NDIS - asymmetric link speed

Dear NDIS gurus,
Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink speed about 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11 emulated).
How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which link speed the driver should report?
And same question, if the device does throttling and prioritizing - the actual link speed
is different for different payload types.

The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed value...

Thanks,
Pavel

Maxim
Fri Jan 14 04:13:04 CST 2005

> How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver?

Are you sure it relies at all? Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance IIRC is done
without relying on local link speed.

--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

Arkady
Fri Jan 14 05:43:19 CST 2005

Really that do relies , at least in setting TCPWindowSize e.g.
In NT kernel Oses for reported speed >= 100 Mbps it set the size to 64K (
without 1323 opt )
for less - to default 17K ( 17520 )
Arkady

"Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:O0CSKGi#EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver?
>
> Are you sure it relies at all? Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance IIRC is
done
> without relying on local link speed.
>
> --
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> maxim@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
>

Arkady
Fri Jan 14 05:56:06 CST 2005

That behavior described in
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windowsserver2003/technologies/
networking/tcpip03.mspx
and the same autodetermination work for W2K and XP , with correction that
the line of 100 mbps( in the server it has to be more , I didn't check that
there ) enough to change the window size.

Arkady

"Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
news:#akV34i#EHA.1396@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Really that do relies , at least in setting TCPWindowSize e.g.
> In NT kernel Oses for reported speed >= 100 Mbps it set the size to 64K (
> without 1323 opt )
> for less - to default 17K ( 17520 )
> Arkady
>
> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> news:O0CSKGi#EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver?
> >
> > Are you sure it relies at all? Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance IIRC is
> done
> > without relying on local link speed.
> >
> > --
> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > maxim@storagecraft.com
> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >
> >
>
>

Arkady
Fri Jan 14 05:58:24 CST 2005

Pavel !
Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry too
Arkady

"Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Dear NDIS gurus,
> Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink speed about
1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11 emulated).
> How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which link speed
the driver should report?
> And same question, if the device does throttling and prioritizing - the
actual link speed
> is different for different payload types.
>
> The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed value...
>
> Thanks,
> Pavel
>
>
>
>

Arkady
Fri Jan 14 06:54:57 CST 2005

Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not current
up/down.
There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
Arkady

"Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Pavel !
> Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry too
> Arkady
>
> "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > Dear NDIS gurus,
> > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink speed
about
> 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11 emulated).
> > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which link
speed
> the driver should report?
> > And same question, if the device does throttling and prioritizing - the
> actual link speed
> > is different for different payload types.
> >
> > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed value...
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Maxim
Fri Jan 14 09:04:59 CST 2005

I already told once that I observed TCP window sizes > 64KB on a 10Mpbs
local wire (later connected to ADSL router).

I also have huge doubts that there are any TCP stacks in the modern world
who neglect RFC1323 Window Scale. Well-performing downloads are impossible
without it.

--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

"Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
news:%23akV34i%23EHA.1396@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Really that do relies , at least in setting TCPWindowSize e.g.
> In NT kernel Oses for reported speed >= 100 Mbps it set the size to 64K (
> without 1323 opt )
> for less - to default 17K ( 17520 )
> Arkady
>
> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> news:O0CSKGi#EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver?
> >
> > Are you sure it relies at all? Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance IIRC is
> done
> > without relying on local link speed.
> >
> > --
> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > maxim@storagecraft.com
> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >
> >
>
>

Alexander
Fri Jan 14 10:05:18 CST 2005

In some error-correction modes ADSL link layer employs data interleave up to
32 ms (means: data can be delayed by 32 ms in each direction) and it's a
real bane for TCP/IP. Some ADSL routers artificially increase maximum TCP
window size in registry for that reason.

"Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:ehwvQpk%23EHA.3596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I already told once that I observed TCP window sizes > 64KB on a 10Mpbs
> local wire (later connected to ADSL router).
>
> I also have huge doubts that there are any TCP stacks in the modern
> world
> who neglect RFC1323 Window Scale. Well-performing downloads are impossible
> without it.
>
> --
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> maxim@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
> "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> news:%23akV34i%23EHA.1396@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Really that do relies , at least in setting TCPWindowSize e.g.
>> In NT kernel Oses for reported speed >= 100 Mbps it set the size to 64K (
>> without 1323 opt )
>> for less - to default 17K ( 17520 )
>> Arkady
>>
>> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
>> news:O0CSKGi#EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver?
>> >
>> > Are you sure it relies at all? Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance IIRC is
>> done
>> > without relying on local link speed.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
>> > StorageCraft Corporation
>> > maxim@storagecraft.com
>> > http://www.storagecraft.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Maxim
Fri Jan 14 10:36:48 CST 2005

My Windows machine has a 10Mbps ancient 3Com card, 10 years old.
ADSL router is connected to other end.

I go to the site like microsoft.com and download at 200KB/s bandwidth. I
don't remember the RTT off-head, but the ( bandwidth * RTT ) product was by far
more then 64KB.

More so. TCP works only on ends, not on intermediate hardware. So, Windows
can have TCP window sizes > 64KB on 10Mbps card, and employ TCP Window Scale
option on it. QED.

--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

"Alexander Grigoriev" <alegr@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%23COVZLl%23EHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> In some error-correction modes ADSL link layer employs data interleave up to
> 32 ms (means: data can be delayed by 32 ms in each direction) and it's a
> real bane for TCP/IP. Some ADSL routers artificially increase maximum TCP
> window size in registry for that reason.
>
> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> news:ehwvQpk%23EHA.3596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > I already told once that I observed TCP window sizes > 64KB on a 10Mpbs
> > local wire (later connected to ADSL router).
> >
> > I also have huge doubts that there are any TCP stacks in the modern
> > world
> > who neglect RFC1323 Window Scale. Well-performing downloads are impossible
> > without it.
> >
> > --
> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > maxim@storagecraft.com
> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >
> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> > news:%23akV34i%23EHA.1396@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> Really that do relies , at least in setting TCPWindowSize e.g.
> >> In NT kernel Oses for reported speed >= 100 Mbps it set the size to 64K (
> >> without 1323 opt )
> >> for less - to default 17K ( 17520 )
> >> Arkady
> >>
> >> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:O0CSKGi#EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver?
> >> >
> >> > Are you sure it relies at all? Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance IIRC is
> >> done
> >> > without relying on local link speed.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> >> > StorageCraft Corporation
> >> > maxim@storagecraft.com
> >> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Pavel
Fri Jan 14 19:52:32 CST 2005

?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not relevant for me.


"Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not current
> up/down.
> There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
> Arkady
>
> "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > Pavel !
> > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry too
> > Arkady
> >
> > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > Dear NDIS gurus,
> > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink speed
> about
> > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11 emulated).
> > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which link
> speed
> > the driver should report?
> > > And same question, if the device does throttling and prioritizing - the
> > actual link speed
> > > is different for different payload types.
> > >
> > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed value...
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pavel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Pavel
Fri Jan 14 19:56:47 CST 2005

Wait, wait.... does what you wrote mean that
a. If link speed is less than 100 mbps (my case) then TCPIP dynamically adapts to
actual sped in both directions.
b. For best results, need to tweak window size manually ?

