Place Cursor At The Top

OS 10.4.11
Ibook G4
1.5 GB Ram
Entourage 11.3.2

Hi,

On all my emails I want my replies to be at the top of the email. This
includes posting to newsgroups, and responding to NG posts,
I've tried the choices in Preferences>Reply and Forward, and the cursor
placement still shows up at the bottom of the message, the trail.
What do I do? Or what am I doing wrong?

Thanks, Rafael

Michel
Thu May 08 14:56:33 CDT 2008

See here for more details:

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq_topic/reply.html#reply2>


On 08/05/08 21:23, in article C448A12F.6F1E%rmnospam@abc.com, "Rafael
Montserrat" <rmnospam@abc.com> wrote:

> OS 10.4.11
> Ibook G4
> 1.5 GB Ram
> Entourage 11.3.2
>
> Hi,
>
> On all my emails I want my replies to be at the top of the email. This
> includes posting to newsgroups, and responding to NG posts,
> I've tried the choices in Preferences>Reply and Forward, and the cursor
> placement still shows up at the bottom of the message, the trail.
> What do I do? Or what am I doing wrong?
>
> Thanks, Rafael
>
>

--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP
Office:mac (Entourage & Word)

*** Please always reply to the newsgroup. ***

Rafael
Thu May 08 15:38:06 CDT 2008

On 5/8/08 12:56 PM, in article C4492791.E35E%mbintener@NOmvpsSPAM.org,
"Michel Bintener" <mbintener@NOmvpsSPAM.org> wrote:

> See here for more details:
>
> <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq_topic/reply.html#reply2>
>
>
> On 08/05/08 21:23, in article C448A12F.6F1E%rmnospam@abc.com, "Rafael
> Montserrat" <rmnospam@abc.com> wrote:
>
>> OS 10.4.11
>> Ibook G4
>> 1.5 GB Ram
>> Entourage 11.3.2
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On all my emails I want my replies to be at the top of the email. This
>> includes posting to newsgroups, and responding to NG posts,
>> I've tried the choices in Preferences>Reply and Forward, and the cursor
>> placement still shows up at the bottom of the message, the trail.
>> What do I do? Or what am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks, Rafael
>>
>>
OK, Michel. That's a good site. Here's one thing from the site I found
interesting:
"Why is top posting frowned upon on a list?
Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation."

I see that differently. I see the most recent entry logically at the top,
because that's where the conversation is happening. Present time?when I
open the email, there's the response to my most recent post.

I do agree that mixing top and bottom can be confusing, so if the norm is to
post at the bottom, then I'll do it that way.*

However, in reply to some recent posts of mine on the Word NG, I'm getting
the responses from some MVPs on the top, which, when I opened the email, I
liked, because as I said, right there is the correspondent's reply. On the
word NG see John McGhie and Cyber Taz' replies to my post subject:
<'Browse By Page' Doesn't Show The Entire Page>

Thanks, Rafael


*"Note: For lists and newsgroups, posting on top mixed with bottom posting
can make following a thread confusing especially when there are several
posts to the message."

Diane
Thu May 08 16:27:48 CDT 2008

"Rafael Montserrat" wrote:

> OK, Michel. That's a good site. Here's one thing from the site I found
> interesting:
> "Why is top posting frowned upon on a list?
> Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation."

It depends on when you joined the conversation. :-)

> I do agree that mixing top and bottom can be confusing,

Exactly. Top vs. bottom posting and plain vs. HTML are both topics that seem
to invoke a lot of emotions. It's just part of what we deal with when there
are no rules.

My thoughts are... when you are asking for help, you want your question to
get the attention it deserves. You use plain text so you can make sure
everyone can read it. You give pertinent info to help solve your problem and
you create a subject that actually defines your problem.

Once you have everyone's attention, then if the relies are all jumbled with
top and bottom posting, it's confusing and makes it harder for others to
offer their help.

In the business setting, top posting is the norm. they want all of the
previous message quoted. In lists, you edit and reply to portions of the
message below the quoted text to make your answers clearer.

