Foxpro 10????

I've been developing in Foxpro for about 10 years now.

With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving away
to something with more longjevity?

Does anyone see a future for VFP?

What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft then
by others?

Gene
Wed Jul 16 17:56:22 CDT 2008

"Andy Trezise" <andy@20chr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>I've been developing in Foxpro for about 10 years now.

Newbie!

>With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
>exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving away
>to something with more longjevity?

Three answers:

1) The exclusion came first, and it was arguably for the better. I
understand that .NETing VFP would have involved trading away some very
useful things.

2) Microsoft just does not have stamina, eh?

3) Like?

>Does anyone see a future for VFP?

Yes.

Software does not rot that fast.

My editor of choice is WordStar. I got it in 1988. I run it
under DOSBox, but it does run. Sure, I wish it handled long filenames
and a few other things, but it is a good editor for me. It is quite
an indictment that no GUI editor has come close AFAIAC. I will be
using WordStar for some time to come.

As to VFP, if I have to decide to use something else, I will
remember.

I will remember how well VFP did even though Microsoft could not
be bothered to honestly market it.

I will remember how Microsoft screwed over developers going from
Fox 2.x to 3 and from 3 to 5 (no support on older versions and
changing versions required a new OS).

I will remember how they screwed over VB 6 developers.

I will remember the nonsense about how a browser has to be in the
OS.

I will remember two years ago when buying a system and having all
of the hoopla about Vista (which was not then out) and how it still is
not up to snuff according to many.

I doubt that I will go Microsoft.

>What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft then
>by others?

VFP? About none.

xBASE in general? There have been various things Out There. I
do not know statuses. Maybe, others do.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

Josh
Wed Jul 16 18:03:32 CDT 2008


A little googling would have answered your qestions.

>I've been developing in Foxpro for about 10 years now.

so have a lot of people -- me, since foxplus days....

>With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
>exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving away
>to something with more longjevity?

nothing MS does will outlive foxpro -- except "windows" -- even visual basic
isn't the same as it was 10 years ago.

>Does anyone see a future for VFP?

it's dead.

>What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft then
>by others?

zero

Dan
Wed Jul 16 18:30:00 CDT 2008

Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> xBASE in general? There have been various things Out There. I
> do not know statuses. Maybe, others do.

dBase is still out there www.dbase.com
xHarbour (OO Clipper) is apparently doing well, and I *believe* includes
Linux support. http://www.xharbour.org/
Christof Lange's Guineau looked incredible last I saw it.
http://guineu.foxpert.com/
The .NET compiler for VFP is coming along nicely: www.etecnologia.net

Exploring just those 4 options could keep a fella mighty busy. <s>

Dan

PS: couple of promising non-xbase options:

RealBasic is the moral successor to VB6, and it's Linux/Windows/Mac
x-platform. www.realsoftware.com
I've seen a lot of talk about Dabo (GUI for Python, also x-plat). Bonus
points: authors are well-known Foxers Ed Leafe and Paul McNett.
http://dabodev.com/ (Paul also originated the VFP on Linux dustup.)

John
Wed Jul 16 20:02:51 CDT 2008

I'm picking up PHP and MySQL after advice from others and some on this
forum. I've been developing in dBASE since 85 and Foxpro since 90s. I've
converted all my systems to Open Office and will not give MS anymore money
except..xp. No I won't even buy Vista again.
Thanks MS.

"Andy Trezise" <andy@20chr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ueUZPD55IHA.5052@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> I've been developing in Foxpro for about 10 years now.
>
> With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
> exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving
> away to something with more longjevity?
>
> Does anyone see a future for VFP?
>
> What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft
> then by others?
>

Zootal
Wed Jul 16 20:05:50 CDT 2008

VFP was removed from Visual Studio back when VFP7 was current. Old news.

Is there a future for VFP? In your larger shops and mainstream IT in
general, VFP is dead. Those still using it are migrating away from it as
fast as they can. Few if any IT managers are going to risk their career by
starting new development using VFP. VFP apps will be around for many years
to come, but they will continue to dwindle in numbers as they have been for
the last few years.

In the Mom and Pop shops, you will still see some VFP apps for a few years
to come, but even they are going to move away from it.

It's dead and just waiting for someone to come along and bury it :-)


"Andy Trezise" <andy@20chr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ueUZPD55IHA.5052@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> I've been developing in Foxpro for about 10 years now.
>
> With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
> exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving
> away to something with more longjevity?
>
> Does anyone see a future for VFP?
>
> What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft
> then by others?
>

Big
Wed Jul 16 22:14:30 CDT 2008

Gene:

WordStar? Really? I remember when that was the word processor.

