"Settings" and KB unavailable when Outlook is running (CRM 3.0)

Does anyone else find it rather ridiculous that the options available in the
CRM 3.0 web client completely change when Outlook is running? Evidently this
is "by design" but was a very poor design choice in my opinion. Users like
to have a consistent experience, and when options start disappearing it
confuses people.

It also makes it very difficult to build a Knowledge Base and set up users,
considering most people will probably be copying and pasting text from email
messages to build the KB. The way it's set up now, you would have to find
the email message you want, copy what you need into Notepad, close Outlook,
login to the CRM web client, create a new KB article, paste what you need
from Notepad, save the new KB article, load Outlook again, find the next
email message you need, copy and paste into Notepad again, close Outlook
again, log back into CRM (or do a deep refresh of the page), make a new KB
article, paste what you need from Notepad again, save.... It makes an
already tedious task even that much worse. Same for users. Unless you
personally know everyone being set up, you'll most likely either be setting
up users based on an email message you have received, or using a global
address book. Again, copy what you need, paste into Notepad, close Outlook,
open the user record, paste from Notepad, save, re-open Outlook... Or the
alternative would be to print out everything you need beforehand, then type
it all in. Also not a good approach, as it would take a lot longer and
introduce typographical errors.

I really see no benefit to changing the options available in the web client
based on whether or not the user has Outlook running. What is the point of
limiting features in the web client to only the features available through
the Outlook client? If what I wanted to do was available in the Outlook
client, I would do it in the Outlook client. The only reason I would be
using the web client is because the feature I want to use is not available in
the Outlook client. Since this is evidently by design, I want the ability to
disable this "feature".

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/Businesssolutions/Community/NewsGroups/dgbrowser/en-us/default.mspx?mid=7f135101-4716-462d-ba20-310370a25fb8&dg=microsoft.public.crm

Jon
Thu Dec 08 10:52:28 CST 2005

I think I have a DNS-based workaround for this. Our Outlook clients point
to the "actual" CRM server name (the "A" dns record). I set up a "CRM"
CNAME record in DNS, so that an internal web user can just type CRM in the
IE bar and it opens up. Well, it seems to turn out that using the alias in
IE avoids whatever checking CRM does with the Outlook client, and I have
access to the settings and KB with Outlook open. Not sure if this has any
unintended side-effects or not, but I haven't noticed any.

Hope this helps,
Jon

"Joel Corra" <JoelCorra@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7F135101-4716-462D-BA20-310370A25FB8@microsoft.com...
> Does anyone else find it rather ridiculous that the options available in
> the
> CRM 3.0 web client completely change when Outlook is running? Evidently
> this
> is "by design" but was a very poor design choice in my opinion. Users
> like
> to have a consistent experience, and when options start disappearing it
> confuses people.
>
> It also makes it very difficult to build a Knowledge Base and set up
> users,
> considering most people will probably be copying and pasting text from
> email
> messages to build the KB. The way it's set up now, you would have to find
> the email message you want, copy what you need into Notepad, close
> Outlook,
> login to the CRM web client, create a new KB article, paste what you need
> from Notepad, save the new KB article, load Outlook again, find the next
> email message you need, copy and paste into Notepad again, close Outlook
> again, log back into CRM (or do a deep refresh of the page), make a new KB
> article, paste what you need from Notepad again, save.... It makes an
> already tedious task even that much worse. Same for users. Unless you
> personally know everyone being set up, you'll most likely either be
> setting
> up users based on an email message you have received, or using a global
> address book. Again, copy what you need, paste into Notepad, close
> Outlook,
> open the user record, paste from Notepad, save, re-open Outlook... Or the
> alternative would be to print out everything you need beforehand, then
> type
> it all in. Also not a good approach, as it would take a lot longer and
> introduce typographical errors.
>
> I really see no benefit to changing the options available in the web
> client
> based on whether or not the user has Outlook running. What is the point
> of
> limiting features in the web client to only the features available through
> the Outlook client? If what I wanted to do was available in the Outlook
> client, I would do it in the Outlook client. The only reason I would be
> using the web client is because the feature I want to use is not available
> in
> the Outlook client. Since this is evidently by design, I want the ability
> to
> disable this "feature".
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/Businesssolutions/Community/NewsGroups/dgbrowser/en-us/default.mspx?mid=7f135101-4716-462d-ba20-310370a25fb8&dg=microsoft.public.crm

