spawn tons of threads that you have total control over.




"Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ewtDEopiGHA.3588@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> I've seen shops succeed in replacing Fox with VB/SQL, but it was a lot of
> work. VB just can't do what VFP can as quick and as easy and with as few
> lines of code. Hello, inheritance? VB just didn't (doesn't) have it. I'm
> also seeing c# sucessfully replacing VFP apps. But again, it's a lot of
> work, and it's much more complex because C# can't crunch data like VFP
> can. The functionality just isn't there. Plus, designing a large app in C#
> is more complex then doing the same thing in VFP. I'm in a shop right now
> replacing a very large VFP app with c#. They will spend a lot more doing
> it in c# then in VFP, and the end result will be an app where the forms
> are sluggish compared to VFP, the data crunching is slower compared to
> VFP, and overall just doesn't have the VFP snap to it.
>
> "Dan Freeman" <spam@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:uK1tLvkiGHA.1936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>I know many shops that tried to replace FP apps with VB/SQL-server many
>> years ago and failed utterly because it's an inappropriate platform for
>> that
>> particular app. They're all trying to use .NET to do the same today. They
>> didn't learn from history.
>>
>> A lot of people *say* they're replacing VFP apps. But not many actually
>> get
>> the job done.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Ook wrote:
>>> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using
>>> VFP is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP
>>> work. Who is starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older
>>> Fox apps? How many existing VFP apps are being replaced with other
>>> platforms? Tiobe's ratings are not consistent with what is happening
>>> in the rest of the world.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>>>
>>>> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people
>>>> other than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>>>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>>>> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>>>> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>>>> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
>>>> news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
>>
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Gene

Gene
Fri Jun 09 12:46:09 CDT 2006

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:52:26 +0800, "HerbertDB" <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>I have seen a lot of job opening for FoxPro developers
>this year as compared to the last year in our country.

I apologise for sleeping through the Revolution.

Which country is ours?

(I am a Canadian living in the USA. Then, there is the issue of
your country.)

[snipped previous]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by HerbertDB

HerbertDB
Fri Jun 09 20:19:55 CDT 2006


No issue there man. Obviously I dont live in the USA.
Sorry but I didnt know that a country is an issue here.
I was just merely saying a fact, that is related to the thread
about VFP usage increase. I didnt know this group is exclusive
to US residents only. Forgive me Mr. Gene Wirchenko.



"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ucantrade.com.NOTHERE> wrote in message
news:p2bj829oirahpbc4pvr3286cm1adlu43o7@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:52:26 +0800, "HerbertDB" <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>I have seen a lot of job opening for FoxPro developers
>>this year as compared to the last year in our country.
>
> I apologise for sleeping through the Revolution.
>
> Which country is ours?
>
> (I am a Canadian living in the USA. Then, there is the issue of
> your country.)
>
> [snipped previous]
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gene Wirchenko
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Claude

