Command - Delete in Entourage

Command - Delete in Entourage seems to sumarily, without a confirmation
dialog, delete the current email you are composing. (In Word, it
deletes backards one word.)

I don't know if this is a bug or a feature. MS, can you fix this? It is
really a horrible usability issue.

Geoff

Daiya
Sun Jan 02 10:46:34 CST 2005

Which version are you using? In Ent 2004, I get a confirmation dialog.

Since Word lets you reset commands and entourage does not :( resetting it in
Word might re-set your habits to avoid the issue. Tad extreme, though.

DM

On 1/1/05 1:51 PM, "geoff.fitch@gmail.com" wrote:

> Command - Delete in Entourage seems to sumarily, without a confirmation
> dialog, delete the current email you are composing. (In Word, it
> deletes backards one word.)
>
> I don't know if this is a bug or a feature. MS, can you fix this? It is
> really a horrible usability issue.
>
> Geoff
>

Daiya
Sun Jan 02 11:43:17 CST 2005

>> Since Word lets you reset commands and entourage does not :(
>
> Yes, It does - under the 'notification' pane of preferences:

Ah thanks, Barry. I was talking (obscurely) about re-assigning the
cmd-delete command, but perhaps the original poster's problem is caused by
not having "require confirmation when deleting" checked.

I've actually never totally understood what the "Reset Confirmation Dialogs"
does--my assumption is that if you once checked "don't show this again" it
clears that and starts showing you those dialogs again, but I just made that
up and am not very sure about it?

Daiya

Paul
Sun Jan 02 12:16:58 CST 2005

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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On 1/2/05 9:31 AM, in article BDFDE06F.36AEB%barry@mvps.org.INVALID, "Barry
Wainwright" <barry@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote:

> On 2/1/05 4:46 pm, in article BDFD656A.11D6A%daiyaNOSPAM@mvps.org.INVALID,
> "Daiya Mitchell" <daiyaNOSPAM@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote:
>
>> > Since Word lets you reset commands and entourage does not :(
>
> Yes, It does - under the 'notification' pane of preferences:

I think Daiya may have been using "reset" differently from you (and that
Entourage button), Barry. She didn't mean "reset to default" - which in
Entourage's Notification has an even more restricted meaning. namely "Turn
confirmation dialogs that you have turned off back on again". She meant
"reset" to whatever you want. And by "commands" she was referring to
keyboard shortcuts. She's saying that Word lets you customize keyboard
shortcuts for (virtually) all "commands". i.e. controls - menu items and
toolbar buttons - while Entourage does not. This is perfectly true. This was
just a terminology conflict, and I think Daiya's (well, Word's) terminology
is a little closer to normal English usage than Entourage's very restricted
usage of the jargon to mean just that one type of confirmation dialog
revival, no?

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

--B_3187505819_14877560
Content-type: text/html;
charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Command - Delete in Entourage</TITLE>
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<BODY>
On 1/=
2/05 9:31 AM, in article BDFDE06F.36AEB%barry@mvps.org.INVALID, "Barry =
Wainwright" <barry@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote: 
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>On 2/1/05 4:46 pm, in article =
BDFD656A.11D6A%daiyaNOSPAM@mvps.org.INVALID, "Daiya Mitchell=
" <daiyaNOSPAM@mvps.org.INVALID&=
gt; wrote: 
 
> Since Word lets you reset commands and entourage=
does not :( 
 
Yes, It does - under the 'notification' pane of preferences: 
</BLOCKQUOTE> 
I think Daiya may have been using "reset" differently from you (a=
nd that Entourage button), Barry. She didn't mean "reset to default&quo=
t; - which in Entourage's Notification has an even more restricted meaning. =
namely "Turn confirmation dialogs that you have turned off back on agai=
n". She meant "reset" to whatever you want. And by "comm=
ands" she was referring to keyboard shortcuts. She's saying that Word l=
ets you customize keyboard shortcuts for (virtually) all "commands&quot=
;. i.e. controls - menu items and toolbar buttons - while Entourage does not=
. This is perfectly true. This was just a terminology conflict, and I think =
Daiya's (well, Word's) terminology is a little closer to normal English usag=
e than Entourage's very restricted usage of the jargon to mean just that one=
type of confirmation dialog revival, no? 
 
-- 
Paul Berkowitz 
MVP MacOffice 
Entourage FAQ Page: <a href=3D"http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html">=
<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html></a> 
AppleScripts for Entourage: <a href=3D"http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/=
"><http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/></a> 
 
Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will=
be ignored. 
 
PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using - **200=
4**, X  or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions otherwi=
se. 