JoelCorra
Thu Dec 08 13:16:04 CST 2005

Jon-

Thanks for the workaround! I'll have to try that out, though I think the
fact that end users have to come up with a workaround like this reinforces
that how it currently functions is NOT how customers want it to work.

"Jon Poploskie" wrote:

> I think I have a DNS-based workaround for this. Our Outlook clients point
> to the "actual" CRM server name (the "A" dns record). I set up a "CRM"
> CNAME record in DNS, so that an internal web user can just type CRM in the
> IE bar and it opens up. Well, it seems to turn out that using the alias in
> IE avoids whatever checking CRM does with the Outlook client, and I have
> access to the settings and KB with Outlook open. Not sure if this has any
> unintended side-effects or not, but I haven't noticed any.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Jon
>
> "Joel Corra" <JoelCorra@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:7F135101-4716-462D-BA20-310370A25FB8@microsoft.com...
> > Does anyone else find it rather ridiculous that the options available in
> > the
> > CRM 3.0 web client completely change when Outlook is running? Evidently
> > this
> > is "by design" but was a very poor design choice in my opinion. Users
> > like
> > to have a consistent experience, and when options start disappearing it
> > confuses people.
> >
> > It also makes it very difficult to build a Knowledge Base and set up
> > users,
> > considering most people will probably be copying and pasting text from
> > email
> > messages to build the KB. The way it's set up now, you would have to find
> > the email message you want, copy what you need into Notepad, close
> > Outlook,
> > login to the CRM web client, create a new KB article, paste what you need
> > from Notepad, save the new KB article, load Outlook again, find the next
> > email message you need, copy and paste into Notepad again, close Outlook
> > again, log back into CRM (or do a deep refresh of the page), make a new KB
> > article, paste what you need from Notepad again, save.... It makes an
> > already tedious task even that much worse. Same for users. Unless you
> > personally know everyone being set up, you'll most likely either be
> > setting
> > up users based on an email message you have received, or using a global
> > address book. Again, copy what you need, paste into Notepad, close
> > Outlook,
> > open the user record, paste from Notepad, save, re-open Outlook... Or the
> > alternative would be to print out everything you need beforehand, then
> > type
> > it all in. Also not a good approach, as it would take a lot longer and
> > introduce typographical errors.
> >
> > I really see no benefit to changing the options available in the web
> > client
> > based on whether or not the user has Outlook running. What is the point
> > of
> > limiting features in the web client to only the features available through
> > the Outlook client? If what I wanted to do was available in the Outlook
> > client, I would do it in the Outlook client. The only reason I would be
> > using the web client is because the feature I want to use is not available
> > in
> > the Outlook client. Since this is evidently by design, I want the ability
> > to
> > disable this "feature".
> >
> > ----------------
> > This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> > suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> > Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> > this
> > link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> > click "I Agree" in the message pane.
> >
> > http://www.microsoft.com/Businesssolutions/Community/NewsGroups/dgbrowser/en-us/default.mspx?mid=7f135101-4716-462d-ba20-310370a25fb8&dg=microsoft.public.crm
>
>
>

JonSusiak
Fri Dec 09 04:24:03 CST 2005

As well as the missing Settings tab, we have an issue that customizations
(menu items, buttons etc) in the isv.config.xml are missing if the Oulook
client is open.

Anyone else experiencing this?

