WHQL, HCT, WHDC, Windows Logo, Driver signing

WHQL, HCT, WHDC, Windows Logo, designed for windows, Driver signing.....are
these all same. Is windows logo requirement and driver signing are same?

I am not able to find how to get my driver signed. This is 1394 driver for
peripheral device. This driver is on top of Microsoft 1394 stack and is
designed in the lines of 1394diag.sys. All I can find is 1394 bus driver or
1394 hardware. I cant see any mention of 1394 peripheral driver. I dont
understand why 1394 peripheral link is not even refered from 1394 bus driver.
Someone please refer the link.

After Microsft arm twisted me into driver signing with otherwise crappy
driver installation, I dont find proper information on this.

Thanks.

Don
Wed Apr 13 09:26:02 CDT 2005

First some definitions:

WHQL - Windows Hardware Quality Labs - this is the group that tests
drivers/hardware
HCT - Hardware Compatibility Tests - this is the test suite for tesing the
drivers/hardware
WHDC - Windows Hardware and Driver Central - this is the website
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/default.mspx for getting data on drivers and
testing

You haven't given us much data. What does you device do? If it is a
standard type of device you need to run the logo program for that device.
If it is not a standard device there is an Unclassified logo program. If
you haven't do so, go to http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/whql/default.mspx for
the basic information.



--
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
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"Raj" <Raj@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:AE913B09-6447-4260-8417-322C7A1942E2@microsoft.com...
> WHQL, HCT, WHDC, Windows Logo, designed for windows, Driver
> signing.....are
> these all same. Is windows logo requirement and driver signing are same?
>
> I am not able to find how to get my driver signed. This is 1394 driver for
> peripheral device. This driver is on top of Microsoft 1394 stack and is
> designed in the lines of 1394diag.sys. All I can find is 1394 bus driver
> or
> 1394 hardware. I cant see any mention of 1394 peripheral driver. I dont
> understand why 1394 peripheral link is not even refered from 1394 bus
> driver.
> Someone please refer the link.
>
> After Microsft arm twisted me into driver signing with otherwise crappy
> driver installation, I dont find proper information on this.
>
> Thanks.

Tulup
Thu Apr 14 00:47:02 CDT 2005

Is it possible to get driver cat. for the driver like AVStream\avssamp DDK
dir example? It is software emulated driver, no real device is attached.

r_konjeti
Thu Apr 14 08:15:16 CDT 2005

when microsoft says "hardware" do they mean hardware on PC. For
example, OHCI 1394 card installed in PCI slot or do they mean 1394
device connected to PC. My driver is upper level driver that is not
involved on PC hardware. It uses microsoft 1394 stack. So there is no
hardware certification required, just device driver should be signed I
guess. I dont understand how will they test my upper level driver if
they dont have my peripheral device. I dont want to microsoft
certification for peripheral device because I dont want to go to
Microsoft for every minor change.

Don
Thu Apr 14 09:12:47 CDT 2005

If you are connecting a physical piece of hardware to the PC you can get it
logo'd. Most logo testing is done by the firm developing the device and
submitted to Microsoft for review. As part of the agreement they can ask
for a loan of one of your devices to perform the testing.

You do not have to logo your device. Of course a lot of firms and
individuals will not by your device without it being logo'd. The cost of
logo'ing is small, and the last I knew a submission to Microsoft with all
tests passing was typically appoved in less than 2 business days.


--
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply



<r_konjeti@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:1113484516.095238.303370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> when microsoft says "hardware" do they mean hardware on PC. For
> example, OHCI 1394 card installed in PCI slot or do they mean 1394
> device connected to PC. My driver is upper level driver that is not
> involved on PC hardware. It uses microsoft 1394 stack. So there is no
> hardware certification required, just device driver should be signed I
> guess. I dont understand how will they test my upper level driver if
> they dont have my peripheral device. I dont want to microsoft
> certification for peripheral device because I dont want to go to
> Microsoft for every minor change.
>

r_konjeti
Thu Apr 14 09:36:09 CDT 2005

Thanks Don. So can I get my driver signed without my device logo'd ?

Don Burn wrote:
> If you are connecting a physical piece of hardware to the PC you can
get it
> logo'd. Most logo testing is done by the firm developing the device
and
> submitted to Microsoft for review. As part of the agreement they can
ask
> for a loan of one of your devices to perform the testing.
>
> You do not have to logo your device. Of course a lot of firms and
> individuals will not by your device without it being logo'd. The
cost of
> logo'ing is small, and the last I knew a submission to Microsoft with
all
> tests passing was typically appoved in less than 2 business days.
>
>
> --
> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>
>
>
> <r_konjeti@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:1113484516.095238.303370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > when microsoft says "hardware" do they mean hardware on PC. For
> > example, OHCI 1394 card installed in PCI slot or do they mean 1394
> > device connected to PC. My driver is upper level driver that is not
> > involved on PC hardware. It uses microsoft 1394 stack. So there is
no
> > hardware certification required, just device driver should be
signed I
> > guess. I dont understand how will they test my upper level driver
if
> > they dont have my peripheral device. I dont want to microsoft
> > certification for peripheral device because I dont want to go to
> > Microsoft for every minor change.
> >

Don
Thu Apr 14 09:56:22 CDT 2005

No your device has to be logo'd for a signed driver. There is going to be a
package signing so people can download drivers knowing it came from you that
does not involve logo'ing. This package signing (can't remember the
Microsoft term here) will not stop your users getting the "warning unsigned
driver:" messages, or if the administrator so chooses, blocking loading of
your driver all together.



