NDISUIO and writing raw packets

I need some advice. I need to be able to write 802.11 packets from the
application layer to the network under Windows CE 4.2. I know that
NDISUIO can be used to do this to some extent. To what extent is this
possible? Can I write a packet that includes the 802.11 header and
have it written to the network unmodified? It's important to have as
much control as possible over fields in the 802.11 header.

If NDISUIO writes don't give this flexibilty, what is the best way to
do this?

Thanks,
Jon

Thomas
Fri Aug 29 16:06:15 CDT 2003

As far as I know on _current_ Windows platforms (including CE) you can only
read/write 802.3 frames using the NDIS API.

You _cannot_ actually read/write native Wi-Fi frames without working
directly with the chipsets or having access to vendor-propritary
information.

Thomas

"Jon" <gronteth56@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:57cef923.0308291239.26a27d2@posting.google.com...
> I need some advice. I need to be able to write 802.11 packets from the
> application layer to the network under Windows CE 4.2. I know that
> NDISUIO can be used to do this to some extent. To what extent is this
> possible? Can I write a packet that includes the 802.11 header and
> have it written to the network unmodified? It's important to have as
> much control as possible over fields in the 802.11 header.
>
> If NDISUIO writes don't give this flexibilty, what is the best way to
> do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon

bburgin
Fri Aug 29 16:11:10 CDT 2003

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Jon,

In general, whatever you pass from the protocol to the miniport makes it to
the "wire" verbatim - except in the present case of wireless drivers.
Wireless miniports emit 802.11 frames on their lower edge, but expose
themselves as 802.3 Ethernet frames on their upper edge (to NDIS and
upper-layer protocols). Therefore, the 802.11 miniport drivers serve as an
abstraction layer translating between 802.3 and 802.11 frames. This issue
will remain a problem until there are native 802.11 miniports.

Bryan S. Burgin
bburgin@microsoft.com

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
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\par Jon,
\par
\par In general, whatever you pass from the protocol to the miniport makes it to the "wire" verbatim - except in the present case of wireless drivers. Wireless miniports emit 802.11 frames on their lower edge, but expose themselves as 802.3 Ethernet frames on their upper edge (to NDIS and upper-layer protocols). Therefore, the 802.11 miniport drivers serve as an abstraction layer translating between 802.3 and 802.11 frames. This issue will remain a problem until there are native 802.11 miniports.
\par
\par Bryan S. Burgin
\par bburgin@microsoft.com
\par
\par This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
\par
\par }
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bburgin
Fri Aug 29 16:45:48 CDT 2003

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Follow-up. You may want tolook at the whitepaper at
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/network/802x/Native80211.mspx on
the future directions for native 802.11.

Bryan S. Burgin
bburgin@microsoft.com

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

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\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Follow-up. You may want tolook at the whitepaper at http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/network/802x/Native80211.mspx on the future directions for native 802.11.
\par
\par Bryan S. Burgin
\par bburgin@microsoft.com
\par
\par This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
\par
\par
\par }
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Stephan
Sun Aug 31 13:44:35 CDT 2003

Interesting! Any hints on *when* native 802.11 support will be
available (NDIS and/or OS version)?

Thanks,
Stephan
---
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:45:48 GMT, bburgin@online.microsoft.com ("Bryan
S. Burgin [MSFT]") wrote:

>Follow-up. You may want tolook at the whitepaper at
>http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/network/802x/Native80211.mspx on
>the future directions for native 802.11.
>
>Bryan S. Burgin
>bburgin@microsoft.com
>
>This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Alireza
Mon Sep 01 02:32:58 CDT 2003

Native 802.11 support is scheduled for Longhorn in NDIS 6.0. If you are
already on NDIS 6.0 beta program (which you should be!) you can ask to be
added to native 802.11 beta program.

-ali

--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Stephan Wolf" <stewo68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jbg4lv4fc0uk0fg7tllbn5bckl100fp0t2@4ax.com...
> Interesting! Any hints on *when* native 802.11 support will be
> available (NDIS and/or OS version)?
>
> Thanks,
> Stephan
> ---
> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:45:48 GMT, bburgin@online.microsoft.com ("Bryan
> S. Burgin [MSFT]") wrote:
>
> >Follow-up. You may want tolook at the whitepaper at
> >http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/network/802x/Native80211.mspx on
> >the future directions for native 802.11.
> >
> >Bryan S. Burgin
> >bburgin@microsoft.com
> >
> >This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

gronteth56
Wed Sep 03 15:35:13 CDT 2003

How do I sign up for the NDIS 6.0 beta program? Does it come with more
documentation on Native 802.11 and the related OIDs?

There are some gaps in the documentation that I've found. Can anyone
help me fill some of them in?

According to this MSDN article:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dncenet/html/tchNative80211SupportInWindowsCENET.asp
Native 802.11 is supported in WinCE .NET 4.2. It talks about how you
can turn your card into an AP and do bridging and other Native 802.11
things. I thought the drivers had to support NDIS 6.0 in order to
support Native 802.11. But most (all?) WinCE 4.2 drivers are NDIS 5.1
aren't they? Can you really do all this in WinCE 4.2?