JonSusiak
Fri Dec 09 06:21:02 CST 2005

I found a workaround for this problem by setting the ISVIntegration value in
the web.config to "All".

However this does mean that you cannot have different customizations in the
client and browser interface if you want both open at the same time.

"Jon Susiak" wrote:

> As well as the missing Settings tab, we have an issue that customizations
> (menu items, buttons etc) in the isv.config.xml are missing if the Oulook
> client is open.
>
> Anyone else experiencing this?

GreggH
Fri Dec 09 06:33:03 CST 2005

Perfect Jon - you are a star.... Now I can update products and the
knowledgebase with ease without all this closing outlook madness....

Well done.
Cheers
Gregg

"Jon Susiak" wrote:

> I found a workaround for this problem by setting the ISVIntegration value in
> the web.config to "All".
>
> However this does mean that you cannot have different customizations in the
> client and browser interface if you want both open at the same time.
>
> "Jon Susiak" wrote:
>
> > As well as the missing Settings tab, we have an issue that customizations
> > (menu items, buttons etc) in the isv.config.xml are missing if the Oulook
> > client is open.
> >
> > Anyone else experiencing this?

JoelCorra
Fri Dec 09 08:48:03 CST 2005

Jon-

I tried that and it doesn't seem to make any difference on our server. But
it sounds like you've made customizations to the isv.config files, so maybe
that's the difference. I finally got a little more detail from Microsoft:

"This is a known issue thatâ??s a result of the sitemap getting cached for
Outlook first. The work around here is that if you need to manage settings,
you have to exit outlook and refresh the web app (F5) and the buttons
re-appear. Please let us know if you have any additional questions and have a
great day."

"Jon Susiak" wrote:

> I found a workaround for this problem by setting the ISVIntegration value in
> the web.config to "All".
>
> However this does mean that you cannot have different customizations in the
> client and browser interface if you want both open at the same time.
>
> "Jon Susiak" wrote:
>
> > As well as the missing Settings tab, we have an issue that customizations
> > (menu items, buttons etc) in the isv.config.xml are missing if the Oulook
> > client is open.
> >
> > Anyone else experiencing this?

JonSusiak
Fri Dec 09 09:57:02 CST 2005

Hi Joel,

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my previous post.
The workaround works to restore the customizations, but it doesn't restore
the Settings tab.

Jon

"Joel Corra" wrote:

> Jon-
>
> I tried that and it doesn't seem to make any difference on our server. But
> it sounds like you've made customizations to the isv.config files, so maybe
> that's the difference. I finally got a little more detail from Microsoft:
>
> "This is a known issue thatâ??s a result of the sitemap getting cached for
> Outlook first. The work around here is that if you need to manage settings,
> you have to exit outlook and refresh the web app (F5) and the buttons
> re-appear. Please let us know if you have any additional questions and have a
> great day."

GreggH
Sat Dec 10 09:32:02 CST 2005

Bizaar Jon, because it worked for me. I have the settings tab now even with
outlook open??

I'm not complaining.... :o)

"Jon Susiak" wrote:

> Hi Joel,
>
> Sorry, I wasn't clear in my previous post.
> The workaround works to restore the customizations, but it doesn't restore
> the Settings tab.
>
> Jon
>
> "Joel Corra" wrote:
>
> > Jon-
> >
> > I tried that and it doesn't seem to make any difference on our server. But
> > it sounds like you've made customizations to the isv.config files, so maybe
> > that's the difference. I finally got a little more detail from Microsoft:
> >
> > "This is a known issue thatâ??s a result of the sitemap getting cached for
> > Outlook first. The work around here is that if you need to manage settings,
> > you have to exit outlook and refresh the web app (F5) and the buttons
> > re-appear. Please let us know if you have any additional questions and have a
> > great day."
>

Matt
Wed Dec 14 15:59:42 CST 2005

That's because you opened the web client "first" and then Outlook. If you
were to issue a F5 on the web client, it would most likely disappear.