I hope you're joking that you still use it, but it seems like you were
serious.
'
BR


"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
news:q0us74tl133jv7fhqh0h6ekg32age4530d@4ax.com...
> "Andy Trezise" <andy@20chr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I've been developing in Foxpro for about 10 years now.
>
> Newbie!
>
>>With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
>>exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving
>>away
>>to something with more longjevity?
>
> Three answers:
>
> 1) The exclusion came first, and it was arguably for the better. I
> understand that .NETing VFP would have involved trading away some very
> useful things.
>
> 2) Microsoft just does not have stamina, eh?
>
> 3) Like?
>
>>Does anyone see a future for VFP?
>
> Yes.
>
> Software does not rot that fast.
>
> My editor of choice is WordStar. I got it in 1988. I run it
> under DOSBox, but it does run. Sure, I wish it handled long filenames
> and a few other things, but it is a good editor for me. It is quite
> an indictment that no GUI editor has come close AFAIAC. I will be
> using WordStar for some time to come.
>
> As to VFP, if I have to decide to use something else, I will
> remember.
>
> I will remember how well VFP did even though Microsoft could not
> be bothered to honestly market it.
>
> I will remember how Microsoft screwed over developers going from
> Fox 2.x to 3 and from 3 to 5 (no support on older versions and
> changing versions required a new OS).
>
> I will remember how they screwed over VB 6 developers.
>
> I will remember the nonsense about how a browser has to be in the
> OS.
>
> I will remember two years ago when buying a system and having all
> of the hoopla about Vista (which was not then out) and how it still is
> not up to snuff according to many.
>
> I doubt that I will go Microsoft.
>
>>What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft
>>then
>>by others?
>
> VFP? About none.
>
> xBASE in general? There have been various things Out There. I
> do not know statuses. Maybe, others do.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gene Wirchenko
>
> Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
> I have preferences.
> You have biases.
> He/She has prejudices.

Man-wai
Wed Jul 16 22:30:22 CDT 2008

> With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
> exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving away
> to something with more longjevity?
> Does anyone see a future for VFP?

I rather see a 64-bit Foxpro than another 32-bit release.

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
^ ^ 11:27:01 up 2 days 14:53 2 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Claude
Thu Jul 17 11:33:32 CDT 2008

The community is making VFP better. See the VFP projects on Codeplex etc.
The community always made vfp better anyway, not so much the microsofties.
PHP has not done so bad without a corporate sponsor and VFP is way better
than it...
"Andy Trezise" <andy@20chr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ueUZPD55IHA.5052@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> I've been developing in Foxpro for about 10 years now.
>
> With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
> exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving
> away to something with more longjevity?
>
> Does anyone see a future for VFP?
>
> What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft
> then by others?
>

Gene
Thu Jul 17 12:32:59 CDT 2008

"Big Bubba" <spamhere@aol.com> wrote:

>Gene:
>
>WordStar? Really? I remember when that was the word processor.
>
>I hope you're joking that you still use it, but it seems like you were
>serious.

Why would you hope that I am joking? It meets my needs better
than any other editor I have used.

I also continue to use wheels, too.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

Zootal
Thu Jul 17 13:27:23 CDT 2008


"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
news:7g0v74t2q48ot5238rvrl3b3odcl9ipior@4ax.com...
> "Big Bubba" <spamhere@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Gene:
>>
>>WordStar? Really? I remember when that was the word processor.
>>
>>I hope you're joking that you still use it, but it seems like you were
>>serious.
>
> Why would you hope that I am joking? It meets my needs better
> than any other editor I have used.
>
> I also continue to use wheels, too.
>
> [snip]
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gene Wirchenko
>
> Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
> I have preferences.
> You have biases.
> He/She has prejudices.

Are you still on Windows 98?

Gene
Thu Jul 17 14:53:41 CDT 2008

"Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote:

>"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
>news:7g0v74t2q48ot5238rvrl3b3odcl9ipior@4ax.com...
>> "Big Bubba" <spamhere@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Gene:
>>>
>>>WordStar? Really? I remember when that was the word processor.
>>>
>>>I hope you're joking that you still use it, but it seems like you were
>>>serious.
>>
>> Why would you hope that I am joking? It meets my needs better
>> than any other editor I have used.
>>
>> I also continue to use wheels, too.

>Are you still on Windows 98?

I have my Windows 98 system on my desk, but I rarely use it. I
am on XP. Are you going to push Vista?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

Zootal
Thu Jul 17 16:00:41 CDT 2008


"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
news:hn8v74l4t23u6v3b6n8bt27gd2c56ke16t@4ax.com...
> "Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
>>news:7g0v74t2q48ot5238rvrl3b3odcl9ipior@4ax.com...
>>> "Big Bubba" <spamhere@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gene:
>>>>
>>>>WordStar? Really? I remember when that was the word processor.
>>>>
>>>>I hope you're joking that you still use it, but it seems like you were
>>>>serious.
>>>
>>> Why would you hope that I am joking? It meets my needs better
>>> than any other editor I have used.
>>>
>>> I also continue to use wheels, too.
>
>>Are you still on Windows 98?
>
> I have my Windows 98 system on my desk, but I rarely use it. I
> am on XP. Are you going to push Vista?
>

Not me. Vista does nothing that I need that XP can't do, so I'm planning on
sitting it out and waiting for Windows 7. Then I may or may not upgrade. XP
is the first OS that Microsoft has made that actually works for me, and I'm
in no hurry to move on. I made the mistake of buying into the WinME hype,
and I still have two copies of WinME sitting on my shelf. I ran them for a
few weeks and went back to Win98. This time around I'm hanging onto my money
:).

Gene
Thu Jul 17 17:38:29 CDT 2008

"Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote:

>"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
>news:hn8v74l4t23u6v3b6n8bt27gd2c56ke16t@4ax.com...
>> "Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote:

[snip]

>> I have my Windows 98 system on my desk, but I rarely use it. I
>> am on XP. Are you going to push Vista?
>>
>
>Not me. Vista does nothing that I need that XP can't do, so I'm planning on
>sitting it out and waiting for Windows 7. Then I may or may not upgrade. XP
>is the first OS that Microsoft has made that actually works for me, and I'm
>in no hurry to move on. I made the mistake of buying into the WinME hype,
>and I still have two copies of WinME sitting on my shelf. I ran them for a
>few weeks and went back to Win98. This time around I'm hanging onto my money
>:).