--PA


"Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message news:ONbTkcl#EHA.2788@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> My Windows machine has a 10Mbps ancient 3Com card, 10 years old.
> ADSL router is connected to other end.
>
> I go to the site like microsoft.com and download at 200KB/s bandwidth. I
> don't remember the RTT off-head, but the ( bandwidth * RTT ) product was by far
> more then 64KB.
>
> More so. TCP works only on ends, not on intermediate hardware. So, Windows
> can have TCP window sizes > 64KB on 10Mbps card, and employ TCP Window Scale
> option on it. QED.
>
> --
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> maxim@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
> "Alexander Grigoriev" <alegr@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:%23COVZLl%23EHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> > In some error-correction modes ADSL link layer employs data interleave up to
> > 32 ms (means: data can be delayed by 32 ms in each direction) and it's a
> > real bane for TCP/IP. Some ADSL routers artificially increase maximum TCP
> > window size in registry for that reason.
> >
> > "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> > news:ehwvQpk%23EHA.3596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > I already told once that I observed TCP window sizes > 64KB on a 10Mpbs
> > > local wire (later connected to ADSL router).
> > >
> > > I also have huge doubts that there are any TCP stacks in the modern
> > > world
> > > who neglect RFC1323 Window Scale. Well-performing downloads are impossible
> > > without it.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > > StorageCraft Corporation
> > > maxim@storagecraft.com
> > > http://www.storagecraft.com
> > >
> > > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> > > news:%23akV34i%23EHA.1396@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > >> Really that do relies , at least in setting TCPWindowSize e.g.
> > >> In NT kernel Oses for reported speed >= 100 Mbps it set the size to 64K (
> > >> without 1323 opt )
> > >> for less - to default 17K ( 17520 )
> > >> Arkady
> > >>
> > >> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:O0CSKGi#EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > >> > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver?
> > >> >
> > >> > Are you sure it relies at all? Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance IIRC is
> > >> done
> > >> > without relying on local link speed.
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > >> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > >> > maxim@storagecraft.com
> > >> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Alexander
Fri Jan 14 23:47:00 CST 2005

The ADSL vendors may supply a setup application for those routers, to set
TcpWindowSize value in
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters.

"Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:ONbTkcl%23EHA.2788@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> My Windows machine has a 10Mbps ancient 3Com card, 10 years old.
> ADSL router is connected to other end.
>
> I go to the site like microsoft.com and download at 200KB/s bandwidth.
> I
> don't remember the RTT off-head, but the ( bandwidth * RTT ) product was
> by far
> more then 64KB.
>
> More so. TCP works only on ends, not on intermediate hardware. So,
> Windows
> can have TCP window sizes > 64KB on 10Mbps card, and employ TCP Window
> Scale
> option on it. QED.
>
> --
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> maxim@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
> "Alexander Grigoriev" <alegr@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:%23COVZLl%23EHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> In some error-correction modes ADSL link layer employs data interleave up
>> to
>> 32 ms (means: data can be delayed by 32 ms in each direction) and it's a
>> real bane for TCP/IP. Some ADSL routers artificially increase maximum TCP
>> window size in registry for that reason.
>>
>> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
>> news:ehwvQpk%23EHA.3596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> > I already told once that I observed TCP window sizes > 64KB on a
>> > 10Mpbs
>> > local wire (later connected to ADSL router).
>> >
>> > I also have huge doubts that there are any TCP stacks in the modern
>> > world
>> > who neglect RFC1323 Window Scale. Well-performing downloads are
>> > impossible
>> > without it.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
>> > StorageCraft Corporation
>> > maxim@storagecraft.com
>> > http://www.storagecraft.com
>> >
>> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
>> > news:%23akV34i%23EHA.1396@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> >> Really that do relies , at least in setting TCPWindowSize e.g.
>> >> In NT kernel Oses for reported speed >= 100 Mbps it set the size to
>> >> 64K (
>> >> without 1323 opt )
>> >> for less - to default 17K ( 17520 )
>> >> Arkady
>> >>
>> >> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:O0CSKGi#EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> >> > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver?
>> >> >
>> >> > Are you sure it relies at all? Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance IIRC
>> >> > is
>> >> done
>> >> > without relying on local link speed.
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
>> >> > StorageCraft Corporation
>> >> > maxim@storagecraft.com
>> >> > http://www.storagecraft.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Maxim
Sat Jan 15 05:44:13 CST 2005

I have no software from ADSL vendor on my box. No tweaks. The MS's TCP
stack seems to be much more smart then the technotes is speaking about it :)