--

Matt Parks
MVP - Microsoft CRM


"GreggH" <GreggH@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2E48BFF3-3168-4C8A-8666-C026F2C219D0@microsoft.com...
Bizaar Jon, because it worked for me. I have the settings tab now even with
outlook open??

I'm not complaining.... :o)

"Jon Susiak" wrote:

> Hi Joel,
>
> Sorry, I wasn't clear in my previous post.
> The workaround works to restore the customizations, but it doesn't restore
> the Settings tab.
>
> Jon
>
> "Joel Corra" wrote:
>
> > Jon-
> >
> > I tried that and it doesn't seem to make any difference on our server.
But
> > it sounds like you've made customizations to the isv.config files, so
maybe
> > that's the difference. I finally got a little more detail from
Microsoft:
> >
> > "This is a known issue that's a result of the sitemap getting cached for
> > Outlook first. The work around here is that if you need to manage
settings,
> > you have to exit outlook and refresh the web app (F5) and the buttons
> > re-appear. Please let us know if you have any additional questions and
have a
> > great day."
>

Michael
Mon Jan 09 09:26:02 CST 2006

I have the problem, that besides the settings section missing, the "remove
email from queue" button is also disappearing from time to time.

I have some level of suspicion that its relation to the machines only where
Microsoft C5 is installed.


"Joel Corra" wrote:

> Does anyone else find it rather ridiculous that the options available in the
> CRM 3.0 web client completely change when Outlook is running? Evidently this
> is "by design" but was a very poor design choice in my opinion. Users like
> to have a consistent experience, and when options start disappearing it
> confuses people.
>
> It also makes it very difficult to build a Knowledge Base and set up users,
> considering most people will probably be copying and pasting text from email
> messages to build the KB. The way it's set up now, you would have to find
> the email message you want, copy what you need into Notepad, close Outlook,
> login to the CRM web client, create a new KB article, paste what you need
> from Notepad, save the new KB article, load Outlook again, find the next
> email message you need, copy and paste into Notepad again, close Outlook
> again, log back into CRM (or do a deep refresh of the page), make a new KB
> article, paste what you need from Notepad again, save.... It makes an
> already tedious task even that much worse. Same for users. Unless you
> personally know everyone being set up, you'll most likely either be setting
> up users based on an email message you have received, or using a global
> address book. Again, copy what you need, paste into Notepad, close Outlook,
> open the user record, paste from Notepad, save, re-open Outlook... Or the
> alternative would be to print out everything you need beforehand, then type
> it all in. Also not a good approach, as it would take a lot longer and
> introduce typographical errors.
>
> I really see no benefit to changing the options available in the web client
> based on whether or not the user has Outlook running. What is the point of
> limiting features in the web client to only the features available through
> the Outlook client? If what I wanted to do was available in the Outlook
> client, I would do it in the Outlook client. The only reason I would be
> using the web client is because the feature I want to use is not available in
> the Outlook client. Since this is evidently by design, I want the ability to
> disable this "feature".
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/Businesssolutions/Community/NewsGroups/dgbrowser/en-us/default.mspx?mid=7f135101-4716-462d-ba20-310370a25fb8&dg=microsoft.public.crm

MikePrice
Thu Mar 16 15:07:59 CST 2006

Does anyone know if there is a fix for this. I call it a fix even though I
know it was "intended" because in my view the things is broken. Any news?