My 2 Cents....adjusted for inflation to my 4 cents. :-)

--
Diane

William
Thu May 08 22:53:33 CDT 2008

Diane Ross wrote:

> "Rafael Montserrat" wrote:
>
>> OK, Michel. That's a good site. Here's one thing from the site I found
>> interesting:
>> "Why is top posting frowned upon on a list?
>> Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation."
>
> It depends on when you joined the conversation. :-)
>
>> I do agree that mixing top and bottom can be confusing,
>
> Exactly. Top vs. bottom posting and plain vs. HTML are both topics that seem
> to invoke a lot of emotions. It's just part of what we deal with when there
> are no rules.

I love this topic! :-)

I personally don't care if something is top- or bottom- posted so long
as I can quickly and easily identity what's being quoted and what's new.

That means I snip out what's not needed and I try to make sure no on has
to scroll to begin reading my reply. Quoted material usually looks very
different from new material in most newsreaders. Good snipping means the
order of reading doesn't have to be very important.

I'll call your 4 cents and raise you a nickel. ;-)

--

bill

William M. Smith, Microsoft Interop MVP - Mac/Windows
Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>

Rafael
Thu May 15 18:17:56 CDT 2008

Bill Smith wrote:
I try to make sure no on has
to scroll to begin reading my reply.

Rafael writes (?)
OK. To me that would mean your reply would be on top ... No scrolling to
begin reading. I like that.

Diane Ross wrote

In the business setting, top posting is the norm. they want all of the
previous message quoted. In lists, you edit and reply to portions of the
message below the quoted text to make your answers clearer.

Rafael asks:
What are 'lists' and how do they differ from business correspondence? I
understand that lists are replied to on the bottom.
Why whould your answers be clearer below, at the bottom?

This correspondence reminds me of Abbot and Costello's "Who's on first?"

Rafael






On 5/8/08 8:53 PM, in article u$qeBhYsIHA.6096@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl,
"William Smith" <mecklists@REM0VETH1S.comcast.net> wrote:

> Diane Ross wrote:
>
>> "Rafael Montserrat" wrote:
>>
>>> OK, Michel. That's a good site. Here's one thing from the site I found
>>> interesting:
>>> "Why is top posting frowned upon on a list?
>>> Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation."
>>
>> It depends on when you joined the conversation. :-)
>>
>>> I do agree that mixing top and bottom can be confusing,
>>
>> Exactly. Top vs. bottom posting and plain vs. HTML are both topics that seem
>> to invoke a lot of emotions. It's just part of what we deal with when there
>> are no rules.
>
> I love this topic! :-)
>
> I personally don't care if something is top- or bottom- posted so long
> as I can quickly and easily identity what's being quoted and what's new.
>
> That means I snip out what's not needed and I try to make sure no on has
> to scroll to begin reading my reply. Quoted material usually looks very
> different from new material in most newsreaders. Good snipping means the
> order of reading doesn't have to be very important.
>
> I'll call your 4 cents and raise you a nickel. ;-)

Diane
Thu May 15 18:31:24 CDT 2008

"Rafael Montserrat" wrote:

> Diane Ross wrote
>
> In the business setting, top posting is the norm. they want all of the
> previous message quoted. In lists, you edit and reply to portions of the
> message below the quoted text to make your answers clearer.
>
> Rafael asks:
> What are 'lists' and how do they differ from business correspondence? I
> understand that lists are replied to on the bottom.
> Why whould your answers be clearer below, at the bottom?

Lists are like this newsgroup where you ask a question and multiple people
reply with an answer. Some are reading it after it starts and need to see
the progression of what was asked and answered. Some users will reply below
and other above and after several messages it's hard to know what was said.

The messages are not just for the person that asked the question, but to
others that are searching for answers.

Usually business correspondence is with fewer people and they like every
word documented rather than the pertinent parts.

This is rather like Public vs Private.