I am doing the same as to editors.

Note that I claim WordStar is the editor for *me*. I suggest,
but do not insist, that others try it.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

Man-wai
Fri Jul 18 05:35:55 CDT 2008

Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k) wrote:
>> With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
>> exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering
>> moving away to something with more longjevity?
>> Does anyone see a future for VFP?
>
> I rather see a 64-bit Foxpro than another 32-bit release.
>

... Better... how about a real Visual Foxpro Runtime like Java or .Net? :)


--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
^ ^ 18:34:01 up 3 days 22:00 3 users load average: 1.00 1.04 1.00
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Craig
Fri Jul 18 10:03:06 CDT 2008

How is .Net a "real runtime" and VFP isn't?

--

Craig Berntson
Microsoft MVP

-------------
> ... Better... how about a real Visual Foxpro Runtime like Java or .Net? :)

Zootal
Fri Jul 18 10:16:50 CDT 2008


>>
>> I rather see a 64-bit Foxpro than another 32-bit release.
>>
>
> ... Better... how about a real Visual Foxpro Runtime like Java or .Net? :)
>

How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP? The biggest problem VFP has
ever had is Microsoft. Get rid of them, and VFP could prosper. And it would
be cross-platform again. Think about it - VFP on Linux would become very
popular very fast.

Stephen
Fri Jul 18 10:45:46 CDT 2008

But, as has been repeated often before, it is not an option to say 'get rid
of M$'. This implies that 'we' have any power over it. The product belongs
to them, and they decide what happens to it. They are not going to release
vfp in a million years because of the code within it they want to retain
control of.

Stephen

"Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u1hlUlO6IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>>>
>>> I rather see a 64-bit Foxpro than another 32-bit release.
>>>
>>
>> ... Better... how about a real Visual Foxpro Runtime like Java or .Net?
>> :)
>>
>
> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP? The biggest problem VFP has
> ever had is Microsoft. Get rid of them, and VFP could prosper. And it
> would be cross-platform again. Think about it - VFP on Linux would become
> very popular very fast.
>
>

Zootal
Fri Jul 18 12:13:26 CDT 2008

Sure, we can say "get rid of M$" any time we want, saying so is always an
option. At least over here in the colonies (aka USA) it is, thanks to
something we call our Constitution. And what I said is quite likely
correct - get MS out of the picture, market VFP as a development tool for
Linux, and watch it take over Linux desktops.

And we all know this is unlikely to ever happen ....

"Stephen Ibbs" <stephen@ibbs.org.uk> wrote in message
news:KU2gk.1061$9S6.471@newsfe08.ams2...
> But, as has been repeated often before, it is not an option to say 'get
> rid of M$'. This implies that 'we' have any power over it. The product
> belongs to them, and they decide what happens to it. They are not going to
> release vfp in a million years because of the code within it they want to
> retain control of.
>
> Stephen
>
> "Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:u1hlUlO6IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>>
>>>> I rather see a 64-bit Foxpro than another 32-bit release.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ... Better... how about a real Visual Foxpro Runtime like Java or .Net?
>>> :)
>>>
>>
>> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP? The biggest problem VFP
>> has ever had is Microsoft. Get rid of them, and VFP could prosper. And it
>> would be cross-platform again. Think about it - VFP on Linux would become
>> very popular very fast.
>>
>>
>
>
>

Paul
Fri Jul 18 15:19:48 CDT 2008


"Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u1hlUlO6IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>>>
>>> I rather see a 64-bit Foxpro than another 32-bit release.
>>>
>>
>> ... Better... how about a real Visual Foxpro Runtime like Java or .Net?
>> :)
>>
>
> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP? The biggest problem VFP has
> ever had is Microsoft. Get rid of them, and VFP could prosper. And it
> would be cross-platform again. Think about it - VFP on Linux would become
> very popular very fast.

That's exactly why MS won't turn it loose.

Stephen
Sat Jul 19 01:17:10 CDT 2008

Yes you are correct and of course you can say it - whether in the colonies
or not (quite what relevance that has I'm not clear, apart perhaps from an
indication of somebody living in the past <g>).

I was guilty of not being precise in my contribution. I should have said -
'it is not a *realistic* option ...'.

Memo to self - be slightly more pedantic in future.

Stephen

"Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uFcPemP6IHA.4596@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Sure, we can say "get rid of M$" any time we want, saying so is always an
> option. At least over here in the colonies (aka USA) it is, thanks to
> something we call our Constitution. And what I said is quite likely
> correct - get MS out of the picture, market VFP as a development tool for
> Linux, and watch it take over Linux desktops.
>
> And we all know this is unlikely to ever happen ....
>
> "Stephen Ibbs" <stephen@ibbs.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:KU2gk.1061$9S6.471@newsfe08.ams2...
>> But, as has been repeated often before, it is not an option to say 'get
>> rid of M$'. This implies that 'we' have any power over it. The product
>> belongs to them, and they decide what happens to it. They are not going
>> to release vfp in a million years because of the code within it they want
>> to retain control of.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>> "Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:u1hlUlO6IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I rather see a 64-bit Foxpro than another 32-bit release.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ... Better... how about a real Visual Foxpro Runtime like Java or .Net?
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP? The biggest problem VFP
>>> has ever had is Microsoft. Get rid of them, and VFP could prosper. And
>>> it would be cross-platform again. Think about it - VFP on Linux would
>>> become very popular very fast.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Man-wai
Sat Jul 19 04:40:01 CDT 2008