"Joel Corra" wrote:

> Does anyone else find it rather ridiculous that the options available in the
> CRM 3.0 web client completely change when Outlook is running? Evidently this
> is "by design" but was a very poor design choice in my opinion. Users like
> to have a consistent experience, and when options start disappearing it
> confuses people.
>
> It also makes it very difficult to build a Knowledge Base and set up users,
> considering most people will probably be copying and pasting text from email
> messages to build the KB. The way it's set up now, you would have to find
> the email message you want, copy what you need into Notepad, close Outlook,
> login to the CRM web client, create a new KB article, paste what you need
> from Notepad, save the new KB article, load Outlook again, find the next
> email message you need, copy and paste into Notepad again, close Outlook
> again, log back into CRM (or do a deep refresh of the page), make a new KB
> article, paste what you need from Notepad again, save.... It makes an
> already tedious task even that much worse. Same for users. Unless you
> personally know everyone being set up, you'll most likely either be setting
> up users based on an email message you have received, or using a global
> address book. Again, copy what you need, paste into Notepad, close Outlook,
> open the user record, paste from Notepad, save, re-open Outlook... Or the
> alternative would be to print out everything you need beforehand, then type
> it all in. Also not a good approach, as it would take a lot longer and
> introduce typographical errors.
>
> I really see no benefit to changing the options available in the web client
> based on whether or not the user has Outlook running. What is the point of
> limiting features in the web client to only the features available through
> the Outlook client? If what I wanted to do was available in the Outlook
> client, I would do it in the Outlook client. The only reason I would be
> using the web client is because the feature I want to use is not available in
> the Outlook client. Since this is evidently by design, I want the ability to
> disable this "feature".
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/Businesssolutions/Community/NewsGroups/dgbrowser/en-us/default.mspx?mid=7f135101-4716-462d-ba20-310370a25fb8&dg=microsoft.public.crm

MikePrice
Thu Mar 16 16:31:17 CST 2006

Mike,
Thanks for your reply. I did the same thing and it seems to be a decent
work around. Although I would much rather have the ability to due EVERYTHING
I can do from the web UI in Outlook.




"Michael Seifert" wrote:

> I think I have found sort of a workaround that is at least better than
> closing Outlook.
>
> If I open the CRM in the browser by simply typing "http://crm", then I have
> the problem. But if I use the FQDN for the server http://crm.hq.acme.net then
> the buttons re-appear even when Outlook is open.
>
> Made life a little simpler for me, though you can hardly call it a solution.

MichaelSeifert
Thu Mar 16 17:27:29 CST 2006

I think I have found sort of a workaround that is at least better than
closing Outlook.

If I open the CRM in the browser by simply typing "http://crm", then I have
the problem. But if I use the FQDN for the server http://crm.hq.acme.net then
the buttons re-appear even when Outlook is open.

Made life a little simpler for me, though you can hardly call it a solution.

Matt
Thu Mar 16 23:41:19 CST 2006

There is a semi-good reason why they don't provide all the forms by default
in the outlook client. When you are in offline mode, you can't change these
settings since they need to be changed on the server. Of course, since the
offline client has differnt pages, it wouldn't be that difficult to display
a msg saying that the feature isn't available whil offline.

--

Matt Parks
MVP - Microsoft CRM


"Mike Price" <MikePrice@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:D8C6DDBB-1A7D-488F-AD47-C5B5C4B71394@microsoft.com...
Mike,
Thanks for your reply. I did the same thing and it seems to be a decent
work around. Although I would much rather have the ability to due EVERYTHING
I can do from the web UI in Outlook.




"Michael Seifert" wrote:

> I think I have found sort of a workaround that is at least better than
> closing Outlook.
>
> If I open the CRM in the browser by simply typing "http://crm", then I
> have
> the problem. But if I use the FQDN for the server http://crm.hq.acme.net
> then
> the buttons re-appear even when Outlook is open.
>
> Made life a little simpler for me, though you can hardly call it a
> solution.

