Hi,

i have a situation here which is really true. I have a
old laptop, running windows 2000 professional
and there is no space left for the DDK from Microsoft.
I want to write and test some (simple, monolithic)
drivers, targeting 2000/XP/Vista which handle a
special device over USB. So the situation is that
i dont have a lot of space for ddk on my machine
and i am looking for a way to write a driver, compile
it into a native image and all this WITHOUT the
MS DDK. Is there such a way, a minimal package
of compilers, headers, not bigger than 200 MB?
I already have livekd and WinDbg here, but no compiler
so far and no environment. The environment should
be as small as possible and the compiler should
be capable of inline assembly. Is something like this
available somewhere?


I am not kidding, i really have no space left
here on the machine. This may sound funny
but this is really the situation.

Regards

Kerem


--
-----------------------
Beste Grüsse / Best regards / Votre bien devoue
Kerem Gümrükcü
Microsoft Live Space: http://kerem-g.spaces.live.com/
Latest Open-Source Projects: http://entwicklung.junetz.de
-----------------------
"This reply is provided as is, without warranty express or implied."

Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by Maxim

Maxim
Sat May 03 02:18:10 CDT 2008

Install only 1 WDK build env, without documentation (available online) and
samples. How many MBs will it occupy?

--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com

"Kerem Gümrükcü" <kareem114@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eymZ8cLrIHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> i have a situation here which is really true. I have a
> old laptop, running windows 2000 professional
> and there is no space left for the DDK from Microsoft.
> I want to write and test some (simple, monolithic)
> drivers, targeting 2000/XP/Vista which handle a
> special device over USB. So the situation is that
> i dont have a lot of space for ddk on my machine
> and i am looking for a way to write a driver, compile
> it into a native image and all this WITHOUT the
> MS DDK. Is there such a way, a minimal package
> of compilers, headers, not bigger than 200 MB?
> I already have livekd and WinDbg here, but no compiler
> so far and no environment. The environment should
> be as small as possible and the compiler should
> be capable of inline assembly. Is something like this
> available somewhere?
>
>
> I am not kidding, i really have no space left
> here on the machine. This may sound funny
> but this is really the situation.
>
> Regards
>
> Kerem
>
>
> --
> -----------------------
> Beste Grüsse / Best regards / Votre bien devoue
> Kerem Gümrükcü
> Microsoft Live Space: http://kerem-g.spaces.live.com/
> Latest Open-Source Projects: http://entwicklung.junetz.de
> -----------------------
> "This reply is provided as is, without warranty express or implied."
>
>
>


Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by Pavel

Pavel
Sat May 03 13:24:34 CDT 2008

?? Kerem are you writing from a jail in Turkey? :)

Unfortunatley Maxim is too optimistic.
Only for bin, inc and lib directories of WDK 6000 you'll need > 900 MB
- this is uncompressed and for all architectures.
So maybe you need to copy ony the includes and libs needed for your project
from the full setup of WDK.

Another option: connect an external drive. Your machine has USB.

--PA

"Kerem Gümrükcü" <kareem114@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eymZ8cLrIHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> i have a situation here which is really true. I have a
> old laptop, running windows 2000 professional
> and there is no space left for the DDK from Microsoft.
> I want to write and test some (simple, monolithic)
> drivers, targeting 2000/XP/Vista which handle a
> special device over USB. So the situation is that
> i dont have a lot of space for ddk on my machine
> and i am looking for a way to write a driver, compile
> it into a native image and all this WITHOUT the
> MS DDK. Is there such a way, a minimal package
> of compilers, headers, not bigger than 200 MB?
> I already have livekd and WinDbg here, but no compiler
> so far and no environment. The environment should
> be as small as possible and the compiler should
> be capable of inline assembly. Is something like this
> available somewhere?
>
>
> I am not kidding, i really have no space left
> here on the machine. This may sound funny
> but this is really the situation.
>
> Regards
>
> Kerem
>
>
> --
> -----------------------
> Beste Grüsse / Best regards / Votre bien devoue
> Kerem Gümrükcü
> Microsoft Live Space: http://kerem-g.spaces.live.com/
> Latest Open-Source Projects: http://entwicklung.junetz.de
> -----------------------
> "This reply is provided as is, without warranty express or implied."
>
>
>

Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by Kerem

Kerem
Sat May 03 13:54:58 CDT 2008

Hi Pavel,

>?? Kerem are you writing from a jail in Turkey? :)

no, i am sure even they have Vista there now. :-D
No, i am a Developer in Germany, currently an
"inmate" in a company where the Laptops are
still W2K and other machines already XP or Vista BE.
The Laptops are very old, especially on the area
where i work at the moment. The question was, whether
this is possible or not. Sure i can copy anything
from the ddk and "pack" my own set of compilers and
tools. But as the question implied, i was looking for some
already available minimal package i could possibly use.
Well, then i have to pack everything on a big 2GB USB
stick and work from there, as you told me. The external
drives even dont work on the old USB buses on the
laptops, it must be 1.0 or 1.1 USB, because you have to
power the drives from an external current supply...and
i dont want this. The portable usb devices (sticks) work.
So i have to depend on them,...

Does the DDK "pack" depend on any registry entries, in
the case i install everything on the stick on another system
and plug it into the laptop on another system? Will it work?


Regards

Kerem


--
--
-----------------------
Beste Grüsse / Best regards / Votre bien devoue
Kerem Gümrükcü
Microsoft Live Space: http://kerem-g.spaces.live.com/
Latest Open-Source Projects: http://entwicklung.junetz.de
-----------------------
"This reply is provided as is, without warranty express or implied."



Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by Pavel

Pavel
Sat May 03 14:14:44 CDT 2008

"Kerem Gümrükcü" <kareem114@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ou0co9UrIHA.4952@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
.....
> Well, then i have to pack everything on a big 2GB USB
> stick and work from there, as you told me. The external
> drives even dont work on the old USB buses on the
> laptops, it must be 1.0 or 1.1 USB, because you have to
> power the drives from an external current supply...and
> i dont want this. The portable usb devices (sticks) work.
> So i have to depend on them,...

USB 1.1 is very slow. Get Cardbus to USB 2.0 adapter, if you can.

> Does the DDK "pack" depend on any registry entries, in
> the case i install everything on the stick on another system
> and plug it into the laptop on another system? Will it work?

AFAIK no. Just delete everything you don't need (Itanium, x64 stuff, src
samples...)
Use NTFS compression on .h and .lib files ...

--PA



Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by Maxim

Maxim
Sat May 03 14:36:04 CDT 2008

> > Does the DDK "pack" depend on any registry entries, in
> > the case i install everything on the stick on another system
> > and plug it into the laptop on another system? Will it work?
>
> AFAIK no.

+1

I have a 6-OS testing machine and WDK installed to 1 of the OSes.

I did the build from another OS by opening the other OS's Start Menu shortcut.

The result was the same as in the OS where WDK was installed.

--
Maxim Shatskih, Windows DDK MVP
StorageCraft Corporation
maxim@storagecraft.com
http://www.storagecraft.com


Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by David

David
Sat May 03 19:00:01 CDT 2008

Install the WDK to a system where it will fit. Then, copy the entire
directory (WinDDK\6001.18000) to another location. Delete the debug, help,
redist, & src directories. You can then go into the bin subdirectory and
delete the amd64, ia64, catalog (?), SelfSign, w2k, wppconfig, bin\amd64,
bin\ia64, lib\atl, lib\mfc, lib\w2k, lib\wdf (?), tools, inc\atl21,
inc\atl30, inc\mfc42, and any others you don't need for your project. You
can view the shortcuts installed by the WDK installer and use the same
parameters in a batch file to call the appropriate build environment. You
also need to pay attention to the startup directory in those shortcuts.
Remember 'pushd .' and 'popd' are very useful to permit you to switch to the
WDK directory, call setenv, and then return to the source directory. You
can use 'set curdir=%CD%' to obtain the current directory in an environment
variable. Here is a sample that uses Mark Roddy's ddkbuild to do the work.
It requires a different environment variable to be set depending upon the
WDK/OS requirement, but one project will usually only be built with one
WDK/DDK. Keeping the WDK relative to your current sources allows it to be
moved from drive to drive and even different subdirectories and levels
within them.