</BODY>
</HTML>

--B_3187505819_14877560--

Paul
Sun Jan 02 13:04:09 CST 2005

On 1/2/05 9:43 AM, in article BDFD72B5.11D98%daiyaNOSPAM@mvps.org.INVALID,
"Daiya Mitchell" <daiyaNOSPAM@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote:

>>> Since Word lets you reset commands and entourage does not :(
>>
>> Yes, It does - under the 'notification' pane of preferences:
>
> Ah thanks, Barry. I was talking (obscurely) about re-assigning the
> cmd-delete command, but perhaps the original poster's problem is caused by
> not having "require confirmation when deleting" checked.
>
> I've actually never totally understood what the "Reset Confirmation Dialogs"
> does--my assumption is that if you once checked "don't show this again" it
> clears that and starts showing you those dialogs again, but I just made that
> up and am not very sure about it?

You're correct, Daiya. And since the original question had to do with the
keyboard shortcut cmd-delete deleting new message window, and nothing to do
with confirmation dialogs, I think Barry may have been on "auto-pilot" and
just got misled by the term "Reset" and also perhaps by your unorthodox (for
Entourage) use of the term "command" which might have obscured the issue a
bit (or not).

Word uses the term "Commands" in its Tools/Customize dialog to mean the
actions taken by menu items and toolbar buttons. That's a rather specialized
use of the term (brought over from Word Windows, I guess) that is not so
common on the Mac, and is not used anywhere the Entourage Help. (Entourage
Help seems to talk about keyboard shortcuts for Entourage "functions".
Hmmm.) Probably it's best to use some other term to avoid this sort of
confusion, although in the context of the original question it seemed clear
to me what you were talking about. I'm not sure that "command" misled Barry,
but he'll tell us soon...

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

geoff
Sun Jan 02 13:39:55 CST 2005

Thanks for all your feedback. This is really helpful. I am using
Entourage 2004 and had "require confirmation before deleting" turned
off.

I want to refine my complaint:

cmd-delete *permanently* deletes a message. As far as I know the only
other place Entourage permanently deletes a message is when emptying
the Deleted Items folder or when deleting a message directly from that
folder. My complaint is that a) cmd-delete while composing a message
violates the precept that deleted items are first moved to the DI
folder and b) Entourage has a relatively catastrophic command assigned
to a key that in other office programs is assigned to a relatively
benign command, and one which (at least on a laptop) can be easily
confused with other commonly used key sequences.

Anyway, I had a few cases of totally losing the message I was composing
because of this. Now that I have written this dissertation about it, i
feel confident I'll remember *which* -delete sequence will trash my
message! :)

Geoff

Paul
Sun Jan 02 14:16:14 CST 2005

On 1/2/05 11:39 AM, in article
1104694795.676125.76730@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com,
"geoff.fitch@gmail.com" <geoff.fitch@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all your feedback. This is really helpful. I am using
> Entourage 2004 and had "require confirmation before deleting" turned
> off.
>
> I want to refine my complaint:
>
> cmd-delete *permanently* deletes a message. As far as I know the only
> other place Entourage permanently deletes a message is when emptying
> the Deleted Items folder or when deleting a message directly from that
> folder. My complaint is that a) cmd-delete while composing a message
> violates the precept that deleted items are first moved to the DI
> folder and b) Entourage has a relatively catastrophic command assigned
> to a key that in other office programs is assigned to a relatively
> benign command, and one which (at least on a laptop) can be easily
> confused with other commonly used key sequences.
>
> Anyway, I had a few cases of totally losing the message I was composing
> because of this. Now that I have written this dissertation about it, i
> feel confident I'll remember *which* -delete sequence will trash my
> message! :)
>
We discussed this a few days ago. Entourage only permanently deleted a NEW
UNSAVED message WINDOW - not a saved message - with cmd-Delete.

The best thing to remember is that Entourage - unlike the Finder - never
needs 'command-' key to delete anything else. Just plain Delete will delete
selected messages (moving them to Deleted Items folder, whence you can
retrieve them) and will delete other selected saved items - contacts,
events, tasks, notes - but ONLY after giving you a confirmation dialog that
checks if you really want to delete. You can't even turn that dialog off,
unlike most other nag dialogs in Entourage.

You have found the one and only such command (!) that can do this. I expect
it may originally have been designed as a sort of power-user's tool, back in
some earlier version. I expect they forgot about it, since it's totally
undocumented anywhere. However the Trash button in the message toolbar
(which doesn't exist in new news message windows for some reason) and
Edit/Delete Message work the same way. maybe there should be a Nag
confirmation dialog as there is when you try to Quit Entourage with unsaved
message windows open. I think a good case could be made for that.

In the meantime, never ever use cmd-delete in Entourage. Just use Delete and
you'll be OK.
>

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

geoff
Sun Jan 02 15:00:21 CST 2005

Good points, thanks.

I think perhaps the pertinent issue here is that I've created data that
hasn't been saved. In lots of situations when you go to delete
something you have the option whether or not to have the nag dialog
before deleting. But when you say create a word file with unsaved
changes, there's no way to quit word without it asking you if you want
to save.

I hope I don't get roasted for the comparison :) but in outlook, when
you do this kind of operation it doesn't give you a "are you sure you
want to delete" but "you have unsaved changes" dialog.
OK - i'm ofi it... thanks for your help.

