ADO.NET EntityFramework and Large SQL Databases

Hello.

This is my scenario. I am building a WinForm app. I have a 300+ tables
databases.
My problem comes everytime i have to build my app. it takes forever and i
guess the reason is that everytime that i compile, the system is compiling
the 300+ entities it just created. i found a bizarre solution to my problem
by having another project, a class library project, only for the model. Then
i unchecked the Build in the Solution properties so it doesn't get built all
the time. That's fine, but for some reason, i cant find the provider class
and also i am having other issues. i guess my question is... Is there a
DESCENT way to have the Entity model co-existing in peace in my Winform
project and do not wait up to 2 minutes everytime i need to build my app
(which happens about 300 times a day in test phase)

Any hint on this would be higly appreciated

Miha
Fri Jun 27 10:37:46 CDT 2008

Why don't you put your entity framework code in separated assembly - class
library?

--
Miha Markic [MVP C#, INETA Country Leader for Slovenia]
RightHand .NET consulting & development www.rthand.com
Blog: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/

"PPCUBAN" <PPCUBAN@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B03CF0B9-AD4D-4A05-B200-8221CB388FB2@microsoft.com...
> Hello.
>
> This is my scenario. I am building a WinForm app. I have a 300+ tables
> databases.
> My problem comes everytime i have to build my app. it takes forever and i
> guess the reason is that everytime that i compile, the system is compiling
> the 300+ entities it just created. i found a bizarre solution to my
> problem
> by having another project, a class library project, only for the model.
> Then
> i unchecked the Build in the Solution properties so it doesn't get built
> all
> the time. That's fine, but for some reason, i cant find the provider class
> and also i am having other issues. i guess my question is... Is there a
> DESCENT way to have the Entity model co-existing in peace in my Winform
> project and do not wait up to 2 minutes everytime i need to build my app
> (which happens about 300 times a day in test phase)
>
> Any hint on this would be higly appreciated

PPCUBAN
Fri Jun 27 12:03:00 CDT 2008

I used to have that before when i was using Nettiers (www.nettiers.com). They
don't exist anymore (i think because of Entity Framework). Basically they
were doing the same thing. Now, i had the same problem with nettiers. Then i
create a whole completly solution apart and made it my DLL providers for
those entities,data, services... and all togheter, Then, i would create
another solution for my app and reference to my DLLs. I wanted somehow to get
that "technique" overriden by the new Entity Framework but my dreams vanished.

I'll keep you posted about ths.
"Miha Markic" wrote:

> Why don't you put your entity framework code in separated assembly - class
> library?
>
> --
> Miha Markic [MVP C#, INETA Country Leader for Slovenia]
> RightHand .NET consulting & development www.rthand.com
> Blog: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/
>
> "PPCUBAN" <PPCUBAN@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:B03CF0B9-AD4D-4A05-B200-8221CB388FB2@microsoft.com...
> > Hello.
> >
> > This is my scenario. I am building a WinForm app. I have a 300+ tables
> > databases.
> > My problem comes everytime i have to build my app. it takes forever and i
> > guess the reason is that everytime that i compile, the system is compiling
> > the 300+ entities it just created. i found a bizarre solution to my
> > problem
> > by having another project, a class library project, only for the model.
> > Then
> > i unchecked the Build in the Solution properties so it doesn't get built
> > all
> > the time. That's fine, but for some reason, i cant find the provider class
> > and also i am having other issues. i guess my question is... Is there a
> > DESCENT way to have the Entity model co-existing in peace in my Winform
> > project and do not wait up to 2 minutes everytime i need to build my app
> > (which happens about 300 times a day in test phase)
> >
> > Any hint on this would be higly appreciated
>
>

Miha
Fri Jun 27 12:49:30 CDT 2008


"PPCUBAN" <PPCUBAN@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:439588A0-A021-438C-8DBB-FD1C47B77C69@microsoft.com...
>I used to have that before when i was using Nettiers (www.nettiers.com).
>They
> don't exist anymore (i think because of Entity Framework).

Why do you think that nettiers doesn't exist anymore?

Basically they
> were doing the same thing. Now, i had the same problem with nettiers. Then
> i
> create a whole completly solution apart and made it my DLL providers for
> those entities,data, services... and all togheter, Then, i would create
> another solution for my app and reference to my DLLs. I wanted somehow to
> get
> that "technique" overriden by the new Entity Framework but my dreams
> vanished.

Having data access layer in a separate assembly is a good practice.

--
Miha Markic [MVP C#, INETA Country Leader for Slovenia]
RightHand .NET consulting & development www.rthand.com
Blog: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/

>
> I'll keep you posted about ths.
> "Miha Markic" wrote:
>
>> Why don't you put your entity framework code in separated assembly -
>> class
>> library?
>>
>> --
>> Miha Markic [MVP C#, INETA Country Leader for Slovenia]
>> RightHand .NET consulting & development www.rthand.com
>> Blog: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/
>>
>> "PPCUBAN" <PPCUBAN@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:B03CF0B9-AD4D-4A05-B200-8221CB388FB2@microsoft.com...
>> > Hello.
>> >
>> > This is my scenario. I am building a WinForm app. I have a 300+ tables
>> > databases.
>> > My problem comes everytime i have to build my app. it takes forever and
>> > i
>> > guess the reason is that everytime that i compile, the system is
>> > compiling
>> > the 300+ entities it just created. i found a bizarre solution to my
>> > problem
>> > by having another project, a class library project, only for the model.
>> > Then
>> > i unchecked the Build in the Solution properties so it doesn't get
>> > built
>> > all
>> > the time. That's fine, but for some reason, i cant find the provider
>> > class
>> > and also i am having other issues. i guess my question is... Is there a
>> > DESCENT way to have the Entity model co-existing in peace in my Winform
>> > project and do not wait up to 2 minutes everytime i need to build my
>> > app
>> > (which happens about 300 times a day in test phase)
>> >
>> > Any hint on this would be higly appreciated
>>
>>