@echo off
echo Executing: %0 %*
date /t
time /t
pushd .
rem
rem Add any setup or environment variables you need.
rem Look at the cm directory to see what is needed.
rem
setlocal
set WLHBASE=
cd ..\..\..\..\..\tools\wdk6000
set WLHBASE=%CD%
cd
rem
rem Pop back to our original directory
rem
popd
set BROWSER_INFO=true
call ddkbuild.bat %*


"Kerem Gümrükcü" <kareem114@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ou0co9UrIHA.4952@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Hi Pavel,
>
>>?? Kerem are you writing from a jail in Turkey? :)
>
> no, i am sure even they have Vista there now. :-D
> No, i am a Developer in Germany, currently an
> "inmate" in a company where the Laptops are
> still W2K and other machines already XP or Vista BE.
> The Laptops are very old, especially on the area
> where i work at the moment. The question was, whether
> this is possible or not. Sure i can copy anything
> from the ddk and "pack" my own set of compilers and
> tools. But as the question implied, i was looking for some
> already available minimal package i could possibly use.
> Well, then i have to pack everything on a big 2GB USB
> stick and work from there, as you told me. The external
> drives even dont work on the old USB buses on the
> laptops, it must be 1.0 or 1.1 USB, because you have to
> power the drives from an external current supply...and
> i dont want this. The portable usb devices (sticks) work.
> So i have to depend on them,...
>
> Does the DDK "pack" depend on any registry entries, in
> the case i install everything on the stick on another system
> and plug it into the laptop on another system? Will it work?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Kerem
>
>
> --
> --
> -----------------------
> Beste Grüsse / Best regards / Votre bien devoue
> Kerem Gümrükcü
> Microsoft Live Space: http://kerem-g.spaces.live.com/
> Latest Open-Source Projects: http://entwicklung.junetz.de
> -----------------------
> "This reply is provided as is, without warranty express or implied."
>
>



@ALL Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by Kerem

Kerem
Sun May 04 20:21:34 CDT 2008

Hi,

thank you for all suggestions and tips. I will inform
you, which was the best way to solve this and
what did and also didnt work,...


Regards

Kerem

--
-----------------------
Beste Grüsse / Best regards / Votre bien devoue
Kerem Gümrükcü
Microsoft Live Space: http://kerem-g.spaces.live.com/
Latest Open-Source Projects: http://entwicklung.junetz.de
-----------------------
"This reply is provided as is, without warranty express or implied."



Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by Gary

Gary
Mon May 05 10:42:35 CDT 2008

This is not funny it's actually pathetic. First, to ask the question it
obviously means you've done very little driver development ... else you
would know you need to ask your bosses if they are kidding. The situation
you describe is intolerable, and speaks more to the nature of company run by
a bunch of bean counters than a company seriously considering kernel level
development. Frankly, it pops a red flag for me that tells me to be sure to
avoid products from this company.

You're targeting Vista ... you need the WDK. Period. If you can't put the
WDK, and the other tools you need, on the machine you have been given, then
you need another laptop. Period. A new laptop that can and will do Vista
development can be had for $600. The time it will cost you to ATTEMPT to
maintain, let alone develope so much as an automatic butt wiper with the
peice of crap you currently have will far exceed the cost of a new machine.
Basically it's called the cost of doing business, and if they can't afford
the cost, then perhaps they need to find another business.

That's pointed at business development. If you are a student then get rid of
the crap you have on the laptop that is not needed for software development.
Please don't tell me there is no crap on the laptop. Of course there is.
It's over 4 years old. You simply have to set the priorities and say to
yourself, "No, I really don't need the 20 gigs of Beer Bong Blowout from
last years spring break contest."

Or your entire question is posed as a factious attempt to waste the forums
time. In which case I can only posit "Yes Virginia, there really is such a
thing as a stupid question".