Paul
Tue May 23 05:52:01 CDT 2006

A customer of mine wanted to only use Outlook to view and add KB Articles. So
what I did was add the following button to Outlook in the isv.config with the
following script:

<Button Title="Knowledge Base" ToolTip="Knowledge Base Articles"
Icon="/_imgs/ico_18_126.gif"
JavaScript="window.open('http://193.156.135.201/cs/home_managekb.aspx','mm1','width=800,height=600,resizable=1');"
Client="Outlook" AvailableOffline="false" />

Note that I had to use the IP-address because of the problem with IE not
showing all functionality when Outlook is open

"Matt Parks" wrote:

> There is a semi-good reason why they don't provide all the forms by default
> in the outlook client. When you are in offline mode, you can't change these
> settings since they need to be changed on the server. Of course, since the
> offline client has differnt pages, it wouldn't be that difficult to display
> a msg saying that the feature isn't available whil offline.
>
> --
>
> Matt Parks
> MVP - Microsoft CRM
>
>
> "Mike Price" <MikePrice@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:D8C6DDBB-1A7D-488F-AD47-C5B5C4B71394@microsoft.com...
> Mike,
> Thanks for your reply. I did the same thing and it seems to be a decent
> work around. Although I would much rather have the ability to due EVERYTHING
> I can do from the web UI in Outlook.
>
>
>
>
> "Michael Seifert" wrote:
>
> > I think I have found sort of a workaround that is at least better than
> > closing Outlook.
> >
> > If I open the CRM in the browser by simply typing "http://crm", then I
> > have
> > the problem. But if I use the FQDN for the server http://crm.hq.acme.net
> > then
> > the buttons re-appear even when Outlook is open.
> >
> > Made life a little simpler for me, though you can hardly call it a
> > solution.
>
>
>

Steve
Tue May 23 09:38:24 CDT 2006

"Paul" <Paul@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0139631D-3BF1-498D-BF75-042ADC141FAE@microsoft.com...
> Note that I had to use the IP-address because of the problem with IE not
> showing all functionality when Outlook is open

That's because the cookie only works for the one domain...a related
point is that you can open CRM in a browser using a different URL
(http://server:5555 vs. http://crm for example) and Settings will be
visible.

- Steve Yates
- ITS, Inc.
- What if eternity doesn't want me back?

~ Taglines by Taglinator - www.srtware.com ~

jamesspelt
Tue May 22 01:20:01 CDT 2007

Hi Paul

Can you please explain where you put this text? I've tried the same
unsuccessfully.

Jaems

"Paul" wrote:

> A customer of mine wanted to only use Outlook to view and add KB Articles. So
> what I did was add the following button to Outlook in the isv.config with the
> following script:
>
> <Button Title="Knowledge Base" ToolTip="Knowledge Base Articles"
> Icon="/_imgs/ico_18_126.gif"
> JavaScript="window.open('http://193.156.135.201/cs/home_managekb.aspx','mm1','width=800,height=600,resizable=1');"
> Client="Outlook" AvailableOffline="false" />
>
> Note that I had to use the IP-address because of the problem with IE not
> showing all functionality when Outlook is open
>
> "Matt Parks" wrote:
>
> > There is a semi-good reason why they don't provide all the forms by default
> > in the outlook client. When you are in offline mode, you can't change these
> > settings since they need to be changed on the server. Of course, since the
> > offline client has differnt pages, it wouldn't be that difficult to display
> > a msg saying that the feature isn't available whil offline.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Matt Parks
> > MVP - Microsoft CRM
> >
> >
> > "Mike Price" <MikePrice@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:D8C6DDBB-1A7D-488F-AD47-C5B5C4B71394@microsoft.com...
> > Mike,
> > Thanks for your reply. I did the same thing and it seems to be a decent
> > work around. Although I would much rather have the ability to due EVERYTHING
> > I can do from the web UI in Outlook.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Michael Seifert" wrote:
> >
> > > I think I have found sort of a workaround that is at least better than
> > > closing Outlook.
> > >
> > > If I open the CRM in the browser by simply typing "http://crm", then I
> > > have
> > > the problem. But if I use the FQDN for the server http://crm.hq.acme.net
> > > then
> > > the buttons re-appear even when Outlook is open.
> > >
> > > Made life a little simpler for me, though you can hardly call it a
> > > solution.
> >
> >
> >