--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

"Alexander Grigoriev" <alegr@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%23VKZkWs%23EHA.704@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> The ADSL vendors may supply a setup application for those routers, to set
> TcpWindowSize value in
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters.
>
> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> news:ONbTkcl%23EHA.2788@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> > My Windows machine has a 10Mbps ancient 3Com card, 10 years old.
> > ADSL router is connected to other end.
> >
> > I go to the site like microsoft.com and download at 200KB/s bandwidth.
> > I
> > don't remember the RTT off-head, but the ( bandwidth * RTT ) product was
> > by far
> > more then 64KB.
> >
> > More so. TCP works only on ends, not on intermediate hardware. So,
> > Windows
> > can have TCP window sizes > 64KB on 10Mbps card, and employ TCP Window
> > Scale
> > option on it. QED.
> >
> > --
> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > maxim@storagecraft.com
> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >
> > "Alexander Grigoriev" <alegr@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:%23COVZLl%23EHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> >> In some error-correction modes ADSL link layer employs data interleave up
> >> to
> >> 32 ms (means: data can be delayed by 32 ms in each direction) and it's a
> >> real bane for TCP/IP. Some ADSL routers artificially increase maximum TCP
> >> window size in registry for that reason.
> >>
> >> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:ehwvQpk%23EHA.3596@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >> > I already told once that I observed TCP window sizes > 64KB on a
> >> > 10Mpbs
> >> > local wire (later connected to ADSL router).
> >> >
> >> > I also have huge doubts that there are any TCP stacks in the modern
> >> > world
> >> > who neglect RFC1323 Window Scale. Well-performing downloads are
> >> > impossible
> >> > without it.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> >> > StorageCraft Corporation
> >> > maxim@storagecraft.com
> >> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >> >
> >> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> >> > news:%23akV34i%23EHA.1396@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> >> Really that do relies , at least in setting TCPWindowSize e.g.
> >> >> In NT kernel Oses for reported speed >= 100 Mbps it set the size to
> >> >> 64K (
> >> >> without 1323 opt )
> >> >> for less - to default 17K ( 17520 )
> >> >> Arkady
> >> >>
> >> >> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:O0CSKGi#EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> >> > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Are you sure it relies at all? Slow Start/Congestion Avoidance IIRC
> >> >> > is
> >> >> done
> >> >> > without relying on local link speed.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> >> >> > StorageCraft Corporation
> >> >> > maxim@storagecraft.com
> >> >> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Maxim
Sat Jan 15 05:45:14 CST 2005

Alireza already told us that the "full-duplex" mode is a no-op in modern
Windows, since the real deserialized miniports are out here.

--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

"Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
news:%23CSP5Xq%23EHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> ?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
> All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not relevant for
me.
>
>
> "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not current
> > up/down.
> > There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
> > Arkady
> >
> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> > news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > Pavel !
> > > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry too
> > > Arkady
> > >
> > > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> > > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > Dear NDIS gurus,
> > > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink speed
> > about
> > > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> > > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11 emulated).
> > > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which link
> > speed
> > > the driver should report?
> > > > And same question, if the device does throttling and prioritizing -
the
> > > actual link speed
> > > > is different for different payload types.
> > > >
> > > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed value...
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Pavel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Arkady
Sat Jan 15 14:52:11 CST 2005

That set in ndi\params\speedDuplex\enum subtree of your adapter
Arkady

"Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
news:#CSP5Xq#EHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> ?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
> All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not relevant
for me.
>
>
> "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not current
> > up/down.
> > There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
> > Arkady
> >
> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> > news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > Pavel !
> > > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry
too
> > > Arkady
> > >
> > > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> > > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > Dear NDIS gurus,
> > > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink speed
> > about
> > > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> > > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11 emulated).
> > > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which link
> > speed
> > > the driver should report?
> > > > And same question, if the device does throttling and prioritizing -
the
> > > actual link speed
> > > > is different for different payload types.
> > > >
> > > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed
value...
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Pavel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Arkady
Sat Jan 15 15:01:02 CST 2005

You can check that in any modern Os ( including XP SP2 ) : set half-duplex
and you'll see the change in TCPWindowSize by any sniffer ( netmon ,
ethereal... ). Unless Intel still continue to produce serialized drivers :)
Arkady

"Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:#FujTev#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Alireza already told us that the "full-duplex" mode is a no-op in
modern
> Windows, since the real deserialized miniports are out here.
>
> --
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> maxim@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
> "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> news:%23CSP5Xq%23EHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > ?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
> > All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not relevant
for
> me.
> >
> >
> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not current
> > > up/down.
> > > There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
> > > Arkady
> > >
> > > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> > > news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > Pavel !
> > > > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry
too
> > > > Arkady
> > > >
> > > > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Dear NDIS gurus,
> > > > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink
speed
> > > about
> > > > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> > > > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11
emulated).
> > > > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which
link
> > > speed
> > > > the driver should report?
> > > > > And same question, if the device does throttling and
prioritizing -
> the
> > > > actual link speed
> > > > > is different for different payload types.
> > > > >
> > > > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed
value...
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Pavel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Alexander
Sat Jan 15 19:12:14 CST 2005

Full/Half duplex mode of an Ethernet NIC is PHY modes. No relation to the
miniport serialization.

"Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
news:%23FujTev%23EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Alireza already told us that the "full-duplex" mode is a no-op in
> modern
> Windows, since the real deserialized miniports are out here.
>
> --
> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> StorageCraft Corporation
> maxim@storagecraft.com
> http://www.storagecraft.com
>
> "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> news:%23CSP5Xq%23EHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> ?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
>> All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not relevant
>> for
> me.
>>
>>
>> "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> > Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not current
>> > up/down.
>> > There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
>> > Arkady
>> >
>> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
>> > news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> > > Pavel !
>> > > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry
>> > > too
>> > > Arkady
>> > >
>> > > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> > > > Dear NDIS gurus,
>> > > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink
>> > > > speed
>> > about
>> > > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
>> > > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11 emulated).
>> > > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which link
>> > speed
>> > > the driver should report?
>> > > > And same question, if the device does throttling and
>> > > > prioritizing -
> the
>> > > actual link speed
>> > > > is different for different payload types.
>> > > >
>> > > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed
>> > > > value...
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > > Pavel
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

pavel_a
Sun Jan 16 10:31:01 CST 2005

"Alexander Grigoriev" wrote:
> Full/Half duplex mode of an Ethernet NIC is PHY modes. No relation to the
> miniport serialization.

Yep. SpeedDuplex is the PHY mode.

--PA

> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> news:%23FujTev%23EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > Alireza already told us that the "full-duplex" mode is a no-op in
> > modern
> > Windows, since the real deserialized miniports are out here.
> >
> > --
> > Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> > StorageCraft Corporation
> > maxim@storagecraft.com
> > http://www.storagecraft.com
> >
> > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> > news:%23CSP5Xq%23EHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >> ?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
> >> All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not relevant
> >> for
> > me.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> > news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >> > Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not current
> >> > up/down.
> >> > There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
> >> > Arkady
> >> >
> >> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> >> > news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> >> > > Pavel !
> >> > > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry
> >> > > too
> >> > > Arkady
> >> > >
> >> > > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> >> > > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> >> > > > Dear NDIS gurus,
> >> > > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink
> >> > > > speed
> >> > about
> >> > > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> >> > > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11 emulated).
> >> > > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which link
> >> > speed
> >> > > the driver should report?
> >> > > > And same question, if the device does throttling and
> >> > > > prioritizing -
> > the
> >> > > actual link speed
> >> > > > is different for different payload types.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed
> >> > > > value...
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > Pavel
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>

Pavel
Mon Jan 17 16:58:37 CST 2005

No, this was not _my_ adapter yet... you know :)
And my adapter won't have this param because it has very little common with ethernet.
Maybe it should be CoNDIS, then it will naturally have different tx/rx link rates.
But I have no experience with WAN, would like to keep it simple.
--

"Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message news:eSXoDQ0#EHA.1264@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> That set in ndi\params\speedDuplex\enum subtree of your adapter
> Arkady
>
> "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> news:#CSP5Xq#EHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > ?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
> > All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not relevant
> for me.
> >
> >
> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not current
> > > up/down.
> > > There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
> > > Arkady
> > >
> > > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> > > news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > Pavel !
> > > > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry
> too
> > > > Arkady
> > > >
> > > > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Dear NDIS gurus,
> > > > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink speed
> > > about
> > > > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> > > > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11 emulated).
> > > > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which link
> > > speed
> > > > the driver should report?
> > > > > And same question, if the device does throttling and prioritizing -
> the
> > > > actual link speed
> > > > > is different for different payload types.
> > > > >
> > > > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed
> value...
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Pavel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Arkady
Tue Jan 18 03:22:35 CST 2005

Sure I know about your specific one , and have no answer for your case :( ,
Obviously I wrote about wired ethernet NIC.
Arkady


"Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
news:eLhLiiO$EHA.3820@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> No, this was not _my_ adapter yet... you know :)
> And my adapter won't have this param because it has very little common
with ethernet.
> Maybe it should be CoNDIS, then it will naturally have different tx/rx
link rates.
> But I have no experience with WAN, would like to keep it simple.
> --
>
> "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
news:eSXoDQ0#EHA.1264@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > That set in ndi\params\speedDuplex\enum subtree of your adapter
> > Arkady
> >
> > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> > news:#CSP5Xq#EHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > ?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
> > > All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not
relevant
> > for me.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> > news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not
current
> > > > up/down.
> > > > There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
> > > > Arkady
> > > >
> > > > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> > > > news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Pavel !
> > > > > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in
registry
> > too
> > > > > Arkady
> > > > >
> > > > > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > Dear NDIS gurus,
> > > > > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink
speed
> > > > about
> > > > > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> > > > > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11
emulated).
> > > > > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which
link
> > > > speed
> > > > > the driver should report?
> > > > > > And same question, if the device does throttling and
prioritizing -
> > the
> > > > > actual link speed
> > > > > > is different for different payload types.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed
> > value...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Pavel
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Maxim
Tue Jan 18 05:11:30 CST 2005

> Obviously I wrote about wired ethernet NIC.

Old 10Mbps wired Ethernet NIC can easily use window scale and have window sizes
of > 64KB in some cases.

--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

Alireza
Tue Jan 18 18:21:50 CST 2005

TCP/IP has no way of knowing that duplex has changed (not today). If you
change any advanced property of a NIC, you will cause the NIC to get halted
and restarted again in which case all TCP connections will be lost. The
change that you in TCP window size might be more related to reestablishing
the connection than anything else.
Even if you could change the effective link speed of the network without
restarting the NIC, (unplug from a 100meg switch, plug to a 10 Meg switch)
and you noticed a change in TCP window size, you can not assume that TCP
window size change is due to stack dynamically (=after the bind process)
"directly" monitoring the reported link speed from the NIC. Any "dynamic"
changes here -could- be the result of the self regulating algorithm in the
stack more than anything else.

NDIS 6.0 will support asymmetric link speed.By then, hopefully how link
speeds will be used for what purpose (routing table metrics, TCP initial
window size/connection time out determination, etc.) will be documented
somewhere.

-ali

--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
news:exXT%23U0%23EHA.2596@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> You can check that in any modern Os ( including XP SP2 ) : set half-duplex
> and you'll see the change in TCPWindowSize by any sniffer ( netmon ,
> ethereal... ). Unless Intel still continue to produce serialized drivers
> :)
> Arkady
>
> "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> news:#FujTev#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> Alireza already told us that the "full-duplex" mode is a no-op in
> modern
>> Windows, since the real deserialized miniports are out here.
>>
>> --
>> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
>> StorageCraft Corporation
>> maxim@storagecraft.com
>> http://www.storagecraft.com
>>
>> "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23CSP5Xq%23EHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> > ?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
>> > All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not
>> > relevant
> for
>> me.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
>> news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> > > Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not current
>> > > up/down.
>> > > There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
>> > > Arkady
>> > >
>> > > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
>> > > news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> > > > Pavel !
>> > > > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in registry
> too
>> > > > Arkady
>> > > >
>> > > > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
>> > > > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> > > > > Dear NDIS gurus,
>> > > > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink
> speed
>> > > about
>> > > > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
>> > > > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11
> emulated).
>> > > > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which
> link
>> > > speed
>> > > > the driver should report?
>> > > > > And same question, if the device does throttling and
> prioritizing -
>> the
>> > > > actual link speed
>> > > > > is different for different payload types.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed
> value...
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > > Pavel
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Arkady
Wed Jan 19 05:11:07 CST 2005