--
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Remove StopSpam from the email to reply



<r_konjeti@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:1113489369.326074.239350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks Don. So can I get my driver signed without my device logo'd ?
>
> Don Burn wrote:
>> If you are connecting a physical piece of hardware to the PC you can
> get it
>> logo'd. Most logo testing is done by the firm developing the device
> and
>> submitted to Microsoft for review. As part of the agreement they can
> ask
>> for a loan of one of your devices to perform the testing.
>>
>> You do not have to logo your device. Of course a lot of firms and
>> individuals will not by your device without it being logo'd. The
> cost of
>> logo'ing is small, and the last I knew a submission to Microsoft with
> all
>> tests passing was typically appoved in less than 2 business days.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
>> Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
>> Remove StopSpam from the email to reply
>>
>>
>>
>> <r_konjeti@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>> news:1113484516.095238.303370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > when microsoft says "hardware" do they mean hardware on PC. For
>> > example, OHCI 1394 card installed in PCI slot or do they mean 1394
>> > device connected to PC. My driver is upper level driver that is not
>> > involved on PC hardware. It uses microsoft 1394 stack. So there is
> no
>> > hardware certification required, just device driver should be
> signed I
>> > guess. I dont understand how will they test my upper level driver
> if
>> > they dont have my peripheral device. I dont want to microsoft
>> > certification for peripheral device because I dont want to go to
>> > Microsoft for every minor change.
>> >
>

r_konjeti
Thu Apr 14 11:04:22 CDT 2005

>>This package signing (can't remember the
>>Microsoft term here) will not stop your users getting the "warning
unsigned
>>driver:" messages, or if the administrator so chooses, blocking
loading of
>>your driver all together.

Sorry, I dont understand here. If "package signing" is not going to
stop warning, what good it does. What is Microsoft "signing" for?

Another point is "warning or admin blocking" are not the only changes
happening as documentation suggests. There is difference in
installation as well. For every new device with same DeviceId(Vendor
and modelName being same), Windows asks for installation. We have to
reinstall "exactly same driver" for exactly same vendor and model. This
is going far beyond than "warning" user. This is arm twisting people to
get certified by Microsoft. After warning and if user accepts and admin
doesnot block, Windows should treat installation same as signed driver.
It is always bugging me if there is something wrong in my installation
or simply because it is unsigned driver. I cant test and see because I
dont have my driver signed. The documentation only talks about Vendor
and model for deviceId, never mentions anything like
per-device-installation for unsigned driver and only-once installation
for signed driver.

There is noway to even simulate signed driver testing because I dont
have signed driver. Or is there a way to simulate and see what
differences are in signed and unsigned driver ? Depending on
documentation doesnot satisfy me because I dont feel it is complete.

r_konjeti
Thu Apr 14 11:08:40 CDT 2005

I appreciate the idea of warning admin who is installing unsigned
driver. But going beyond that, asking to "reinstall" for same model and
vendor doesnot make sense.

Ray
Thu Apr 14 18:36:56 CDT 2005

It happens with signed drivers too, you just don't see it because
there's no message.

BTW, is this a USB device? If so, the real problem is likely to be that
it doesn't have a unique USB serial number.

Anyway, if you're annoyed now, just wait until Longhorn, when AFAIK the
plan is to only *allow* installation of signed drivers (period). Of
course, at the same time, they're relaxing what is meant by "signed" to
include Authenticode signing.

The goal appears to be to keep anonymous virus writers from being able
to install kernel mode drivers. But I'm sure it will be lots of fun
during development :-).

r_konjeti@mailcity.com wrote:
> I appreciate the idea of warning admin who is installing unsigned
> driver. But going beyond that, asking to "reinstall" for same model and
> vendor doesnot make sense.
>

--
../ray\..

r_konjeti
Fri Apr 15 07:24:32 CDT 2005

This is 1394 driver. But even in USB *I think*, having a unique serial
number makes it a target that windows "will" think each device with
same VID and PID need a unique driver(if unsigned) or need a
reinstallation for each device.

I am not talking about message or warning, I am talking to installing
for each device connected to PC.

Ray
Fri Apr 15 12:59:32 CDT 2005

If you've done it right, it's not supposed to for USB devices, but I
know nothing about 1394.

r_konjeti@mailcity.com wrote:
> This is 1394 driver. But even in USB *I think*, having a unique serial
> number makes it a target that windows "will" think each device with
> same VID and PID need a unique driver(if unsigned) or need a
> reinstallation for each device.
>
> I am not talking about message or warning, I am talking to installing
> for each device connected to PC.
>

--
../ray\..