--
The personal opinion of
Gary G. Little


"Kerem Gümrükcü" <kareem114@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eymZ8cLrIHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> i have a situation here which is really true. I have a
> old laptop, running windows 2000 professional
> and there is no space left for the DDK from Microsoft.
> I want to write and test some (simple, monolithic)
> drivers, targeting 2000/XP/Vista which handle a
> special device over USB. So the situation is that
> i dont have a lot of space for ddk on my machine
> and i am looking for a way to write a driver, compile
> it into a native image and all this WITHOUT the
> MS DDK. Is there such a way, a minimal package
> of compilers, headers, not bigger than 200 MB?
> I already have livekd and WinDbg here, but no compiler
> so far and no environment. The environment should
> be as small as possible and the compiler should
> be capable of inline assembly. Is something like this
> available somewhere?
>
>
> I am not kidding, i really have no space left
> here on the machine. This may sound funny
> but this is really the situation.
>
> Regards
>
> Kerem
>
>
> --
> -----------------------
> Beste Grüsse / Best regards / Votre bien devoue
> Kerem Gümrükcü
> Microsoft Live Space: http://kerem-g.spaces.live.com/
> Latest Open-Source Projects: http://entwicklung.junetz.de
> -----------------------
> "This reply is provided as is, without warranty express or implied."
>
>
>



Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by Kerem

Kerem
Mon May 05 14:17:06 CDT 2008

Hi Gary,


>This is not funny it's actually pathetic. First, to ask the question it
>obviously means you've done very little driver development ...

Yes you are right, compared to my usermode experience, over
15 Years of development i did a little on Kernel Space this is true!
I never said, that our company is doing professional kernel code
or software. Its a part of our internals. We dont develop software
professionally. I am part of a software development team,...thats all,..


>else you
>would know you need to ask your bosses if they are kidding. The situation
>you describe is intolerable, and speaks more to the nature of company run
by
>a bunch of bean counters than a company seriously considering kernel level
>development. Frankly, it pops a red flag for me that tells me to be sure to
>avoid products from this company.

It is for a special Device a Fellow developed for controlling some
special hardware. Now it has to be connected to a windows system.
SFU is no option for us, or running some virtualization.


>You're targeting Vista ... you need the WDK. Period. If you can't put the
>WDK, and the other tools you need, on the machine you have been given,
then
>you need another laptop. Period. A new laptop that can and will do Vista
>development can be had for $600. The time it will cost you to ATTEMPT to
>maintain, let alone develope so much as an automatic butt wiper with the
>peice of crap you currently have will far exceed the cost of a new machine.

I dont know what to say here. Only the Machines i work at this moment
are still old and run W2K, the rest of the company runs already XP and
Vista.
The drivers that have been written for the device are for Linux Kernel and
not for Windows. The device was running connected to a black box.

>Basically it's called the cost of doing business, and if they can't afford
>the cost, then perhaps they need to find another business.

Thats easy to say,....find another business,...

>That's pointed at business development. If you are a student then get rid
of
>the crap you have on the laptop that is not needed for software
development.

Once i was (years ago), but now i am not any more. I work mainly as
a .NET and C++ developer, touching very little Kernel Mode at work.

>Please don't tell me there is no crap on the laptop.

Only a lot of development environments for different
languages and targets, including MSDN and other docs.

>Of course there is.

There is always,...

>It's over 4 years old. You simply have to set the priorities and say to
>yourself, "No, I really don't need the 20 gigs of Beer Bong Blowout from
>last years spring break contest."
:-D

>Or your entire question is posed as a factious attempt to waste the forums
>time. In which case I can only posit "Yes Virginia, there really is such a
>thing as a stupid question".

No, it was a serious Question and i got all answers i needed, including
you advice, which some people could consider "rude", but in my case
i appreciate any suggestion always, Even if this could be a waste of
time, so let me ask you that sarcastic question: Why did you give me
such a long and detailed answer,... just to tell that i am a stupid guy,
working for a stupid, poor company wasting others time and know a s***
abaut development. The answers given here are maybe usefull for someone
else some time some day, as answers of any kind of information are always.

Thanks for your advice, i am really serious,...