Craig Berntson wrote:
> How is .Net a "real runtime" and VFP isn't?
>

I meant having Foxpro programs running inside a browser runtime,
*unchanged*! Just like Java. :P

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
^ ^ 17:38:01 up 4 days 21:04 3 users load average: 1.07 1.10 1.06
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Al
Sat Jul 19 08:41:08 CDT 2008

or
"why so can I, so can any man, but will they come...

al

"Stephen Ibbs" <stephen@ibbs.org.uk> wrote in message
news:GFfgk.2906$9S6.1952@newsfe08.ams2...
> Yes you are correct and of course you can say it - whether
> in the colonies or not (quite what relevance that has I'm
> not clear, apart perhaps from an indication of somebody
> living in the past <g>).
>
> I was guilty of not being precise in my contribution. I
> should have said - 'it is not a *realistic* option ...'.
>
> Memo to self - be slightly more pedantic in future.
>
> Stephen
>
> "Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uFcPemP6IHA.4596@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Sure, we can say "get rid of M$" any time we want, saying
>> so is always an option. At least over here in the
>> colonies (aka USA) it is, thanks to something we call our
>> Constitution. And what I said is quite likely correct -
>> get MS out of the picture, market VFP as a development
>> tool for Linux, and watch it take over Linux desktops.
>>
>> And we all know this is unlikely to ever happen ....
>>
>> "Stephen Ibbs" <stephen@ibbs.org.uk> wrote in message
>> news:KU2gk.1061$9S6.471@newsfe08.ams2...
>>> But, as has been repeated often before, it is not an
>>> option to say 'get rid of M$'. This implies that 'we'
>>> have any power over it. The product belongs to them, and
>>> they decide what happens to it. They are not going to
>>> release vfp in a million years because of the code
>>> within it they want to retain control of.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> "Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:u1hlUlO6IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I rather see a 64-bit Foxpro than another 32-bit
>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ... Better... how about a real Visual Foxpro Runtime
>>>>> like Java or .Net? :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP? The
>>>> biggest problem VFP has ever had is Microsoft. Get rid
>>>> of them, and VFP could prosper. And it would be
>>>> cross-platform again. Think about it - VFP on Linux
>>>> would become very popular very fast.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Gene
Sat Jul 19 20:11:40 CDT 2008

"Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote:

>"Zootal" <msnews@zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:u1hlUlO6IHA.1420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

[snip]

>> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP? The biggest problem VFP has
>> ever had is Microsoft. Get rid of them, and VFP could prosper. And it
>> would be cross-platform again. Think about it - VFP on Linux would become
>> very popular very fast.
>
>That's exactly why MS won't turn it loose.

Nope.

They will not turn it loose because there is not much upside for
them. (We might think more highly of Microsoft if they did it, but
that does not seem to be a concern of theirs.)

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

Man-wai
Sun Jul 20 05:19:10 CDT 2008

Claude Fox wrote:
> The community is making VFP better. See the VFP projects on Codeplex etc.
> The community always made vfp better anyway, not so much the microsofties.
> PHP has not done so bad without a corporate sponsor and VFP is way better
> than it...

Not good enough... Look at Clipper 5's crowd. They rewrote the whole
thing, under the names of Harbour (the original Harbour-project) and
xHarbour.

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
^ ^ 18:16:01 up 5 days 21:42 3 users load average: 1.00 1.01 1.00
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Claude
Sun Jul 20 15:09:15 CDT 2008

Never heard of those.
I wouldn't want to rewrite anything anyway - that's part of the strength of
vfp - stability. Just build on top of it.

> Not good enough... Look at Clipper 5's crowd. They rewrote the whole
> thing, under the names of Harbour (the original Harbour-project) and
> xHarbour.

"Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k)" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23MOLrHl6IHA.3856@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Claude Fox wrote:
>> The community is making VFP better. See the VFP projects on Codeplex etc.
>> The community always made vfp better anyway, not so much the
>> microsofties.
>> PHP has not done so bad without a corporate sponsor and VFP is way better
>> than it...
>
>
> --
> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
> ^ ^ 18:16:01 up 5 days 21:42 3 users load average: 1.00 1.01 1.00
> ? ? (CSSA):
> http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Paul
Sun Jul 20 20:53:05 CDT 2008


"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message > [snip]
>
>>> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP? The biggest problem VFP
>>> has
>>> ever had is Microsoft. Get rid of them, and VFP could prosper. And it
>>> would be cross-platform again. Think about it - VFP on Linux would
>>> become
>>> very popular very fast.
>>
>>That's exactly why MS won't turn it loose.
>
> Nope.
>
> They will not turn it loose because there is not much upside for
> them.

That's what I said. VFP on Linux would likely be quite popular. I myself
would probably follow up with it. MS does not want to promote Linux; they
want to kill Linux.

Patrick
Mon Jul 21 00:54:44 CDT 2008

Anything can still change...We just probably need to push MS or new other
company to continue VFP and give them the impression that the big market for
VFP is still there and the ability of this development tool is not easy to
bury. I think there still enough time to change the course of direction for
VFP. Business is very much psychology, if there is still a lot of money to
make and to go further with the development, things can change into new
direction.