Claude
Sat Jun 10 09:31:11 CDT 2006

Well, you can easily create and re-use business objects with VFP. This
seems like a ridiculous argument. many of the things you list are either
available in another form in VFP or are available directly. For database
performance, try vfp to vfp dbf speed compared to C# to SQl.
Since when can't you use the exact same objects for web as you do for
desktop in vfp?? For multithreading in VFP how about:
t=CREATEOBJECT('testserver.thread')
t.start(5,"do c:\MTmyVFP\MyThreadFunc WITH p2")
&& start method params:(1)#threads,(2)VFP code to MT,(3)Silent mode
?t.check && returns .T. if completed
t=null && cleanup
Simple, fast, efficient - it is VFP!!
"Brett Wickard" <brettwickard@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:O4EGIC%23iGHA.1612@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Then your C# programmers don't know what they're doing :) In my opinion,
> designing a large app in C# is not "more complex" than the same thing in
> VFP -- it so much easier it's silly. Rather than talk in generalities as
> we all are, I'll mention specifics as I see them and please set me
> straight with concrete examples where I'm wrong --- that way maybe all of
> us can learn advantages the other language may have that we're not aware
> of --- for instance that app that I'm still supporting in VFP was done in
> VFP 8.0, so maybe there was a feature I missed in 9.0 (I've got VFP9.0 and
> used it a decent amount but the app is not built in it) that is now out
> there.
>
> Ok for C#, here are the "large app" things that I like that I don't
> believe VFP has:
> 1. Namespaces. It is a convenient way to organize your objects within a
> large app. Especially when you have multiple developers working on it.
> 2. Business Objects. Bridge the world between OOP and your relation DB.
> 3. Refactoring. Can be addictive... make your code way more readable and
> help correct programmer naming errors.
> 4. Easy way to add hints to your objects as you make them.
> 5. Can use many of the same objects -easily- for a desktop and a web app.
> 6. Excellent add-on tools and libraries. (some free, some not). With
> like literally 3 lines of code I added a pivot grid to a form that kicks
> Excel's butt.
> 7. C#.NET can "crunch data" much faster than VFP to an enterprise
> backend. Performance of connection to SQL Server is FASTER than VFP is
> capable of. Don't believe it? It's very easy to test. When I call a SP
> from C# and call the same one in VFP, the performance is much better in C#
> because of the lower overhead of the connection. Easy way to try it:
> Make a SP that does a simple insert to a table (that's what mine
> does)...call it 1000 times from VFP and 1000 times from C# and you'll see
> that C# is at least 50% faster.
> 8. C# is OOP. I'm sure your comment about VB with inheritence was
> referring to VB6 (which came out how many years ago?) all of the VB.NET's
> (i.e. starting in 2002) have had inheritence.
> 9. The development environment is so much more productive and
> bug-preventitive than VFPs. How? Well the compiler catches many
> potential bugs (i.e. strong typing/unitialized variables/etc.) and C# was
> designed to prevent common development bugs (primarily through syntax).
> 10. Excellent performance. C# is very quick. There are plenty of
> benchmarks online (one directly comparing VFP and VB.NET or C#.NET) that
> show how much faster C# is compared to VFP.
> 11. More ready for the future. Want a 64 bit version of your app? No
> problem in .NET.
> 12. Easy Multithreading. Throw a background worker on a form, tell it to
> do something and then have it fire an event when it's done... The whole
> time, though, your app is responsive and snappy... Or you can get fancy
> and spawn tons of threads that you have total control over.
>
>
>
>
> "Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:ewtDEopiGHA.3588@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> I've seen shops succeed in replacing Fox with VB/SQL, but it was a lot of
>> work. VB just can't do what VFP can as quick and as easy and with as few
>> lines of code. Hello, inheritance? VB just didn't (doesn't) have it. I'm
>> also seeing c# sucessfully replacing VFP apps. But again, it's a lot of
>> work, and it's much more complex because C# can't crunch data like VFP
>> can. The functionality just isn't there. Plus, designing a large app in
>> C# is more complex then doing the same thing in VFP. I'm in a shop right
>> now replacing a very large VFP app with c#. They will spend a lot more
>> doing it in c# then in VFP, and the end result will be an app where the
>> forms are sluggish compared to VFP, the data crunching is slower compared
>> to VFP, and overall just doesn't have the VFP snap to it.
>>
>> "Dan Freeman" <spam@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:uK1tLvkiGHA.1936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>I know many shops that tried to replace FP apps with VB/SQL-server many
>>> years ago and failed utterly because it's an inappropriate platform for
>>> that
>>> particular app. They're all trying to use .NET to do the same today.
>>> They
>>> didn't learn from history.
>>>
>>> A lot of people *say* they're replacing VFP apps. But not many actually
>>> get
>>> the job done.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> Ook wrote:
>>>> Agreed. VFP usage is not increasing. Everyone I talk to who is using
>>>> VFP is planning to get rid of it soon and is not doing any new VFP
>>>> work. Who is starting new VFP projects, other then to replace older
>>>> Fox apps? How many existing VFP apps are being replaced with other
>>>> platforms? Tiobe's ratings are not consistent with what is happening
>>>> in the rest of the world.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%236R8e8IiGHA.1272@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Claude Fox wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> I see no rationale to do it. If Foxpro was really capable, people
>>>>> other than Tiobe would discover and spread the gospel.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
>>>>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>>>>> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.18
>>>>> ^ ^ 18:57:01 up 2 days 2:02 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
>>>>> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org
>>>>> news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Claude

