64 bit development

Hi, I have a few questions regarding the subject.

1) Will executables/drivers built for IA64 work on x64 and vice versa? Is
there any common subset of assembly instructions that allows to have a
single binary for both platforms?

2) I had an impression that I can't use x86 to compile 64 bit user and
kernel mode software. However, I tried DDK's IA64 build environment on x86,
and it built a driver. So can I use a x86 (32 bit) machine to build 64 bit
software with the DDK and VS 2003 compilers?

3) I heard IA64 strictly enforces data alignment, while AMD x64 is more
tolerant. Does that mean it makes more sense to use IA64 for testing
purposes? Is everything that comes from Intel is IA64?

4) I want to get a 64bit PC to test drivers. What's the cheapest CPU option?
Now can use Pentium D, or should it be Itanium, Opteron, Athlon? I don't
need a dual core CPU, do I? Of course, I plan to buy a dual CPU motherboard.

Thanks.
--

Don
Tue Aug 09 18:04:39 CDT 2005

Answers inline:
"Don Brash" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:ORXlz%23SnFHA.3828@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Hi, I have a few questions regarding the subject.
>
> 1) Will executables/drivers built for IA64 work on x64 and vice versa? Is
> there any common subset of assembly instructions that allows to have a
> single binary for both platforms?

No, IA64 is totatlly incompatible with x64. The IA64 is Itanium which is
incompatible with anything else, especially anything useful.

> 2) I had an impression that I can't use x86 to compile 64 bit user and
> kernel mode software. However, I tried DDK's IA64 build environment on
> x86, and it built a driver. So can I use a x86 (32 bit) machine to build
> 64 bit software with the DDK and VS 2003 compilers?

You can cross compile on from x86 to both IA64 and X64.

> 3) I heard IA64 strictly enforces data alignment, while AMD x64 is more
> tolerant. Does that mean it makes more sense to use IA64 for testing
> purposes? Is everything that comes from Intel is IA64?

While IA64 is more strict, why would you test on it (since no one is buying
this crap). Intel has come out with machines with EMT64 which is their
knockoff of the AMD x64 architecture, since AMD is selling a incredible
rate.


> 4) I want to get a 64bit PC to test drivers. What's the cheapest CPU
> option? Now can use Pentium D, or should it be Itanium, Opteron, Athlon? I
> don't need a dual core CPU, do I? Of course, I plan to buy a dual CPU
> motherboard.

Well the cheapest option is probably a dual core Athalon 64. But, you
should also be looking at questions like can the system suport more than 4GB
of memory (good for testing that your driver and device handle those extra
bits), and what type of slots does the board have, since with PCI Express
the world is changing.



--
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply

Calvin
Tue Aug 09 18:39:43 CDT 2005

"Don Burn" <burn@stopspam.acm.org> wrote in message
news:uZVX$aTnFHA.2580@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

> While IA64 is more strict, why would you test on it (since no one is
> buying this crap). Intel has come out with machines with EMT64 which is
> their knockoff of the AMD x64 architecture, since AMD is selling a
> incredible rate.

Well, well, well...I hope it was true but it seems picking up. I was told
not to forget the ia64 version for our ndis6 driver. MSFT wants an in-box
driver for Vista ia64.

--
Calvin Guan (Windows DDK MVP)
NetXtreme Longhorn Miniport Prime
Broadcom Corp. www.broadcom.com

Don
Tue Aug 09 19:09:29 CDT 2005

Thanks a lot.