So we shall not completely negative about MS threat to abando VFP...they are
the one who will loss a lot...

"Andy Trezise" <andy@20chr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ueUZPD55IHA.5052@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> I've been developing in Foxpro for about 10 years now.
>
> With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
> exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving
> away to something with more longjevity?
>
> Does anyone see a future for VFP?
>
> What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft
> then by others?
>

Christof
Mon Jul 21 03:49:25 CDT 2008

Hi,

> The biggest problem VFP has ever had is Microsoft.

Sorry, but I don't agree with that... How long did Fox Software own FoxPro?
Less than ten years. Microsoft, on the other hand, owned and developed
FoxPro for over 15 years. Fox Software provided the foundation, but the
product we have now is largely a Microsoft product.

> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP?

Like http://guineu.foxpert.com. Runs on Windows Mobile, Linux, Mac, Web, 32
bit, 64 bit, etc.

--
Christof

Christof
Mon Jul 21 04:12:33 CDT 2008

Hi,

> Those still using it are migrating away from it as fast as they can.

That's not what I see. Fortunately, in smaller companies it's a business
decision, not a political decision. Some are migrating, some are staying.

> Few if any IT managers are going to risk their career

Nope. IT managers that decide on technology because of the impact on their
career have switched in the 90ties. IT managers today are either younger
folks that replace VFP centric managers. Those usually switch to whatever
technology they learned during university/college. Older IT managers that
are still supporting VFP applications decide, in my experience, on technical
terms rather than career terms. Frequently this means to keep maintaining
existing projects in VFP and start new ones in .NET or Java.

If there's budget for a rewrite, it depends on several factors what they
choose. .NET/Java is typically choosen if the budget is sufficient for a
rewrite and managers expect to keep working for a longer period. Often it's
not a single project that is the reason not to go with VFP, rather the
possibility of having training being paid by this project. If the budget
isn't huge, the application is data bound and very inexpensive ($50-$500 a
year), the time to retirement isn't that long (10-15 years) or development
resources are expensive, managers tend to stay in FoxPro (VFP and FPD). That
seems to be the case the farther you go away from the US. My impression is
that the most active VFP communities are in Asian, Eastern European and
Spanish speaking countries.

> but even they are going to move away from it.

There's alaways a problem with generalization or drawing a bigger picture
from individual incidents. However, one of my clients sold another license
of his DOS application a few weeks ago. Sometimes getting work done for a
low price is more important than a modern looking UI.

> It's dead and just waiting for someone to come along and bury it :-)

VB 6 is dead and see how VB developers refuse to accept that. ;-)

--
Christof

Man-wai
Mon Jul 21 06:09:08 CDT 2008


I think you people could do it. :)

> Never heard of those.
> I wouldn't want to rewrite anything anyway - that's part of the strength of
> vfp - stability. Just build on top of it.
>
>> Not good enough... Look at Clipper 5's crowd. They rewrote the whole
>> thing, under the names of Harbour (the original Harbour-project) and
>> xHarbour.


--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
^ ^ 19:07:01 up 6 days 22:33 3 users load average: 1.00 1.01 1.00
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

glene77is
Mon Jul 21 06:37:40 CDT 2008

On Jul 16, 6:56 pm, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@ocis.net> wrote:
> "Andy Trezise" <a...@20chr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >I've been developing inFoxprofor about 10 years now.
>
> Newbie!
>
> >With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
> >exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving away
> >to something with more longjevity?
>
> Three answers:
>
> 1) The exclusion came first, and it was arguably for the better. I
> understand that .NETing VFP would have involved trading away some very
> useful things.
>
> 2) Microsoft just does not have stamina, eh?
>
> 3) Like?
>
> >Does anyone see a future for VFP?
>
> Yes.
>
> Software does not rot that fast.
>
> My editor of choice is WordStar. I got it in 1988. I run it
> under DOSBox, but it does run. Sure, I wish it handled long filenames
> and a few other things, but it is a good editor for me. It is quite
> an indictment that no GUI editor has come close AFAIAC. I will be
> using WordStar for some time to come.
>
> As to VFP, if I have to decide to use something else, I will
> remember.
>
> I will remember how well VFP did even though Microsoft could not
> be bothered to honestly market it.
>
> I will remember how Microsoft screwed over developers going from
> Fox 2.x to 3 and from 3 to 5 (no support on older versions and
> changing versions required a new OS).
>
> I will remember how they screwed over VB 6 developers.
>
> I will remember the nonsense about how a browser has to be in the
> OS.
>
> I will remember two years ago when buying a system and having all
> of the hoopla about Vista (which was not then out) and how it still is
> not up to snuff according to many.
>
> I doubt that I will go Microsoft.
>
> >What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft then
> >by others?
>
> VFP? About none.
>
> xBASE in general? There have been various things Out There. I
> do not know statuses. Maybe, others do.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gene Wirchenko
>
> Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
> I have preferences.
> You have biases.
> He/She has prejudices.

Good reply.
Wish I still had WordStar running under a DosWindow.
I used version 1.1 way back in CPM days,
on an Apple II with a plug-in card for the Z80..
Good sentiment on the Microsoft gruff-stuff.
I do wish there was a good driver (maybe like the 'Wine')
for VFP 6.0 on a Linux system.
I'd switch in a New York minute.