Claude
Sat Jun 10 09:37:05 CDT 2006

I apologize for some of my fellow americans. They've even tried that line
of argument ("we americans" or "here in america")with me for some reason and
there's nobody more american than me - some of my ancestors have been here
since 1607, 3rd cousin to G. Washington(11 times removed), 7th cousin to G.
Bush(don't agree with his politics though), 3 generations of western
homesteaders, ancestors in every major american war, etc...
"HerbertDB" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:uIQsMsCjGHA.3440@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> No issue there man. Obviously I dont live in the USA.
> Sorry but I didnt know that a country is an issue here.
> I was just merely saying a fact, that is related to the thread
> about VFP usage increase. I didnt know this group is exclusive
> to US residents only. Forgive me Mr. Gene Wirchenko.
>
>
>
> "Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ucantrade.com.NOTHERE> wrote in message
> news:p2bj829oirahpbc4pvr3286cm1adlu43o7@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:52:26 +0800, "HerbertDB" <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I have seen a lot of job opening for FoxPro developers
>>>this year as compared to the last year in our country.
>>
>> I apologise for sleeping through the Revolution.
>>
>> Which country is ours?
>>
>> (I am a Canadian living in the USA. Then, there is the issue of
>> your country.)
>>
>> [snipped previous]
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Gene Wirchenko
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Paul

Paul
Sat Jun 10 16:57:44 CDT 2006

I didn't get that impression from Gene. Besides, like he said, he's
Canadian.

The issue was, you referred to "our country", but reading this group, one
cannot tell to which country you were referring. I for one would be
interested in hearing which countries have had an increase in demand for
FoxPro developers.



"HerbertDB" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:uIQsMsCjGHA.3440@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> No issue there man. Obviously I dont live in the USA.
> Sorry but I didnt know that a country is an issue here.
> I was just merely saying a fact, that is related to the thread
> about VFP usage increase. I didnt know this group is exclusive
> to US residents only. Forgive me Mr. Gene Wirchenko.
>
>
>
> "Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ucantrade.com.NOTHERE> wrote in message
> news:p2bj829oirahpbc4pvr3286cm1adlu43o7@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:52:26 +0800, "HerbertDB" <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I have seen a lot of job opening for FoxPro developers
>>>this year as compared to the last year in our country.
>>
>> I apologise for sleeping through the Revolution.
>>
>> Which country is ours?
>>
>> (I am a Canadian living in the USA. Then, there is the issue of
>> your country.)
>>
>> [snipped previous]
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Gene Wirchenko
>>
>
>



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Leonid

Leonid
Sun Jun 11 05:21:59 CDT 2006

> I for one would be interested in hearing which countries have had an
> increase in demand for FoxPro developers.

Hi is from Philippine



Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Man-wai

Man-wai
Sun Jun 11 05:39:09 CDT 2006

> use it. They spent a lot of time and money trying to get it up to speed, and
> just could not. They scrapped it. 2 years and millions of dollars down the
> drain.

What happened afterwards?


--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.20
^ ^ 18:38:01 up 5 days 4:21 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Man-wai

Man-wai
Sun Jun 11 05:43:58 CDT 2006

> 1. Namespaces. It is a convenient way to organize your objects within a
> large app. Especially when you have multiple developers working on it.

Foxpro/dBase got macro substitution.

> 2. Business Objects. Bridge the world between OOP and your relation DB.
> 3. Refactoring. Can be addictive... make your code way more readable and
> help correct programmer naming errors.
> 4. Easy way to add hints to your objects as you make them.
> 5. Can use many of the same objects -easily- for a desktop and a web app.
> 8. C# is OOP. I'm sure your comment about VB with inheritence was
> referring to VB6 (which came out how many years ago?) all of the
VB.NET's
> (i.e. starting in 2002) have had inheritence.