Frans
Sat Jun 28 04:27:22 CDT 2008

PPCUBAN wrote:
> Hello.
>
> This is my scenario. I am building a WinForm app. I have a 300+ tables
> databases.
> My problem comes everytime i have to build my app. it takes forever and i
> guess the reason is that everytime that i compile, the system is compiling
> the 300+ entities it just created. i found a bizarre solution to my problem
> by having another project, a class library project, only for the model. Then
> i unchecked the Build in the Solution properties so it doesn't get built all
> the time. That's fine, but for some reason, i cant find the provider class
> and also i am having other issues. i guess my question is... Is there a
> DESCENT way to have the Entity model co-existing in peace in my Winform
> project and do not wait up to 2 minutes everytime i need to build my app
> (which happens about 300 times a day in test phase)
>
> Any hint on this would be higly appreciated

How are you even managing those 300 entities in the designer of EF! :)

All code of the 300 entities is in 1 file, the .designer.cs file, which
can grow very long due to the 300+ entities. Every time you compile your
winforms app, that file is compiled too. Having it in a separate project
is better, because it then doesnt' get compiled every time, only when a
file changes (so if you change a winform, it doesn't get compiled again).

I'm the lead developer of LLBLGen Pro, which is a widely used O/R
mapper for .NET with similar (and sometimes better) features as the EF,
and a designer which can handle way more than 300+ entities :). It sets
up the project as a separate class library so it gets compiled only when
you regenerate it. See my signature for details.

FB

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lead developer of LLBLGen Pro, the productive O/R mapper for .NET
LLBLGen Pro website: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cowboy
Sat Jun 28 08:27:54 CDT 2008

Net Tiers still exists, AFAIK. I stopped using .NET Tiers because of the
data transport, but that shys away from your question.

I agree with both Mika and Frans on the separate assembly side, but I have a
slightly different explanation. For me, the UI is a user interface. It
should contain no code for data and that includes datasets, entities, etc.
There are three reasons for this:

1. Improved testability of code - UI code is hard to test, so move as much
logic away from the UI
2. Reusability of code
3. Ability to switch out UIs without a huge amount of work

Unfortunately, MS has done a piss poor job of expressing separation of
concerns in their sample apps, so few people do it well.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

Subscribe to my blog
http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com/lists/feed.rss

or just read it:
http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com/

*************************************************
| Think outside the box!
|
*************************************************
"PPCUBAN" <PPCUBAN@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:439588A0-A021-438C-8DBB-FD1C47B77C69@microsoft.com...
>I used to have that before when i was using Nettiers (www.nettiers.com).
>They
> don't exist anymore (i think because of Entity Framework). Basically they
> were doing the same thing. Now, i had the same problem with nettiers. Then
> i
> create a whole completly solution apart and made it my DLL providers for
> those entities,data, services... and all togheter, Then, i would create
> another solution for my app and reference to my DLLs. I wanted somehow to
> get
> that "technique" overriden by the new Entity Framework but my dreams
> vanished.
>
> I'll keep you posted about ths.
> "Miha Markic" wrote:
>
>> Why don't you put your entity framework code in separated assembly -
>> class
>> library?
>>
>> --
>> Miha Markic [MVP C#, INETA Country Leader for Slovenia]
>> RightHand .NET consulting & development www.rthand.com
>> Blog: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/
>>
>> "PPCUBAN" <PPCUBAN@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:B03CF0B9-AD4D-4A05-B200-8221CB388FB2@microsoft.com...
>> > Hello.
>> >
>> > This is my scenario. I am building a WinForm app. I have a 300+ tables
>> > databases.
>> > My problem comes everytime i have to build my app. it takes forever and
>> > i
>> > guess the reason is that everytime that i compile, the system is
>> > compiling
>> > the 300+ entities it just created. i found a bizarre solution to my
>> > problem
>> > by having another project, a class library project, only for the model.
>> > Then
>> > i unchecked the Build in the Solution properties so it doesn't get
>> > built
>> > all
>> > the time. That's fine, but for some reason, i cant find the provider
>> > class
>> > and also i am having other issues. i guess my question is... Is there a
>> > DESCENT way to have the Entity model co-existing in peace in my Winform
>> > project and do not wait up to 2 minutes everytime i need to build my
>> > app
>> > (which happens about 300 times a day in test phase)
>> >
>> > Any hint on this would be higly appreciated
>>
>>

Cor
Sun Jun 29 01:04:08 CDT 2008

Gregory-

snip
> Unfortunately, MS has done a piss poor job of expressing separation of
> concerns in their sample apps, so few people do it well.
>
snip

Do you have an idea how they could have done it better.

Seperate websites maybe in different layers

MSDN-DataAcces\Microsoft.Com
MSDN-UI\Microsoft.Com

For me there is no other option then as they do, however maybe you have a
brilliant idea.

(Just what I thought reading your message)

-Cor