I am looking for an additional machine with Linux.
Used every version of dBASE, Clipper, and Fox up through v6.0.
Still on Windows 98 with VFP 6.0..

glene77is
Mon Jul 21 06:41:14 CDT 2008

On Jul 17, 12:33 pm, "Claude Fox" <claude....@activevfp.com> wrote:
> The community is making VFP better. See the VFP projects on Codeplex etc.
> The community always made vfp better anyway, not so much the microsofties.
> PHP has not done so bad without a corporate sponsor and VFP is way better
> than it..."Andy Trezise" <a...@20chr.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:ueUZPD55IHA.5052@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> > I've been developing inFoxprofor about 10 years now.
>
> > With the news from Microsoft that development has now ceased and it's
> > exclusion from the Visual Studio framework I've been considering moving
> > away to something with more longjevity?
>
> > Does anyone see a future for VFP?
>
> > What's the chances of VFP being developed further - if not by Microsoft
> > then by others?

to Andy,
We need some comments about the German developments in VFP.
I have found a large support base, but all in Europe. Language
barrier.
The ActiveFoxPages (AFP) appeared about 2000, and appeared very
workable.
AFP is available here, in English.

Dan
Mon Jul 21 11:02:48 CDT 2008

Well said.

FWIW, we're hoping to migrate the last of our DOS users to the Windows (VFP)
version some time in the next year. ;-) They'll go kicking and screaming
because they don't want to replace their Win95 machines. <rofl>

Dan

Christof Wollenhaupt wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> Those still using it are migrating away from it as fast as they can.
>
> That's not what I see. Fortunately, in smaller companies it's a
> business decision, not a political decision. Some are migrating, some
> are staying.
>> Few if any IT managers are going to risk their career
>
> Nope. IT managers that decide on technology because of the impact on
> their career have switched in the 90ties. IT managers today are
> either younger folks that replace VFP centric managers. Those usually
> switch to whatever technology they learned during university/college.
> Older IT managers that are still supporting VFP applications decide,
> in my experience, on technical terms rather than career terms.
> Frequently this means to keep maintaining existing projects in VFP
> and start new ones in .NET or Java.
> If there's budget for a rewrite, it depends on several factors what
> they choose. .NET/Java is typically choosen if the budget is
> sufficient for a rewrite and managers expect to keep working for a
> longer period. Often it's not a single project that is the reason not
> to go with VFP, rather the possibility of having training being paid
> by this project. If the budget isn't huge, the application is data
> bound and very inexpensive ($50-$500 a year), the time to retirement
> isn't that long (10-15 years) or development resources are expensive,
> managers tend to stay in FoxPro (VFP and FPD). That seems to be the
> case the farther you go away from the US. My impression is that the
> most active VFP communities are in Asian, Eastern European and
> Spanish speaking countries.
>> but even they are going to move away from it.
>
> There's alaways a problem with generalization or drawing a bigger
> picture from individual incidents. However, one of my clients sold
> another license of his DOS application a few weeks ago. Sometimes
> getting work done for a low price is more important than a modern
> looking UI.
>> It's dead and just waiting for someone to come along and bury it :-)
>
> VB 6 is dead and see how VB developers refuse to accept that. ;-)

Craig
Mon Jul 21 11:01:40 CDT 2008

Ahh.. got... write once, debug everywhere. No thanks.


But still doesn't address my question.
--

Craig Berntson
Microsoft MVP

-------------
"Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k)" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eQvMLNY6IHA.5116@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Craig Berntson wrote:
>> How is .Net a "real runtime" and VFP isn't?
>>
>
> I meant having Foxpro programs running inside a browser runtime,
> *unchanged*! Just like Java. :P
>
> --
> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
> ^ ^ 17:38:01 up 4 days 21:04 3 users load average: 1.07 1.10 1.06
> ? ? (CSSA):
> http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

Gene
Mon Jul 21 19:38:03 CDT 2008

"Paul Pedersen" <nospam@no.spam> wrote:

>"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message > [snip]
>>
>>>> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP? The biggest problem VFP
>>>> has
>>>> ever had is Microsoft. Get rid of them, and VFP could prosper. And it
>>>> would be cross-platform again. Think about it - VFP on Linux would
>>>> become
>>>> very popular very fast.
>>>
>>>That's exactly why MS won't turn it loose.
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> They will not turn it loose because there is not much upside for
>> them.
>
>That's what I said. VFP on Linux would likely be quite popular. I myself
>would probably follow up with it. MS does not want to promote Linux; they
>want to kill Linux.

I make a distinction. Why should Microsoft go to the trouble of
<x> when it will not do them any good? By that reasoning, they are
better off just doing nothing.

Yes, they do not want to promote anything non-Microsoftian, but I
think that my point is the real reason.

If Microsoft could crush Linux by freeing VFP -- a fantasy
scenario, no? -- or achieve some other Microsoftian goal thereby, I
think that they would.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

Gene
Mon Jul 21 19:42:50 CDT 2008

"Christof Wollenhaupt" <msnews.microsoft.com.20050422@prolib.de>
wrote:

>> The biggest problem VFP has ever had is Microsoft.
>
>Sorry, but I don't agree with that... How long did Fox Software own FoxPro?
>Less than ten years. Microsoft, on the other hand, owned and developed
>FoxPro for over 15 years. Fox Software provided the foundation, but the
>product we have now is largely a Microsoft product.