You can deploy VFP Framework. You can build your objects if you wish.
Hints? Are they just a buzzword for regular comments?

> 6. Excellent add-on tools and libraries. (some free, some not). With like
> literally 3 lines of code I added a pivot grid to a form that kicks Excel's
> butt.
> 11. More ready for the future. Want a 64 bit version of your app? No
> problem in .NET.
> 12. Easy Multithreading. Throw a background worker on a form, tell
it to
> do something and then have it fire an event when it's done... The whole
> time, though, your app is responsive and snappy... Or you can get
fancy and
> spawn tons of threads that you have total control over.

That's because of lack of users.

> 7. C#.NET can "crunch data" much faster than VFP to an enterprise backend.
> Performance of connection to SQL Server is FASTER than VFP is capable of.
> Don't believe it? It's very easy to test. When I call a SP from C# and
> call the same one in VFP, the performance is much better in C# because of
> the lower overhead of the connection. Easy way to try it: Make a SP that
> does a simple insert to a table (that's what mine does)...call it 1000 times
> from VFP and 1000 times from C# and you'll see that C# is at least 50%
> faster.

YOu haven't seen Rushmore in VFP, whose performance is on par with SQL
Server.

> 9. The development environment is so much more productive and
> bug-preventitive than VFPs. How? Well the compiler catches many potential
> bugs (i.e. strong typing/unitialized variables/etc.) and C# was designed to
> prevent common development bugs (primarily through syntax).
> 10. Excellent performance. C# is very quick. There are plenty of
> benchmarks online (one directly comparing VFP and VB.NET or C#.NET) that
> show how much faster C# is compared to VFP.

Capable programmers, including C# ones, don't rely on an environment.
They only need a compiler/intepreter.


--
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Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Gene

Gene
Mon Jun 12 14:54:19 CDT 2006

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:19:55 +0800, "HerbertDB" <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>No issue there man. Obviously I dont live in the USA.

How is it obvious? You have an apparently bogus E-mail address,
and you do not have a sig (which might indicate where you are from).

>Sorry but I didnt know that a country is an issue here.
>I was just merely saying a fact, that is related to the thread
>about VFP usage increase. I didnt know this group is exclusive
>to US residents only. Forgive me Mr. Gene Wirchenko.

You said "our country". Since this newsgroup is not limited to
the USA, which country are you talking about?

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko


Re: Foxpro now an "A" language by Brett

Brett
Mon Jun 12 15:01:15 CDT 2006

I guess I don't consider VFP DBF speed at all because it's not a robust
enough database for any sizeable project. Comparing SQL Server and VFP
DBF's doesn't seem worthwhile because they are really different beasts. But
I can tell you from personal experience that in a highly active environment
with more than 50 simultaneous users, that VFP DBF's are not a reasonable
choice for backend.

The ease at which you can spawn a thread in VFP is new to me - thanks for
the example! How do you handle thread synchronization using that method?