--
Diane

Rafael
Thu May 15 18:31:06 CDT 2008

Snipping

I'm a novice at 'snipping'. I mentioned at some point either here or on the
Word NG that I like to see the whole string kept throughout the
conversations. I gather you all find that distracting, or something.

Rafael


On 5/15/08 4:17 PM, in article C45212B4.7DD4%rmnospam@abc.com, "Rafael
Montserrat" <rmnospam@abc.com> wrote:

> Bill Smith wrote:
> I try to make sure no on has
> to scroll to begin reading my reply.
>
> Rafael writes (?)
> OK. To me that would mean your reply would be on top ... No scrolling to
> begin reading. I like that.
>
> Diane Ross wrote
>
> In the business setting, top posting is the norm. they want all of the
> previous message quoted. In lists, you edit and reply to portions of the
> message below the quoted text to make your answers clearer.
>
> Rafael asks:
> What are 'lists' and how do they differ from business correspondence? I
> understand that lists are replied to on the bottom.
> Why whould your answers be clearer below, at the bottom?
>
> This correspondence reminds me of Abbot and Costello's "Who's on first?"
>
> Rafael
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/8/08 8:53 PM, in article u$qeBhYsIHA.6096@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl,
> "William Smith" <mecklists@REM0VETH1S.comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Diane Ross wrote:
>>
>>> "Rafael Montserrat" wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK, Michel. That's a good site. Here's one thing from the site I found
>>>> interesting:
>>>> "Why is top posting frowned upon on a list?
>>>> Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation."
>>>
>>> It depends on when you joined the conversation. :-)
>>>
>>>> I do agree that mixing top and bottom can be confusing,
>>>
>>> Exactly. Top vs. bottom posting and plain vs. HTML are both topics that seem
>>> to invoke a lot of emotions. It's just part of what we deal with when there
>>> are no rules.
>>
>> I love this topic! :-)
>>
>> I personally don't care if something is top- or bottom- posted so long
>> as I can quickly and easily identity what's being quoted and what's new.
>>
>> That means I snip out what's not needed and I try to make sure no on has
>> to scroll to begin reading my reply. Quoted material usually looks very
>> different from new material in most newsreaders. Good snipping means the
>> order of reading doesn't have to be very important.
>>
>> I'll call your 4 cents and raise you a nickel. ;-)
>
>

Diane
Thu May 15 18:47:53 CDT 2008

"Rafael Montserrat" wrote:

> I'm a novice at 'snipping'. I mentioned at some point either here or on the
> Word NG that I like to see the whole string kept throughout the
> conversations. I gather you all find that distracting, or something.

No, but I like my answer to go to the specific item. Often users ask several
questions and lumping everything in one place is not as clear.

--
Diane

William
Fri May 16 21:02:34 CDT 2008

Rafael Montserrat wrote:

> Bill Smith wrote:
> I try to make sure no on has
> to scroll to begin reading my reply.
>
> Rafael writes (?)
> OK. To me that would mean your reply would be on top ... No scrolling to
> begin reading. I like that.

Not at all. Unless you have your preview pane on bottom and very, very
short then you shouldn't have to scroll to begin reading this reply. And
it's on bottom.

> Rafael asks:
> What are 'lists' and how do they differ from business correspondence? I
> understand that lists are replied to on the bottom.
> Why whould your answers be clearer below, at the bottom?

In addition to Diane's description I think a big difference is *when*
messages are read. E-mail correspondence can sometimes become a
conversation between people where they are replying almost as soon as
they receive the messages.

Lists are conversations over a longer time and are expected to branch
off into sub-dicsussions. That's why a newsreader that respects
"threading by reference" and offers indented threading is valuable.
That's why I prefer Thunderbird over Entourage for newsgroups.

> This correspondence reminds me of Abbot and Costello's "Who's on first?"

I think that's a perfect analogy. And for all the passion that goes into
these "discussions" the end result is sometimes worth laughing at. ;-)


--

bill

William M. Smith, Microsoft Interop MVP - Mac/Windows
Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>