The same reasoning about Microsoft's efforts also applies to the
marketing. How much marketing of VFP by Microsoft have you seen? I
do not mean the pretense where marketing was only to the existing VFP
developers.

Not much?

I remember a Webpage of theirs asking about what DBMS one was
using. There were dozens of entries, both Microsoft and non-Microsoft
products. VFP was not on the list.

>> How about gnu or at least a non-Microsoft VFP?
>
>Like http://guineu.foxpert.com. Runs on Windows Mobile, Linux, Mac, Web, 32
>bit, 64 bit, etc.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

glene77is
Mon Jul 21 22:48:18 CDT 2008

On Jul 19, 5:40 am, "Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k)"
<toylet.toy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Craig Berntson wrote:
> > How is .Net a "real runtime" and VFP isn't?
>
> I meant havingFoxproprograms running inside a browser runtime,
> *unchanged*! Just like Java. :P
>
> --
> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
> ^ ^ 17:38:01 up 4 days 21:04 3 users load average: 1.07 1.10 1.06
> ? ? (CSSA):http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/

I have this quote for you to consider.
I have used this product, back in 2001.
Works very nicely inside an internet Browser.
I designed / wrote FoxPro code, used FoxPro data tables, etc.

I am NOT saying this is the "Cat's Meow!"
but it is something to think about while you are fishing for ideas.

<begin quote>

ProLib Software GmbH

Active FoxPro Pages

So, you're building webpages?

And struggle along with VBA, JAVA, ODBC and ADO?

Then we have news for you:

AFP is an internet server extension that processes program code
inside an HTML page. Like Microsoft's ASP technology, it is a script
engine for xBase code that let's you dynamically present your data on
the internet. But since it does not require ODBC or ADO, access to
your data is much faster. And the built-in programming language
features 400+ commands and functions for any and all application
purposes.


*** Highlights ***

* Extremely simple programming under Frontpage, Visual
Interdev
or even under Windows Notepad.

* xBase - Code is embedded in HTML - Code.

* Ideal for dBase, Clipper and FoxPro programmers.

* Object-oriented programming is fully supported but not
necessary.

* Based on the world's fastest PC Data Base.

* Supports multi-processor technology.

* Instant live testing without compilation.

* Optional compiling results in multiplied speed.

* Built-in hooks for individual extension.

* Supports HTTP- and AFP-Cookies.

* No VBScript, Javascript, or ODBC Driver necessary.

* Use any browser.

* No code visible outside.

* Automatic e-mail in case of error.

* Supports encryption tools, memo indexers and WINAPI calls.

Copyright:
Active FoxPro Pages (AFP) are a product of
ProLib Software GmbH in D-83358 Seebruck, Germany.

ProLib is the leading supplier of MS Visual FoxPro Tools, AddOns,
Training, and Programming in the German-speaking countries of Europe.

<end quote>

www.GeoCities.Com/glene77is

Christof
Mon Jul 21 23:40:54 CDT 2008

Hi Gene,

> The same reasoning about Microsoft's efforts also applies to the
> marketing. How much marketing of VFP by Microsoft have you seen?

More than for Visual Interdev, Microsoft Pascal, FrontPage, SourceSafe,
PowerShell... also more than I see from Paradox, XHarbour, PowerBuilder,
SuperBase, dBase. What I see from Microsoft marketing is either targetted at
the consumer market (XBox, Vista, Office, Windows Mobile) or one of the
really big products (Windows Server, SQL Server, Visual Studio, MSDN,
Microsoft Publishing). There's probably marketing for other tools like the
System Management Server, Update services, or whatever, but I don't see them
often. Guess they are promoted to their group just like VFP was.

Obviously they could have done more marketing for VFP. But they decided not
to around the time VFP 5 came out.and have been pretty consistent ever
since. Instead of convincing developers of (sort of) competing products like
dBase, PowerBuilder, Paradox, etc. to go to VFP, Microsoft wanted them to go
to VB.

Claude
Tue Jul 22 06:05:13 CDT 2008

Don't forget ActiveVFP which is Open Source. I've tried to take some of the
very latest developments for VFP and put them in AVFP. For example,
multi-threading and JQuery...

> to Andy,
> We need some comments about the German developments in VFP.
> I have found a large support base, but all in Europe. Language
> barrier.
> The ActiveFoxPages (AFP) appeared about 2000, and appeared very
> workable.
> AFP is available here, in English.

Paul
Tue Jul 22 11:42:39 CDT 2008

I looked at AFP, and they don't seem to want to sell it. On their site, I
could find no purchase information, not even pricing.