"Claude Fox" <cfuchs@activevfp.com> wrote in message
news:u1YwEqJjGHA.1640@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Well, you can easily create and re-use business objects with VFP. This
> seems like a ridiculous argument. many of the things you list are either
> available in another form in VFP or are available directly. For database
> performance, try vfp to vfp dbf speed compared to C# to SQl.
> Since when can't you use the exact same objects for web as you do for
> desktop in vfp?? For multithreading in VFP how about:
> t=CREATEOBJECT('testserver.thread')
> t.start(5,"do c:\MTmyVFP\MyThreadFunc WITH p2")
> && start method params:(1)#threads,(2)VFP code to MT,(3)Silent mode
> ?t.check && returns .T. if completed
> t=null && cleanup
> Simple, fast, efficient - it is VFP!!
> "Brett Wickard" <brettwickard@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
> news:O4EGIC%23iGHA.1612@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Then your C# programmers don't know what they're doing :) In my
>> opinion, designing a large app in C# is not "more complex" than the same
>> thing in VFP -- it so much easier it's silly. Rather than talk in
>> generalities as we all are, I'll mention specifics as I see them and
>> please set me straight with concrete examples where I'm wrong --- that
>> way maybe all of us can learn advantages the other language may have that
>> we're not aware of --- for instance that app that I'm still supporting in
>> VFP was done in VFP 8.0, so maybe there was a feature I missed in 9.0
>> (I've got VFP9.0 and used it a decent amount but the app is not built in
>> it) that is now out there.
>>
>> Ok for C#, here are the "large app" things that I like that I don't
>> believe VFP has:
>> 1. Namespaces. It is a convenient way to organize your objects within a
>> large app. Especially when you have multiple developers working on it.
>> 2. Business Objects. Bridge the world between OOP and your relation DB.
>> 3. Refactoring. Can be addictive... make your code way more readable
>> and help correct programmer naming errors.
>> 4. Easy way to add hints to your objects as you make them.
>> 5. Can use many of the same objects -easily- for a desktop and a web
>> app.
>> 6. Excellent add-on tools and libraries. (some free, some not). With
>> like literally 3 lines of code I added a pivot grid to a form that kicks
>> Excel's butt.
>> 7. C#.NET can "crunch data" much faster than VFP to an enterprise
>> backend. Performance of connection to SQL Server is FASTER than VFP is
>> capable of. Don't believe it? It's very easy to test. When I call a SP
>> from C# and call the same one in VFP, the performance is much better in
>> C# because of the lower overhead of the connection. Easy way to try it:
>> Make a SP that does a simple insert to a table (that's what mine
>> does)...call it 1000 times from VFP and 1000 times from C# and you'll see
>> that C# is at least 50% faster.
>> 8. C# is OOP. I'm sure your comment about VB with inheritence was
>> referring to VB6 (which came out how many years ago?) all of the VB.NET's
>> (i.e. starting in 2002) have had inheritence.
>> 9. The development environment is so much more productive and
>> bug-preventitive than VFPs. How? Well the compiler catches many
>> potential bugs (i.e. strong typing/unitialized variables/etc.) and C# was
>> designed to prevent common development bugs (primarily through syntax).
>> 10. Excellent performance. C# is very quick. There are plenty of
>> benchmarks online (one directly comparing VFP and VB.NET or C#.NET) that
>> show how much faster C# is compared to VFP.
>> 11. More ready for the future. Want a 64 bit version of your app? No
>> problem in .NET.
>> 12. Easy Multithreading. Throw a background worker on a form, tell it
>> to do something and then have it fire an event when it's done... The
>> whole time, though, your app is responsive and snappy... Or you can get
>> fancy and spawn tons of threads that you have total control over.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Ook" <nousenetspam@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:ewtDEopiGHA.3588@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> I've seen shops succeed in replacing Fox with VB/SQL, but it was a lot
>>> of work. VB just can't do what VFP can as quick and as easy and with as
>>> few lines of code. Hello, inheritance? VB just didn't (doesn't) have it.
>>> I'm also seeing c# sucessfully replacing VFP apps. But again, it's a lot
>>> of work, and it's much more complex because C# can't crunch data like
>>> VFP can. The functionality just isn't there. Plus, designing a large app
>>> in C# is more complex then doing the same thing in VFP. I'm in a shop
>>> right now replacing a very large VFP app with c#. They will spend a lot
>>> more doing it in c# then in VFP, and the end result will be an app where
>>> the forms are sluggish compared to VFP, the data crunching is slower
>>> compared to VFP, and overall just doesn't have the VFP snap to it.
>>>
>>> "Dan Freeman" <spam@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uK1tLvkiGHA.1936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>I know many shops that tried to replace FP apps with VB/SQL-server many
>>>> years ago and failed utterly because it's an inappropriate platform for
>>>> that
>>>> particular app. They're all trying to use .NET to do the same today.
>>>> They
>>>> didn't learn from history.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of people *say* they're replacing VFP apps. But not many actually
>>