I read the recommended whitepaper, thanks Bryan. I noticed that it
doesn't talk about the Native 802.11 OIDs. It says they will be talked
about in a future release of the Windows DDK. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but there is no DDK for WinCE. The closest thing to a DDK for WinCE is
the Platform Builder help, correct? I did find a list of OID_DOT11_X
OIDs (and a very brief description of each)in the Platform Builder
help. Are these a part of Native 802.11? Is there more complete
documentation for these OIDs somewhere?

I found a fairly detailed discussion of the OID_802_11_X series of
OIDs in the "IEEE 802.11 Network Adapter Design Guidelines for Windows
XP" document. It does not mention how these OIDs relate to WinCE, as
far as which are required, etc. Is there a similar paper for WinCE?

Thanks for the clarifications.

Jon

"Alireza Dabagh [MS]" <alid@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<ecc5XtFcDHA.2904@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>...
> Native 802.11 support is scheduled for Longhorn in NDIS 6.0. If you are
> already on NDIS 6.0 beta program (which you should be!) you can ask to be
> added to native 802.11 beta program.
>
> -ali
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
> "Stephan Wolf" <stewo68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jbg4lv4fc0uk0fg7tllbn5bckl100fp0t2@4ax.com...
> > Interesting! Any hints on *when* native 802.11 support will be
> > available (NDIS and/or OS version)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Stephan
> > ---
> > On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:45:48 GMT, bburgin@online.microsoft.com ("Bryan
> > S. Burgin [MSFT]") wrote:
> >
> > >Follow-up. You may want tolook at the whitepaper at
> > >http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/network/802x/Native80211.mspx on
> > >the future directions for native 802.11.
> > >
> > >Bryan S. Burgin
> > >bburgin@microsoft.com
> > >
> > >This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.

Thomas
Wed Sep 03 17:03:49 CDT 2003

Curious...

I just cranked up OID Scope for Pocket PC 2003 (Windows CE 4.? - iPAQ h5555)
and checked OID_GEN_MEDIA_SUPPORTED. All it reports is the one media 802.3.
I would interpret this to mean that 802.11 is not yet a "first class" media
that is fully supported by the OS. It may have extra features (described in
the paper you referenced).

If you haven't found OID Scope for Pocket PC 2003 it is at
http://www.rawether.net/embedded/WINCE/downloads.htm. May be of some use in
exploring OIDs.

Thomas F. Divine

"Jon" <gronteth56@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:57cef923.0309031235.6ba0f164@posting.google.com...
> How do I sign up for the NDIS 6.0 beta program? Does it come with more
> documentation on Native 802.11 and the related OIDs?
>
> There are some gaps in the documentation that I've found. Can anyone
> help me fill some of them in?
>
> According to this MSDN article:
>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dncenet/html/tchNative80211SupportInWindowsCENET.asp
> Native 802.11 is supported in WinCE .NET 4.2. It talks about how you
> can turn your card into an AP and do bridging and other Native 802.11
> things. I thought the drivers had to support NDIS 6.0 in order to
> support Native 802.11. But most (all?) WinCE 4.2 drivers are NDIS 5.1
> aren't they? Can you really do all this in WinCE 4.2?
>
> I read the recommended whitepaper, thanks Bryan. I noticed that it
> doesn't talk about the Native 802.11 OIDs. It says they will be talked
> about in a future release of the Windows DDK. Correct me if I'm wrong,
> but there is no DDK for WinCE. The closest thing to a DDK for WinCE is
> the Platform Builder help, correct? I did find a list of OID_DOT11_X
> OIDs (and a very brief description of each)in the Platform Builder
> help. Are these a part of Native 802.11? Is there more complete
> documentation for these OIDs somewhere?
>
> I found a fairly detailed discussion of the OID_802_11_X series of
> OIDs in the "IEEE 802.11 Network Adapter Design Guidelines for Windows
> XP" document. It does not mention how these OIDs relate to WinCE, as
> far as which are required, etc. Is there a similar paper for WinCE?
>
> Thanks for the clarifications.
>
> Jon
>
> "Alireza Dabagh [MS]" <alid@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:<ecc5XtFcDHA.2904@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>...
> > Native 802.11 support is scheduled for Longhorn in NDIS 6.0. If you are
> > already on NDIS 6.0 beta program (which you should be!) you can ask to
be
> > added to native 802.11 beta program.
> >
> > -ali
> >
> > --
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> >
> > "Stephan Wolf" <stewo68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:jbg4lv4fc0uk0fg7tllbn5bckl100fp0t2@4ax.com...
> > > Interesting! Any hints on *when* native 802.11 support will be
> > > available (NDIS and/or OS version)?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Stephan
> > > ---
> > > On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:45:48 GMT, bburgin@online.microsoft.com ("Bryan
> > > S. Burgin [MSFT]") wrote:
> > >
> > > >Follow-up. You may want tolook at the whitepaper at
> > >
>http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/network/802x/Native80211.mspx on
> > > >the future directions for native 802.11.
> > > >
> > > >Bryan S. Burgin
> > > >bburgin@microsoft.com
> > > >
> > > >This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > rights.

bburgin
Thu Sep 04 01:43:00 CDT 2003

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"How do I sign up for the NDIS 6.0 beta program?" -- email
ndis6fb@microsoft.com with a request to be added.

Bryan S. Burgin
bburgin@microsoft.com

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
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\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 "How do I sign up for the NDIS 6.0 beta program?" -- email ndis6fb@microsoft.com with a request to be added.
\par
\par Bryan S. Burgin
\par bburgin@microsoft.com
\par
\par This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
\par }
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