"glene77is" <glen.e77is@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e643ad8e-f142-4ca9-a02b-821993940e8c@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 19, 5:40 am, "Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k)"
> <toylet.toy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Craig Berntson wrote:
>> > How is .Net a "real runtime" and VFP isn't?
>>
>> I meant havingFoxproprograms running inside a browser runtime,
>> *unchanged*! Just like Java. :P
>>
>> --
>> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
>> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
>> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
>> ^ ^ 17:38:01 up 4 days 21:04 3 users load average: 1.07 1.10 1.06
>> ? ?
>> (CSSA):http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/
>
> I have this quote for you to consider.
> I have used this product, back in 2001.
> Works very nicely inside an internet Browser.
> I designed / wrote FoxPro code, used FoxPro data tables, etc.
>
> I am NOT saying this is the "Cat's Meow!"
> but it is something to think about while you are fishing for ideas.
>
> <begin quote>
>
> ProLib Software GmbH
>
> Active FoxPro Pages
>
> So, you're building webpages?
>
> And struggle along with VBA, JAVA, ODBC and ADO?
>
> Then we have news for you:
>
> AFP is an internet server extension that processes program code
> inside an HTML page. Like Microsoft's ASP technology, it is a script
> engine for xBase code that let's you dynamically present your data on
> the internet. But since it does not require ODBC or ADO, access to
> your data is much faster. And the built-in programming language
> features 400+ commands and functions for any and all application
> purposes.
>
>
> *** Highlights ***
>
> * Extremely simple programming under Frontpage, Visual
> Interdev
> or even under Windows Notepad.
>
> * xBase - Code is embedded in HTML - Code.
>
> * Ideal for dBase, Clipper and FoxPro programmers.
>
> * Object-oriented programming is fully supported but not
> necessary.
>
> * Based on the world's fastest PC Data Base.
>
> * Supports multi-processor technology.
>
> * Instant live testing without compilation.
>
> * Optional compiling results in multiplied speed.
>
> * Built-in hooks for individual extension.
>
> * Supports HTTP- and AFP-Cookies.
>
> * No VBScript, Javascript, or ODBC Driver necessary.
>
> * Use any browser.
>
> * No code visible outside.
>
> * Automatic e-mail in case of error.
>
> * Supports encryption tools, memo indexers and WINAPI calls.
>
> Copyright:
> Active FoxPro Pages (AFP) are a product of
> ProLib Software GmbH in D-83358 Seebruck, Germany.
>
> ProLib is the leading supplier of MS Visual FoxPro Tools, AddOns,
> Training, and Programming in the German-speaking countries of Europe.
>
> <end quote>
>
> www.GeoCities.Com/glene77is

Paul
Tue Jul 22 11:45:01 CDT 2008


"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@ocis.net> wrote in message
news:mvaa84taksdcsfe58j2ckc9rkfrqcrcsds@4ax.com...

> How much marketing of VFP by Microsoft have you seen?

I think I saw an ad once, but I can't remember for sure. It must have been
10 or 12 years ago.

glene77is
Wed Jul 23 22:04:14 CDT 2008

On Jul 22, 12:42 pm, "Paul Pedersen" <nos...@no.spam> wrote:
> I looked at AFP, and they don't seem to want to sell it. On their site, I
> could find no purchase information, not even pricing.
>
> "glene77is" <glen.e7...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e643ad8e-f142-4ca9-a02b-821993940e8c@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jul 19, 5:40 am, "Man-wai Chang ToDie (33.6k)"
> > <toylet.toy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Craig Berntson wrote:
> >> > How is .Net a "real runtime" and VFP isn't?
>
> >> I meant havingFoxproprograms running inside a browser runtime,
> >> *unchanged*! Just like Java. :P
>
> >> --
> >> @~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> >> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> >> /( _ )\ (Xubuntu 8.04) Linux 2.6.26
> >> ^ ^ 17:38:01 up 4 days 21:04 3 users load average: 1.07 1.10 1.06
> >> ? ?
> >> (CSSA):http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa/
>
> > I have this quote for you to consider.
> > I have used this product, back in 2001.
> > Works very nicely inside an internet Browser.
> > I designed / wroteFoxProcode, usedFoxProdata tables, etc.
>
> > I am NOT saying this is the "Cat's Meow!"
> > but it is something to think about while you are fishing for ideas.
>
> > <begin quote>
>
> > ProLib Software GmbH
>
> > ActiveFoxProPages
>
> > So, you're building webpages?
>
> > And struggle along with VBA, JAVA, ODBC and ADO?
>
> > Then we have news for you:
>
> > AFP is an internet server extension that processes program code
> > inside an HTML page. Like Microsoft's ASP technology, it is a script
> > engine for xBase code that let's you dynamically present your data on
> > the internet. But since it does not require ODBC or ADO, access to
> > your data is much faster. And the built-in programming language
> > features 400+ commands and functions for any and all application
> > purposes.
>
> > *** Highlights ***
>
> > * Extremely simple programming under Frontpage, Visual
> > Interdev
> > or even under Windows Notepad.
>
> > * xBase - Code is embedded in HTML - Code.
>
> > * Ideal for dBase, Clipper andFoxProprogrammers.
>
> > * Object-oriented programming is fully supported but not
> > necessary.
>
> > * Based on the world's fastest PC Data Base.
>
> > * Supports multi-processor technology.
>
> > * Instant live testing without compilation.
>
> > * Optional compiling results in multiplied speed.
>
> > * Built-in hooks for individual extension.
>
> > * Supports HTTP- and AFP-Cookies.
>
> > * No VBScript, Javascript, or ODBC Driver necessary.
>
> > * Use any browser.
>
> > * No code visible outside.
>
> > * Automatic e-mail in case of error.
>
> > * Supports encryption tools, memo indexers and WINAPI calls.
>
> > Copyright:
> > ActiveFoxProPages (AFP) are a product of
> > ProLib Software GmbH in D-83358 Seebruck, Germany.
>
> > ProLib is the leading supplier of MS VisualFoxProTools, AddOns,
> > Training, and Programming in the German-speaking countries of Europe.
>
> > <end quote>
>
> >www.GeoCities.Com/glene77is

You are right.
In 2000, I simply downloaded AFP from the website.
I wonder how they pay for the effort?
Perhaps they offer programming services using this package.
I recall t