Geoff

Paul
Sun Jan 02 15:04:37 CST 2005

On 1/2/05 12:16 PM, in article BDFD968E.838C1%berkowit@spoof_silcom.com,
"Paul Berkowitz" <berkowit@spoof_silcom.com> wrote:

> I expect
> it may originally have been designed as a sort of power-user's tool

I think that must be it. Clicking the Close button, selecting File/Close, or
pressing cmd-W all bring up a confirmation dialog which can't be turned off.
There might be a desire for cmd-Delete by power users to avoid this nag, but
it really needs to be documented somewhere.

By the way, command-delete does nothing in TextEdit, nor Excel for that
matter. Nor in Tex-Edit Plus. Are you sure it's not just in Word that it
deletes a word? In BBEdit Lite, it deletes text all the way back to the
beginning of the line (not paragraph if soft-wrapped). That doesn't make it
universal. In the Finder, of course, it deletes a file.

Best of all would be if cmd-Z could reverse the deletion.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

Daiya
Sun Jan 02 15:19:37 CST 2005

On 1/2/05 11:39 AM, "geoff.fitch@gmail.com" wrote:
> Now that I have written this dissertation about it, i
> feel confident I'll remember *which* -delete sequence will trash my
> message! :)
I should think turning the confirmation dialogs back on will train you
pretty quickly.

Cmd-shift-arrow selects the previous word, and then you can overtype it, if
that helps.

DM

Daiya
Sun Jan 02 15:19:46 CST 2005

On 1/2/05 11:04 AM, "Paul Berkowitz" wrote:

> Word uses the term "Commands" in its Tools/Customize dialog to mean the
> actions taken by menu items and toolbar buttons. That's a rather specialized
> use of the term (brought over from Word Windows, I guess) that is not so
> common on the Mac, and is not used anywhere the Entourage Help.
Thanks Paul. I will have to be more alert to such nuances...
Daiya

R
Fri Jan 07 17:00:21 CST 2005

It's always bothered me that Entourage doesn't conform to Word's command key
combos when it comes to text editing, and particularly that it links such a
useful tool (full word delete) to a destructive action. Is it too much to
hope that some form of full word delete, and better subscription to Word's
text handling shortcuts might be in store for Entourage 200whatever? I
dunno, but still I hope.

Kirk

On 1/2/05 2:16 PM, in article BDFD968E.838C1%berkowit@spoof_silcom.com,
"Paul Berkowitz" <berkowit@spoof_silcom.com> wrote:

> On 1/2/05 11:39 AM, in article
> 1104694795.676125.76730@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com,
> "geoff.fitch@gmail.com" <geoff.fitch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all your feedback. This is really helpful. I am using
>> Entourage 2004 and had "require confirmation before deleting" turned
>> off.
>>
>> I want to refine my complaint:
>>
>> cmd-delete *permanently* deletes a message. As far as I know the only
>> other place Entourage permanently deletes a message is when emptying
>> the Deleted Items folder or when deleting a message directly from that
>> folder. My complaint is that a) cmd-delete while composing a message
>> violates the precept that deleted items are first moved to the DI
>> folder and b) Entourage has a relatively catastrophic command assigned
>> to a key that in other office programs is assigned to a relatively
>> benign command, and one which (at least on a laptop) can be easily
>> confused with other commonly used key sequences.
>>
>> Anyway, I had a few cases of totally losing the message I was composing
>> because of this. Now that I have written this dissertation about it, i
>> feel confident I'll remember *which* -delete sequence will trash my
>> message! :)
>>
> We discussed this a few days ago. Entourage only permanently deleted a NEW
> UNSAVED message WINDOW - not a saved message - with cmd-Delete.
>
> The best thing to remember is that Entourage - unlike the Finder - never
> needs 'command-' key to delete anything else. Just plain Delete will delete
> selected messages (moving them to Deleted Items folder, whence you can
> retrieve them) and will delete other selected saved items - contacts,
> events, tasks, notes - but ONLY after giving you a confirmation dialog that
> checks if you really want to delete. You can't even turn that dialog off,
> unlike most other nag dialogs in Entourage.
>
> You have found the one and only such command (!) that can do this. I expect
> it may originally have been designed as a sort of power-user's tool, back in
> some earlier version. I expect they forgot about it, since it's totally
> undocumented anywhere. However the Trash button in the message toolbar
> (which doesn't exist in new news message windows for some reason) and
> Edit/Delete Message work the same way. maybe there should be a Nag
> confirmation dialog as there is when you try to Quit Entourage with unsaved
> message windows open. I think a good case could be made for that.
>
> In the meantime, never ever use cmd-delete in Entourage. Just use Delete and
> you'll be OK.
>>

Command - Delete in Entourage

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by Daiya

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by Daiya

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by Paul

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by Paul

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by geoff

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by Paul

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by geoff

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by Paul

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by Daiya

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by Daiya

Re: Command - Delete in Entourage by R