Regards

Kerem


--
-----------------------
Beste Grüsse / Best regards / Votre bien devoue
Kerem Gümrükcü
Microsoft Live Space: http://kerem-g.spaces.live.com/
Latest Open-Source Projects: http://entwicklung.junetz.de
-----------------------
"This reply is provided as is, without warranty express or implied."



Re: Generating a driver without DDK,... by Eliyas

Eliyas
Tue May 06 19:49:04 CDT 2008

Response like this usually turns into bashing game but I really liked the
way you turned Gary's (contributing member of this forum for a long time)
criticism to be constructive. Good job!

-Eliyas


"Kerem Gümrükcü" <kareem114@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eSeybTurIHA.3716@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Hi Gary,
>
>
>>This is not funny it's actually pathetic. First, to ask the question it
>>obviously means you've done very little driver development ...
>
> Yes you are right, compared to my usermode experience, over
> 15 Years of development i did a little on Kernel Space this is true!
> I never said, that our company is doing professional kernel code
> or software. Its a part of our internals. We dont develop software
> professionally. I am part of a software development team,...thats all,..
>
>
>>else you
>>would know you need to ask your bosses if they are kidding. The situation
>>you describe is intolerable, and speaks more to the nature of company run
> by
>>a bunch of bean counters than a company seriously considering kernel level
>>development. Frankly, it pops a red flag for me that tells me to be sure
>>to
>>avoid products from this company.
>
> It is for a special Device a Fellow developed for controlling some
> special hardware. Now it has to be connected to a windows system.
> SFU is no option for us, or running some virtualization.
>
>
>>You're targeting Vista ... you need the WDK. Period. If you can't put the
>>WDK, and the other tools you need, on the machine you have been given,
> then
>>you need another laptop. Period. A new laptop that can and will do Vista
>>development can be had for $600. The time it will cost you to ATTEMPT to
>>maintain, let alone develope so much as an automatic butt wiper with the
>>peice of crap you currently have will far exceed the cost of a new
>>machine.
>
> I dont know what to say here. Only the Machines i work at this moment
> are still old and run W2K, the rest of the company runs already XP and
> Vista.
> The drivers that have been written for the device are for Linux Kernel and
> not for Windows. The device was running connected to a black box.
>
>>Basically it's called the cost of doing business, and if they can't afford
>>the cost, then perhaps they need to find another business.
>
> Thats easy to say,....find another business,...
>
>>That's pointed at business development. If you are a student then get rid
> of
>>the crap you have on the laptop that is not needed for software
> development.
>
> Once i was (years ago), but now i am not any more. I work mainly as
> a .NET and C++ developer, touching very little Kernel Mode at work.
>
>>Please don't tell me there is no crap on the laptop.
>
> Only a lot of development environments for different
> languages and targets, including MSDN and other docs.
>
>>Of course there is.
>
> There is always,...
>
>>It's over 4 years old. You simply have to set the priorities and say to
>>yourself, "No, I really don't need the 20 gigs of Beer Bong Blowout from
>>last years spring break contest."
> :-D
>
>>Or your entire question is posed as a factious attempt to waste the forums
>>time. In which case I can only posit "Yes Virginia, there really is such a
>>thing as a stupid question".
>
> No, it was a serious Question and i got all answers i needed, including
> you advice, which some people could consider "rude", but in my case
> i appreciate any suggestion always, Even if this could be a waste of
> time, so let me ask you that sarcastic question: Why did you give me
> such a long and detailed answer,... just to tell that i am a stupid guy,
> working for a stupid, poor company wasting others time and know a s***
> abaut development. The answers given here are maybe usefull for someone
> else some time some day, as answers of any kind of information are always.
>
> Thanks for your advice, i am really serious,...
>
> Regards
>
> Kerem
>
>
> --
> -----------------------
> Beste Grüsse / Best regards / Votre bien devoue
> Kerem Gümrükcü
> Microsoft Live Space: http://kerem-g.spaces.live.com/
> Latest Open-Source Projects: http://entwicklung.junetz.de
> -----------------------
> "This reply is provided as is, without warranty express or implied."
>
>