"Don Burn" <burn@stopspam.acm.org> wrote in message
news:uZVX$aTnFHA.2580@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Answers inline:
> "Don Brash" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:ORXlz%23SnFHA.3828@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> Hi, I have a few questions regarding the subject.
>>
>> 1) Will executables/drivers built for IA64 work on x64 and vice versa? Is
>> there any common subset of assembly instructions that allows to have a
>> single binary for both platforms?
>
> No, IA64 is totatlly incompatible with x64. The IA64 is Itanium which is
> incompatible with anything else, especially anything useful.
>
>> 2) I had an impression that I can't use x86 to compile 64 bit user and
>> kernel mode software. However, I tried DDK's IA64 build environment on
>> x86, and it built a driver. So can I use a x86 (32 bit) machine to build
>> 64 bit software with the DDK and VS 2003 compilers?
>
> You can cross compile on from x86 to both IA64 and X64.
>
>> 3) I heard IA64 strictly enforces data alignment, while AMD x64 is more
>> tolerant. Does that mean it makes more sense to use IA64 for testing
>> purposes? Is everything that comes from Intel is IA64?
>
> While IA64 is more strict, why would you test on it (since no one is
> buying this crap). Intel has come out with machines with EMT64 which is
> their knockoff of the AMD x64 architecture, since AMD is selling a
> incredible rate.
>
>
>> 4) I want to get a 64bit PC to test drivers. What's the cheapest CPU
>> option? Now can use Pentium D, or should it be Itanium, Opteron, Athlon?
>> I don't need a dual core CPU, do I? Of course, I plan to buy a dual CPU
>> motherboard.
>
> Well the cheapest option is probably a dual core Athalon 64. But, you
> should also be looking at questions like can the system suport more than
> 4GB of memory (good for testing that your driver and device handle those
> extra bits), and what type of slots does the board have, since with PCI
> Express the world is changing.
>
>
>
> --
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
>

Don
Tue Aug 09 19:32:06 CDT 2005

Calvin,

The amount of money that is changing hands (mostly from Intel and HP)
to keep IA64 is staggering, not up to the national debt, but more than
enough to fund a year of statups in the valley. I know people who were
going to drop support, who got paid more than ten times what it cost them to
keep it.


--
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply



"Calvin Guan" <hguan@nospam.broadcom.com> wrote in message
news:ukPPvuTnFHA.3408@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> "Don Burn" <burn@stopspam.acm.org> wrote in message
> news:uZVX$aTnFHA.2580@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
>> While IA64 is more strict, why would you test on it (since no one is
>> buying this crap). Intel has come out with machines with EMT64 which is
>> their knockoff of the AMD x64 architecture, since AMD is selling a
>> incredible rate.
>
> Well, well, well...I hope it was true but it seems picking up. I was told
> not to forget the ia64 version for our ndis6 driver. MSFT wants an in-box
> driver for Vista ia64.
>
> --
> Calvin Guan (Windows DDK MVP)
> NetXtreme Longhorn Miniport Prime
> Broadcom Corp. www.broadcom.com
>
>

Bill
Wed Aug 10 09:25:09 CDT 2005

>with the DDK and VS 2003 compilers

BTW, the modern DDKs ship with their own tools (compilers, linkers, etc.) so
one should never use the VS 2003 compiler to build a driver. The DDK
installs build environments for every OS 2000 and up, so there is no reason
to use external compilers.

Bill M.

"Don Brash" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:ORXlz%23SnFHA.3828@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Hi, I have a few questions regarding the subject.
>
> 1) Will executables/drivers built for IA64 work on x64 and vice versa? Is
> there any common subset of assembly instructions that allows to have a
> single binary for both platforms?
>
> 2) I had an impression that I can't use x86 to compile 64 bit user and
> kernel mode software. However, I tried DDK's IA64 build environment on
> x86, and it built a driver. So can I use a x86 (32 bit) machine to build
> 64 bit software with the DDK and VS 2003 compilers?
>
> 3) I heard IA64 strictly enforces data alignment, while AMD x64 is more
> tolerant. Does that mean it makes more sense to use IA64 for testing
> purposes? Is everything that comes from Intel is IA64?
>
> 4) I want to get a 64bit PC to test drivers. What's the cheapest CPU
> option? Now can use Pentium D, or should it be Itanium, Opteron, Athlon? I
> don't need a dual core CPU, do I? Of course, I plan to buy a dual CPU
> motherboard.
>
> Thanks.
> --
>
>
>