Thanks, Ali !
That really was I wrote about : the NIC halted after reset to half-duplex
and restarted. Then program ( the same ) send the data ( the same ) with
TCPWindowSize set to 17K ( start size ) instead of 64K ( start size too )
in full-duplex.
Arkady

"Alireza Dabagh [MS]" <alid@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Ocfzhzb$EHA.3416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> TCP/IP has no way of knowing that duplex has changed (not today). If you
> change any advanced property of a NIC, you will cause the NIC to get
halted
> and restarted again in which case all TCP connections will be lost. The
> change that you in TCP window size might be more related to reestablishing
> the connection than anything else.
> Even if you could change the effective link speed of the network without
> restarting the NIC, (unplug from a 100meg switch, plug to a 10 Meg switch)
> and you noticed a change in TCP window size, you can not assume that TCP
> window size change is due to stack dynamically (=after the bind process)
> "directly" monitoring the reported link speed from the NIC. Any "dynamic"
> changes here -could- be the result of the self regulating algorithm in the
> stack more than anything else.
>
> NDIS 6.0 will support asymmetric link speed.By then, hopefully how link
> speeds will be used for what purpose (routing table metrics, TCP initial
> window size/connection time out determination, etc.) will be documented
> somewhere.
>
> -ali
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
>
> "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> news:exXT%23U0%23EHA.2596@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > You can check that in any modern Os ( including XP SP2 ) : set
half-duplex
> > and you'll see the change in TCPWindowSize by any sniffer ( netmon ,
> > ethereal... ). Unless Intel still continue to produce serialized drivers
> > :)
> > Arkady
> >
> > "Maxim S. Shatskih" <maxim@storagecraft.com> wrote in message
> > news:#FujTev#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> >> Alireza already told us that the "full-duplex" mode is a no-op in
> > modern
> >> Windows, since the real deserialized miniports are out here.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
> >> StorageCraft Corporation
> >> maxim@storagecraft.com
> >> http://www.storagecraft.com
> >>
> >> "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> >> news:%23CSP5Xq%23EHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >> > ?? Where that duplex mode is set in the registry?
> >> > All device specific options like duplex, media type etc are not
> >> > relevant
> > for
> >> me.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> >> news:umET6gj#EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >> > > Forgot to mention. That you have to take radio/line speed not
current
> >> > > up/down.
> >> > > There are a lot for 802.11 for sure
> >> > > Arkady
> >> > >
> >> > > "Arkady Frenkel" <arkadyf@hotmailxdotxcom> wrote in message
> >> > > news:OsyISBj#EHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> >> > > > Pavel !
> >> > > > Be aware that speed changed due to duplex mode set from/in
registry
> > too
> >> > > > Arkady
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "Pavel A." <pavel_a@NOwritemeNO.com> wrote in message
> >> > > > news:eq1tQre#EHA.3708@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> >> > > > > Dear NDIS gurus,
> >> > > > > Now I have adapter with asymmetric send/receive speed ( uplink
> > speed
> >> > > about
> >> > > > 1/3... 1/4 of downlink).
> >> > > > > The media type is ethernet (generic or, possibly, 802.11
> > emulated).
> >> > > > > How TCPIP relies on link speed value reported by driver? which
> > link
> >> > > speed
> >> > > > the driver should report?
> >> > > > > And same question, if the device does throttling and
> > prioritizing -
> >> the
> >> > > > actual link speed
> >> > > > > is different for different payload types.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > The marketing, sure enough, wants to display the biggest speed
> > value...
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > > Pavel
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>